Make a trade or we call for your job!

[eyriq]

ESPN did a future power rankings a while back and ranked our front office bottom 5. There is real concern about their ability to lead the organization's direction and player development strategies.

As long as the team is trending up in win% though we won't see any changes, and in fact their grade will improve. If the team is improving, the why won't matter as much.

[Rainwater]

I think this is a little over blown. While I do understand the frustration and agree moves need to be made soon, I have no clue how Paolo and Franz feel. They typically say they love their guys. And considering it’s only 3 years into a rebuild the Magic organization are doing really well. Nobody thought they would be this good at this point, most aren’t winning at 21 and 22. I think everything will be fine.

[BadMofoPimp]

You also cannot win deals if you never make deals. Smooth brained logic.

Orlando is being led by a bunch of young dudes and has a supporting cast of guys that are either also very young or completely washed up.

The idea is that you want the young guys surrounded by talent so that they aren’t struggling and tasked with doing more than necessary to win games while developing. Weltman does neither Franz or Paolo any favors rolling out a roster that has trouble scoring on any above average defense. You can’t “develop out of” a flawed roster with all the same shortcomings. If anything you are making it more difficult.

100...Paolo and Franz' age is basically no longer relevant. They are here and ready. The fact that they are very young is ONLY a happy bonus, giving us a larger window to work with. Slowing the train because of their birthdates is absolutely without logic. THEY do not need patience. They will get better, but they do not need time on the JV. We are very lucky to strike gold so early and twice. This season is now a waste...a great success, but relatively speaking - could have been more.

what's the saying? "The good is often the enemy of the best"...Weltman congratulating himself & everybody on the season because the bar was so low. Doesn't mean we won't get there, but it's still malpractice to not get there sooner if F&P are ahead of schedule.

Exactly how I feel about it. Paolo & Franz being ahead of schedule is great, but just because we keep overperforming doesn't mean we should continue to sit pat when there are clear deficiencies on our team, and have been deficiencies since Dwight has left. Shooting & PG play.

Even if we got a Tyus Jones/Monte Morris level PG this offseason & a shooter off the bench, we could have been looking at 50+ wins and confidently top 5 seed in the East. While getting to see our team with actual normal NBA spacing to better evaluate our team and it wouldnt even cost anything to compromise our flexibility for future years.

It can be debatable that Tyus is even better than Fultz.

[MagicMatic]

100...Paolo and Franz' age is basically no longer relevant. They are here and ready. The fact that they are very young is ONLY a happy bonus, giving us a larger window to work with. Slowing the train because of their birthdates is absolutely without logic. THEY do not need patience. They will get better, but they do not need time on the JV. We are very lucky to strike gold so early and twice. This season is now a waste...a great success, but relatively speaking - could have been more.

what's the saying? "The good is often the enemy of the best"...Weltman congratulating himself & everybody on the season because the bar was so low. Doesn't mean we won't get there, but it's still malpractice to not get there sooner if F&P are ahead of schedule.

Exactly how I feel about it. Paolo & Franz being ahead of schedule is great, but just because we keep overperforming doesn't mean we should continue to sit pat when there are clear deficiencies on our team, and have been deficiencies since Dwight has left. Shooting & PG play.

Even if we got a Tyus Jones/Monte Morris level PG this offseason & a shooter off the bench, we could have been looking at 50+ wins and confidently top 5 seed in the East. While getting to see our team with actual normal NBA spacing to better evaluate our team and it wouldnt even cost anything to compromise our flexibility for future years.

It can be debatable that Tyus is even better than Fultz.

Do teams scheme defensively against the Wizards the same way they do against Orlando with Fultz?

[BadMofoPimp]

Exactly how I feel about it. Paolo & Franz being ahead of schedule is great, but just because we keep overperforming doesn't mean we should continue to sit pat when there are clear deficiencies on our team, and have been deficiencies since Dwight has left. Shooting & PG play.

Even if we got a Tyus Jones/Monte Morris level PG this offseason & a shooter off the bench, we could have been looking at 50+ wins and confidently top 5 seed in the East. While getting to see our team with actual normal NBA spacing to better evaluate our team and it wouldnt even cost anything to compromise our flexibility for future years.

It can be debatable that Tyus is even better than Fultz.

Do teams scheme defensively against the Wizards the same way they do against Orlando with Fultz?

Would Tyus even remotely have the ball nearly as much in his hands as much as he does in Washington?

Players on bad teams always look better than they would on good teams. Smart move by Weltman not taking the bait.

[MagicMatic]

It can be debatable that Tyus is even better than Fultz.

Do teams scheme defensively against the Wizards the same way they do against Orlando with Fultz?

Would Tyus even remotely have the ball nearly as much in his hands as much as he does in Washington?

Players on bad teams always look better than they would on good teams. Smart move by Weltman not taking the bait.

Doesn’t matter.

Tyus can shoot a basketball and run a pick and roll because of that. Everyone benefits more in that situation at the expense of minimal assets. The floor opens more.

What’s your alternative? Keep Fultz until he expires or offer him some 1+1 deal to remain injury prone and less effective?

The only argument to be made against it is if you view this years late first round pick in a bad draft more than Paolo/Franz having a better postseason experience in important development time.

[Knightro]

This front office has just shown no real desire or ability to do or accomplish anything other than stall and delay.

There’s been basically zero attempts to even work the margins at all.

[MagicMatic]

I don’t really care how Paolo and Franz feel in the moment. They are under contract for the foreseeable future.

HOWEVER

The front office has not helped them this year whatsoever in their development. Everyone can plainly see what the major issues are plaguing this roster composition. Those issues will not be solved by “waiting” or some unforeseen “development” of players lacking the appropriate skill sets.

They have already squandered this season’s ceiling despite the better results due in large part to Suggs/Paolo/Franz expected leap in development and better health overall. I say squandered because there were moves and decisions that could have been made to alleviate problems in the offense and depth.

Assets were wasted prior to the start of this season and there is no arguing that.

[BadMofoPimp]

Do teams scheme defensively against the Wizards the same way they do against Orlando with Fultz?

Would Tyus even remotely have the ball nearly as much in his hands as much as he does in Washington?

Players on bad teams always look better than they would on good teams.

Doesn’t matter.

Tyus can shoot a basketball and run a pick and roll because of that. Everyone benefits more in that situation at the expense of minimal assets. The floor opens more.

What’s your alternative? Keep Fultz until he expires or offer him some 1+1 deal to remain injury prone and less effective?

The only argument to be made against it is if you view this years late first round pick in a bad draft more than Paolo/Franz having a better postseason experience in important development time.

I reckon the Wizards were asking for too much for Tyus. If so, Smart move by Weltman not taking the bait.

[SOUL]

We already have some threads with the same topic bro.

[SOUL]

Actually, on second thought I'll just merge it since you clearly spent some time with the post.

[Bensational]

The only wash rinse repeat going on is people constantly wanting player turnover. People have wanted to move Ingles and Isaac who are two of our most impactful players. People were upset we didn’t make a move for Jordan Poole. They were upset we didn’t blow $40M a season on FVV to lead us to a late lottery pick like Houston.

Anyone would think we were underperforming instead of being in contention for the 6th seed with a sophomore and junior at the helm. Literally zero appreciation for what has been achieved and a focus only on what has yet to be achieved. It’s the emptiest form of existence that people are inflicting on themselves. It's like starting at the gym and then being upset that you’re not jacked after your first session.

[eyriq]

I do wish they approached this deadline like Utah and Ainge. Clear out blockers for the young guys.

[SOUL]

I do wish they approached this deadline like Utah and Ainge. Clear out blockers for the young guys.

They're going to miss the play-ins because of that.

[MagicMatic]

This is how this works.

Magic miss the playoffs:

“we weren’t really healthy this year and we have a lot of evaluation to do with the players before we make any big moves. we want to grow organically.”

Magic barely makes the play in :

“we really like this group of guys and I think the chemistry of the team is important to them. we aren’t going to make a move just to do it.”

This is an excuse in either direction. Why? Because you are throwing away the idea that a roster is comprised of different skill sets. Also funny that outside of signing Ingles they basically lied to our faces that they were making roster decisions. What roster decisions? Cutting Bol and Bamba? Woah slow down there Weltman.

If you are dumb enough to believe these PR responses, then you don’t really understand how and why teams make moves on the margins to improve their performance year to year.

Then I watch games where Orlando’s offense looks like absolute garbage and people are like “How can this happen?” Because the FO gave you an excuse every season and disregarded obvious problems. You bought it and defended them hoping every trade deadline and offseason would be different for the last 7 seasons. That’s why you **** idiot.

[eyriq]

I do wish they approached this deadline like Utah and Ainge. Clear out blockers for the young guys.

They're going to miss the play-ins because of that.

Them missing the play-in isn't the effect of their deadline moves, their play-in probability was low before the deadline.

They have clarity and direction and are sticking to the plan. They will be better for these moves because lotto talent like Hendricks will get PT.

I'll continue to advocate for this alternative path, and the what if will hang around. We chose to bury lotto talent on the deep bench and G-League. There was an alternative.

[Skybox]

The only wash rinse repeat going on is people constantly wanting player turnover. People have wanted to move Ingles and Isaac who are two of our most impactful players. People were upset we didn’t make a move for Jordan Poole. They were upset we didn’t blow $40M a season on FVV to lead us to a late lottery pick like Houston.

Anyone would think we were underperforming instead of being in contention for the 6th seed with a sophomore and junior at the helm. Literally zero appreciation for what has been achieved and a focus only on what has yet to be achieved. It’s the emptiest form of existence that people are inflicting on themselves. It's like starting at the gym and then being upset that you’re not jacked after your first session.

This is so misguided - just an overly simplistic self-help, "use your gratitude journal - you're ok" take

Is FVV worth $40m per, in a vacuum? Of course not - but see the forest, not just the tree you walked into. He signed an overpriced two-year deal with a team option for another overpriced year. HOU, like ORL, had to spend money to get to the salary floor. At the same time, they, like ORL, have a stockpile of young impressionable talent - ORL might even have more. Overpaying FVV for two years, while all those guys are on rookie deals is totally cost-effective.

It would be exactly the same here. His deal would come off the books just as the big rookie extensions are kicking in. That large option year, makes him (actually his deal) very tradable next year. They have all kinds of options - financially...it's just a big nothing. It's not taking them into cap hell or changing their trajectory off-court. But, on court, imagine the value of having a crafty 2-way vet, who is absolutely still the best guy on the court on many nights, taking pressure off of our two-man offense, comprised of 21 year olds. Imagine, our high value, high ceiling, raw young PG being able to actually see what a modern NBA PG looks like every night-in a competitive environment in meaningful games.

So, your young team competes from Day 1, your children learn from a viable vet at the same time, and you still have myriad options when the short deal ends. We could have paid FVV instead of, basically Harris and Ingles or two other TO's or FA signings...don't you think we'd be better? What will be the legacy of the Fultz "era"? zip-lots of other good things happening in the org, but a complete black hole at PG, PG mentoring, PG growth.

The money was basically irrelevant (at least vs what else we did with it)...Bruce Brown was overpaid by design, so was Jeff Green in ORL...those were not financial mistakes, regardless of play - they were moves made by capologists, not scouts. HOU won even bigger because they gave up nothing but salary. If ORL had moved Fultz and even multiple srps for Tyus (whose nowhere near FVV impact), even if it were a rental, his influence and example would be worth the minimal cost to get him - not to mention, removing Fultz from the rotation without "demoting" him publicly, would be a healthy break for this close-knit young, but lacking roster.

[GelbeWand09]

The only wash rinse repeat going on is people constantly wanting player turnover. People have wanted to move Ingles and Isaac who are two of our most impactful players. People were upset we didn’t make a move for Jordan Poole. They were upset we didn’t blow $40M a season on FVV to lead us to a late lottery pick like Houston.

Anyone would think we were underperforming instead of being in contention for the 6th seed with a sophomore and junior at the helm. Literally zero appreciation for what has been achieved and a focus only on what has yet to be achieved. It’s the emptiest form of existence that people are inflicting on themselves. It's like starting at the gym and then being upset that you’re not jacked after your first session.

This is so misguided - just an overly simplistic self-help, "use your gratitude journal - you're ok" take

Is FVV worth $40m per, in a vacuum? Of course not - but see the forest, not just the tree you walked into. He signed an overpriced two-year deal with a team option for another overpriced year. HOU, like ORL, had to spend money to get to the salary floor. At the same time, they, like ORL, have a stockpile of young impressionable talent - ORL might even have more. Overpaying FVV for two years, while all those guys are on rookie deals is totally cost-effective.

It would be exactly the same here. His deal would come off the books just as the big rookie extensions are kicking in. That large option year, makes him (actually his deal) very tradable next year. They have all kinds of options - financially...it's just a big nothing. It's not taking them into cap hell or changing their trajectory off-court. But, on court, imagine the value of having a crafty 2-way vet, who is absolutely still the best guy on the court on many nights, taking pressure off of our two-man offense, comprised of 21 year olds. Imagine, our high value, high ceiling, raw young PG being able to actually see what a modern NBA PG looks like every night-in a competitive environment in meaningful games.

So, your young team competes from Day 1, your children learn from a viable vet at the same time, and you still have myriad options when the short deal ends. We could have paid FVV instead of, basically Harris and Ingles or two other TO's or FA signings...don't you think we'd be better? What will be the legacy of the Fultz "era"? zip-lots of other good things happening in the org, but a complete black hole at PG, PG mentoring, PG growth.

The money was basically irrelevant (at least vs what else we did with it)...Bruce Brown was overpaid by design, so was Jeff Green in ORL...those were not financial mistakes, regardless of play - they were moves made by capologists, not scouts. HOU won even bigger because they gave up nothing but salary. If ORL had moved Fultz and even multiple srps for Tyus (whose nowhere near FVV impact), even if it were a rental, his influence and example would be worth the minimal cost to get him - not to mention, removing Fultz from the rotation without "demoting" him publicly, would be a healthy break for this close-knit young, but lacking roster.

Yea & we would be much better with FVV now & probably a 2nd round team. Houston was the worst team in the leaque for 2 years & became respactable & went from worst to 4th best defense overnight. Houston's youth doesnt improved much. Sengun sure but defensively he only works because of the POA defense by FVV & Brooks & Jabari/Eason covering alot of his weaknesses (ala JI & Vuc). Who cares for 40 mio on a 2 year contract, when we pay 20 for Fultz, who isnt even an NBA player, over a time were we have a ton of money anyway.

[Skybox]

The only wash rinse repeat going on is people constantly wanting player turnover. People have wanted to move Ingles and Isaac who are two of our most impactful players. People were upset we didn’t make a move for Jordan Poole. They were upset we didn’t blow $40M a season on FVV to lead us to a late lottery pick like Houston.

Anyone would think we were underperforming instead of being in contention for the 6th seed with a sophomore and junior at the helm. Literally zero appreciation for what has been achieved and a focus only on what has yet to be achieved. It’s the emptiest form of existence that people are inflicting on themselves. It's like starting at the gym and then being upset that you’re not jacked after your first session.

This is so misguided - just an overly simplistic self-help, "use your gratitude journal - you're ok" take

Is FVV worth $40m per, in a vacuum? Of course not - but see the forest, not just the tree you walked into. He signed an overpriced two-year deal with a team option for another overpriced year. HOU, like ORL, had to spend money to get to the salary floor. At the same time, they, like ORL, have a stockpile of young impressionable talent - ORL might even have more. Overpaying FVV for two years, while all those guys are on rookie deals is totally cost-effective.

It would be exactly the same here. His deal would come off the books just as the big rookie extensions are kicking in. That large option year, makes him (actually his deal) very tradable next year. They have all kinds of options - financially...it's just a big nothing. It's not taking them into cap hell or changing their trajectory off-court. But, on court, imagine the value of having a crafty 2-way vet, who is absolutely still the best guy on the court on many nights, taking pressure off of our two-man offense, comprised of 21 year olds. Imagine, our high value, high ceiling, raw young PG being able to actually see what a modern NBA PG looks like every night-in a competitive environment in meaningful games.

So, your young team competes from Day 1, your children learn from a viable vet at the same time, and you still have myriad options when the short deal ends. We could have paid FVV instead of, basically Harris and Ingles or two other TO's or FA signings...don't you think we'd be better? What will be the legacy of the Fultz "era"? zip-lots of other good things happening in the org, but a complete black hole at PG, PG mentoring, PG growth.

The money was basically irrelevant (at least vs what else we did with it)...Bruce Brown was overpaid by design, so was Jeff Green in ORL...those were not financial mistakes, regardless of play - they were moves made by capologists, not scouts. HOU won even bigger because they gave up nothing but salary. If ORL had moved Fultz and even multiple srps for Tyus (whose nowhere near FVV impact), even if it were a rental, his influence and example would be worth the minimal cost to get him - not to mention, removing Fultz from the rotation without "demoting" him publicly, would be a healthy break for this close-knit young, but lacking roster.

We would be much better with FVV now & probably a 2nd round team. Houston was the worst team in the leaque for 2 years & became respactable & went from worst to 4th best defense overnight. There youth doesnt improved much. Sengun sure but defensively he only works because of the POA defense by FVV & Brooks & Jabari/Eason covering alot of his weaknesses (ala JI & Vuc). Who cares for 40 mio when we pay 20 for Fultz, who isnt even an NBA player, over a time were we have a ton of money anyway. It's only a 2 year deal over a time where we have no big contracts.

that's the thing....individual salary "fairness" is completely overblown...it's roster composition, timing, and effect on young players that really matters. FVV is a wild example of how to manage salary with a young, promising team...Still being resistant to that now proven fact, especially at this point in the season, is kind of like the stupid Sentinel poll however many years ago - asking the random man on the street if Shaq is worth $XX million - shockingly, the guy waiting tables and the HS teacher voted 'no'. They should have polled NBA GM's.

[fendilim]

Yeah, sure, FVV would have been nice. But FVV would not have taken the usage from Paolo and Franz? These dynamic forwards usage would drop significantly with FVV running the point. If you make FVV the third option however, is he even worth paying the 40million? I don’t think so.

I think we did well with the salaries we spent last offseason with Moe and Ingles. Especially with MoJoe playing vital role for the bench mob.