The Franz Wagner Thread

NavalAviator94 · Post #21 » by **NavalAviator94** » Sat Oct 22, 2022 12:04 am

Nice seeing Cole get some good bounces

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

MasterGMer · Post #22 » by **MasterGMer** » Sat Oct 22, 2022 3:21 am

I think Cole is going to start for a while. Who do you think will handle the ball walking to the front court in this case? Cole? Or Franz?

I agree, Franz needs to play point. But that doesn't limit his aggressiveness with the ball. He needs to be in attack mode.

I am expecting big things with this scheme

KillMonger · Post #23 » by **KillMonger** » Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:55 am

There needs to be more balance between Franz the initiator and Franz the scorer.... Don't know how you start so well and not continue to be aggressive

Sent from my [Galaxy Note 23 ultra super duper max] using RealGM mobile app

adamy35 · Post #24 » by **adamy35** » Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:35 pm

I think he will be somewhere between Perennial All-Star and High-end Starter.

He's a really solid and important piece to this team's future. Right now, we are asking him to play outside of what he should have to be for this team, so things will be up and down for him until we have legit point guards running the offense. He's fine as an every once in a while initiator.

He's a #3 on a championship team. Paolo is a #1. We need to find a number 2 or 1b, and this team will be very good.

jezzerinho · Post #25 » by **jezzerinho** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:45 pm

Right now, EPM (the player metric I personally think is the most accurate) ranks Franz Wagner:

5th of all NBA Small Forwards.

EPM considers Tatum a SF, if not for that Franzchise would be 4th. Ahead of him are Tatum, Kawhi, Jimmy Butler and Cam Johnson (who could also be considered a PF)

Franz leads a tier below these four, with guys just below him like J. Brown (also classed as a SF), Ingram, DDR and Anunoby.

When you consider he's the youngest of that group BY MILES, not to mention the least experienced in the NBA, there's just no doubt in my mind his ceiling can be way beyond the self-assured role player stereotype he sometimes gets.
This idea Paolo is the set-in-stone No.1 option for the Magic is tenuous to my mind. Nice problem to have!

Franzchise is doing it with such class and professionalism too. Imagine where he'd be ranked if he didn't have to spend a chunk of the early season in unfamiliar roles.

It's a very weird sensation to be a Magic fan and be excited. But this kid has me very optimistic for this cursed franchise.

JoshuaPotter · Post #26 » by **JoshuaPotter** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:56 pm

jezzerinho wrote:Right now, EPM (the player metric I personally think is the most accurate) ranks Franz Wagner:

5th of all NBA Small Forwards.

EPM considers Tatum a SF, if not for that Franzchise would be 4th. Ahead of him are Tatum, Kawhi, Jimmy Butler and Cam Johnson (who could also be considered a PF)

Franz leads a tier below these four, with guys just below him like J. Brown (also classed as a SF), Ingram, DDR and Anunoby.

When you consider he's the youngest of that group BY MILES, not to mention the least experienced in the NBA, there's just no doubt in my mind his ceiling can be way beyond the self-assured role player stereotype he sometimes gets.
This idea Paolo is the set-in-stone No.1 option for the Magic is tenuous to my mind. Nice problem to have!

Franzchise is doing it with such class and professionalism too. Imagine where he'd be ranked if he didn't have to spend a chunk of the early season in unfamiliar roles.

It's a very weird sensation to be a Magic fan and be excited. But this kid has me very optimistic for this cursed franchise.

Very thoughtful post for someone like me who isn't sure how to rank Franz and isn't answering the poll.

Post #27 » by **eyriq** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:15 pm

I voted perennial all-star. In this scenario he'll be one of the best playmaking forwards in the league and the Magic one of the best teams in the league for a long time. I like it!

Audi · Post #28 » by **Audi** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:37 pm

jezzerinho wrote:Right now, EPM (the player metric I personally think is the most accurate) ranks Franz Wagner:

5th of all NBA Small Forwards.

EPM considers Tatum a SF, if not for that Franzchise would be 4th. Ahead of him are Tatum, Kawhi, Jimmy Butler and Cam Johnson (who could also be considered a PF)

Franz leads a tier below these four, with guys just below him like J. Brown (also classed as a SF), Ingram, DDR and Anunoby.

When you consider he's the youngest of that group BY MILES, not to mention the least experienced in the NBA, there's just no doubt in my mind his ceiling can be way beyond the self-assured role player stereotype he sometimes gets.
This idea Paolo is the set-in-stone No.1 option for the Magic is tenuous to my mind. Nice problem to have!

Franzchise is doing it with such class and professionalism too. Imagine where he'd be ranked if he didn't have to spend a chunk of the early season in unfamiliar roles.

It's a very weird sensation to be a Magic fan and be excited. But this kid has me very optimistic for this cursed franchise.

He's fourth in RPM too.

Optimus_Steel · Post #29 » by **Optimus_Steel** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:13 pm

I feel really fortunate that we drafted Franz. This is what happens when you draft skill over measurements.

thelead · Post #30 » by **thelead** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:29 pm

The poll is a little weird. HoF is essentially the same thing as a perennial all-star. And if you're not a perennial all-star but a 1 or 2 time all-star that wins a championship in your prime, you're also likely headed to the HoF.

In any event, he will likely be a perennial all-star. Too good, at his age, with the right tools and mindset not to be.

jezzerinho · Post #31 » by **jezzerinho** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:45 pm

thelead wrote:The poll is a little weird. HoF is essentially the same thing as a perennial all-star. And if you're not a perennial all-star but a 1 or 2 time all-star that wins a championship in your prime, you're also likely headed to the HoF.

In any event, he will likely be a perennial all-star. Too good, at his age, with the right tools and mindset not to be.

I just resurrected an old thread that had the poll already to update on Franz' incredible progress. Agree its a bit weird, but it's amazing how more positive I feel about that poll after only a few months.

tooler · Post #32 » by **tooler** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:09 pm

Watch on YouTube

This video is excellent. I'm shocked how good it is. It's also worth watching for a discussion of his current limitations.

I agree with him at the moment that his ceiling is below superstar, but I also know I need to stop putting a ceiling on him. Not because it's unlimited but because he continues to raise it in surprising ways.

Franz is just so versatile and so good. Give him the ball or don't. We can plug him in anywhere and he's a net positive.

Post #33 » by **eyriq** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:53 pm

Yeah, that is a great video. I laughed hard at the consecutive bricked three pointers robbing Franz of some beautiful dimes!

RookieStar · Post #34 » by **RookieStar** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:40 pm

Can someone rename this thread properly? We all know " Boogie " is really Doggie's love child/reincarnation in the league about top lead us to the championship like what he did before during the Dwight years..

richi_v25 · Post #35 » by **richi_v25** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:23 pm

OnlyFranz aka Boogie is so underrated but that's ok as a Magic fan it's normal. When we drafted him I never would have thought almost all star i was just hoping for a decent bench player at 8.

jezzerinho · Post #36 » by **jezzerinho** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:36 pm

richi_v25 wrote:OnlyFranz aka Boogie is so underrated but that's ok as a Magic fan it's normal. When we drafted him I never would have thought almost all star i was just hoping for a decent bench player at 8.

He was booed in the Amway when the pick was announced.

Suggs brought the roof down.

Ironic.

Last Guardian · Post #37 » by **Last Guardian** » Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:38 am

Optimus_Steel wrote:I feel really fortunate that we drafted Franz. This is what happens when you draft skill over measurements.

We kind of drafted both with him though. He really knows how to take advantage of being 6’10 perimeter guy. Not the passer Hedo was but much better at using his height to score.

ogmagicfan · Post #38 » by **ogmagicfan** » Sat Jan 21, 2023 11:51 am

The thing that Franz has worked on the most that has impressed me is that he's more aggressive/isn't passive like last season. Really great to see.

We just need him to get his rebound numbers up badly!

If both him & Paolo are going to be below avg rebounders for their position, we're going to need great rebounding guards & a very strong rebounding center. I'm not sure Wendell is the center to provide that great rebounding presence at center to make up for it.

Only example I can think of a team with weak rebounders at both forward positions is the Grizz (Brooks & Jackson) and Ja is a great rebounding PG and Adams is one of the best rebounders in the NBA

Skybox · Post #39 » by **Skybox** » Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:30 pm

ogmagicfan wrote:The thing that Franz has worked on the most that has impressed me is that he's more aggressive/isn't passive like last season. Really great to see.

We just need him to get his rebound numbers up badly!

If both him & Paolo are going to be below avg rebounders for their position, we're going to need great rebounding guards & a very strong rebounding center. I'm not sure Wendell is the center to provide that great rebounding presence at center to make up for it.

Only example I can think of a team with weak rebounders at both forward positions is the Grizz (Brooks & Jackson) and Ja is a great rebounding PG and Adams is one of the best rebounders in the NBA

THIS /\ is why I am often including WCJ in trade proposals. He's a GREAT player, IMO...but maybe not the best fit. A much lesser (overall) player like Adams, might provide rebounding, enough positional defense, and bone-rattling picks and be more than enough for our frontcourt. Center is of lesser importance if you have forwards like ours and we can find a real scoring threat for our backcourt. We don't need (or want?) a big 4 offensively. A role playing adequate C like Poeltl or Adams would be fine...especially if we could flip WCJ for a guy like Simons to put up 20ppg and shoot 40% from 3.

tooler · Post #40 » by **tooler** » Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:23 pm

Ladies and gentlemen, we've done it. We've found something Franz is bad at. (I'm kidding, he has plenty of weaknesses.)

Read on Twitter

He's our primary scorer in the 4th quarter -- and he's awesome at 60% true shooting in the quarter overall -- but that means teams finally start to key on him late in the quarter. The Utah game was a perfect example. I think Paolo will eventually grow into the role but he has a lot to learn first.

Keep in mind these are noisy stats (basically 6% of his shots for the year). Franz is a competitor so I suspect he's taking it all in.

What is Franz’s ceiling?