2023-2024 Regular Season Game 54: Oklahoma City Thunder (36-17) at Orlando Magic (29-24) - 7:30pm

[eyriq]

What sucks about the loss is that all the Magic alumni were there to see it. Gotta leave a bitter taste in Mosley's mouth.

[Knightro]

What sucks about the loss is that all the Magic alumni were there to see it. Gotta leave a bitter taste in Mosley's mouth.

I don't think it's that big of a deal. They have another game to prepare for tomorrow, ya know?

[JF5]

They are not trash but they are extremely passive, that’s extremely obvious and a very fair criticism.

I agree that their methods might be a little tedious. But I have to remind myself of what the previous administration did by trading Oladipo/Sabonis (who were/are both allstar caliber players) for a disgruntled role player who didn't even want to be here and pretty much said he was going to leave when he got here.

And trading a young Tobias Harris for expiring contracts in hopes to sign a star caliber who ended being Bismack Biyombo who didn't last long here.

People like the allure of the trade until it actually plays out. For most trade transactions you'll be left unimpressed or disappointed thinking said player would turn into the idealized version the fans made up in their head for them. There really a few times where a player blows you aways once they are moved to a new squad.

How do you propose Orlando get exponentially better outside of development?

Late draft picks?
When did Orlando make a huge free agent signing?
You’re attempting to make the case that trades aren’t worthwhile.

So development and only development is the way then in your opinion. Like skill sets don’t matter and players can will themselves to become completely different through the power of friendship and coaching. Talent is the only thing that matters and some players you invest in don’t have it. Welcome to reality.

If you're a small market team most of your work is through the draft and for trading on potential young talent.

That's how OKC did it... Most of their talent outside of SGA (who they traded Paul George for) they got through the draft.

That's how Denver did it with Jokic/Murray/Porter all being drafted then started adding the key pieces a few years later with Gordon and KCP.

So yes development/time for your young stars to become Superstars and a few years to figure out what trades/free-agents to surround your core guys is very necessary.

[Optimus_Steel]

What sucks about the loss is that all the Magic alumni were there to see it. Gotta leave a bitter taste in Mosley's mouth.

I don't think it's that big of a deal. They have another game to prepare for tomorrow, ya know?

You’re kidding if you don’t think this was deflating with the circumstances.

[Rainwater]

OKC are a better team because they have a better front office. They constructed a roster that makes sense and didn’t waste 4-5 seasons doing nothing drafting busts.

While I do think Presti is much better than Weltman, I think we need to also be fair about how much easier OKC's rebuild was compared to basically any other team because of how much more they had had to trade away.

OKC went 49-33 in 2018-2019, then that offseason they blew up and...

Traded Paul George who at the time was a 28-year-old, 6x all-star for SGA, five first round picks and 2 pick swaps - one of those firsts became Jalen Williams

Traded Russell Westbrook who at the time was a 30-year-old, 8x all-star for Chris Paul for two 1st round picks and two pick swaps - they later flipped Paul himself for a 1st round pick the following offseason

Traded Jeremi Grant who at the time was a 24-year-old high end role player and whose next two contracts were 3/60 and 5/160 for a 1st round pick.

So in basically one shot the Thunder acquired a future all-NBA guard, eight first round picks and four pick swaps.

The Magic blew up a team that was 15-29 and 33-40 the year before.

Vucevic, Gordon and Fournier ultimately netted the Magic Wendell Carter Jr. and 3 first round picks.

Yeah, this post shows that their front office is willing to take risks and make deals. It depends on how far you want to go back.

Weltman had made one move of consequence albeit good with an “all star”. AG move was **** and Fournier was nothing.

The bottom line is that those evaluation years and everything leading up to landing Franz/Suggs/Paolo have resulted in basically nothing whether anyone likes it or not. The only other constant has been JI who has played a fraction of games and minutes.

So when people make excuses about “being young” and “what else were they supposed to do” they make it seem like no other decision prior to Paolo factors into anything. Then I’m told we need to be patient when still no moves are made like it hasn’t been a pattern for 7 seasons.

Wasn’t prior to Paolo only one year into the rebuild after finally trading away AG, Vuc, and, Evan? What could they have done in that one year?

To me anything before trading away AG, Vuc, and Evan makes no difference because they were building around those 3 and not the current core. Whatever happened during that time period is a sunk cost.

I understand the argument that it has been 7 years of the wait and see approach but the magic finally have a core to build around, very few teams are doing much when their top guys are 21 and 22 respectively, and it takes times to get the pieces around them.

Again, I would love moves to be made and I am certain something will happen this offseason but this process just started give it some time. If you were to compare it to the last time the magic had a superstar (Dwight) to build around they are on a similar path. Just like Dwight at 21 the, with Paolo the magic look like they should make the playoffs.

[Rainwater]

What sucks about the loss is that all the Magic alumni were there to see it. Gotta leave a bitter taste in Mosley's mouth.

I don't think it's that big of a deal. They have another game to prepare for tomorrow, ya know?

You’re kidding if you don’t think this was deflating with the circumstances.

Other than the fans I doubt it was a big deal, lol. Again, this is a young team playing against the number two team in the west who has a MVP candidate. As guys who have played the game I think they understand this.

[KillMonger]

who we getting to replace fultz? black isn't quite ready yet to take over full time

[pepe1991]

OKC expolited non existing offense of Isaac and Fultz



It's getting ridicilous at this point. It's worst than Ben Simmons. Guy is spending time, at 6'3- on dunker's spot or in corner leaving team to play 4 on 5.

Isaac was served with same . He was flat out ignored in corner, as Holmgren kept defending paint instad of him.


In general this is what good teams do to onedimensional players. They take them out of game or leveradge their limitations to their own adventage.

[pepe1991]

who we getting to replace fultz? black isn't quite ready yet to take over full time

For what i care,Mac McClung would be upgrade at this point. Massive one.

[jezzerinho]

I agree that their methods might be a little tedious. But I have to remind myself of what the previous administration did by trading Oladipo/Sabonis (who were/are both allstar caliber players) for a disgruntled role player who didn't even want to be here and pretty much said he was going to leave when he got here.

And trading a young Tobias Harris for expiring contracts in hopes to sign a star caliber who ended being Bismack Biyombo who didn't last long here.

People like the allure of the trade until it actually plays out. For most trade transactions you'll be left unimpressed or disappointed thinking said player would turn into the idealized version the fans made up in their head for them. There really a few times where a player blows you aways once they are moved to a new squad.

How do you propose Orlando get exponentially better outside of development?

Late draft picks?
When did Orlando make a huge free agent signing?
You’re attempting to make the case that trades aren’t worthwhile.

So development and only development is the way then in your opinion. Like skill sets don’t matter and players can will themselves to become completely different through the power of friendship and coaching. Talent is the only thing that matters and some players you invest in don’t have it. Welcome to reality.

If you're a small market team most of your work is through the draft and for trading on potential young talent.

That's how OKC did it... Most of their talent outside of SGA (who they traded Paul George for) they got through the draft.

That's how Denver did it with Jokic/Murray/Porter all being drafted then started adding the key pieces a few years later with Gordon and KCP.

So yes development/time for your young stars to become Superstars and a few years to figure out what trades/free-agents to surround your core guys is very necessary.

And how do you get those draft picks?

By trading out players at the peak of their value, as OKC did. Not hang grimly onto them until theyre worth half nothing.

We couldn't have ever matched OKCs pick haul, but if wed moved all of Vuc, Ross, Fournier, Gordon earlier, wed have had a much bigger warchest.

[pepe1991]

How do you propose Orlando get exponentially better outside of development?

Late draft picks?
When did Orlando make a huge free agent signing?
You’re attempting to make the case that trades aren’t worthwhile.

So development and only development is the way then in your opinion. Like skill sets don’t matter and players can will themselves to become completely different through the power of friendship and coaching. Talent is the only thing that matters and some players you invest in don’t have it. Welcome to reality.

If you're a small market team most of your work is through the draft and for trading on potential young talent.

That's how OKC did it... Most of their talent outside of SGA (who they traded Paul George for) they got through the draft.

That's how Denver did it with Jokic/Murray/Porter all being drafted then started adding the key pieces a few years later with Gordon and KCP.

So yes development/time for your young stars to become Superstars and a few years to figure out what trades/free-agents to surround your core guys is very necessary.

And how do you get those draft picks?

By trading out players at the peak of their value, as OKC did. Not hang grimly onto them until theyre worth half nothing.

We couldn't have ever matched OKCs pick haul, but if wed moved all of Vuc, Ross, Fournier, Gordon earlier, wed have had a much bigger warchest.

Go back in 2019. You have allstar C.
You have bust on your hands who is 6th overall pick that scouts still drool over.
Instad of trading out f*** Bamba, we kept him for FOUR ADDITIONAL YEARS until we made sure he has no value.

4 years later Weltman is flipping 6th overall pick into:
Pat Bew- vaiwed on spot
second round pick in 2024- ( best of my knowledge, that pick was lost due nba ruling or something like that, meaningles transaction regardless)
Cash considierations


Hell, even if he moved a **** away from im 2020 he would get more . Even in 2021.

But no. Sitting on his hands until player reaches market value of below zero just to not look bad because of drafting bust in very good lottery.

And let's not even go into 2019 draft where he drafted Okeke only because Okeke agreed to not sign professional contract so he didn't need to move anybody to open roster spot.

[cedric76]

Jett is not scare of shooting the ball, having him next season attempt 6+ 3s per game will open the floor



Suggs (our A+++ marcus smart) - AB
????? - Jett (potential to become our SG of the future)
Franz - Joe - Caleb
PB-JI- Mo
WCJ- Goga (I cant see any team with cap space to offer him a huge contract, so we might be able to retain him on the cheap) - Mo

I m happy with our future forward rotation

Now let s see what we do with our Guards rotation

Fultz- i love him but at this point i would only give him the 3rd PG spot
Harris - Why have a 3&D SG that doesnt want to shoot?
Cole - I love his heart but i question his BBIQ

FA target:
Monk?
Trent?

[meatwad4343]

who we getting to replace fultz? black isn't quite ready yet to take over full time

For what i care,Mac McClung would be upgrade at this point. Massive one.

As far as just replacing fultz goes, black is ready. Black is already a better defender than fultz and has at least shown he can hit wide open shots. Fultz refuses to take a jumper and camps in the paint and ruins the spacing. This team is easily way better with black in. Fultz just needs to be buried on the bench and out of the rotation. If we get to the playoffs it will be a very short stay with how teams will exploit fultz in our offense

[basketballRob]

I wouldn't mind seeing Mose switch up the bench lineup a bit. Doesn't have to be both Jett and AB, but maybe Houstan for Gary and AB for Ingles. Goga still feels dependent on matchups so I'm not sure how we get him in there without completely benching one of WCJ, Moe or Isaac.

I think Goga should start. You can't have a whole lineup of non rim protectors. It just doesn't look good. Many traditional centers like Goga are successful.

Wendell would look great in a Naz Reid role off the bench.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[richi_v25]

What sucks about the loss is that all the Magic alumni were there to see it. Gotta leave a bitter taste in Mosley's mouth.

We've never won a title so they're used to losing. If you ain't first you're last - Ricky Bobby

[Skybox]

OKC expolited non existing offense of Isaac and Fultz



It's getting ridicilous at this point. It's worst than Ben Simmons. Guy is spending time, at 6'3- on dunker's spot or in corner leaving team to play 4 on 5.

Isaac was served with same . He was flat out ignored in corner, as Holmgren kept defending paint instad of him.


In general this is what good teams do to onedimensional players. They take them out of game or leveradge their limitations to their own adventage.

This is an example to think about. Isaac’s defensive impact is otherworldly, so you live with the fact that, so far, he’s offensively inept. Fultz as stated for over a year now, doesn’t have enough “other stuff” to make this picture forgivable

[basketballRob]

OKC expolited non existing offense of Isaac and Fultz



It's getting ridicilous at this point. It's worst than Ben Simmons. Guy is spending time, at 6'3- on dunker's spot or in corner leaving team to play 4 on 5.

Isaac was served with same . He was flat out ignored in corner, as Holmgren kept defending paint instad of him.


In general this is what good teams do to onedimensional players. They take them out of game or leveradge their limitations to their own adventage.

This is an example to think about. Isaac’s defensive impact is otherworldly, so you live with the fact that, so far, he’s offensively inept. Fultz as stated for over a year now, doesn’t have enough “other stuff” to make this picture forgivable

Our defense and turnovers are what hurt us. Plus, Franz looked like a deer in the headlights. He missed several wide open shots. He was also trying some terrible passes.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[Skybox]

who we getting to replace fultz? black isn't quite ready yet to take over full time

For what i care,Mac McClung would be upgrade at this point. Massive one.

Honestly, I agree. McClung and AB…if those are now the tiny pool to draw from…and some more Suggs/Franz PG time as needed.

2 truths
-there’s not enough difference from Fultz to AB to play the one who’s smashed against his ceiling and is expiring
-McClung may not work out but he does bring the attributes and attitude we need offensively.

I’m not betting on a McClung fairytale, “Mac-sanity” playoff run, but I know what we’ll get as presently constructed. To address this “family” BS, we could buy Fultz out to “help him” catch on with a contender since it is (should be) evident he’s not sticking here. Rip off the band aid already…we’ll have a week of crying and get back to the business of team improvement.

[OrlChamps2030]

I wouldn't mind seeing Mose switch up the bench lineup a bit. Doesn't have to be both Jett and AB, but maybe Houstan for Gary and AB for Ingles. Goga still feels dependent on matchups so I'm not sure how we get him in there without completely benching one of WCJ, Moe or Isaac.

I think Goga should start. You can't have a whole lineup of non rim protectors. It just doesn't look good. Many traditional centers like Goga are successful.

Wendell would look great in a Naz Reid role off the bench.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

I don’t think you can start Goga and Fultz together.. both take up the same space on offense

We need spacing from our C so our PG can sit under the rim.. Bravo Weltman

[eyriq]

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