What do you think of Coach Mosley's offensive schemes?

[The-Stallion70]

I get trying to root for the kid but people need to challenge their own willful ignorance and notice his unimpressive offensive game. It's like you are ignoring his negatives just because he's ours.

I think this is human nature, it's like Black is our own child or something like that.

Players get traded or moved all the time though it is a business, to be cliche.

[Knightro]

Of all the teams in the NBA that have a winning record, which is currently 18 of 30 (60%) teams, the Magic are…

Dead last in offensive rating
Dead last in turnovers
Dead last in 3PT made
Dead last in 3PT%

If anyone can look at those numbers and still say “I don’t think the Magic would benefit significantly from having better point guard play” then that person is simply too ignorant to have a reasonable discussion with about this.

[Bensational]

Imagine running a 9 month campaign to warn everyone about the pitfalls of a low 3pt shooting team that lacks “an actual point guard with talent” (whatever that means), only to watch your team then fight for a top 10 record in the league and home court advantage in the post season.

Imagine insisting that Fultz was going to be locked up for $25M a season after this season, only to watch him get relegated to an increasingly reduced role on the bench as the season progresses.

Imagine damning the front office for not making room for Black, and then damning Black for being a raw rookie once he’s a starter on decent minutes.

Imagine doubling down on all of those projections as the season progresses and the young team you’re supporting proves every single one of those assumptions wrong as they rack up the best record the franchise has seen in over a decade.

Imagine trying to discount your own team’s success and calling it “fool’s gold” just because they make all of your points look misguided.

Imagine being that wrong and trying to paint others as ignorant.

Imagine that.

[SOUL]

I kinda sit somewhere in the middle of the debate. I don't think it was a dire need to be super active and have to fully commit ourselves to a FVV this last offseason, and Fultz was average last year in terms of steadying the team and his mid-range looking "back" and I was totally okay with his final year here as a stop-gap PG. I didn't think he was the future here, but I certainly didn't think he would look as broken as he has in the span of a season. I also don't take past inactivity with our young/rebuilding team to mean we will be inactive with glaring holes and a competitive team.

I would've liked to at least have gotten a backup PG at the trade deadline if it wasn't too expensive in the case of not having to rely on the health of oft-injured guards.

I do think moving forward, whether it's a dynamic two guard that can get inside and penetrate with Suggs at the 1 or a capable PG with Suggs at the 2, there needs to be a guard tandem that can reliably shift defenses with speed. It'll open up the court a lot. Very hard to survive in this league without someone being a threat (outside of Suggs, who will have to prove that reliability).

Celtics: Jrue/White
Cavs: Mitchell/Garland
Bucks: Lillard/Beasley
Knicks: Brunson/Donte/Hart
Sixers: Maxey/Hield
Pacers: Hali/Mathurin
Heat: Rozier/Herro

They don't even have to be huge names, but all of those guys are either great table setting PGs, bucket getters/scorers, or volume three point shooters. We don't really have any of that on this team right now outside of Suggs who is just de-facto PG but can at least make things happen with his own shot, but a lot of that is off of broken plays.

We have three point shooters that don't have the volume or just bad three point shooters in general, and Black is a bit too unreliable (understandable, he's a rookie), and Fultz is unfortunately a goner here IMO.

[Bensational]

The big problem is that by leaning into our weaknesses we end up losing the advantage of our strengths. Ie, the Magic are 5-17 when attempting 35 or more 3-point shots.

It’s the oversimplification of “more shooting will make it easier for the team” when the results are, in fact, the opposite. We’re a low shooting team but we’re a leader at taking wide open 3’s, particularly off passes from the paint. So while on the surface it looks like a problem because we’re not chucking ant the rate of Indiana or Sacramento, we are still finding efficiency from 3 our own way. And that’s only likely to improve as the team grows in development and chemistry.

Most of all, the team is letting the young guys call the shots and take responsibility, and it’s already paid dividends in the win column - not to mention experience and development for Paolo, Franz and Suggs. It’s simply not the time to be outsourcing those responsibilities. People wanted the Magic to pick a lane and they did - they put the ball in Paolo and Franz’s hands for the season. We’re in the fast lane and people are still complaining because they want to go in the opposite direction.

[SOUL]

The big problem is that by leaning into our weaknesses we end up losing the advantage of our strengths. Ie, the Magic are 5-17 when attempting 35 or more 3-point shots.

It’s the oversimplification of “more shooting will make it easier for the team” when the results are, in fact, the opposite. We’re a low shooting team but we’re a leader at taking wide open 3’s, particularly off passes from the paint. So while on the surface it looks like a problem because we’re not chucking ant the rate of Indiana or Sacramento, we are still finding efficiency from 3 our own way. And that’s only likely to improve as the team grows in development and chemistry.

Most of all, the team is letting the young guys call the shots and take responsibility, and it’s already paid dividends in the win column - not to mention experience and development for Paolo, Franz and Suggs. It’s simply not the time to be outsourcing those responsibilities. People wanted the Magic to pick a lane and they did - they put the ball in Paolo and Franz’s hands for the season. We’re in the fast lane and people are still complaining because they want to go in the opposite direction.

I agree about the outsourcing part. I think in the long run, the experience of this season and going through some struggles will be beneficial.

But acquiring said player(s) in the future doesn't mean we have to overhaul the philosophy of what our best players are best at, but you need to be able to throw a curveball in with the fastballs. It will make us a much more dangerous offensive team to guard. And it just makes it the margin for error larger.

The threes and shooting look worse against better defenses though, which is an issue. I'll take the finally looking good against bad teams this year, but moving forward, there has to be multiple ways to beat the better teams.

[KillMonger]

The big problem is that by leaning into our weaknesses we end up losing the advantage of our strengths. Ie, the Magic are 5-17 when attempting 35 or more 3-point shots.

It’s the oversimplification of “more shooting will make it easier for the team” when the results are, in fact, the opposite. We’re a low shooting team but we’re a leader at taking wide open 3’s, particularly off passes from the paint. So while on the surface it looks like a problem because we’re not chucking ant the rate of Indiana or Sacramento, we are still finding efficiency from 3 our own way. And that’s only likely to improve as the team grows in development and chemistry.

Most of all, the team is letting the young guys call the shots and take responsibility, and it’s already paid dividends in the win column - not to mention experience and development for Paolo, Franz and Suggs. It’s simply not the time to be outsourcing those responsibilities. People wanted the Magic to pick a lane and they did - they put the ball in Paolo and Franz’s hands for the season. We’re in the fast lane and people are still complaining because they want to go in the opposite direction.

This is a good post.....it's still tough because you can see glaringly where this team can improve....to me standing pat at the deadline did frustrate me not gonna lie about that because we could've gotten a jumpstart on a process that has to happen anyway so why not become a more viable team now and see where that takes us in the playoffs...however listening to the podsquad episode with the VP of basketball opps was illuminating somewhat hearing how high they take "chemistry" into account when making moves.....it's important but it shouldn't stop you from making the team better....Handing the keys to Franz and Paolo is the right move to me, they're figuring stuff out and it might look really ugly at times but....If not now then when? If these are the guys that you think that will take you to where you want to go then you have to let them work through it....

[Bensational]

I agree about the outsourcing part. I think in the long run, the experience of this season and going through some struggles will be beneficial.

But acquiring said player(s) in the future doesn't mean we have to overhaul the philosophy of what our best players are best at, but you need to be able to throw a curveball in with the fastballs. It will make us a much more dangerous offensive team to guard. And it just makes it the margin for error larger.

It all depends on how things are going internally, doesn't it? What if the team chooses instead to continue to run with the young guys and give Suggs and Black more time and larger on-ball roles? That would replace Fultz (assuming he's not returning). You've gotta imagine Jett is ready to compete for a rotation spot by then, Houstan is already the 13th man, so between them that could be Gary Harris replaced. Cole, Moe, Isaac will all be back. Goga might be back. They might pick up Ingles remaining year in a player-coach capacity. And... could you blame them? As long as the kids remain competitive, haven't they earned that chance?

So that's going to leave 1, maybe 2, spots for new additions. If a PG is brought in then I think Cole goes out, as I don't think they'd want to run a small backcourt, and I don't think the team or Cole would be happy with a demotion. But if the team is sticking with the core and developing guys, feels safe to assume Cole is part of that plan. Maybe Patty Mills will want to come and join Joe?

They'll have cap space still in 2025, and after a year of the above, a stronger idea of how to address the team for the long term. People will call that inactive, but it's just giving young players time to develop.

[SOUL]

It all depends on how things are going internally, doesn't it? What if the team chooses instead to continue to run with the young guys and give Suggs and Black more time and larger on-ball roles? That would replace Fultz (assuming he's not returning). You've gotta imagine Jett is ready to compete for a rotation spot by then, Houstan is already the 13th man, so between them that could be Gary Harris replaced. Cole, Moe, Isaac will all be back. Goga might be back. They might pick up Ingles remaining year in a player-coach capacity. And... could you blame them? As long as the kids remain competitive, haven't they earned that chance?

So that's going to leave 1, maybe 2, spots for new additions. If a PG is brought in then I think Cole goes out, as I don't think they'd want to run a small backcourt, and I don't think the team or Cole would be happy with a demotion. But if the team is sticking with the core and developing guys, feels safe to assume Cole is part of that plan. Maybe Patty Mills will want to come and join Joe?

They'll have cap space still in 2025, and after a year of the above, a stronger idea of how to address the team for the long term. People will call that inactive, but it's just giving young players time to develop.

I think that would be continued passiveness unlike we've seen in non-contending teams for a while. I was an advocate for it coming into this season, was disappointed but not shocked they didn't try for anybody at the trade deadline, and didn't want them to give up value if teams were asking for too much... but they really need to invest in bringing in a player or two this upcoming FA via trade or signing. They've signaled it themselves, so it's time for them to deliver and make some tough decisions to make us comfortably in the top 5 for the foreseeable future.

Fultz seems like he's gone. You can either be unavailable and semi-functional for so long. Can't be both.
Goga is a UFA and as much as he likes this team, he will get paid more to be a backup rather than being an emergency 3rd stringer.. unless WCJ is traded or something.
Ingles can barely move out there. He has 13 games of 0 points and takes 3 shots a game. Obviously has some steadying games out there and has nice rapport with Moe, but the guy will be 37. Honestly, he could even retire and it wouldn't be shocking.

I just don't think you can bring in a 36 year old Patty Mills and call it a day lol. We also can't really invest in every single young player at the same time. I'd argue Jett is just a liable to get traded as he is to get regular minutes next season.

It feels like we've really identified who are impact pieces are this year, there's not really a need for another year of that. Paolo, Franz, Suggs, Isaac (when healthy) .. that's it for now. Carter Jr. is solid, but just a guy. Cole is streaky and helpful at times but small. Black may or may not be a thing, but he can be a great connector piece at his peak.

You don't have to go all in, but there's only so much you can dedicate to potential and internal growth.

We're at a great position - don't get me wrong.. but people need to remember that we're on the timeline of Paolo and Franz, not of Black and Jett.

There's no rush to push in ALL of the chips, you don't want to be the Brooklyn Nets with Durant or the Suns currently.. but a team like the Knicks have made a lot of shrewd moves lately while not mortgaging many picks.

[Tarheel]

I certainly think that he's more of a defensive coach than an offensive coach, but that's kind of what you need with a young team. Players can figure out NBA style offense (in the regular season) for themselves if they are good enough, defense needs to be taught and reinforced constantly.

Offensive schemes matter little in the regular season, it'll be the playoffs where you need to show how good an offensive coach you are. As we've not been to the playoffs yet, I don't think you can really say how good or not Mosley is.

If he does struggle this postseason, then get him a D'Antoni type assistant for next year and see if he can learn.

Edit: Player fit will also play a huge part in how good teams look offensively. He is hamstrung a bit with the pieces he has around Paolo, Franz and Suggs.

[pepe1991]

I wrote bigger post but i'll just take notes from it:
by 2026 everybody but 3 players- Cole, Black & Jett will be FAs.

Heading into 2025-26 Suggs and Franz will be on big, new exstensions
Heading into 2026-27, Banchero will be max contract player

Jett Howard & Kobe Bufkin are only top 20 picks with sub 100 min played, Bufkin will return from injury next week and make Jett only top 20 pick to achive that. Last year nobody drafted witin top 20 had Jett- Howard scenario. Even Jake LaRavia, 20th pick in 2022, on 51-31 team collected 400 min.


Internal growth will just make you go that far in a league where free agency is kind a dead and trades are most reliable path toward changing directions.


As for coaching, i do fear that some of people will turn against Mosley after playoffs due offense, but in reality it's hard to have good offense when whole roster is made out of defensive players who's offense is either work in progress or simply does not exist.

[Skybox]

Of all the teams in the NBA that have a winning record, which is currently 18 of 30 (60%) teams, the Magic are…

Dead last in offensive rating
Dead last in turnovers
Dead last in 3PT made
Dead last in 3PT%

If anyone can look at those numbers and still say “I don’t think the Magic would benefit significantly from having better point guard play” then that person is simply too ignorant to have a reasonable discussion with about this.

These are not advanced stats…these are glaring undeniable problems. ORL is winning in spite of them but they are insurmountable. This team, because of its backcourt offense, has a very hard ceiling.

[Knightro]

Of all the teams in the NBA that have a winning record, which is currently 18 of 30 (60%) teams, the Magic are…

Dead last in offensive rating
Dead last in turnovers
Dead last in 3PT made
Dead last in 3PT%

If anyone can look at those numbers and still say “I don’t think the Magic would benefit significantly from having better point guard play” then that person is simply too ignorant to have a reasonable discussion with about this.

These are not advanced stats…these are glaring undeniable problems. ORL is winning in spite of them but they are insurmountable. This team, because of its backcourt offense, has a very hard ceiling.

Bingo.

This whole idea that somehow I look like a fool for complaining about the Magic’s short-term and long-term planning at the point guard spot just because the Magic have a good record this year is absolutely laughable.

The dirty little secret is that this is pretty much the absolute best a team can do with an offense this bad. The only difference between me and a lot of other people on this board is that I’m simply not waiting for the inevitable play-in loss or five game gentleman’s sweep in the first round to say so.

[Knightro]

I kinda sit somewhere in the middle of the debate. I don't think it was a dire need to be super active and have to fully commit ourselves to a FVV this last offseason, and Fultz was average last year in terms of steadying the team and his mid-range looking "back" and I was totally okay with his final year here as a stop-gap PG. I didn't think he was the future here, but I certainly didn't think he would look as broken as he has in the span of a season. I also don't take past inactivity with our young/rebuilding team to mean we will be inactive with glaring holes and a competitive team.

I just wanna reiterate and clarify one thing. I don’t care that the Magic didn’t sign FVV.

I simply believe he would’ve helped tremendously had they signed him.

I also am not upset that they didn’t push all their chips last offseason or this year at the trade deadline.

What I’m upset about is what I’ve been saying for the last six months they chose two paths (choosing to prioritize winning over pure player development, but ultimately taking a halfhearted approach to winning) and you can’t do both simultaneously at a high level.

And anyone who says “oh well look at their record. They’re doing so good this year. Obviously you’re wrong!” is not seeing the forest through the trees.

There’s just so much more to consider than just how they’re doing this season.

Multiple rotation guards are free agents to be and probably won’t return.

Unfortunately incumbent young draft picks that they have are probably not in a position to replace them without possibly significant growing pains because of how little they’ve played or how little they’ve been used this year in the role we’ll need them to play long-term.

And now you can also throw in the added wrinkle that the Magic actually are going to end this season with a good (and likely inflated) record, and thus will face pressure for the very first time in these guy’s tenure to actually tangibly take another step forward.

There’s just a lot more to it than “the record is better than you thought it would be this season, so obviously you’re wrong”

[eyriq]

Multiple rotation guards are free agents to be and probably won’t return.

Unfortunately incumbent young draft picks that they have are probably not in a position to replace them without possibly significant growing pains because of how little they’ve played or how little they’ve been used this year in the role we’ll need them to play long-term.

This is a great point.

Fultz and Harris were allowed to enter contract seasons while investing two lotto picks in guards.

If you zoom out and run a time lapse it might look like a seamless transition. In real time it looks clunky and uncoordinated.

Here's my question. What was the expected runway for this transition? One season? Several?

If several, was the plan to re-sign Fultz and Harris at some point? If so, why not sooner, why the need to evaluate further before pulling the trigger? Could you make a decision on runway (1 season transition plan vs several seasons) with the information we already had on Fultz and Harris and the work we did scouting AB and Jett?

The smoke about trading Fultz and Harris at the deadline tells me it might be a multi-season transition plan and Fultz and Harris are not likely to earn the right to pass the baton directly.

On the other hand, we didn't trade them so maybe we do plan on a one season transition plan and AB and Jett officially replace them next season.

[pepe1991]

We have 14-7 record without Fultz and 23-21 with him, it's clear that team no longer needs him.

But we still do need point guard who can at least be top 20 at his position. Like,we play Pacers and their backup PG is 3 classes over our guards, including in that game two starters.

[fendilim]

I think his offense is good enough to be extended for 4 years.

[SOUL]

What I’m upset about is what I’ve been saying for the last six months they chose two paths (choosing to prioritize winning over pure player development, but ultimately taking a halfhearted approach to winning) and you can’t do both simultaneously at a high level.

I agree with most of your views towards how we should approach the next season(s), I just have never really see eye to eye when it comes to narrowing things down as far as team-building methods - i.e. having to go 100% "winning" or 100% player development.

2021-2022 was 100% player development.
2022-2023 was 100% player development.
2023-2024 does not also have to be 100% player development because of our draft picks, which often makes a team bad again so you have to question if you should develop another player in 2024-2025 because of your record.

People are viewing the lens of drafting Black and Jett all wrong, IMO.

These picks were luxury. We were insanely injured and were probably more of a late lotto team than anything but got 6th, and got a Bulls pick that was once again higher than expected.

Jett and Black have thrown a lot of people for a loop, whether they have supremely high confidence in their abilities, or adjusting timelines with them in mind at the forefront. It's always been about Paolo and Franz.

So, you may ask, "If it's about Paolo and Franz, why didn't we go for it more this year or going into this year?" - because there were still question marks about other guys, including Suggs' improvement, Isaac's return and if he can be healthy, what Fultz would look like, how tertiary guys like WCJ and Cole would perform, etc. There were a lot of answers we got from this season, which was well worth keeping a lot of these guys to see.

They also didn't hamstring our future with a bad Fultz contract or commit themselves to anybody via trade deadline. Again, I would've liked at least a Tyus or Monte Morris or something, but it is what it is.

I think the FO look at Jett and Black as archetypes of players they want on the team who are cost-controlled for the next 4 years. Basically Roth IRA investments that they don't have to change the entire trajectory short-term by starting them, but will ultimately fill in as role guys on the team with usage increases as roles open up. But they're still getting in where they fit in. And that means if it's as a trade throw in piece, sure. If it means Black/Jett have to play backup to free agents, that too.

Is that a smart thing? I don't know. Did they want to trade 11 and didn't like any return? Maybe. I just hope they picked the guys they think had the best chance to maximize their abilities on this team with this plan and role they have planned for them.

That's what I'm most curious about. I want there to actually be a concrete plan for them to get minutes, even if it's backup minutes, but I also don't ascribe to this weird phenomenon of people questioning team building philosophy and strategies that are centered around our two lotto guys that aren't being looked at as the guys to lead us where we plan to go, but more so guys that will fall in line and help us with their specific strengths, slowly but surely.

You can't develop 5 young guys at a time. It's just impossible. I'm fine with the slow burn approach of slowly bringing guys along as our team gets better naturally without hitting the reset button every time a new guy joins the team. They''re here for 4 years at least. I think people need to ween themselves off of the expectation of every new, young player getting optimized minutes and role ASAP or else it's a failure. Ironically, the one year we felt okay with Okeke was after his red-shirt injury year where he had experience literally just via practicing and using NBA facilities and getting NBA strength with their weight program going into that season.

[SOUL]

This offseason will be exciting though. I don't know about in terms of activity or making the right moves, but it should signal either a shift in thinking or really expose them being fine with the timeline chugging along. I am expecting them to be active in the trade market more so than anything, with a significant signing in FA (which for us, would be like some mid-tier role player, but better than a lot of our free agencies).

[JoshuaPotter]

The plan was exposed the moment they drafted Black + Jett. I do not take our management as the poker types.They went for IQ and glue types. Black they mentioned fits in with their dream of position less basketball. Whereas Jett is much the same, but specializes in an area of need which is the 3pt spacing.

Moseby wanted Orlando to be a top 10 defense this season. He didn't say ANYTHING about offense iirc. We are top 5 defense atm.

We have some interesting moments coming up with our cap situation. I a self proclaimed intellectual think the story is coming along like we always read. Last year, when I complained that they didn't run plays thru Paolo on offense or for him, the reason is the same as why they aren't this year. They want him as point forward. Paolo is playing offense like a future point guard out there.

In terms of Black vs Jett and what their intangibles bring. Black brought help to the backcourt that makes him our second best defender in the backcourt from second 1. He is shooting good enough in 3pt drills that its a pleasant surprise. (Look up Amen / Assaur for not pleasant surprises.)

In the case of both, I expected neither Black nor Jett to crack rotation and Black has done it multiple times already this season. If you don't think we are mostly prioritizing winning then you just don't see why Black is getting yanked or having his role limited.

I have no idea how we are going to address our "G" depth at this point. Because many points aren't just valid but factual. I do know that they aren't just drinking the defense kool aide, they are chugging it. From here, the likely story will be "how can we improve efficiency".