The Official Jalen Suggs Thread

[MagicMatic]

His growth has been respectable. Starting to live up to his draft spot. He won't win DPOY but he should be an annual 6th Man of the Year candidate.

He starts so this makes no sense.

That’s like saying Donovan Mitchell would win sixth man of the year if he came off the bench. No ****.

Hahahaha you do make me laugh. I'm not talking about him winning 6th man this year. Just saying that's his ideal spot. He starts out of necessity and that is fine for now. He's doing his thing and showing big improvements.

Why? He’s clearly Orlando’s second or third best player and steers the defense. Paolo and the rest of the team say that he’s the heart and soul of the team.

That player doesn’t come off the bench despite what you believe and the hill you’re willing to die on.

This is the same **** people say when they can’t accept they were wrong about certain players after hot takes 1 season in.

“He’d be a better sixth man”
“He’s still not a good shooter”
“He’s still not a point guard based on the draft”
“He’s just now earning his draft spot”

Yeah, maybe you are just wrong and always have been?

Fine. I’ll play along. Who is taking Suggs starting spot if he’s coming off the bench as a sixth man in his ideal role as you claim?

[thelead]

Soon to be all-nba defender who also shoots 40% from deep on high volume = bench player

[Skin]

He starts so this makes no sense.

That’s like saying Donovan Mitchell would win sixth man of the year if he came off the bench. No ****.

Hahahaha you do make me laugh. I'm not talking about him winning 6th man this year. Just saying that's his ideal spot. He starts out of necessity and that is fine for now. He's doing his thing and showing big improvements.

Why? He’s clearly Orlando’s second or third best player and steers the defense. Paolo and the rest of the team say that he’s the heart and soul of the team.

That player doesn’t come off the bench despite what you believe and the hill you’re willing to die on.

This is the same **** people say when they can’t accept they were wrong about certain players after hot takes 1 season in.

“He’d be a better sixth man”
“He’s still not a good shooter”
“He’s still not a point guard based on the draft”
“He’s just now earning his draft spot”

Yeah, maybe you are just wrong and always have been?

Fine. I’ll play along. Who is taking Suggs starting spot if he’s coming off the bench as a sixth man in his ideal role as you claim?

Second best player now? Why do people have to do that? A guy starts to show improvement and all of sudden he gets touted to ridiculous levels.

I don't care about being right or wrong. I've been wrong plenty. But I've always said things about Suggs that were true. When people wanted to say he's our future PG, I could never see that. Always saw him as a SG. When he was bad, I called him bad. When he started showing improvement, I started crediting him for making improvements.

Do I see him as a starting SG on a championship team? I dunno... I still need to get there. But I do think he could be a 6th man on a championship caliber team.

Who would replace him? I can get creative as a make believe GM.

[MagicMatic]

Hahahaha you do make me laugh. I'm not talking about him winning 6th man this year. Just saying that's his ideal spot. He starts out of necessity and that is fine for now. He's doing his thing and showing big improvements.

Why? He’s clearly Orlando’s second or third best player and steers the defense. Paolo and the rest of the team say that he’s the heart and soul of the team.

That player doesn’t come off the bench despite what you believe and the hill you’re willing to die on.

This is the same **** people say when they can’t accept they were wrong about certain players after hot takes 1 season in.

“He’d be a better sixth man”
“He’s still not a good shooter”
“He’s still not a point guard based on the draft”
“He’s just now earning his draft spot”

Yeah, maybe you are just wrong and always have been?

Fine. I’ll play along. Who is taking Suggs starting spot if he’s coming off the bench as a sixth man in his ideal role as you claim?

Second best player now? Why do people have to do that? A guy starts to show improvement and all of sudden he gets touted to ridiculous levels.

I don't care about being right or wrong. I've been wrong plenty. But I've always said things about Suggs that were true. When people wanted to say he's our future PG, I could never see that. Always saw him as a SG. When he was bad, I called him bad. When he started showing improvement, I started crediting him for making improvements.

Do I see him as a starting SG on a championship team? I dunno... I still need to get there. But I do think he could be a 6th man on a championship caliber team.

Who would replace him? I can get creative as a make believe GM.

Go for it. Who is replacing him at shooting guard while he comes off the bench?

[Knightro]

If anything, Suggs should be playing more minutes than he currently does. Certainly not less.

And this is coming from someone who suggested he might be best suited coming off the bench at one point and was wrong about that.

[Skin]

Why? He’s clearly Orlando’s second or third best player and steers the defense. Paolo and the rest of the team say that he’s the heart and soul of the team.

That player doesn’t come off the bench despite what you believe and the hill you’re willing to die on.

This is the same **** people say when they can’t accept they were wrong about certain players after hot takes 1 season in.

“He’d be a better sixth man”
“He’s still not a good shooter”
“He’s still not a point guard based on the draft”
“He’s just now earning his draft spot”

Yeah, maybe you are just wrong and always have been?

Fine. I’ll play along. Who is taking Suggs starting spot if he’s coming off the bench as a sixth man in his ideal role as you claim?

Second best player now? Why do people have to do that? A guy starts to show improvement and all of sudden he gets touted to ridiculous levels.

I don't care about being right or wrong. I've been wrong plenty. But I've always said things about Suggs that were true. When people wanted to say he's our future PG, I could never see that. Always saw him as a SG. When he was bad, I called him bad. When he started showing improvement, I started crediting him for making improvements.

Do I see him as a starting SG on a championship team? I dunno... I still need to get there. But I do think he could be a 6th man on a championship caliber team.

Who would replace him? I can get creative as a make believe GM.

Go for it. Who is replacing him at shooting guard while he comes off the bench?

Better game.... who can we trade him for? Is he good enough to get any of these guys? If so, which ones?

Donovan Mitchell
Devin Booker
Anthony Edwards
Tyrese Maxey
Desmond Bane
Jaylen Brown
Dejounte Murray
Mikal Bridges
Devin Vassell
Shaedon Sharpe

[pepe1991]

There is funny, yet very interesting article named " why facts don't change our mind" and it can be translated into this thread.
People don't like to change their mind because our mind is very subjective & we are very good at finding context to our claims, yet very poor at admitting mistakes & being wrong.
I'll link article, it's 8-10 -ish min read but it's really brilliant text especially part when subject of text were critiquing own answers, without knowing it's their own.


https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds


Ditto to Suggs or any other player, or any other topic really, it's part of our human nature, that's why we have politics who are split between two spectrums.

I thought Suggs sucked in rookie year and didn't see much of potential. He proved to be more than i expected, now i'll try to expend upon new founded information and allow facts to actually -change my mind about him.
Suggs is good player. He isn't playmaker, okey. But good nba player. Hopefully he can continue with good shooting and expend his game on offense further.

Peace.

[JoshuaPotter]

If you look at the trajectory of an NBA point guard, I am not sure Suggs is that. Yet, watching him out there, I think he still has more offensive game to unlock. He just has way to many physical tools in the woodshed. Yes, dribbling doesn't appear to be one of them at least on like a Chris Paul level.

But we spent our 1st pick last season on a PG IMHO. So anything Suggs adds in additional playmaking is going to make the offense pop. Unless we see it come from Black / Howard / Suggs. Kinda a horse race. Hopefully the answer is "one of these".

[Skybox]

Do guys ever "become" PG's once they're in the NBA?

Honest question...nobody occurs to me. You have a whole generation of score-first ballhandlers now that maybe confuse the issue. Every youth team is full of Luka's & Trae's and some role players. I don't really see any pure PG's coming in...even a guy like Lamelo is something of a hybrid, but he might be the closest thing to a real PG since Lonzo.

[tiderulz]

Do guys ever "become" PG's once they're in the NBA?

Honest question...nobody occurs to me. You have a whole generation of score-first ballhandlers now that maybe confuse the issue. Every youth team is full of Luka's & Trae's and some role players. I don't really see any pure PG's coming in...even a guy like Lamelo is something of a hybrid, but he might be the closest thing to a real PG since Lonzo.

what do you mean by "become a PG" in the NBA? and what is your definition of a "pure PG"?

[MagicMatic]

Second best player now? Why do people have to do that? A guy starts to show improvement and all of sudden he gets touted to ridiculous levels.

I don't care about being right or wrong. I've been wrong plenty. But I've always said things about Suggs that were true. When people wanted to say he's our future PG, I could never see that. Always saw him as a SG. When he was bad, I called him bad. When he started showing improvement, I started crediting him for making improvements.

Do I see him as a starting SG on a championship team? I dunno... I still need to get there. But I do think he could be a 6th man on a championship caliber team.

Who would replace him? I can get creative as a make believe GM.

Go for it. Who is replacing him at shooting guard while he comes off the bench?

Better game.... who can we trade him for? Is he good enough to get any of these guys? If so, which ones?

Donovan Mitchell
Devin Booker
Anthony Edwards
Tyrese Maxey
Desmond Bane
Jaylen Brown
Dejounte Murray
Mikal Bridges
Devin Vassell
Shaedon Sharpe

It's funny that you listed a bunch of stars in a trade for "a sixth man". So you don't value Suggs highly, but think he's giving us this return?

Every guy you listed will cost more assets. Why? Because they are 10x more expensive on salary alone and some of these guys are considered nearly 'untouchable' like Booker and Edwards.

Not only that, but most are established names. Suggs is not getting half of these guys back in a 1:1 return and I''d argue that moving him now doesn't necessarily make Orlando better in terms of chemistry and contribute to the identity they've established. Sharpe shouldn't even be on this list. Portland is giving US assets for trading Suggs for him. Vassell is probably the closest in value after Suggs is paid. Even then, you are sacrificing defense for offense and Im sure SA feels the same way about him that ORL feels about Suggs.

So to answer your question... I'd rather have Suggs without giving up multiple 1st round picks and trying to match salary filler with more assets. We are in year 3 with him and he still has potential.

[OrlChamps2030]

Suggs next deal will lead to some spicy debates around here

[eyriq]

Suggs next deal will lead to some spicy debates around here

Can't wait. I think I'm in the $26-32M AAV range

[JoshuaPotter]

Suggs next deal will lead to some spicy debates around here

Can't wait. I think I'm in the $26-32M AAV range

It all depends, what will he become? Currently he is trending towards being a low scoring 3rd option and best defensive player.

I won't say that he is the 2nd best player on the team. There is an argument though that it's a tie as all sorts of stats still show Franz is amazing regardless of any "eye test" done by posters.

[tiderulz]

Suggs next deal will lead to some spicy debates around here

Can't wait. I think I'm in the $26-32M AAV range

It all depends, what will he become? Currently he is trending towards being a low scoring 3rd option and best defensive player.

I won't say that he is the 2nd best player on the team. There is an argument though that it's a tie as all sorts of stats still show Franz is amazing regardless of any "eye test" done by posters.

3rd option, best defensive player, around 15 ppg avg who can go higher on a given night. nothing wrong with that type of player

[Skin]

Go for it. Who is replacing him at shooting guard while he comes off the bench?

Better game.... who can we trade him for? Is he good enough to get any of these guys? If so, which ones?

Donovan Mitchell
Devin Booker
Anthony Edwards
Tyrese Maxey
Desmond Bane
Jaylen Brown
Dejounte Murray
Mikal Bridges
Devin Vassell
Shaedon Sharpe

It's funny that you listed a bunch of stars in a trade for "a sixth man". So you don't value Suggs highly, but think he's giving us this return?

Every guy you listed will cost more assets. Why? Because they are 10x more expensive on salary alone and some of these guys are considered nearly 'untouchable' like Booker and Edwards.

Not only that, but most are established names. Suggs is not getting half of these guys back in a 1:1 return and I''d argue that moving him now doesn't necessarily make Orlando better in terms of chemistry and contribute to the identity they've established. Sharpe shouldn't even be on this list. Portland is giving US assets for trading Suggs for him. Vassell is probably the closest in value after Suggs is paid. Even then, you are sacrificing defense for offense and Im sure SA feels the same way about him that ORL feels about Suggs.

So to answer your question... I'd rather have Suggs without giving up multiple 1st round picks and trying to match salary filler with more assets. We are in year 3 with him and he still has potential.

Happy to hear your reply! Glad you agree that Suggs is not in this caliber as a player. These are the types of players who I think would take us into true contender levels. I didn't even bother to list guys like SGA, Luka, PG, Beal, etc who are on contenders but are untouchable or out of our timeline. Suggs isn't even in the top half of the league in terms of starting SG value. You even admitted that we would have to add multiple 1sts to get there.

I did throw a couple of pet cats in there in Vassell and Sharpe. I would trade Suggs for Vassell in a snap and if POR would give us Sharpe AND MORE, hell yeah I'd take that offer too (but that would never happen).

But the bottom line is you helped to prove my point. Suggs is not at this level. He doesn't have that value. Maybe one day he'll get there, and I'll give him credit if he does... but he's not there right now. Believe it or not, I've come a long ways from where I used to be on him. His improved play has changed my opinion on him. I think he could be a starting SG for a contender, but he would not be the 3rd option on one. Certainly not our #2 option. If he was a starting SG on a contender then we would probably have to need a star at PG. A 4th option is pretty much a solid role player on any contender. That's where I see him.

[MagicMatic]

Better game.... who can we trade him for? Is he good enough to get any of these guys? If so, which ones?

Donovan Mitchell
Devin Booker
Anthony Edwards
Tyrese Maxey
Desmond Bane
Jaylen Brown
Dejounte Murray
Mikal Bridges
Devin Vassell
Shaedon Sharpe

It's funny that you listed a bunch of stars in a trade for "a sixth man". So you don't value Suggs highly, but think he's giving us this return?

Every guy you listed will cost more assets. Why? Because they are 10x more expensive on salary alone and some of these guys are considered nearly 'untouchable' like Booker and Edwards.

Not only that, but most are established names. Suggs is not getting half of these guys back in a 1:1 return and I''d argue that moving him now doesn't necessarily make Orlando better in terms of chemistry and contribute to the identity they've established. Sharpe shouldn't even be on this list. Portland is giving US assets for trading Suggs for him. Vassell is probably the closest in value after Suggs is paid. Even then, you are sacrificing defense for offense and Im sure SA feels the same way about him that ORL feels about Suggs.

So to answer your question... I'd rather have Suggs without giving up multiple 1st round picks and trying to match salary filler with more assets. We are in year 3 with him and he still has potential.

Happy to hear your reply! Glad you agree that Suggs is not in this caliber as a player. These are the types of players who I think would take us into true contender levels. I didn't even bother to list guys like SGA, Luka, PG, Beal, etc who are on contenders but are untouchable or out of our timeline. Suggs isn't even in the top half of the league in terms of starting SG value. You even admitted that we would have to add multiple 1sts to get there.

I did throw a couple of pet cats in there in Vassell and Sharpe. I would trade Suggs for Vassell in a snap and if POR would give us Sharpe AND MORE, hell yeah I'd take that offer too (but that would never happen).

But the bottom line is you helped to prove my point. Suggs is not at this level. He doesn't have that value. Maybe one day he'll get there, and I'll give him credit if he does... but he's not there right now. Believe it or not, I've come a long ways from where I used to be on him. His improved play has changed my opinion on him. I think he could be a starting SG for a contender, but he would not be the 3rd option on one. Certainly not our #2 option. If he was a starting SG on a contender then we would probably have to need a star at PG. A 4th option is pretty much a solid role player on any contender. That's where I see him.

Look how fast those goalposts moved!

The list was “ who can we trade him for? Is he good enough to get any of these guys?”

to

Is Jalen Suggs better than any of these guys? And if not I’m proving my point for a guy I was 100% wrong about 1.5 seasons ago and now comparing him against multi time allstars && dudes 8 seasons into their careers.

I even gave you Vassell. I also don’t think he’s anywhere close to Suggs defensively. I watch the Spurs quite often. You willing to trade Suggs for fkn Sharpe tell me all I need to know about how you view defense or understand what he means to this teams identity to winning basketball games when he’s out.

I didn’t prove your point. You proved MY point. You are drawing ridiculous hypotheticals without basis of salary cap and deal framework saying Suggs doesn’t equal a list of allstars. Even Vassell is a year ahead of Suggs and their numbers were similar in year 3 even if you don’t adjust for defense.

And yeah, Franz has fallen off a cliff for us offensively in the last 6-8 games so it’s not as far fetched as you’d imagine to say Suggs is up there in level of importance. The team looks like **** when he’s not on the floor with the starters.

[Skybox]

Do guys ever "become" PG's once they're in the NBA?

Honest question...nobody occurs to me. You have a whole generation of score-first ballhandlers now that maybe confuse the issue. Every youth team is full of Luka's & Trae's and some role players. I don't really see any pure PG's coming in...even a guy like Lamelo is something of a hybrid, but he might be the closest thing to a real PG since Lonzo.

what do you mean by "become a PG" in the NBA? and what is your definition of a "pure PG"?

Traditional PG skills...Chris Paul, Tyus Jones, John Stockton. Running an offense, primary ball handler most every time down, generally racking up assists and putting teammates in advantageous situations. People have talked about Suggs and AB "developing" those skills, but I'm thinking those types of instincts and vision are developed WAY before the NBA...certainly anything can be improved, but I don't think that kind of player comes out of nowhere...like a guy who's shooting improves over the summer could.

*Maybe not that big a deal as the traditional PG role has changed so much to include more scoring, but efficiently running PnR, keeping turnovers down, and getting good shots for others is certainly not obsolete. I'm not really coming up with examples of non-pjs who "become" PGs...more likely a lifelong PG finds he can't keep up in the NBA and adapts to a different role. PG is kind of a way of life

[tiderulz]

Do guys ever "become" PG's once they're in the NBA?

Honest question...nobody occurs to me. You have a whole generation of score-first ballhandlers now that maybe confuse the issue. Every youth team is full of Luka's & Trae's and some role players. I don't really see any pure PG's coming in...even a guy like Lamelo is something of a hybrid, but he might be the closest thing to a real PG since Lonzo.

what do you mean by "become a PG" in the NBA? and what is your definition of a "pure PG"?

Traditional PG skills...Chris Paul, Tyus Jones, John Stockton. Running an offense, primary ball handler most every time down, generally racking up assists and putting teammates in advantageous situations. People have talked about Suggs and AB "developing" those skills, but I'm thinking those types of instincts and vision are developed WAY before the NBA...certainly anything can be improved, but I don't think that kind of player comes out of nowhere...like a guy who's shooting improves over the summer could.

*Maybe not that big a deal as the traditional PG role has changed so much to include more scoring, but efficiently running PnR, keeping turnovers down, and getting good shots for others is certainly not obsolete. I'm not really coming up with examples of non-pjs who "become" PGs...more likely a lifelong PG finds he can't keep up in the NBA and adapts to a different role. PG is kind of a way of life

except basketball evolves. Patrick Ewing is a HOF'r, but would be a bench guy in today's NBA. Traditional PG skills means old school and that doesnt really work anymore, just like you dont build a team like the old days. You now dont need a PG to always be the primary ball handler, that falls to the best initiator, which could be any position. Jokic for example for Denver.

[Skin]

It's funny that you listed a bunch of stars in a trade for "a sixth man". So you don't value Suggs highly, but think he's giving us this return?

Every guy you listed will cost more assets. Why? Because they are 10x more expensive on salary alone and some of these guys are considered nearly 'untouchable' like Booker and Edwards.

Not only that, but most are established names. Suggs is not getting half of these guys back in a 1:1 return and I''d argue that moving him now doesn't necessarily make Orlando better in terms of chemistry and contribute to the identity they've established. Sharpe shouldn't even be on this list. Portland is giving US assets for trading Suggs for him. Vassell is probably the closest in value after Suggs is paid. Even then, you are sacrificing defense for offense and Im sure SA feels the same way about him that ORL feels about Suggs.

So to answer your question... I'd rather have Suggs without giving up multiple 1st round picks and trying to match salary filler with more assets. We are in year 3 with him and he still has potential.

Happy to hear your reply! Glad you agree that Suggs is not in this caliber as a player. These are the types of players who I think would take us into true contender levels. I didn't even bother to list guys like SGA, Luka, PG, Beal, etc who are on contenders but are untouchable or out of our timeline. Suggs isn't even in the top half of the league in terms of starting SG value. You even admitted that we would have to add multiple 1sts to get there.

I did throw a couple of pet cats in there in Vassell and Sharpe. I would trade Suggs for Vassell in a snap and if POR would give us Sharpe AND MORE, hell yeah I'd take that offer too (but that would never happen).

But the bottom line is you helped to prove my point. Suggs is not at this level. He doesn't have that value. Maybe one day he'll get there, and I'll give him credit if he does... but he's not there right now. Believe it or not, I've come a long ways from where I used to be on him. His improved play has changed my opinion on him. I think he could be a starting SG for a contender, but he would not be the 3rd option on one. Certainly not our #2 option. If he was a starting SG on a contender then we would probably have to need a star at PG. A 4th option is pretty much a solid role player on any contender. That's where I see him.

Look how fast those goalposts moved!

The list was “ who can we trade him for? Is he good enough to get any of these guys?”

to

Is Jalen Suggs better than any of these guys? And if not I’m proving my point for a guy I was 100% wrong about 1.5 seasons ago and now comparing him against multi time allstars && dudes 8 seasons into their careers.

I even gave you Vassell. I also don’t think he’s anywhere close to Suggs defensively. I watch the Spurs quite often. You willing to trade Suggs for fkn Sharpe tell me all I need to know about how you view defense or understand what he means to this teams identity to winning basketball games when he’s out.

I didn’t prove your point. You proved MY point. You are drawing ridiculous hypotheticals without basis of salary cap and deal framework saying Suggs doesn’t equal a list of allstars. Even Vassell is a year ahead of Suggs and their numbers were similar in year 3 even if you don’t adjust for defense.

And yeah, Franz has fallen off a cliff for us offensively in the last 6-8 games so it’s not as far fetched as you’d imagine to say Suggs is up there in level of importance. The team looks like **** when he’s not on the floor with the starters.

I got you so bad bro. You wanted to believe that Suggs was our 2nd best player a few posts ago and are already backtracking. You got mad when I said that Suggs wasn't a starting caliber SG on a true contender and when you proved me right, that he's not even in the top half of the league, instead of having a debate on the player you got all fussy trying to make this more a personal attack. I love posters like you who get all riled up so easily and turn to personal agendas instead of keeping to basketball talk when you start losing a debate. Trying to make a point about me being wrong in the past is too funny. I just said I don't care. I never claim to be perfect, but you trying to make it a thing just cracks me up. Besides, I've always been right in my opinion of him. Called out his weaknesses, noted his strengths, been honest about his value. Guys like you make it fun around here for sure. It's boring when people just feed 100% homerism into every post and stroke each other's egos while wearing Orlando Magic jersey's behind their keyboards. So thanks