Tatum

[fendilim]

My problem with Tatum is his speed. I think that's also the reason why he is so bad on defense.

Other than that, I'd pick him any day over DSJ or Isaac.

[eyriq]

The Harris comparison is killing my buzz

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[OrlandoDream]

I don't see the Tobias Harris comparison. Aside from the fact they both light skin dudes, their games are different. I think a bunch of you just miss Tobes lol. Tatum's game is more like Paul Pierce and Danny Granger. He has that old school game which I like. If you want a Tobias Harris comparison then look no further than Myles Bridges. He plays more like Tobias then Tatum.

Their body types are different too. Tobias got that big upper body ala Melo whole Tatum is more lanky and agile. Their athleticism I think is about on the same level. In time, Tatum will be a solid defender. He has the length to disrupt shots. Let Vogel work with them.

He is more of a 3 then Isaac so that will play heavily into our decision making. However, Isaac was able to lock him up multiple times when FSU played Duke. Which again speaks to why people are so high on Isaacs defensive ability if he can lock down the best ISO scorer in college.

I didn't think Tatum would be available when we pick but it's looking more likely. I knew JI was gonna kill workouts and raise his name. I still think Suns snag Isaac at the 4. Makes too much sense.

Now the decision becomes that if we pick 6th and BOTH Tatum and DSJ are available, who do we take? My gut tells me Tatum but my heart wants DSJR. Since Rob is gone, emotional decisions are out the window so I expect Tatum to be paired up with AG.

[Knightro]

To break it down a little deeper...

Tatum at 19 is the vastly superior shooter to Harris at 19. Tatum shot .342 on college 3s on 117 attempts, whereas Harris shot .303 on 76 attempts. Harris was hardly a bad FT shooter at 75%, but Tatum is elite at 85%. 2PT% was basically even, 50% for Tatum to 49% for Harris. TS%, eFG% both far in favor of Tatum.

Tatum was the better passer (although more turnover prone) while Harris had the advantage in rebounding. Harris was 20 pounds heavier in college, which probably helped out battling on the glass.

Defensively the edge, at least statistically, goes to Tatum. Significantly more stocks (although more fouls as well), better DRtg, better DBPM, more defensive win shares.

To make a long story short Tatum at 19 >>>> Harris at 19.

If Tatum at 19 = Harris at 24, then it stands to reason that Tatum at 24 will be the far superior NBA player.

[MagicMatic]

Comparing Tatum to Harris is lazy. Harris wishes he was as mobile as Tatum.

[Skin]

Tatum was successful on ISO plays against college PFs. Is that going to translate when he plays against NBA level SFs or PFs?

[MagicMatic]

Tatum was successful on ISO plays against college PFs. Is that going to translate when he plays against NBA level SFs or PFs?

You can use that logic with every player in the draft. Tell me agin how Isaac will seemlessly fit into the SF position against NBA SFs.

[Skin]

Tatum was successful on ISO plays against college PFs. Is that going to translate when he plays against NBA level SFs or PFs?

You can use that logic with every player in the draft. Tell me agin how Isaac will seemlessly fit into the SF position against NBA SFs.

How do you use that logic with every player? I'm asking because Tatum will be transferring to a new position. Not every player will.

I don't want to bring Isaac into this because this is supposed to be about Tatum and the merits he stands on... but since you asked...

If Isaac is playing SF, most likely he will be playing off the ball. In catch and shoot situations, he'll have the length to shoot over most SFs. But he also has some tools in the bag where that isn't his only option. Admittingly, he'll have his biggest adjustment as an NBA SF, and I don't think that's the intent for any team who drafts him to play him there for most of his minutes (except maybe the Suns). Fortunately for him, he can defend 1-5 and play 3-5. His best future long term position is probably C when he starts to fill out his body. He's no where near his ceiling unlike Tatum who is much closer to his.

[MagicMatic]

Tatum was successful on ISO plays against college PFs. Is that going to translate when he plays against NBA level SFs or PFs?

You can use that logic with every player in the draft. Tell me agin how Isaac will seemlessly fit into the SF position against NBA SFs.

How do you use that logic with every player? I'm asking because Tatum will be transferring to a new position. Not every player will.

I don't want to bring Isaac into this because this is supposed to be about Tatum and the merits he stands on... but since you asked...

If Isaac is playing SF, most likely he will be playing off the ball. In catch and shoot situations, he'll have the length to shoot over most SFs. But he also has some tools in the bag where that isn't his only option. Admittingly, he'll have his biggest adjustment as an NBA SF, and I don't think that's the intent for any team who drafts him to play him there for most of his minutes (except maybe the Suns). Fortunately for him, he can defend 1-5 and play 3-5. His best future long term position is probably C when he starts to fill out his body. He's no where near his ceiling unlike Tatum who is much closer to his.

Tatum is a SF. He played in a small ball system at Duke. No scout has him listed as a PF, while at Duke, despite logging minutes guarding them in a positionless system. Isaac is a tweener. We know exactly what position Tatum is going to play. How did AG at the 3 argument work out for you? Is isaac you next hard sell?

What I mean by that statement is -
__"player"___ guarded ____"position"___ in college
How will
__"player"___guard____"position"____ in the NBA?

It's a statement that applies to all players and applies to offense as well.

[melasdas]

He must improve defense and catch& shoot situations.

Being iso scorer is cool, for first round exits. League really doesn't value iso scorers that much. His FG% and 3 point percentage are really not impressive, but his free trow percentage is encouraging.

Let's hope that he won't turn into dumbed down Melo, Rudy Gay type player.

Hey,

What player would you pick if you were our GM?

It's just curiosity

[Darth Magic]

Tatum was successful on ISO plays against college PFs. Is that going to translate when he plays against NBA level SFs or PFs?

Can you imagine teams trying to guard both Tatum and Aaron? If they put their small forward on Aaron, that means their power forward is on Tatum. He'll feast all day. If they switch it up and put their SF on Tatum and their PF on Aaron, then Aaron can beat him off the dribble and Tatum can post up the small forward.

[Skin]

You can use that logic with every player in the draft. Tell me agin how Isaac will seemlessly fit into the SF position against NBA SFs.

How do you use that logic with every player? I'm asking because Tatum will be transferring to a new position. Not every player will.

I don't want to bring Isaac into this because this is supposed to be about Tatum and the merits he stands on... but since you asked...

If Isaac is playing SF, most likely he will be playing off the ball. In catch and shoot situations, he'll have the length to shoot over most SFs. But he also has some tools in the bag where that isn't his only option. Admittingly, he'll have his biggest adjustment as an NBA SF, and I don't think that's the intent for any team who drafts him to play him there for most of his minutes (except maybe the Suns). Fortunately for him, he can defend 1-5 and play 3-5. His best future long term position is probably C when he starts to fill out his body. He's no where near his ceiling unlike Tatum who is much closer to his.

Tatum is a SF. He played in a small ball system at Duke. No scout has him listed as a PF, while at Duke, despite logging minutes guarding them in a positionless system. Isaac is a tweener. We know exactly what position Tatum is going to play. How did AG at the 3 argument work out for you? Is isaac you next hard sell?

What I mean by that statement is -
__"player"___ guarded ____"position"___ in college
How will
__"player"___guard____"position"____ in the NBA?

It's a statement that applies to all players and applies to offense as well.

Positions are an antiquated concept. You're completely missing the point.

If Tatum's calling card is the success he had in isolation versus college PFs, then that doesn't translate in the NBA where he'll face a position switch. Beating college PFs is a whole different ball game than beating NBA caliber SFs (arguably the elite of the league). ...and he won't have the same small ball advantages against NBA PFs either because the NBA game is more adapted to small ball than the college game is.

If you disagree then what's your explanation? Don't get mad. Debate.

[ralphie9898]

Seems like we ll pick between:

Tatum, Isaac and dsj , we already have topics on Isaac and dsj but couldn't find one on tatum

Read a lot of comments on tatum, to summarise, there is 2 knocks on him ( D and 3pt)


If tatum improves his D (which should only be down to will as he has the physical tools for it) and develop a legit 3pt (which shouldn't be a problem when you look at his ft%) , tatum would become a all star. Anyone agree on that, or am I missing something?

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Well fro one most people think Tatum will be gone by the time we pick. Also I would have to add Monk to that list of Isaac, and Dennis Smith. But of course if Fox or Tatum or even Josh Jackson fall to 6 they very well could be the pick as well but I am not counting on that.

[Skin]

Tatum was successful on ISO plays against college PFs. Is that going to translate when he plays against NBA level SFs or PFs?

Can you imagine teams trying to guard both Tatum and Aaron? If they put their small forward on Aaron, that means their power forward is on Tatum. He'll feast all day. If they switch it up and put their SF on Tatum and their PF on Aaron, then Aaron can beat him off the dribble and Tatum can post up the small forward.

So like the Bucks?

Parker on Aaron, Giannis on Tatum ... Tatum will feast all day?

Parker on Tatum and Giannis on Gordon... Aaron will beat Giannis off the dribble and Tatum will post up Parker? With Maker on the help defense.

Sixers?

Simmons on Aaron, Saric on Tatum ... Tatum will feast all day?

Saric on Tatum and Simmons on Gordon... Aaron will beat Simmons off the dribble and Tatum will post up Saric? With Embiid on the help defense.

Just trying to imagine our domination. Is this the right track?

[Skybox]

You can use that logic with every player in the draft. Tell me agin how Isaac will seemlessly fit into the SF position against NBA SFs.

How do you use that logic with every player? I'm asking because Tatum will be transferring to a new position. Not every player will.

I don't want to bring Isaac into this because this is supposed to be about Tatum and the merits he stands on... but since you asked...

If Isaac is playing SF, most likely he will be playing off the ball. In catch and shoot situations, he'll have the length to shoot over most SFs. But he also has some tools in the bag where that isn't his only option. Admittingly, he'll have his biggest adjustment as an NBA SF, and I don't think that's the intent for any team who drafts him to play him there for most of his minutes (except maybe the Suns). Fortunately for him, he can defend 1-5 and play 3-5. His best future long term position is probably C when he starts to fill out his body. He's no where near his ceiling unlike Tatum who is much closer to his.

Tatum is a SF. He played in a small ball system at Duke. No scout has him listed as a PF, while at Duke, despite logging minutes guarding them in a positionless system. Isaac is a tweener. We know exactly what position Tatum is going to play. How did AG at the 3 argument work out for you? Is isaac you next hard sell?

What I mean by that statement is -
__"player"___ guarded ____"position"___ in college
How will
__"player"___guard____"position"____ in the NBA?

It's a statement that applies to all players and applies to offense as well.

Tatum played PF and played like a traditional PF ( post iso's, mid range)...his skill is undeniable but I fear that he'll be too small for an NBA post PF and too slow for wing (star level, I mean - definitely not calling bust). If we get him, I'm down...just not the long term vision I'm liking. Tatum could score 20ppg and improve our wins by 5 (a la Carmelo). Unless AG starts draining 3's, I don't see how they complement, rather than crowd each other. Same concern about DSJ... phenomenal individual talent, but what is our team vision?

[MagicMatic]

How do you use that logic with every player? I'm asking because Tatum will be transferring to a new position. Not every player will.

I don't want to bring Isaac into this because this is supposed to be about Tatum and the merits he stands on... but since you asked...

If Isaac is playing SF, most likely he will be playing off the ball. In catch and shoot situations, he'll have the length to shoot over most SFs. But he also has some tools in the bag where that isn't his only option. Admittingly, he'll have his biggest adjustment as an NBA SF, and I don't think that's the intent for any team who drafts him to play him there for most of his minutes (except maybe the Suns). Fortunately for him, he can defend 1-5 and play 3-5. His best future long term position is probably C when he starts to fill out his body. He's no where near his ceiling unlike Tatum who is much closer to his.

Tatum is a SF. He played in a small ball system at Duke. No scout has him listed as a PF, while at Duke, despite logging minutes guarding them in a positionless system. Isaac is a tweener. We know exactly what position Tatum is going to play. How did AG at the 3 argument work out for you? Is isaac you next hard sell?

What I mean by that statement is -
__"player"___ guarded ____"position"___ in college
How will
__"player"___guard____"position"____ in the NBA?

It's a statement that applies to all players and applies to offense as well.

Positions are an antiquated concept. You're completely missing the point.

If Tatum's calling card is the success he had in isolation versus college PFs, then that doesn't translate in the NBA where he'll face a position switch. Beating college PFs is a whole different ball game than beating NBA caliber SFs (arguably the elite of the league). ...and he won't have the same small ball advantages against NBA PFs either because the NBA game is more adapted to small ball than the college game is.

If you disagree then what's your explanation? Don't get mad. Debate.

Who is getting mad? I didn't know you could sense my emotions over a message board.

When I say "position" I'm talking about players in defined positions.
Example- "Fox could guard point guards in college, but how will he guard point guards in the NBA" it applies to all prospects regardless of position. See the statement applies everywhere.

Yes positions are "antiquated" but are still relevant. Forwards are used in mismatch situations etc. You are telling me positions are antiquated then precede to tell me what Tatum did and didn't do in college positionally..hilarious. Isaac's position has been tossed around anywhere from 3-5 on the court - call his position whatever you want. He better hope he can hit 3s consistently because he will be bullied inside.

Back to Tatum and the rest of this draft. All three "wings" Jackson, Isaac, and Tatum are going to be compared endlessly until the day of the draft. To an extent we have information on what they all bring to the table now skill wise. However, you can't say a player like Isaac has a higher ceiling than Jackson or Tatum. It's all conjecture. He could also be a bust. Any of them could. So if you are going to hang your hat on Isaacs draftability focused on his potential, rather than his skill, I think it's a weak argument.

[Darth Magic]

Tatum was successful on ISO plays against college PFs. Is that going to translate when he plays against NBA level SFs or PFs?

Can you imagine teams trying to guard both Tatum and Aaron? If they put their small forward on Aaron, that means their power forward is on Tatum. He'll feast all day. If they switch it up and put their SF on Tatum and their PF on Aaron, then Aaron can beat him off the dribble and Tatum can post up the small forward.

So like the Bucks?

Parker on Aaron, Giannis on Tatum ... Tatum will feast all day?

Parker on Tatum and Giannis on Gordon... Aaron will beat Giannis off the dribble and Tatum will post up Parker? With Maker on the help defense.

Sixers?

Simmons on Aaron, Saric on Tatum ... Tatum will feast all day?

Saric on Tatum and Simmons on Gordon... Aaron will beat Simmons off the dribble and Tatum will post up Saric? With Embiid on the help defense.

Just trying to imagine our domination. Is this the right track?

With all due respect that's some weak minded thinking Skin. So a clear mismatch doesn't work because you can't use it on like 5 out of 30 NBA teams? It also means that we don't have a mismatch against those teams. We can switch and still defend those guys. I would take a mismatch against 25 NBA teams and a competitive match up against the other 5 all day every day. Clearly this is where the NBA is going and we have an opportunity to get on that train. Whether it's with Tatum or Issac the principles apply.

[MagicMatic]

How do you use that logic with every player? I'm asking because Tatum will be transferring to a new position. Not every player will.

I don't want to bring Isaac into this because this is supposed to be about Tatum and the merits he stands on... but since you asked...

If Isaac is playing SF, most likely he will be playing off the ball. In catch and shoot situations, he'll have the length to shoot over most SFs. But he also has some tools in the bag where that isn't his only option. Admittingly, he'll have his biggest adjustment as an NBA SF, and I don't think that's the intent for any team who drafts him to play him there for most of his minutes (except maybe the Suns). Fortunately for him, he can defend 1-5 and play 3-5. His best future long term position is probably C when he starts to fill out his body. He's no where near his ceiling unlike Tatum who is much closer to his.

Tatum is a SF. He played in a small ball system at Duke. No scout has him listed as a PF, while at Duke, despite logging minutes guarding them in a positionless system. Isaac is a tweener. We know exactly what position Tatum is going to play. How did AG at the 3 argument work out for you? Is isaac you next hard sell?

What I mean by that statement is -
__"player"___ guarded ____"position"___ in college
How will
__"player"___guard____"position"____ in the NBA?

It's a statement that applies to all players and applies to offense as well.

Tatum played PF and played like a traditional PF ( post iso's, mid range)...his skill is undeniable but I fear that he'll be too small for an NBA post PF and too slow for wing (star level, I mean - definitely not calling bust). If we get him, I'm down...just not the long term vision I'm liking. Tatum could score 20ppg and improve our wins by 5 (a la Carmelo). Unless AG starts draining 3's, I don't see how they complement, rather than crowd each other. Same concern about DSJ... phenomenal individual talent, but what is our team vision?

Don't be afraid- he's more of a 3/2 . He was playing within a small ball system in college and it seems to be a huge concern for a lot of people that don't understand it matter more for the team that drafts him.

[The_Answer]

Tatum plays virtually nothing like Tobias. I'm partially convinced that most people find that to be the appropriate comparison because he's a light-skinned, 6'8 forward.

In college, Tobias had limited to no countermoves and zero pull-up game, whereas Tatum has no shortage of those. Tobias is a very lazy comparison. If there's any current player he envisions, it's Gordon Hayward.

[PennytoShaq]

You can use that logic with every player in the draft. Tell me agin how Isaac will seemlessly fit into the SF position against NBA SFs.

How do you use that logic with every player? I'm asking because Tatum will be transferring to a new position. Not every player will.

I don't want to bring Isaac into this because this is supposed to be about Tatum and the merits he stands on... but since you asked...

If Isaac is playing SF, most likely he will be playing off the ball. In catch and shoot situations, he'll have the length to shoot over most SFs. But he also has some tools in the bag where that isn't his only option. Admittingly, he'll have his biggest adjustment as an NBA SF, and I don't think that's the intent for any team who drafts him to play him there for most of his minutes (except maybe the Suns). Fortunately for him, he can defend 1-5 and play 3-5. His best future long term position is probably C when he starts to fill out his body. He's no where near his ceiling unlike Tatum who is much closer to his.

Tatum is a SF. He played in a small ball system at Duke. No scout has him listed as a PF, while at Duke, despite logging minutes guarding them in a positionless system. Isaac is a tweener. We know exactly what position Tatum is going to play. How did AG at the 3 argument work out for you? Is isaac you next hard sell?

What I mean by that statement is -
__"player"___ guarded ____"position"___ in college
How will
__"player"___guard____"position"____ in the NBA?

It's a statement that applies to all players and applies to offense as well.

Between this post and your other one on comparing Tatum to Harris, you have become me from 3 months ago..lol. I agree with you, and just got sick of posting the same argument, so it is nice to see someone else taking up the slack.

Tatum and Gordon works well since Gordon can guard 3s. But I also think Isaac can start his career as a 3 who stretches the floor. He played the wing game at FSU like Tatum did at Duke, even though they were listed at PF. Both Isaac and Tatum have some question marks at the 3 spot, but Tatum looks like a guy who is more of a natural fit long term.

Isaac may have shown some things in his workouts though. We know Hammond wants guys who can play multiple positions. We know he can ID a guy who is long but still has handles. I am thinking that Isaac may be showing some more off the bounce skills than people will expect. Imagine if this guy is working out and showing that he has the skill to play SF, at least as a rookie while he puts on some weight. That may be why suddenly he is moving up the draft charts. It could be the case since Isaac had such a huge growth spurt. May have just taken him some time to get used to his new height.

Anyway, I think Tatum should be able to play the 3 full time in the NBA, but I have full confidence in our guys to sort that out.