SOUL wrote:pepe1991 wrote:]
So who is? Elfrid Payton, 12 ppg ,5,9 apg player who makes lot of defensive mistakes, who had best month of basketball in January, where "his" team lost 12 of 16 games? With below average efficiency and putrid 3 point shooting.
Or it's clear that by efficiency, and raw PPG leader of this team is 17 ppg , 3,2 rpg, 3,2 apg player who at least is league average at efficiency and who , unlike Payton, could at least be starter or 6th man on some contending team.
I mean I watch every game.. so I take a lot of raw numbers with a grain of salt. If I see Fournier constantly looking off open players and trying to get his numbers and getting his **** rocked at the rim, I don't care if he averages 6 assists a game.. he does it way too often for an $85 million dollar player to be a great offensive option. It offsets his ability to get to the line and shoot, and this season he's not shooting well at all compared to last season.
He's billed as a shooter/scorer, and that's where he has let me down the most. I know what to expect from him on defense (effort but not exactly results) and passing (spotty and selfish at times) .. which is why comparing TS% for players with different opportunities, usage and ages is a little bit silly.
If you want to into advanced stats, we can do that. Except do it with his counterparts at the same position and not players like Payton and Gordon because at this point we're hoping they become great shooters, not expecting them to be.
Fournier is under Oladipo, Stauskas, Wes Matthews... the latter two being people that have bounced around or been injured/struggling and Fournier is still under them. Oladipo the guy we moved... better TS% than Fournier.. he's 39th in SGs in TS%.
PER 30th.
Value added.. 23rd as SG, wins added 23rd as SG.
Usage 11th.
Offensive win shares 1.1, defense win shares 0.9.. total of 2.0, (down from 5.7 win shares last year.)
This is not a player that is "the best player on our team".And Elfrid... yes, he's not shooting threes well at all. That's not hard to see.
TS% 47th among PGs, so not great.
PER 19th among PGs.
Value added 16th, wins added 16th.
(He's the only one under 30 MPG hanging with a bunch of PGs in the 30-34 range)
Usage 26th.
Offensive win shares, 1.4.. Defensive win shares, 1.7, total 3.1 (up from 2.2 last year).
There is a clear cutoff from the top 13 pgs, but in most other categories, and especially with more minutes.. Elfrid has consistently played like a top 14-19 PG this year in most categories. Is that great? No, but considering how "inconsistent" he is and the fact that he's still young compared to a lot of the players in that area (and outplaying a lot of his younger counterparts), I'll definitely take that. He's not untouchable because it matters who we'd like to build around and what style we want to run but people should stop pretending like he is the issue because it just isn't true at all. He may not be the answer, but he's not the problem.
Evan has shown his usage is way too high for what he provides and he's still only producing like a bench SG in a lot of advanced categories. You can't convince me he's playing good this year.
so nobody is going to give a lot for Payton in the summer or near next deadline for obvious reasons.Those assets wont be an asssets anymore soon enough.
