Terrence Ross

[PennytoShaq]

Oladipo is not a mediocre player. And can we please stop acting like paying Oladipo would have been a problem. Not saying he's worth a max extension, but he's worth every penny Evan is worth on the market. We have $32 million locked into two backups right now (Biz and Jeff), so please stop talking salary cap when referencing Vic. Ultimately Vic was the one we had to deal to OKC to get Ibaka. He was the player OKC wanted in return. We don't have to bash Vic to uplift Ross.

Jeff Green expires this year. Oladipo would be for 4 years. Drastically different situation.

Different situation sure, but the money is there. We overpaid three or four players simply because we had the money to spend. When Jeff expires we'll have $15 million more to spend. The salary cap was the least of our issues at the time...In theory we could have signed Vic/Dedmon (21 mil + 3 mil) for less than we will be paying Ross/Biz per year (10mil + 17 mil). After that we STILL would have had an excess of money left over to give Jeff Green a 1 yr/15 million contact and pay Jodie Meeks 6 million a year to be hurt all season. So again if we signed Vic/Dedmon, we still would have had a good $24 million dollars for future signings (Not to mention the 7 mil per year we signed DJ to).

Yeah but Victor thinks he is a star and would not accept a bench role. The Magic needed a starting SG who was a more reliable shooter and they picked Fournier. No one had an issue with us signing Evan this summer. And no one had an issue with Dedmon being let go. So this is revisionist history.

[pepe1991]

Jeff Green expires this year. Oladipo would be for 4 years. Drastically different situation.

Different situation sure, but the money is there. We overpaid three or four players simply because we had the money to spend. When Jeff expires we'll have $15 million more to spend. The salary cap was the least of our issues at the time...In theory we could have signed Vic/Dedmon (21 mil + 3 mil) for less than we will be paying Ross/Biz per year (10mil + 17 mil). After that we STILL would have had an excess of money left over to give Jeff Green a 1 yr/15 million contact and pay Jodie Meeks 6 million a year to be hurt all season. So again if we signed Vic/Dedmon, we still would have had a good $24 million dollars for future signings (Not to mention the 7 mil per year we signed DJ to).

Yeah but Victor thinks he is a star and would not accept a bench role. The Magic needed a starting SG who was a more reliable shooter and they picked Fournier. No one had an issue with us signing Evan this summer. And no one had an issue with Dedmon being let go. So this is revisionist history.

Biyombo+Green+DJ+ Meeks = $46M
Oladipo + Dedmon = $24M

So , once they (Green, Meeks ) are off the books, Magic will still pay same money for Biyombo and DJ as they would pay for Dipo and Dedmon.

Also Oladipo and Evan played pretty damn well together. In that period Magic were actually competitive , Oladipo with dribble penetration and kickouts was huge for Evan who is great catch and shoot guy. So, by default, there was no need to rush moving one of them. Magic could resign both ( him and Dedmon) and just wait until other teams get desperate for guards. And we saw it this year, Noel got traded for protected first rounder ?

By every single NBA expert who works for any media that covers basketball that Ibaka for Oladipo+ pick and Ilyasova trade was armed robbery by Presti.

Sports ilustrated made great review of a trade that is so great read

Orlando Magic Grade: C-

Magic acquire: Serge Ibaka

The good news: Ibaka is now Orlando’s best player. The bad news: Ibaka is now Orlando’s best player. While the perpetually rebuilding Magic have needed to significantly upgrade their talent for years, Ibaka is ideally suited to life as a complementary option on a winning team, rather than as a centerpiece on an identity-less, mishmashed roster.

This deal would have made more sense if Ibaka was under contract at a below-market rate for multiple years, or if he had just put up a career year, or if he had shown a James Harden-like need for a larger role, or if he had a pristine health record. Instead, the Magic have cashed in a key building block in Oladipo and their 2016 lottery pick for a quality defensive player who will attract plenty of offers next summer.

[JF5]

Ross is a mediocre player on a team of mediocre players. He adds nothing. All the gloss about him being better than Oladipo by those who tried to justify the Dipo-Ibaka-Ross fiasco was just that -- gloss.

Hennigan traded Oladipo and a lottery pick for Terrence Ross and a pick in the 20's, unless you want to assign value to 1/2 year of Ibaka on a horrible team that he didn't improve.

Oladipo is no super-star, but I think he does more to win games than Ross. He contributes in more ways. But more to the point, when Hennigan traded Dipo for Ibaka, it was supposed to be a "fit" move, because we had a log-jam at the 2-3 positions. By trading Ibaka for another SG less than a year later, Hennigan admitted he screwed up. Not only did he not get value on any of these deals, but he conceded that he misjudged the structure and fit of his roster. Going big when the rest of the league is going small was stupid. Trading two assets -- Dipo and Sabonis -- to go big when the rest of the league is going small was monumentally stupid.

Yeah going big did not work, but I don't mind seeing the Magic try. You have to remember when we went 4 out 1 in years back, many people said that would fail because we were too small.

Additionally Oladipo is also a mediocre player. We traded him because he wanted a max extension to stay here in Orlando. It's not worth it. On a team that desperatley needs 3 point shooting, I believe Ross is a better fit. Angry trolls will mention that he is only shooting 27% from 3 with us still miss the point - Based on all data, Ross will get his mojo back and start knocking them down at a higher clip, and even if he is not the long term solution for us as a starter we are not hampered by a guy who expects to start and makes almost twice a much.

You do know Vic is averaging 45% from the field and 37% from the arc right now. Averaging 16.4 Points, 4.3 Rebounds, and 2.5 Assist per.

That's not "mediocre" by any means...

[___Rand___]

Ross was shooting very well to start the year and us Raptor fans thought he might be turning a corner. Sadly this was not the case and he reverted back to his normal self. I will admit though the trade reminded me a bit of the Andrea Bargnani trade to the Knicks. Ross tended to play really well against the Magic, as Bargnani did against the Knicks, thus maybe the Magic GM overvalued him. You may think that sounds stupid but the same thing happened when Charlie Villanueva dropped 50 on the Bucks and then they traded for him. I do not want to kick you when you are down but Ujiri tends to go after the weaker GMs in the league since being with the Raptors. (Knicks, Kings, Magic, Suns) On the bright side you might get a legit Star this summer in the draft! Stay positive but Ross will most likely disappoint. He should be better then he is but is is just soft and is a bit of a space cadet. Anyway good luck guys!

God you're comparing Ross with Barfnani? Barf was a well known festering feces in the locker room by the time we traded him. Knicks knew what they were getting, and wanted him anyways because they thought they could make him the Bargnani of the earlier years when he was looking like the second coming of Dirk.

Ross wants to do well. He doesn't show great ambition but he'll do what's asked. Ross is inconsistent being overshadowed behind a go to guy. He needs motor, and under an old fashioned coach the kid wasn't responding. Vogel needs to get into Ross's head. That's what coaching is. Find what makes him tick and flip it on. kick it on. whatever. He isn't a maggot that Barfnani was.

[pepe1991]

Ross was shooting very well to start the year and us Raptor fans thought he might be turning a corner. Sadly this was not the case and he reverted back to his normal self. I will admit though the trade reminded me a bit of the Andrea Bargnani trade to the Knicks. Ross tended to play really well against the Magic, as Bargnani did against the Knicks, thus maybe the Magic GM overvalued him. You may think that sounds stupid but the same thing happened when Charlie Villanueva dropped 50 on the Bucks and then they traded for him. I do not want to kick you when you are down but Ujiri tends to go after the weaker GMs in the league since being with the Raptors. (Knicks, Kings, Magic, Suns) On the bright side you might get a legit Star this summer in the draft! Stay positive but Ross will most likely disappoint. He should be better then he is but is is just soft and is a bit of a space cadet. Anyway good luck guys!

God you're comparing Ross with Barfnani? Barf was a well known festering feces in the locker room by the time we traded him. Knicks knew what they were getting, and wanted him anyways because they thought they could make him the Bargnani of the earlier years when he was looking like the second coming of Dirk.

Ross wants to do well. He doesn't show great ambition but he'll do what's asked. Ross is inconsistent being overshadowed behind a go to guy. He needs motor, and under an old fashioned coach the kid wasn't responding. Vogel needs to get into Ross's head. That's what coaching is. Find what makes him tick and flip it on. kick it on. whatever. He isn't a maggot that Barfnani was.

"kid" is 26 years old not some 19 years old guy full of potential. Just finishing his 5th season. Klye Lowry that people love to bring up as late bloomer ,at age of 24 was already proven starter...

[JAY DASH]

Jeff Green expires this year. Oladipo would be for 4 years. Drastically different situation.

Different situation sure, but the money is there. We overpaid three or four players simply because we had the money to spend. When Jeff expires we'll have $15 million more to spend. The salary cap was the least of our issues at the time...In theory we could have signed Vic/Dedmon (21 mil + 3 mil) for less than we will be paying Ross/Biz per year (10mil + 17 mil). After that we STILL would have had an excess of money left over to give Jeff Green a 1 yr/15 million contact and pay Jodie Meeks 6 million a year to be hurt all season. So again if we signed Vic/Dedmon, we still would have had a good $24 million dollars for future signings (Not to mention the 7 mil per year we signed DJ to).

Yeah but Victor thinks he is a star and would not accept a bench role. The Magic needed a starting SG who was a more reliable shooter and they picked Fournier. No one had an issue with us signing Evan this summer. And no one had an issue with Dedmon being let go. So this is revisionist history.

No it's not revisionist history lol. There were quite a few of us that didn't understand us not trying to re-sign Dedmon and instead signing Biz for 17 million. Sure there was a large contingent that liked the deal but a few of us (the same ones that said we wouldn't win 35 games) thought it was a horrible overpay for an undersized Center with a limited skillset. I'd never pay 17 million for Biz when you can get a Dedmon or even a Willie Reed for pennies on the dollar.

As far as Vic, he was one of the best players here so I would understand him feeling like he shouldn't be a 6th man on a bad team. If he was playing on a contender maybe...he's not a backup for the Magic.

[PennytoShaq]

Ross is a mediocre player on a team of mediocre players. He adds nothing. All the gloss about him being better than Oladipo by those who tried to justify the Dipo-Ibaka-Ross fiasco was just that -- gloss.

Hennigan traded Oladipo and a lottery pick for Terrence Ross and a pick in the 20's, unless you want to assign value to 1/2 year of Ibaka on a horrible team that he didn't improve.

Oladipo is no super-star, but I think he does more to win games than Ross. He contributes in more ways. But more to the point, when Hennigan traded Dipo for Ibaka, it was supposed to be a "fit" move, because we had a log-jam at the 2-3 positions. By trading Ibaka for another SG less than a year later, Hennigan admitted he screwed up. Not only did he not get value on any of these deals, but he conceded that he misjudged the structure and fit of his roster. Going big when the rest of the league is going small was stupid. Trading two assets -- Dipo and Sabonis -- to go big when the rest of the league is going small was monumentally stupid.

Yeah going big did not work, but I don't mind seeing the Magic try. You have to remember when we went 4 out 1 in years back, many people said that would fail because we were too small.

Additionally Oladipo is also a mediocre player. We traded him because he wanted a max extension to stay here in Orlando. It's not worth it. On a team that desperatley needs 3 point shooting, I believe Ross is a better fit. Angry trolls will mention that he is only shooting 27% from 3 with us still miss the point - Based on all data, Ross will get his mojo back and start knocking them down at a higher clip, and even if he is not the long term solution for us as a starter we are not hampered by a guy who expects to start and makes almost twice a much.

You do know Vic is averaging 45% from the field and 37% from the arc right now. Averaging 16.4 Points, 4.3 Rebounds, and 2.5 Assist per.

That's not "mediocre" by any means...

In an off shooting year Fournier is averaging 44% from the field and 35% from 3 with 16.9 PPG and 3 assists. Yet everyone says he is awful and should be traded. Yet somehow to you if those numbers are applied to Oladipo, he is not mediocre?

[Mc-o]

Ross is a mediocre player on a team of mediocre players. He adds nothing. All the gloss about him being better than Oladipo by those who tried to justify the Dipo-Ibaka-Ross fiasco was just that -- gloss.

Hennigan traded Oladipo and a lottery pick for Terrence Ross and a pick in the 20's, unless you want to assign value to 1/2 year of Ibaka on a horrible team that he didn't improve.

Oladipo is no super-star, but I think he does more to win games than Ross. He contributes in more ways. But more to the point, when Hennigan traded Dipo for Ibaka, it was supposed to be a "fit" move, because we had a log-jam at the 2-3 positions. By trading Ibaka for another SG less than a year later, Hennigan admitted he screwed up. Not only did he not get value on any of these deals, but he conceded that he misjudged the structure and fit of his roster. Going big when the rest of the league is going small was stupid. Trading two assets -- Dipo and Sabonis -- to go big when the rest of the league is going small was monumentally stupid.

Yeah going big did not work, but I don't mind seeing the Magic try. You have to remember when we went 4 out 1 in years back, many people said that would fail because we were too small.

Additionally Oladipo is also a mediocre player. We traded him because he wanted a max extension to stay here in Orlando. It's not worth it. On a team that desperatley needs 3 point shooting, I believe Ross is a better fit. Angry trolls will mention that he is only shooting 27% from 3 with us still miss the point - Based on all data, Ross will get his mojo back and start knocking them down at a higher clip, and even if he is not the long term solution for us as a starter we are not hampered by a guy who expects to start and makes almost twice a much.

You do know Vic is averaging 45% from the field and 37% from the arc right now. Averaging 16.4 Points, 4.3 Rebounds, and 2.5 Assist per.

That's not "mediocre" by any means...

unfortunately many on this board try to justify the Dipo trade by acting like he is a scrub and that he is way overpaid" but at the same time are ok with having BIZ at 17 million a year playing 20 minutes a game

[PennytoShaq]

Yeah going big did not work, but I don't mind seeing the Magic try. You have to remember when we went 4 out 1 in years back, many people said that would fail because we were too small.

Additionally Oladipo is also a mediocre player. We traded him because he wanted a max extension to stay here in Orlando. It's not worth it. On a team that desperatley needs 3 point shooting, I believe Ross is a better fit. Angry trolls will mention that he is only shooting 27% from 3 with us still miss the point - Based on all data, Ross will get his mojo back and start knocking them down at a higher clip, and even if he is not the long term solution for us as a starter we are not hampered by a guy who expects to start and makes almost twice a much.

You do know Vic is averaging 45% from the field and 37% from the arc right now. Averaging 16.4 Points, 4.3 Rebounds, and 2.5 Assist per.

That's not "mediocre" by any means...

unfortunately many on this board try to justify the Dipo trade by acting like he is a scrub and that he is way overpaid" but at the same time are ok with having BIZ at 17 million a year playing 20 minutes a game

That's because most people understood that the Magic needed rim protection and had a glut of guards last year. Maybe you missed that?

Love to hear your thoughts on Fournier now, since you are such a fan of Oladipo's numbers.

[JF5]

Yeah going big did not work, but I don't mind seeing the Magic try. You have to remember when we went 4 out 1 in years back, many people said that would fail because we were too small.

Additionally Oladipo is also a mediocre player. We traded him because he wanted a max extension to stay here in Orlando. It's not worth it. On a team that desperatley needs 3 point shooting, I believe Ross is a better fit. Angry trolls will mention that he is only shooting 27% from 3 with us still miss the point - Based on all data, Ross will get his mojo back and start knocking them down at a higher clip, and even if he is not the long term solution for us as a starter we are not hampered by a guy who expects to start and makes almost twice a much.

You do know Vic is averaging 45% from the field and 37% from the arc right now. Averaging 16.4 Points, 4.3 Rebounds, and 2.5 Assist per.

That's not "mediocre" by any means...

In an off shooting year Fournier is averaging 44% from the field and 35% from 3 with 16.9 PPG and 3 assists. Yet everyone says he is awful and should be traded. Yet somehow to you if those numbers are applied to Oladipo, he is not mediocre?

That's far from the point... You're getting upset because nobody is giving the same respect to Fournier as they are Oladipo currently. Nobody is saying Fournier is mediocre... But he sure as hell is playing some subpar basketball. Mainly because he's being asked to be something that he's not which is to be the main scoring option/playmaker. We've had him on this team for 3 seasons, and he's been pretty one dimensional. There is really no debating that... For a guy who has the ball in his hands that much to only average 3.2 assist is abysmal.

Also, Fournier is shooting 43.4 Percent from the field and 34.8 percent from 3... Nice try though...

[Mc-o]

You do know Vic is averaging 45% from the field and 37% from the arc right now. Averaging 16.4 Points, 4.3 Rebounds, and 2.5 Assist per.

That's not "mediocre" by any means...

unfortunately many on this board try to justify the Dipo trade by acting like he is a scrub and that he is way overpaid" but at the same time are ok with having BIZ at 17 million a year playing 20 minutes a game

That's because most people understood that the Magic needed rim protection and had a glut of guards last year. Maybe you missed that?

Love to hear your thoughts on Fournier now, since you are such a fan of Oladipo's numbers.

Glut of guards ? Really ? Where's the glut ? Didn't we just trade Ibaka for another guard who is a worst version of dipo ?! Lol I don't think dipo is a star but I much rather have kept dipo and pay him 24 a year rather than pay biz 17 million ! Especially because we could have just kept Dedmon at the fraction of the cost of biz !

[OrlandoDream]

Fournier and Ross cannot coexist on the court. Its that simple. Either bring one of the bench or trade one. I personally have seen enough of Fournier for 3 years and know exactly what to expect from him for the rest of his career. He is a good 6th man on a good team but we resort to starting him bc we suck. Id ship him out on draft night for a late lottery pick.

[PennytoShaq]

You do know Vic is averaging 45% from the field and 37% from the arc right now. Averaging 16.4 Points, 4.3 Rebounds, and 2.5 Assist per.

That's not "mediocre" by any means...

In an off shooting year Fournier is averaging 44% from the field and 35% from 3 with 16.9 PPG and 3 assists. Yet everyone says he is awful and should be traded. Yet somehow to you if those numbers are applied to Oladipo, he is not mediocre?

That's far from the point... You're getting upset because nobody is giving the same respect to Fournier as they are Oladipo currently. Nobody is saying Fournier is mediocre... But he sure as hell is playing some subpar basketball. Mainly because he's being asked to be something that he's not which is to be the main scoring option/playmaker. We've had him on this team for 3 seasons, and he's been pretty one dimensional. There is really no debating that... For a guy who has the ball in his hands that much to only average 3.2 assist is abysmal.

Also, Fournier is shooting 43.4 Percent from the field and 34.8 percent from 3... Nice try though...

If you want to talk about feelings, talk about you own, as reading text has no bearing on if someone is upset or not. Unfortunately me countering your post is not an indicator of me being upset, so you must be self-projecting.

If Fournier is playing subpar basketball with a similar statline as Oladipo, how is Oladipo not at least mediocre by your own definition?

[PennytoShaq]

unfortunately many on this board try to justify the Dipo trade by acting like he is a scrub and that he is way overpaid" but at the same time are ok with having BIZ at 17 million a year playing 20 minutes a game

That's because most people understood that the Magic needed rim protection and had a glut of guards last year. Maybe you missed that?

Love to hear your thoughts on Fournier now, since you are such a fan of Oladipo's numbers.

Glut of guards ? Really ? Where's the glut ? Didn't we just trade Ibaka for another guard who is a worst version of dipo ?! Lol I don't think dipo is a star but I much rather have kept dipo and pay him 24 a year rather than pay biz 17 million ! Especially because we could have just kept Dedmon at the fraction of the cost of biz !

You make a lot of assumptions. Did you know that Dedmon's agent asked the Magic to rescind their qualifying offer? Many people believe that Dedmon wanted to leave here. So maybe us keeping him was not an ideal option.

Additionally, Meeks has been hurt and Wilcox has not played. I guess you missed that. Again, last season I guarantee I could go find you posting that we needed rim protection. We went out and got that and it didn't work out, so you turn on the team and complain. It's funny how hindsight works with negative people.

[JF5]

In an off shooting year Fournier is averaging 44% from the field and 35% from 3 with 16.9 PPG and 3 assists. Yet everyone says he is awful and should be traded. Yet somehow to you if those numbers are applied to Oladipo, he is not mediocre?

That's far from the point... You're getting upset because nobody is giving the same respect to Fournier as they are Oladipo currently. Nobody is saying Fournier is mediocre... But he sure as hell is playing some subpar basketball. Mainly because he's being asked to be something that he's not which is to be the main scoring option/playmaker. We've had him on this team for 3 seasons, and he's been pretty one dimensional. There is really no debating that... For a guy who has the ball in his hands that much to only average 3.2 assist is abysmal.

Also, Fournier is shooting 43.4 Percent from the field and 34.8 percent from 3... Nice try though...

If you want to talk about feelings, talk about you own, as reading text has no bearing on if someone is upset or not. Unfortunately me countering your post is not an indicator of me being upset, so you must be self-projecting.

If Fournier is playing subpar basketball with a similar statline as Oladipo, how is Oladipo not at least mediocre by your own definition?

Projecting? You somehow assimilated Fournier in an Oladipo argument saying that Oladipo was "mediocre" when the stats state otherwise. You simply screwed up with your follow-up reply to my counter reply.

Fournier was and essentially the first option on the squad (Primary Perimeter threat) when the season started. He was so terrible at facilitating the offense and getting others involved to the point where Vogel ran the offense through Vucevic and Ibaka to which the team started to play better. Plus not to mention Evan himself had a hard time creating his own as there was more attention focused on him.

He currently is averaging 16.9 points a game. Shooting .498 efficiency... Again shooting 43.4 Percent from the field and 34.8 Percent from Three (Both below league average). Averaging only 3.3 Rebounds and 3.2 Assist a game. With an ORTG of 104 and an DRTG of 113.

Oladipo as the second option (Playing next to a ball dominate Westbrook) has averaged nearly as much points as Fournier, though he plays off the ball a lot more. Averaging 16.4 PPG on 45.5 Percent from the field and 37.6 from three. Shooting .528 efficiency. Averaging 4.3 rebounds and 2.5 assist per game with an ORTG of 110 and DRTG of 109.

[PennytoShaq]

That's far from the point... You're getting upset because nobody is giving the same respect to Fournier as they are Oladipo currently. Nobody is saying Fournier is mediocre... But he sure as hell is playing some subpar basketball. Mainly because he's being asked to be something that he's not which is to be the main scoring option/playmaker. We've had him on this team for 3 seasons, and he's been pretty one dimensional. There is really no debating that... For a guy who has the ball in his hands that much to only average 3.2 assist is abysmal.

Also, Fournier is shooting 43.4 Percent from the field and 34.8 percent from 3... Nice try though...

If you want to talk about feelings, talk about you own, as reading text has no bearing on if someone is upset or not. Unfortunately me countering your post is not an indicator of me being upset, so you must be self-projecting.

If Fournier is playing subpar basketball with a similar statline as Oladipo, how is Oladipo not at least mediocre by your own definition?

Projecting? You somehow assimilated Fournier in an Oladipo argument saying that Oladipo was "mediocre" when the stats state otherwise. You simply screwed up with your follow-up reply to my counter reply.

Fournier was and essentially the first option on the squad (Primary Perimeter threat) when the season started. He was so terrible at facilitating the offense and getting others involved to the point where Vogel ran the offense through Vucevic and Ibaka to which the team started to play better. Plus not to mention Evan himself had a hard time creating his own as there was more attention focused on him.

He currently is averaging 13.8 shots a game and averaging 16.9 points a game. Shooting .498 efficiency... Again shooting 43.4 Percent from the field and 34.8 Percent from Three (Both below league average). Averaging only 3.3 Rebounds and 3.2 Assist a game. With an ORTG of 104 and an DRTG of 113.

Oladipo as the second option (Playing next to a ball dominate Westbrook) has averaged nearly as much points as Fournier, though he plays off the ball a lot more. Averaging 16.4 PPG on 45.5 Percent from the field and 37.6 from three. Shooting .528 efficiency. Averaging 4.3 rebounds and 2.5 assist per game with an ORTG of 110 and DRTG of 109.

Yes, Oladipos numbers with Westbrook are much better than when Westbrook is not on the floor. You should check that out.

Fournier has no such luxury. He is not going to get the spacing or open looks that Oladipo gets. This is pretty obvious, especially with Ross and Fournier both struggling to hit their usual shooting %s on this current roster.

I did not screw anything up. Fournier has similar numbers to Oladipo, and currently averages more PPG than him. That's just how it is.

How did Oladipo do on a Magic team in the same role (almost exact same mpg, shot attempts as Fournier last year? Very similar numbers - except he scored about 1 ppg less.So I am not sure how anyone can make an argument that one guy is subpar and the other is a really good SG.

[JF5]

If you want to talk about feelings, talk about you own, as reading text has no bearing on if someone is upset or not. Unfortunately me countering your post is not an indicator of me being upset, so you must be self-projecting.

If Fournier is playing subpar basketball with a similar statline as Oladipo, how is Oladipo not at least mediocre by your own definition?

Projecting? You somehow assimilated Fournier in an Oladipo argument saying that Oladipo was "mediocre" when the stats state otherwise. You simply screwed up with your follow-up reply to my counter reply.

Fournier was and essentially the first option on the squad (Primary Perimeter threat) when the season started. He was so terrible at facilitating the offense and getting others involved to the point where Vogel ran the offense through Vucevic and Ibaka to which the team started to play better. Plus not to mention Evan himself had a hard time creating his own as there was more attention focused on him.

He currently is averaging 13.8 shots a game and averaging 16.9 points a game. Shooting .498 efficiency... Again shooting 43.4 Percent from the field and 34.8 Percent from Three (Both below league average). Averaging only 3.3 Rebounds and 3.2 Assist a game. With an ORTG of 104 and an DRTG of 113.

Oladipo as the second option (Playing next to a ball dominate Westbrook) has averaged nearly as much points as Fournier, though he plays off the ball a lot more. Averaging 16.4 PPG on 45.5 Percent from the field and 37.6 from three. Shooting .528 efficiency. Averaging 4.3 rebounds and 2.5 assist per game with an ORTG of 110 and DRTG of 109.

Yes, Oladipos numbers with Westbrook are much better than when Westbrook is not on the floor. You should check that out.

Fournier has no such luxury. He is not going to get the spacing or open looks that Oladipo gets. This is pretty obvious, especially with Ross and Fournier both struggling to hit their usual shooting %s on this current roster.

I did not screw anything up. Fournier has similar numbers to Oladipo, and currently averages more PPG than him. That's just how it is.

How did Oladipo do on a Magic team in the same role (almost exact same mpg, shot attempts as Fournier last year? Very similar numbers - except he scored about 1 ppg less.So I am not sure how anyone can make an argument that one guy is subpar and the other is a really good SG.

Why don't you show me? We're having an conversation... Introduce some facts/numbers instead of emotionally invested statements.

Plus, Oladipo average 16 points flat compared to Fournier's 15.4 in the 2015-2016 season. (Though Oladipo did take 2 more shots a game which ALSO indicate he was the primary perimeter option)

Yeah, Oladipo 2015-2016 had similar SCORING numbers to Evan this season. But the difference was Oladipo was a superior passer (3.9 compared to Evan's 3.2)/rebounder (4.8 compared to Evan's 3.3)/defender (106 DRTG to Evan's 113).

But lets not act like Victor is better than Founier.

[PennytoShaq]

Projecting? You somehow assimilated Fournier in an Oladipo argument saying that Oladipo was "mediocre" when the stats state otherwise. You simply screwed up with your follow-up reply to my counter reply.

Fournier was and essentially the first option on the squad (Primary Perimeter threat) when the season started. He was so terrible at facilitating the offense and getting others involved to the point where Vogel ran the offense through Vucevic and Ibaka to which the team started to play better. Plus not to mention Evan himself had a hard time creating his own as there was more attention focused on him.

He currently is averaging 13.8 shots a game and averaging 16.9 points a game. Shooting .498 efficiency... Again shooting 43.4 Percent from the field and 34.8 Percent from Three (Both below league average). Averaging only 3.3 Rebounds and 3.2 Assist a game. With an ORTG of 104 and an DRTG of 113.

Oladipo as the second option (Playing next to a ball dominate Westbrook) has averaged nearly as much points as Fournier, though he plays off the ball a lot more. Averaging 16.4 PPG on 45.5 Percent from the field and 37.6 from three. Shooting .528 efficiency. Averaging 4.3 rebounds and 2.5 assist per game with an ORTG of 110 and DRTG of 109.

Yes, Oladipos numbers with Westbrook are much better than when Westbrook is not on the floor. You should check that out.

Fournier has no such luxury. He is not going to get the spacing or open looks that Oladipo gets. This is pretty obvious, especially with Ross and Fournier both struggling to hit their usual shooting %s on this current roster.

I did not screw anything up. Fournier has similar numbers to Oladipo, and currently averages more PPG than him. That's just how it is.

How did Oladipo do on a Magic team in the same role (almost exact same mpg, shot attempts as Fournier last year? Very similar numbers - except he scored about 1 ppg less.So I am not sure how anyone can make an argument that one guy is subpar and the other is a really good SG.

Why don't you show me? We're having an conversation... Introduce some facts/numbers instead of emotionally invested statements.

Plus, Oladipo average 16 points flat compared to Fournier's 15.4 in the 2015-2016 season. (Though Oladipo did take 2 more shots a game which ALSO indicate he was the primary perimeter option)

Yeah, Oladipo 2015-2016 had similar SCORING numbers to Evan this season. But the difference was Oladipo was a superior passer (3.9 compared to Evan's 3.2)/rebounder (4.8 compared to Evan's 3.3)/defender (106 DRTG to Evan's 113).

But lets not act like Victor is better than Founier.

Sure, there you go. Oladipo as a full time wing for the Magic V Fournier.

http://bkref.com/tiny/5GrMz

There is no emotion involved, my friend. That's just on you - again. Pretty clear to see they are quite similar as players. I appreciate your attempt to spin this though. Not sure why you keep this going, but whatever makes you feel good.

[MagicStarwipe]

Fournier being mediocre has little to do with his numbers, but the way he plays the game. He has little impact on the court other than when his shot is falling, makes bad decisions with he ball all the time and doesn't play good team basketball.

[JF5]

Yes, Oladipos numbers with Westbrook are much better than when Westbrook is not on the floor. You should check that out.

Fournier has no such luxury. He is not going to get the spacing or open looks that Oladipo gets. This is pretty obvious, especially with Ross and Fournier both struggling to hit their usual shooting %s on this current roster.

I did not screw anything up. Fournier has similar numbers to Oladipo, and currently averages more PPG than him. That's just how it is.

How did Oladipo do on a Magic team in the same role (almost exact same mpg, shot attempts as Fournier last year? Very similar numbers - except he scored about 1 ppg less.So I am not sure how anyone can make an argument that one guy is subpar and the other is a really good SG.

Why don't you show me? We're having an conversation... Introduce some facts/numbers instead of emotionally invested statements.

Plus, Oladipo average 16 points flat compared to Fournier's 15.4 in the 2015-2016 season. (Though Oladipo did take 2 more shots a game which ALSO indicate he was the primary perimeter option)

Yeah, Oladipo 2015-2016 had similar SCORING numbers to Evan this season. But the difference was Oladipo was a superior passer (3.9 compared to Evan's 3.2)/rebounder (4.8 compared to Evan's 3.3)/defender (106 DRTG to Evan's 113).

But lets not act like Victor is better than Founier.

Sure, there you go. Oladipo as a full time wing for the Magic V Fournier.

http://bkref.com/tiny/5GrMz

There is no emotion involved, my friend. That's just on you - again. Pretty clear to see they are quite similar as players. I appreciate your attempt to spin this though. Not sure why you keep this going, but whatever makes you feel good.

My apologies, I meant Oladipo with Westbrook off the court...

I just stated the total numbers compared to the two during both seasons. And Fournier still falls behind nearly every statistic outside of the PPG as their shooting percentages are pretty much identical. You pretty much enhanced my points of Oladipo being better than Fournier in general.