Official Speculation Thread 2017 Volume IX- Major Changes Coming

[Skybox]

I think Gordon has a legit chance to be "Most Improved" and I hope TRoss rises to a bigger role. I expect more Biyombo this year too.

If San Antonio decides to go after CP3, could we poach some of their supporting cast to help them clear space? I like Danny Green and I'm intrigued by Kyle Anderson and Dejountay Murray....preferably for some future 2nd rounders

[Cammo101]

I think Gordon has a legit chance to be "Most Improved" and I hope TRoss rises to a bigger role. I expect more Biyombo this year too.

If San Antonio decides to go after CP3, could we poach some of their supporting cast to help them clear space? I like Danny Green and I'm intrigued by Kyle Anderson and Dejountay Murray....preferably for some future 2nd rounders

Jonathan Simmons is the guy to get. They won't pay what it will take to keep him and IMO he is this year's breakout free agent, ala Harrison Barnes last year.

[Darth Magic]

I think Gordon has a legit chance to be "Most Improved" and I hope TRoss rises to a bigger role. I expect more Biyombo this year too.

If San Antonio decides to go after CP3, could we poach some of their supporting cast to help them clear space? I like Danny Green and I'm intrigued by Kyle Anderson and Dejountay Murray....preferably for some future 2nd rounders

Jonathan Simmons is the guy to get. They won't pay what it will take to keep him and IMO he is this year's breakout free agent, ala Harrison Barnes last year.

I'm starting to warm up to Tony Snell

[Bensational]

I think Gordon has a legit chance to be "Most Improved" and I hope TRoss rises to a bigger role. I expect more Biyombo this year too.

If San Antonio decides to go after CP3, could we poach some of their supporting cast to help them clear space? I like Danny Green and I'm intrigued by Kyle Anderson and Dejountay Murray....preferably for some future 2nd rounders

Jonathan Simmons is the guy to get. They won't pay what it will take to keep him and IMO he is this year's breakout free agent, ala Harrison Barnes last year.

I'd take all of those guys. Simmons, Anderson, Murray - they'd all be great pieces to bring off the bench or potentially start, and they've all been well groomed.

Simmons looks poised to break out as a scorer if given a bigger role. He seems like a slightly slower version of Jimmy Butler to me, but he's got a good mid range jumper that could fit into Vogel's Paul George playbook instantly.

How expensive do you think he'll be? If we added him, we'd have to likely move one of Fournier or Ross for an upgrade at the 3. If we could pull the mythological Vuc for Crowder trade, we'd look good pretty quickly.

Biyombo/Zimmerman
Gordon/Hezonja
Crowder/Ross
Simmons/Fournier
Payton/?

That doesn't even begin to account for our draft picks or other potential moves.

[cedric76]

I really expect a lot of moves. I think AG and evan r the only 2 safe people here.

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[SOUL]

If Weltman wants to instill a "playing for the next player" mindset in the clubhouse, Fournier will be the first one to go.

Unless he meant it to actually be singular, then yes, Fournier quite literally does play for Vucevic.

[pepe1991]

I think Gordon has a legit chance to be "Most Improved" and I hope TRoss rises to a bigger role. I expect more Biyombo this year too.

If San Antonio decides to go after CP3, could we poach some of their supporting cast to help them clear space? I like Danny Green and I'm intrigued by Kyle Anderson and Dejountay Murray....preferably for some future 2nd rounders

Jonathan Simmons is the guy to get. They won't pay what it will take to keep him and IMO he is this year's breakout free agent, ala Harrison Barnes last year.

I'm starting to warm up to Tony Snell

Snell is garbage. Idea that he is good defender doesn't really hold on since he has negative defensive box plus minus and his defensive rating is medicore at best. On offense he can make threes but that's literally only thing he does. He waay,way below passer for a position ( career 6,9% assist percentage ) and in 2380 min he played he only draw shooting foul 28 times. His PER 36 min production never even reached Hezonja's rookie season

[Xatticus]

If Weltman wants to instill a "playing for the next player" mindset in the clubhouse, Fournier will be the first one to go.

Unless he meant it to actually be singular, then yes, Fournier quite literally does play for Vucevic.

I don't think Fournier is going anywhere. Coaches love him. Skiles loved him. Vogel seemed to love him. The really big thing that came out of luncheon-gate to me was that Fournier wasn't listed among Hennigan's players to build around, but Hennigan is gone now. Given what Weltman said about getting with Vogel to learn about where the team goes from here, I have to believe that Vogel will give Fournier a glowing endorsement. Perhaps another year or two of sieve-like perimeter defense will alter Vogel's views, but he rode him for heavy minutes all year. I think he is really comfortable with Fournier for now.

[SOUL]

If Weltman wants to instill a "playing for the next player" mindset in the clubhouse, Fournier will be the first one to go.

Unless he meant it to actually be singular, then yes, Fournier quite literally does play for Vucevic.

I don't think Fournier is going anywhere. Coaches love him. Skiles loved him. Vogel seemed to love him. The really big thing that came out of luncheon-gate to me was that Fournier wasn't listed among Hennigan's players to build around, but Hennigan is gone now. Given what Weltman said about getting with Vogel to learn about where the team goes from here, I have to believe that Vogel will give Fournier a glowing endorsement. Perhaps another year or two of sieve-like perimeter defense will alter Vogel's views, but he rode him for heavy minutes all year. I think he is really comfortable with Fournier for now.

I'm being a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I agree. If we were completely serious about that though, he'd be the first one that should try to take a long, hard look at that part of his game.

[pepe1991]

If Weltman wants to instill a "playing for the next player" mindset in the clubhouse, Fournier will be the first one to go.

Unless he meant it to actually be singular, then yes, Fournier quite literally does play for Vucevic.

I don't think Fournier is going anywhere. Coaches love him. Skiles loved him. Vogel seemed to love him. The really big thing that came out of luncheon-gate to me was that Fournier wasn't listed among Hennigan's players to build around, but Hennigan is gone now. Given what Weltman said about getting with Vogel to learn about where the team goes from here, I have to believe that Vogel will give Fournier a glowing endorsement. Perhaps another year or two of sieve-like perimeter defense will alter Vogel's views, but he rode him for heavy minutes all year. I think he is really comfortable with Fournier for now.

I'm being a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I agree. If we were completely serious about that though, he'd be the first one that should try to take a long, hard look at that part of his game.

There is no much to hate about Fournier.
He is still young, he is productive ,despite having bad year he was still one of most productive Magic players. He fits his position well, he is good scorer, get to free trow line enough, he is one of better SG passers in nba, he is not much of a rebounder ( but again, that doesn't really matter for SG) . He is not great defender but he is not worst one, and his offensive rating is always high. Always effective (high TS, eFG% ).
It's clear that he can't be first option on offense but you can say same thing for each and every other Magic player.

[cedric76]

Fournier and ag are not going anywhere. They r loved by coaches and management

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[Darth Magic]

Jonathan Simmons is the guy to get. They won't pay what it will take to keep him and IMO he is this year's breakout free agent, ala Harrison Barnes last year.

I'm starting to warm up to Tony Snell

Snell is garbage. Idea that he is good defender doesn't really hold on since he has negative defensive box plus minus and his defensive rating is medicore at best. On offense he can make threes but that's literally only thing he does. He waay,way below passer for a position ( career 6,9% assist percentage ) and in 2380 min he played he only draw shooting foul 28 times. His PER 36 min production never even reached Hezonja's rookie season

You're the type of poster who throws out stats that fit your agenda and ignore the ones that don't. Snell shoots over 40 percent from three making almost 2 a game. Long athletic three and D wing who was giving derozan fitz during the playoffs. He's 25 and still has some upside to him. He's not a world beater, but he's certainly no scrub. Could upgrade our small forward spot with shooting and defense. Plus he won't break the bank.

To be clear, DeRozan can make those shots — he converted 48.0 percent of his attempts against very tight defense this season and they made up almost a quarter of his offense — but Snell has the length to make them more difficult than DeRozan is used to. DeRozan has only attempted seven jumpers against Snell in the series and he’s yet to hit one. DeRozan has knocked down a couple of floaters with Snell guarding him, but even those were heavily contested. All in all, DeRozan is shooting 4-for-13 with Snell guarding him.

http://fansided.com/2017/04/22/demar-derozan-bucks-defense-snell-maker/

[Darth Magic]

Fournier and ag are not going anywhere. They r loved by coaches and management

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I'm not sure about that. Fournier is a good player but he is a head scratcher. I really like him, but he's too slow to guard competent shooting guards, especially guards who come off screens, and he's too small to guard the better small forwards in the league. I honestly see him as a 6th man on a good team.

[pepe1991]

I'm starting to warm up to Tony Snell

Snell is garbage. Idea that he is good defender doesn't really hold on since he has negative defensive box plus minus and his defensive rating is medicore at best. On offense he can make threes but that's literally only thing he does. He waay,way below passer for a position ( career 6,9% assist percentage ) and in 2380 min he played he only draw shooting foul 28 times. His PER 36 min production never even reached Hezonja's rookie season

You're the type of poster who throws out stats that fit your agenda and ignore the ones that don't. Snell shoots over 40 percent from three making almost 2 a game. Long athletic three and D wing who was giving derozan fitz during the playoffs. He's 25 and still has some upside to him. He's not a world beater, but he's certainly no scrub. Could upgrade our small forward spot with shooting and defense. Plus he won't break the bank.

Ooook let's go deeeeeeeeeeeep inside Tony Snell (damn this sounds wrong ) and your comments and why i said he is garbage.

First claim : he is athletic wing ,good defender.
He never blocks shots, he has around 0,7 steals per game on 29 mpg, both numbers way below average. So yea, doing drills he is athletic ( only reason why we even know that is data from draft combine) but he never really uses it in a game.
Good defender? Good defenders don't have Jeff Green nubers on defensive ratings.
Conclusion: he is medicore (at best) defender, long and athletic but it doesn't trasnlate into his game ( just like Hezonja of Jeff Green ).

Second claim: Snell shoots over 40 percent from three making almost 2 a game.
That is true , however , it's only true in a vacuum.
Mindblowing 99% of all his 3s were assisted. Overall 66% of all his shots are assisted. So legit quetion is how much he benefits from playing with one of best players in the league in Giannis ( who is elite passer) along with above average players like Parker and Middelton? We can even answer that question by looking at his numbers before he played for Bucks. And result say that over his first 3 years he was career 39% FG, 35% 3 point shooter. He had one of worst TS% by wings just year ago.
Conclusion: better teammates, better ball movment- and he looks ok. Worst teammates, worst ball movment and he was ranked as one of worst player in the league.

Third claim: Could upgrade our small forward spot
He literally has one of worst rebounding AND passing percentages by all starting wings in the nba. Matter of fact lot of backups have higher percentages as well. When guards like Mudiay and Payton have higher rebounding percentages than 6'8 SF you know how bad he is.
Conclusion: You know you suck when Jeff Green is more versitale .

My claim : he is one of worst players in whole league at getting to the free trow line:
in 2300 min he draw 29 shootings fouls but not all 29 of them were shooting fouls, part of them were common fouls after opponents were in bonus. It's amazing how low that number is.


But he made a history this year :

Spoiler:

menaged to play 28 min and had 0 points, 0 rebounds,
0 steals, 0 assists , 0 blocks against Jazz, i'm not sure is that first time in nba history, but it damn is first time since Roy Hibbert did it

man, Roy Hibbert was probably so proud

[Darth Magic]

First claim : he is athletic wing ,good defender.
He never blocks shots, he has around 0,7 steals per game on 29 mpg, both numbers way below average. So yea, doing drills he is athletic ( only reason why we even know that is data from draft combine) but he never really uses it in a game.
Good defender? Good defenders don't have Jeff Green nubers on defensive ratings.
Conclusion: he is medicore (at best) defender, long and athletic but it doesn't trasnlate into his game ( just like Hezonja of Jeff Green ).

Firstly, Jeff Green is 30 and on his way down, Snell is 25 and is an ascending player. Poor comparison. Secondly, i jus saw him lock up one of the best scorers in the league. Steals and blocks are poor ways to judge perimeter defense.

Second claim: Snell shoots over 40 percent from three making almost 2 a game.
That is true , however , it's only true in a vacuum.
Mindblowing 99% of all his 3s were assisted. Overall 66% of all his shots are assisted. So legit quetion is how much he benefits from playing with one of best players in the league in Giannis ( who is elite passer) along with above average players like Parker and Middelton? We can even answer that question by looking at his numbers before he played for Bucks. And result say that over his first 3 years he was career 39% FG, 35% 3 point shooter. He had one of worst TS% by wings just year ago.
Conclusion: better teammates, better ball movment- and he looks ok. Worst teammates, worst ball movment and he was ranked as one of worst player in the league.

Ok, let me repeat this. He is a 3 and D player. Which 3 and D player doesn't have most of his shots coming off assists? Secondly, he's 25 and improving. He has gone from 39% field goal to 45% field goal. He's gone from 35% 3pt percentage to 41%. That is evidence of hard work and dedication. Not indicative of a 'garbage' player. And just in case you missed it. He's still 25 and not as good as he can be.

Third claim: Could upgrade our small forward spot
He literally has one of worst rebounding AND passing percentages by all starting wings in the nba. Matter of fact lot of backups have higher percentages as well. When guards like Mudiay and Payton have higher rebounding percentages than 6'8 SF you know how bad he is.
Conclusion: You know you suck when Jeff Green is more versitale .

Again, absurd argument on two counts. His numbers are skewed because he wasn't a full time starter and only became one because of injury. Secondly, Jeff Green is 30 and declining. Snell is 25 and improving. The comparison doesn't make sense. Again, he's a 3 and D player who is growing into the role and can improve both rebounding and passing. These are not set skills that can't get better. again, 25 years old.

My claim : he is one of worst players in whole league at getting to the free trow line:
in 2300 min he draw 29 shootings fouls but not all 29 of them were shooting fouls, part of them were common fouls after opponents were in bonus. It's amazing how low that number is.

Do you remember a guy named Michael Pietrus who helped us get to the NBA finals? How many times did he get to the free throw line? In our nba finals season he shot 2 a game at a rate of .709 percent. Also shot nearly .359 from three. 06 steals a game 0.4 blocks a game. Garbage player right?

But he made a history this year :

Spoiler:

menaged to play 28 min and had 0 points, 0 rebounds,
0 steals, 0 assists , 0 blocks against Jazz, i'm not sure is that first time in nba history, but it damn is first time since Roy Hibbert did it

man, Roy Hibbert was probably so proud

So you're telling me a two time All-Star and Defensive player of the year did something similar? Garbage player right?

[j-ragg]

No one is claiming Snell is good. But in terms of a backup 3+D option I think he's a cheap one that knows his role in the league now. Could turn out to be a less beefy Jae Crowder type of role.

[pepe1991]

No one is claiming Snell is good. But in terms of a backup 3+D option I think he's a cheap one that knows his role in the league now. Could turn out to be a less beefy Jae Crowder type of role.

http://bkref.com/tiny/uihcs

His contribution is nowhere near Crowders level. And i'm not sure he will be that cheap. I would not mind him as somebody who will be 9# man in rotation, but since he was starter last year he will be payed like one. I expect him to get $11M per year at least. That's basically minimum for starter now.

[j-ragg]

No one is claiming Snell is good. But in terms of a backup 3+D option I think he's a cheap one that knows his role in the league now. Could turn out to be a less beefy Jae Crowder type of role.

http://bkref.com/tiny/uihcs

His contribution is nowhere near Crowders level. And i'm not sure he will be that cheap. I would not mind him as somebody who will be 9# man in rotation, but since he was starter last year he will be payed like one. I expect him to get $11M per year at least. That's basically minimum for starter now.

I don't understand what you're trying to prove? Crowder is better. I compared their roles. Snell would be the most efficient player on our team and he shoots a lot of threes while being a long athletic defender. If I compared him to Danny Green would that suffice? Those kind of guys are never bad on a team.

[Shady Franchise]

I think Gordon has a legit chance to be "Most Improved" and I hope TRoss rises to a bigger role. I expect more Biyombo this year too.

If San Antonio decides to go after CP3, could we poach some of their supporting cast to help them clear space? I like Danny Green and I'm intrigued by Kyle Anderson and Dejountay Murray....preferably for some future 2nd rounders

Jonathan Simmons is the guy to get. They won't pay what it will take to keep him and IMO he is this year's breakout free agent, ala Harrison Barnes last year.

I was high on him at the beginning of the season. Hell, I even drafted him late in my fantasy league. Too bad his stock has skyrocketed! We could have had him for a lot less than he's going for now.

[pepe1991]

No one is claiming Snell is good. But in terms of a backup 3+D option I think he's a cheap one that knows his role in the league now. Could turn out to be a less beefy Jae Crowder type of role.

http://bkref.com/tiny/uihcs

His contribution is nowhere near Crowders level. And i'm not sure he will be that cheap. I would not mind him as somebody who will be 9# man in rotation, but since he was starter last year he will be payed like one. I expect him to get $11M per year at least. That's basically minimum for starter now.

I don't understand what you're trying to prove? Crowder is better. I compared their roles. Snell would be the most efficient player on our team and he shoots a lot of threes while being a long athletic defender. If I compared him to Danny Green would that suffice? Those kind of guys are never bad on a team.

Crowder has bigger role and is supeirior player in pretty much every single category. Green is superior shooter, rebounder and defender ( 113 defensive rating to 104 ) , Green has defensive box plus minus +2,7, Tony Snell 1,1 - negative. Despite fact that Tony played almost 600 min more than Green, Green still has 28 assists more.

He had one good season. Looked like somebody who doesn't belong to nba in 3 years before that. I just don't see appeal at trowing money at him. Especially because he won't be cheap.

How about Troy Williams ? 22 years old , spent time in D league , super athletic,at least you have some upside?
Or guys like Sefalosha or Casspi, at least you know what are you getting with them. If Magic draft Isaac he will be starter , or backup SF so there will be no need for SF anyway..