Make a trade or we call for your job!

[Knightro]

This roster is built for playoff success.

It's not really at all as presently constructed. Not nearly enough scoring/shooting.

Worked out for the 2022/23 Heat though.

Outliers are outliers for a reason

[Skybox]

Ok...someone start the 2024 UFA thread

Claxton
Fournier
Paul George
Markelle Fultz

[MagicMatic]

This roster is built for playoff success.

It's not really at all as presently constructed. Not nearly enough scoring/shooting.

This is Popeyes new schtick and I love it.

This is what the FO says every single season regardless of outcome.

“We need to be healthy”
“We need to evaluate this group”
“We are going with an organic approach”

The results could be be the same, slightly better, slightly worse, etc. and they would still use this as the reason they did nothing.

[drsd]

It's not really at all as presently constructed. Not nearly enough scoring/shooting.

Worked out for the 2022/23 Heat though.

Outliers are outliers for a reason

Is there really any doubt that we will get Denver / Boston in the Finals? Really it is not even that close!

[MagicMatic]

If you are forced to make a trade, then you end up getting the short end of the deal. Thus, if all the teams you spoke to end up giving you bad deal offers, then don't make a damned deal.

You also cannot win deals if you never make deals. Smooth brained logic.

Orlando is being led by a bunch of young dudes and has a supporting cast of guys that are either also very young or completely washed up.

The idea is that you want the young guys surrounded by talent so that they aren’t struggling and tasked with doing more than necessary to win games while developing. Weltman does neither Franz or Paolo any favors rolling out a roster that has trouble scoring on any above average defense. You can’t “develop out of” a flawed roster with all the same shortcomings. If anything you are making it more difficult.

[BadMofoPimp]

If you are forced to make a trade, then you end up getting the short end of the deal. Thus, if all the teams you spoke to end up giving you bad deal offers, then don't make a damned deal.

You also cannot win deals if you never make deals. Smooth brained logic.

Orlando is being led by a bunch of young dudes and has a supporting cast of guys that are either also very young or completely washed up.

The idea is that you want the young guys surrounded by talent so that they aren’t struggling and tasked with doing more than necessary to win games while developing. Weltman does neither Franz or Paolo any favors rolling out a roster that has trouble scoring on any above average defense. You can’t “develop out of” a flawed roster with all the same shortcomings. If anything you are making it more difficult.

Well, if every supposed deal out there Weltman talked to teams about involved the Magic giving up more than what they got in return, then I would have to disagree with your assumption that the team needs to make a deal only to make a deal to make some fans happy. I would never want to overpay for a player unless it was a player the level of Dejounte Murray. I think he would have been a game changer this season, but the Magic are playing for the future, not right now for impatient fans. This is not NBA2k.

[GameOver25]

This roster is built for playoff success.

It's not really at all as presently constructed. Not nearly enough scoring/shooting.

Knightro, Cmon Man!
But maybe you're doing a double troll?!?

[Skybox]

If you are forced to make a trade, then you end up getting the short end of the deal. Thus, if all the teams you spoke to end up giving you bad deal offers, then don't make a damned deal.

You also cannot win deals if you never make deals. Smooth brained logic.

Orlando is being led by a bunch of young dudes and has a supporting cast of guys that are either also very young or completely washed up.

The idea is that you want the young guys surrounded by talent so that they aren’t struggling and tasked with doing more than necessary to win games while developing. Weltman does neither Franz or Paolo any favors rolling out a roster that has trouble scoring on any above average defense. You can’t “develop out of” a flawed roster with all the same shortcomings. If anything you are making it more difficult.

100...Paolo and Franz' age is basically no longer relevant. They are here and ready. The fact that they are very young is ONLY a happy bonus, giving us a larger window to work with. Slowing the train because of their birthdates is absolutely without logic. THEY do not need patience. They will get better, but they do not need time on the JV. We are very lucky to strike gold so early and twice. This season is now a waste...a great success, but relatively speaking - could have been more.

what's the saying? "The good is often the enemy of the best"...Weltman congratulating himself & everybody on the season because the bar was so low. Doesn't mean we won't get there, but it's still malpractice to not get there sooner if F&P are ahead of schedule.

[AaronB]

I think that the only teams with significant players to trade Atl with Murray, Port with Simons and Brogdon, and Det with CC, looked at the free agent market and told themselves that they would rather hold unless there is an overpay.

Good for them. Good for the Magic for not making a move.

[AaronB]

If you are forced to make a trade, then you end up getting the short end of the deal. Thus, if all the teams you spoke to end up giving you bad deal offers, then don't make a damned deal.

You also cannot win deals if you never make deals. Smooth brained logic.

Orlando is being led by a bunch of young dudes and has a supporting cast of guys that are either also very young or completely washed up.

The idea is that you want the young guys surrounded by talent so that they aren’t struggling and tasked with doing more than necessary to win games while developing. Weltman does neither Franz or Paolo any favors rolling out a roster that has trouble scoring on any above average defense. You can’t “develop out of” a flawed roster with all the same shortcomings. If anything you are making it more difficult.

100...Paolo and Franz' age is basically no longer relevant. They are here and ready. The fact that they are very young is ONLY a happy bonus, giving us a larger window to work with. Slowing the train because of their birthdates is absolutely without logic. THEY do not need patience. They will get better, but they do not need time on the JV. We are very lucky to strike gold so early and twice. This season is now a waste...a great success, but relatively speaking - could have been more.

what's the saying? "The good is often the enemy of the best"...Weltman congratulating himself & everybody on the season because the bar was so low. Doesn't mean we won't get there, but it's still malpractice to not get there sooner if F&P are ahead of schedule.

The actual saying the way we use it in Engineering is “Better is the Enemy of good enough”. The point that much money can be wasted making a product better when it is fine the way it is.

It kind of goes against your point and there may be other variations that support your point, but that is how we use it in technical fields.

[Skybox]

You also cannot win deals if you never make deals. Smooth brained logic.

Orlando is being led by a bunch of young dudes and has a supporting cast of guys that are either also very young or completely washed up.

The idea is that you want the young guys surrounded by talent so that they aren’t struggling and tasked with doing more than necessary to win games while developing. Weltman does neither Franz or Paolo any favors rolling out a roster that has trouble scoring on any above average defense. You can’t “develop out of” a flawed roster with all the same shortcomings. If anything you are making it more difficult.

100...Paolo and Franz' age is basically no longer relevant. They are here and ready. The fact that they are very young is ONLY a happy bonus, giving us a larger window to work with. Slowing the train because of their birthdates is absolutely without logic. THEY do not need patience. They will get better, but they do not need time on the JV. We are very lucky to strike gold so early and twice. This season is now a waste...a great success, but relatively speaking - could have been more.

what's the saying? "The good is often the enemy of the best"...Weltman congratulating himself & everybody on the season because the bar was so low. Doesn't mean we won't get there, but it's still malpractice to not get there sooner if F&P are ahead of schedule.

The actual saying the way we use it in Engineering is “Better is the Enemy of good enough”. The point that much money can be wasted making a product better when it is fine the way it is.

It kind of goes against your point and there may be other variations that support your point, but that is how we use it in technical fields.

That’s an entirely different statement. Sounds like Weltman is an Engineer…”stop the progress-it’s good enough to keep my job for another year”

[ogmagicfan]

If you are forced to make a trade, then you end up getting the short end of the deal. Thus, if all the teams you spoke to end up giving you bad deal offers, then don't make a damned deal.

You also cannot win deals if you never make deals. Smooth brained logic.

Orlando is being led by a bunch of young dudes and has a supporting cast of guys that are either also very young or completely washed up.

The idea is that you want the young guys surrounded by talent so that they aren’t struggling and tasked with doing more than necessary to win games while developing. Weltman does neither Franz or Paolo any favors rolling out a roster that has trouble scoring on any above average defense. You can’t “develop out of” a flawed roster with all the same shortcomings. If anything you are making it more difficult.

100...Paolo and Franz' age is basically no longer relevant. They are here and ready. The fact that they are very young is ONLY a happy bonus, giving us a larger window to work with. Slowing the train because of their birthdates is absolutely without logic. THEY do not need patience. They will get better, but they do not need time on the JV. We are very lucky to strike gold so early and twice. This season is now a waste...a great success, but relatively speaking - could have been more.

what's the saying? "The good is often the enemy of the best"...Weltman congratulating himself & everybody on the season because the bar was so low. Doesn't mean we won't get there, but it's still malpractice to not get there sooner if F&P are ahead of schedule.

Exactly how I feel about it. Paolo & Franz being ahead of schedule is great, but just because we keep overperforming doesn't mean we should continue to sit pat when there are clear deficiencies on our team, and have been deficiencies since Dwight has left. Shooting & PG play.

Even if we got a Tyus Jones/Monte Morris level PG this offseason & a shooter off the bench, we could have been looking at 50+ wins and confidently top 5 seed in the East. While getting to see our team with actual normal NBA spacing to better evaluate our team and it wouldnt even cost anything to compromise our flexibility for future years.

[Audi]

You also cannot win deals if you never make deals. Smooth brained logic.

Orlando is being led by a bunch of young dudes and has a supporting cast of guys that are either also very young or completely washed up.

The idea is that you want the young guys surrounded by talent so that they aren’t struggling and tasked with doing more than necessary to win games while developing. Weltman does neither Franz or Paolo any favors rolling out a roster that has trouble scoring on any above average defense. You can’t “develop out of” a flawed roster with all the same shortcomings. If anything you are making it more difficult.

100...Paolo and Franz' age is basically no longer relevant. They are here and ready. The fact that they are very young is ONLY a happy bonus, giving us a larger window to work with. Slowing the train because of their birthdates is absolutely without logic. THEY do not need patience. They will get better, but they do not need time on the JV. We are very lucky to strike gold so early and twice. This season is now a waste...a great success, but relatively speaking - could have been more.

what's the saying? "The good is often the enemy of the best"...Weltman congratulating himself & everybody on the season because the bar was so low. Doesn't mean we won't get there, but it's still malpractice to not get there sooner if F&P are ahead of schedule.

Exactly how I feel about it. Paolo & Franz being ahead of schedule is great, but just because we keep overperforming doesn't mean we should continue to sit pat when there are clear deficiencies on our team, and have been deficiencies since Dwight has left. Shooting & PG play.

Even if we got a Tyus Jones/Monte Morris level PG this offseason & a shooter off the bench, we could have been looking at 50+ wins and confidently top 5 seed in the East. While getting to see our team with actual normal NBA spacing to better evaluate our team and it wouldnt even cost anything to compromise our flexibility for future years.

I get what you are saying but what makes you think we’ve not seen this team operate with “normal NBA spacing”? Fultz has played less than 20 games and he’s the main reason anyone even talks about it. Even when he’s on the floor, we’ve still got a floor spacing C in Wendell bringing that starting LU to 4/5 guys capable of hitting 3s at a decent clip, which is pretty much par the course across the league. I’m not saying we won’t benefit from a PG upgrade, but the idea we’ve never seen these guys operate in space is overblown.

[cedric76]

18 people voted yes, lol

Realgm strike again

[Skybox]

100...Paolo and Franz' age is basically no longer relevant. They are here and ready. The fact that they are very young is ONLY a happy bonus, giving us a larger window to work with. Slowing the train because of their birthdates is absolutely without logic. THEY do not need patience. They will get better, but they do not need time on the JV. We are very lucky to strike gold so early and twice. This season is now a waste...a great success, but relatively speaking - could have been more.

what's the saying? "The good is often the enemy of the best"...Weltman congratulating himself & everybody on the season because the bar was so low. Doesn't mean we won't get there, but it's still malpractice to not get there sooner if F&P are ahead of schedule.

Exactly how I feel about it. Paolo & Franz being ahead of schedule is great, but just because we keep overperforming doesn't mean we should continue to sit pat when there are clear deficiencies on our team, and have been deficiencies since Dwight has left. Shooting & PG play.

Even if we got a Tyus Jones/Monte Morris level PG this offseason & a shooter off the bench, we could have been looking at 50+ wins and confidently top 5 seed in the East. While getting to see our team with actual normal NBA spacing to better evaluate our team and it wouldnt even cost anything to compromise our flexibility for future years.

I get what you are saying but what makes you think we’ve not seen this team operate with “normal NBA spacing”? Fultz has played less than 20 games and he’s the main reason anyone even talks about it. Even when he’s on the floor, we’ve still got a floor spacing C in Wendell bringing that starting LU to 4/5 guys capable of hitting 3s at a decent clip, which is pretty much par the course across the league. I’m not saying we won’t benefit from a PG upgrade, but the idea we’ve never seen these guys operate in space is overblown.

Our team-wide 3 pt shooting is very low volume and %…we’ve had a handful of outlier games where Caleb or Suggs goes off, but generally ORL stinks at spreading the floor. Having a C that can shoot 3’s (also not great volume) isn’t best fundamentally because that means he’s 22 feet from an offensive rebound or lob. It’s a good plus but doesn’t replace the greater need for guards to spread the floor. Our PG shouldn’t be camped in the dunker’s spot while our C pump fakes on the perimeter.

[Fortune Teller]

Weltman's 2023-24 fiscal year included three opportunities to improve the team: 1) 2023 draft; 2) 2023 free agency period; 3) 2024 trade deadline. He had two lottery picks and multiple expiring contracts to work with.

So let's pretend we're his boss doing his annual performance review. He added Black, a bench project who might be good in a few years but hasn't shown much offensive talent. He added Jett, a G-League project who was a head-scratching reach at #11 and may or may not be an NBA player one day. And he added Ingles, 36 years old.

Any attempt to defend or justify that year of "accomplishments" sounds desperate.

The weakest argument is that it was always the plan for Black and Jett to sit all year even though the starting PG won't shoot outside the paint, doesn't draw fouls, and has low assist numbers. We're not Denver or Boston. You don't "draft & stash" when you have glaring holes on the roster. Our entire backcourt is a giant black hole. Welt did nothing to improve the guard rotation, and nothing to improve 3-point shooting.

[zaymon]

Weltman's 2023-24 fiscal year included three opportunities to improve the team: 1) 2023 draft; 2) 2023 free agency period; 3) 2024 trade deadline. He had two lottery picks and multiple expiring contracts to work with.

So let's pretend we're his boss doing his annual performance review. He added Black, a bench project who might be good in a few years but hasn't shown much offensive talent. He added Jett, a G-League project who was a head-scratching reach at #11 and may or may not be an NBA player one day. And he added Ingles, 36 years old.

Any attempt to defend or justify that year of "accomplishments" sounds desperate.

The weakest argument is that it was always the plan for Black and Jett to sit all year even though the starting PG won't shoot outside the paint, doesn't draw fouls, and has low assist numbers. We're not Denver or Boston. You don't "draft & stash" when you have glaring holes on the roster. Our entire backcourt is a giant black hole. Welt did nothing to improve the guard rotation, and nothing to improve 3-point shooting.

Your argument would be much stronger if we were a contender with aging stars.
Black and Howard showed about as much potential as players picked around them.
We are not Boston and Denver, we can still stash high lottery picks for a year or two, we dont have to win right now.
Making play in was a rational goal at the beginning of the season and still is.

[MagicMatic]

If you are forced to make a trade, then you end up getting the short end of the deal. Thus, if all the teams you spoke to end up giving you bad deal offers, then don't make a damned deal.

You also cannot win deals if you never make deals. Smooth brained logic.

Orlando is being led by a bunch of young dudes and has a supporting cast of guys that are either also very young or completely washed up.

The idea is that you want the young guys surrounded by talent so that they aren’t struggling and tasked with doing more than necessary to win games while developing. Weltman does neither Franz or Paolo any favors rolling out a roster that has trouble scoring on any above average defense. You can’t “develop out of” a flawed roster with all the same shortcomings. If anything you are making it more difficult.

Well, if every supposed deal out there Weltman talked to teams about involved the Magic giving up more than what they got in return, then I would have to disagree with your assumption that the team needs to make a deal only to make a deal to make some fans happy. I would never want to overpay for a player unless it was a player the level of Dejounte Murray. I think he would have been a game changer this season, but the Magic are playing for the future, not right now for impatient fans. This is not NBA2k.

What you are missing here, and the entire argument in general, is that nobody here seriously believed Dejounte Murray was an option. That’s not the argument at all.

There is a grey area. The options don’t end with needing to overpay terrible washed up constantly injured players OR trading every asset possible for a decent starter.

Doug McDermott was traded for a second round pick. Orlando doesn’t even use second round picks. That’s just one example. There isn’t a chance in hell Orlando’s first this year will do more to help the team than Tyus Jones would on this roster. That was supposedly the asking price. He’s an average point guard that isn’t riddled by injuries or glaring weaknesses that opposing defenses can easily scheme against.

What is this NBA2k comment? Are you dense enough to think Orlando doesn’t have enough assets to land a stopgap point guard anywhere in the league ? This is homer talk when the FO does absolutely nothing for 7 years in a row without being prompted to by players or ownership.

[Skybox]

You also cannot win deals if you never make deals. Smooth brained logic.

Orlando is being led by a bunch of young dudes and has a supporting cast of guys that are either also very young or completely washed up.

The idea is that you want the young guys surrounded by talent so that they aren’t struggling and tasked with doing more than necessary to win games while developing. Weltman does neither Franz or Paolo any favors rolling out a roster that has trouble scoring on any above average defense. You can’t “develop out of” a flawed roster with all the same shortcomings. If anything you are making it more difficult.

Well, if every supposed deal out there Weltman talked to teams about involved the Magic giving up more than what they got in return, then I would have to disagree with your assumption that the team needs to make a deal only to make a deal to make some fans happy. I would never want to overpay for a player unless it was a player the level of Dejounte Murray. I think he would have been a game changer this season, but the Magic are playing for the future, not right now for impatient fans. This is not NBA2k.

What you are missing here, and the entire argument in general, is that nobody here seriously believed Dejounte Murray was an option. That’s not the argument at all.

There is a grey area. The options don’t end with needing to overpay terrible washed up constantly injured players OR trading every asset possible for a decent starter.

Doug McDermott was traded for a second round pick. Orlando doesn’t even use second round picks. That’s just one example. There isn’t a chance in hell Orlando’s first this year will do more to help the team than Tyus Jones would on this roster. That was supposedly the asking price. He’s an average point guard that isn’t riddled by injuries or glaring weaknesses that opposing defenses can easily scheme against.

What is this NBA2k comment? Are you dense enough to think Orlando doesn’t have enough assets to land a stopgap point guard anywhere in the league ? This is homer talk when the FO does absolutely nothing for 7 years in a row without being prompted to by players or ownership.

srps are crap...plain and simple. It's amazing to me the degree that real, productive players are being traded for srps. It's kind of like cryptocurrency or poker chips- they are assigned an assumed value, but they really aren't much of anything when the draft rolls around. I'd honestly, truly, seriously trade ALL of our srps for the next 15 years and Fultz for Murray without a drop of sweat. I'd give 5 srps for Tyus and I'm not even that big a fan...if he didn't work out and left, I wouldn't cry about it.

*Please don't bother correcting me on Crypto...I understand people make a lot of money before it inevitably crashes. I've already heard from the engineers on here about "Good Enough > Best", I don't need the in-house Economists to educate me that crypto is no different than cash or gold...etc or the Unabomber-looking poker guys either. I guess I should also call off the NBA historians with their 5 examples (out of 1000) where 2rps were really good...I'll take my chances with trades, FA's, and frps.

[three3d]

I’ll start out by saying I’ll exclude Paolo & Franz from some of this as it’s not their fault, they are already good players but they are being held back from how great they could be. There is a culture problem within the organization and it’s time for a drastic change from the top. Every thing seems to be fine right now but something is brewing and you can see it on the court. Player frustration is showing, see it a lot in Paolo especially when it comes to the reffing and non calls. I’ve seen it all year, not just in him but others also. Paolo and Franz are asked to do just about everything on their own, and that can wear on anyone but especially such young players.

The front office just sat back at deadline and did nothing to help even though we all see what they are lacking. As good as Paolo and Franz are right now do they not realize how great they could truly be with a capable pg and some floor spacers around them? This is hurting the development of everyone but especially the two stars we have. Player development has been an issue for a long time, have we ever fully developed to someone’s max potential? Maybe you could say Dwight ,that’s the only one that comes to my head. But what happened with Dwight? He got tired of it and wanted out of Orlando. In fact EVERY star has wanted out of Orlando. Whats going to happen with Paolo & Franz is yet to be determined but we have all seen this many times play out within the organization.

I was not an Anthony Black or Jett Howard fan draft night and can’t say I am one right now either. But what I can say is I don’t understand at all what the vision or plan is with AB. His last real game and minutes played at Dallas he had by far his best performance on offense and sense then is logging DNP’s or playing less then 3 minutes per games. What is the message they are sending him? By not making trades to clear a path for him to play what have you said to everyone? Clearly the message is draft picks no longer factor or matter much into this team. So why with all the picks we have site back at deadline and not actually make this team better now? Wasted opportunity, wasted time, and wasted assets! The goal is to win a championship and this isn’t a championship roster as constructed. Low expectations are just making the playoffs. We could have done that with some trades and been better this year and better going into next season.