Stein: Hammond to be Magic GM (updated)

[yoyojw17]

It took me some time to analyse Magic season before and after allstar because common sense on this forum is that Magic were sooo much better after allstar game than they were before.


So let's get to the good old numbers, shell we.
First claim ( that nobody argues about ) : Magic were pile of garbage before allstar game:
98,62 - PACE- ranked 19 in NBA. One of slowest teams.
100,5 -offensive rating, second worst in NBA (29#)
107,2- defensive rating (22# best or 8# worst in that )
48,6% - effective field goal percentage (27# in the league )
55,2 TS- last (30#)

Conclusion : pile of ***t

After allstar break
107,77 - PACE (9# in the league )
102,9 -offensive rating (26)
109,9 - (25# best or 5th worst in the league )
48,7% - effective field goal percenage ( 27#)
52,9% (27# TS)

Conclusion: faster. That's it. Faster pile of ***t. As much as their offense improved, and that's not saying much because they were still bottom 4 in offensive rating, TS and eFG% ,their defense declined. So it balenced out by having pretty much same win percentage as they had before allstar game. If we are going even deeeper into stats, despite having more possessions where they should have more open looks, more layups and more easy points that should generate higher eFG% and TS ,team saw almost no improvment in that category as well. So their eFG% improved by whooping 0,1% and TS by 0,7%. Opposite of other high pace teams like Nuggets, Wizards even Kings, who after allstar break were all in top 10 in both eFG and TS. That's just shows how negligible Magic "post allstar improvment" really was.

That feeds into my theory that i never bothered to defend prior today- that only difference for Magic was: it was not Ibaka who was getting his, it was Payton and Gordon. And again, that's not bad thing at all, going to youth direction , but i'm so damn tired of listening how Magic got so much better once when they changed direction. Because they didn't . It's better when youth keeps you in bottom 5 in each and every category than vet who is about to get paid. Problem with Magic is simple- youth is about to get paid as well.

That also feeds into my "individuad outburst " point better than even I thought when i said it. Guy was getting his, team saw no difference. That impact on team should be named " Rudy Gaying".

all data from nba tracking-

How bout we look at his affect on the game and and not factor in the crap that goes on the court when he's not there.

http://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/#!?sort=PIE&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*25&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&SeasonSegment=Post%20All-Star&PlayerPosition=G

post allstar game .... looks like he takes a pretty decent piece of the PIE... and has a positive net rating on the team.

Note he is 15th on the list of guards in the whole nba that plays more than 25 min per game.... and is the second youngest... only to Giannis.

Not tryin to call the guy our darn savior .... but just that he does not deserve as much flack as people give him. The guy is doing well.... not in the flashy new car way that everyone might wanted... but he's doing well!

PIE is interesting data but , just like PER ( it's NBA version of PER as far as i know ) it's in favor of PGs and Cs because they have monopoly over rebounds and assists on most teams. (For example, Derrick Rose has higher PER than Klay Thompson, Booker, Middleton, Redick...). Also, just like PER , PIE ignores defense and puts whole defensive side of a game in two boxes: steals and blocks.

So, if you look at PIE leaders, 34# most valuable player in the league is - Nikola Vučević, over Paul George, Irving and McCollum.

I'm hopeful that Payton can improve, to be honest i'm just tired of moral victories and i hope team can turn things around in near future.

THIS IS ALL I'VE EVER WANTED TO HEAR FROM YOU! lol

i just think that those that are already putting nails in his coffin and ready put him out to pasture is prematurely doing so. If people wanna cry about moe harkless.... i feel even more tears will fall when he blossoms somewhere else.... with a fresh new haircut

[pepe1991]

How bout we look at his affect on the game and and not factor in the crap that goes on the court when he's not there.

http://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/#!?sort=PIE&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*25&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&SeasonSegment=Post%20All-Star&PlayerPosition=G

post allstar game .... looks like he takes a pretty decent piece of the PIE... and has a positive net rating on the team.

Note he is 15th on the list of guards in the whole nba that plays more than 25 min per game.... and is the second youngest... only to Giannis.

Not tryin to call the guy our darn savior .... but just that he does not deserve as much flack as people give him. The guy is doing well.... not in the flashy new car way that everyone might wanted... but he's doing well!

PIE is interesting data but , just like PER ( it's NBA version of PER as far as i know ) it's in favor of PGs and Cs because they have monopoly over rebounds and assists on most teams. (For example, Derrick Rose has higher PER than Klay Thompson, Booker, Middleton, Redick...). Also, just like PER , PIE ignores defense and puts whole defensive side of a game in two boxes: steals and blocks.

So, if you look at PIE leaders, 34# most valuable player in the league is - Nikola Vučević, over Paul George, Irving and McCollum.

I'm hopeful that Payton can improve, to be honest i'm just tired of moral victories and i hope team can turn things around in near future.

THIS IS ALL I'VE EVER WANTED TO HEAR FROM YOU! lol

i just think that those that are already putting nails in his coffin and ready put him out to pasture is prematurely doing so. If people wanna cry about moe harkless.... i feel even more tears will fall when he blossoms somewhere else.... with a fresh new haircut

somebody has mad photoshop skills tho

[OrlandoDream]

PIE is interesting data but , just like PER ( it's NBA version of PER as far as i know ) it's in favor of PGs and Cs because they have monopoly over rebounds and assists on most teams. (For example, Derrick Rose has higher PER than Klay Thompson, Booker, Middleton, Redick...). Also, just like PER , PIE ignores defense and puts whole defensive side of a game in two boxes: steals and blocks.

So, if you look at PIE leaders, 34# most valuable player in the league is - Nikola Vučević, over Paul George, Irving and McCollum.

I'm hopeful that Payton can improve, to be honest i'm just tired of moral victories and i hope team can turn things around in near future.

THIS IS ALL I'VE EVER WANTED TO HEAR FROM YOU! lol

i just think that those that are already putting nails in his coffin and ready put him out to pasture is prematurely doing so. If people wanna cry about moe harkless.... i feel even more tears will fall when he blossoms somewhere else.... with a fresh new haircut

somebody has mad photoshop skills tho

Seriously though, it's time. The teenager haircut has to go. Whether he admits it or not, it's affecting his shot and that affects the team. EP just isn't there mentally. It makes me question his off-court habits and commitment sometimes. You're going into your fourth and possibly last year with Orlando. Make the most of it.

[pepe1991]

THIS IS ALL I'VE EVER WANTED TO HEAR FROM YOU! lol

i just think that those that are already putting nails in his coffin and ready put him out to pasture is prematurely doing so. If people wanna cry about moe harkless.... i feel even more tears will fall when he blossoms somewhere else.... with a fresh new haircut

somebody has mad photoshop skills tho

Seriously though, it's time. The teenager haircut has to go. Whether he admits it or not, it's affecting his shot and that affects the team. EP just isn't there mentally. It makes me question his off-court habits and commitment sometimes. You're going into your fourth and possibly last year with Orlando. Make the most of it.

He can at least make cornrows so his hair doesn't touch ball in shooting motion

[OrlandoDream]

somebody has mad photoshop skills tho

Seriously though, it's time. The teenager haircut has to go. Whether he admits it or not, it's affecting his shot and that affects the team. EP just isn't there mentally. It makes me question his off-court habits and commitment sometimes. You're going into your fourth and possibly last year with Orlando. Make the most of it.

He can at least make cornrows so his hair doesn't touch ball in shooting motion

I forgot who, but somebody posted a couple months back when they saw EP at a signing and he said it was gonna come off this offseason. We will see if he keep his word.

[Def Swami]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[ShotCreator]

THIS IS ALL I'VE EVER WANTED TO HEAR FROM YOU! lol

i just think that those that are already putting nails in his coffin and ready put him out to pasture is prematurely doing so. If people wanna cry about moe harkless.... i feel even more tears will fall when he blossoms somewhere else.... with a fresh new haircut

somebody has mad photoshop skills tho

Seriously though, it's time. The teenager haircut has to go. Whether he admits it or not, it's affecting his shot and that affects the team. EP just isn't there mentally. It makes me question his off-court habits and commitment sometimes. You're going into your fourth and possibly last year with Orlando. Make the most of it.

People take the long hair shooting splits stuff seriously?

But i'll say this, it wouldn't hurt at all.

[KillMonger]

Yeah maybe it is time for elf to retire that hairstyle but man it does make him stand out. Dude has a birdsnest for a hairstyle.

Sent from my expensive phone using my hands

[NickAnderson]

Hammond was did a quick interview on satellite radio yesterday. He basically said it's gonna take time and really wouldn't answer any questions about the roster.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Max Power]

That pretty much means the entire roster is gonna be changed. Two new guys running things. They'll turn this into their image. Obviously guys like Payton and Gordon were Hennigan's pet projects. These guys may make Weltman and Hammond puke, who knows. I fully expect most of the current roster to be gone in less than 2 years time. If not all of them.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Blue_and_Whte]

I don't care what the Bucks fan base says. No two teams or situations are going to be the same.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[fendilim]

I don't care what the Bucks fan base says. No two teams or situations are going to be the same.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I think most of the complains comes from the trades.

The free agent signings, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. There's no way you're going to lure a young NBA player to play in Milwaukee without overpaying him.

[paulpressey25]

The free agent signings, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. There's no way you're going to lure a young NBA player to play in Milwaukee without overpaying him.

The issue for many of us in Milwaukee wasn't that we expected to land guys like Dwight, Chris Paul or even a Horford type in free agency.

The issue is that none of us would have wasted our time acquiring or resigning Drew Gooden, Miles Plumlee, John Salmons, Corey Maggette, old Richard Jefferson, etc, all of whom were huge contract liabilities from the day they were acquired.

As long as Weltman only has Hammond run the draft and do the rubber chicken circuit with the local YMCA banquets you'll be fine. Those are his two big strengths. If he's asked to be the chief visionary in acquiring and developing a roster, he's really bad at that.

[PennytoShaq]

[
As long as Weltman only has Hammond run the draft and do the rubber chicken circuit with the local YMCA banquets you'll be fine.

That's the plan. It's Weltman's show.

[fendilim]

The free agent signings, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. There's no way you're going to lure a young NBA player to play in Milwaukee without overpaying him.

The issue for many of us in Milwaukee wasn't that we expected to land guys like Dwight, Chris Paul or even a Horford type in free agency.

The issue is that none of us would have wasted our time acquiring or resigning Drew Gooden, Miles Plumlee, John Salmons, Corey Maggette, old Richard Jefferson, etc, all of whom were huge contract liabilities from the day they were acquired.

As long as Weltman only has Hammond run the draft and do the rubber chicken circuit with the local YMCA banquets you'll be fine. Those are his two big strengths. If he's asked to be the chief visionary in acquiring and developing a roster, he's really bad at that.

Same goes with the guys you mentioned. Do you think they'd sign in Milwaukee if there was not a significant difference in salaries offered?

[paulpressey25]

Same goes with the guys you mentioned. Do you think they'd sign in Milwaukee if there was not a significant difference in salaries offered?

Again, we don't want those guys. If you are a small market team playing free agency is a fool's errand. Unless you are getting Durant in most cases NBA free agency means you're overpaying either role players or overpaying guys who are ppgz statz whores like Maggette who don't win you ballgames.

Bucks have never had an issue retaining key guys they wanted to keep whether it be Glenn Robinson, Ray Allen, Redd, Giannis, Bogut, etc.

[fendilim]

Same goes with the guys you mentioned. Do you think they'd sign in Milwaukee if there was not a significant difference in salaries offered?

Again, we don't want those guys. If you are a small market team playing free agency is a fool's errand. Unless you are getting Durant in most cases NBA free agency means you're overpaying either role players or overpaying guys who are ppgz statz whores like Maggette who don't win you ballgames.

Bucks have never had an issue retaining key guys they wanted to keep whether it be Glenn Robinson, Ray Allen, Redd, Giannis, Bogut, etc.

Retaining guys when you have more money to offer is never a problem. Attracting players to go play in Milwaukee is, thats why he only has the pick of the litter to choose from.

I'd give him the benefit of the doubt about free agency just yet.

Trades, yes. He sucks.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Not that he shouldn't be moved or that I wouldn't be for a change but That's an unfair statement.

What were your expectations of Nik as a throw in to the Howard trade to begin with? The first 3 years we were going to inevitably be bad and the players we've added haven't made us better. So how does that fall in Nik? We've been stagnant with every single player on this roster past and present.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Vucevic gets a bad rap here because for a long time he's been seen as the best player on a bad team. He's probably fine if he gets to be the third option, but that hasn't happened here.

Plus, he's just not Dwight Howard, which seems to be the vision many here have for a center - defensive anchor who covers for other's failures. That's also not his fault, but to many here it is unforgivable.

I defended him for a long time, but it's very difficult for me to do so anymore. He's limited at the defensive end because he lacks versatility and doesn't have the tools to excel as a defensive anchor. He has deteriorated offensively from a passable high-volume scorer into a significant liability. He seldom rim runs or fights for good position anymore. He sets lousy screens and calls for the ball when he is 15 feet from the basket. He wants to be the focal point of a pick and pop offense and whines publicly when his place on the team comes under threat. There was a time when he earned his touches, but he treats them as an entitlement now. He complained about coming off the bench. He complained about the Biyombo signing. He complained about making less than other players on the team. I'm not a proponent of change for the sake of change, but I'm about ready to see Vucevic shipped out. It would be great if we could get a legitimate asset back in return, but I wouldn't be too bothered if we didn't. We'd be no worse with him gone.

We're instantaneously worse with him gone if Biyombo is our starting center. Furthermore he should be making more than Biyombo, and he should've started over Biyombo considering he's better in every aspect of the game outside of blocking a shot, and being one of our best offensive players, he should be calling for the ball. I have no issues with him speaking on any of those things because the fact is people around here would be complaining if he didn't showing some competitive fire after being benched for an overpaid sack of potatoes in Bismack especially since that bum proved him right, so I'm glad he vocalized his displeasure considering he played just as hard off the bench as he did starting. (along with Elf).

[skones]

Same goes with the guys you mentioned. Do you think they'd sign in Milwaukee if there was not a significant difference in salaries offered?

Again, we don't want those guys. If you are a small market team playing free agency is a fool's errand. Unless you are getting Durant in most cases NBA free agency means you're overpaying either role players or overpaying guys who are ppgz statz whores like Maggette who don't win you ballgames.

Bucks have never had an issue retaining key guys they wanted to keep whether it be Glenn Robinson, Ray Allen, Redd, Giannis, Bogut, etc.

Retaining guys when you have more money to offer is never a problem. Attracting players to go play in Milwaukee is, thats why he only has the pick of the litter to choose from.

I'd give him the benefit of the doubt about free agency just yet.

Trades, yes. He sucks.

That's not the point. Free agency isn't the way to go about building a small to mid market franchise. The draft is. You go after young, cheap, talent and see if you can get a nice role player here or there. None of those guys classify as that, yet he's tying one hand behind his back with those signings year after year anyway. You're quite literally, ignoring all of the alternatives that were available in order to dumb down the point we're making.

Orlando is very much in a similar situation. Weather isn't going to suddenly make guys want to come to your team given the lack of success as of late. You've got a middling team right now as we have had throughout his tenure, the free agency problems are persistent.

[otownflava21]

Has he done is press conference yet??

Sent from my Z981 using RealGM mobile app