What do you think of Coach Mosley's offensive schemes?

[KillMonger]

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[eyriq]

The plan was exposed the moment they drafted Black + Jett. I do not take our management as the poker types.They went for IQ and glue types. Black they mentioned fits in with their dream of position less basketball. Whereas Jett is much the same, but specializes in an area of need which is the 3pt spacing.

Moseby wanted Orlando to be a top 10 defense this season. He didn't say ANYTHING about offense iirc. We are top 5 defense atm.

We have some interesting moments coming up with our cap situation. I a self proclaimed intellectual think the story is coming along like we always read. Last year, when I complained that they didn't run plays thru Paolo on offense or for him, the reason is the same as why they aren't this year. They want him as point forward. Paolo is playing offense like a future point guard out there.

In terms of Black vs Jett and what their intangibles bring. Black brought help to the backcourt that makes him our second best defender in the backcourt from second 1. He is shooting good enough in 3pt drills that its a pleasant surprise. (Look up Amen / Assaur for not pleasant surprises.)

In the case of both, I expected neither Black nor Jett to crack rotation and Black has done it multiple times already this season. If you don't think we are mostly prioritizing winning then you just don't see why Black is getting yanked or having his role limited.

I have no idea how we are going to address our "G" depth at this point. Because many points aren't just valid but factual. I do know that they aren't just drinking the defense kool aide, they are chugging it. From here, the likely story will be "how can we improve efficiency".

Do you think Jett and AB can lock up a rotation spot next season? Do you think that's likely?

I kind of think that's what is going to happen given the Magic "don't skip steps".

[JoshuaPotter]

The plan was exposed the moment they drafted Black + Jett. I do not take our management as the poker types.They went for IQ and glue types. Black they mentioned fits in with their dream of position less basketball. Whereas Jett is much the same, but specializes in an area of need which is the 3pt spacing.

Moseby wanted Orlando to be a top 10 defense this season. He didn't say ANYTHING about offense iirc. We are top 5 defense atm.

We have some interesting moments coming up with our cap situation. I a self proclaimed intellectual think the story is coming along like we always read. Last year, when I complained that they didn't run plays thru Paolo on offense or for him, the reason is the same as why they aren't this year. They want him as point forward. Paolo is playing offense like a future point guard out there.

In terms of Black vs Jett and what their intangibles bring. Black brought help to the backcourt that makes him our second best defender in the backcourt from second 1. He is shooting good enough in 3pt drills that its a pleasant surprise. (Look up Amen / Assaur for not pleasant surprises.)

In the case of both, I expected neither Black nor Jett to crack rotation and Black has done it multiple times already this season. If you don't think we are mostly prioritizing winning then you just don't see why Black is getting yanked or having his role limited.

I have no idea how we are going to address our "G" depth at this point. Because many points aren't just valid but factual. I do know that they aren't just drinking the defense kool aide, they are chugging it. From here, the likely story will be "how can we improve efficiency".

Do you think Jett and AB can lock up a rotation spot next season? Do you think that's likely?

I kind of think that's what is going to happen given the Magic "don't skip steps".

AB / Jett were the draft and stash luxury that most teams in our position don't have. We knew that P+F+anything that resembles an NBA PG was good for .500 ball and viola here we are.

The question is not that we are skipping steps. But do Jett and AB develop quickly enough that our organizations hands are forced. I do not think the plan going into contract years was to Harris + Fultz regress to the point of us growing past them or needing a painfully obvious improvement.

I see more Ingles types signings at PG / G / and possibly upping Ingles contract on the horizon. This years pick will kept and we will draft and stash.

[MagicMatic]

The plan was exposed the moment they drafted Black + Jett. I do not take our management as the poker types.They went for IQ and glue types. Black they mentioned fits in with their dream of position less basketball. Whereas Jett is much the same, but specializes in an area of need which is the 3pt spacing.

Moseby wanted Orlando to be a top 10 defense this season. He didn't say ANYTHING about offense iirc. We are top 5 defense atm.

We have some interesting moments coming up with our cap situation. I a self proclaimed intellectual think the story is coming along like we always read. Last year, when I complained that they didn't run plays thru Paolo on offense or for him, the reason is the same as why they aren't this year. They want him as point forward. Paolo is playing offense like a future point guard out there.

In terms of Black vs Jett and what their intangibles bring. Black brought help to the backcourt that makes him our second best defender in the backcourt from second 1. He is shooting good enough in 3pt drills that its a pleasant surprise. (Look up Amen / Assaur for not pleasant surprises.)

In the case of both, I expected neither Black nor Jett to crack rotation and Black has done it multiple times already this season. If you don't think we are mostly prioritizing winning then you just don't see why Black is getting yanked or having his role limited.

I have no idea how we are going to address our "G" depth at this point. Because many points aren't just valid but factual. I do know that they aren't just drinking the defense kool aide, they are chugging it. From here, the likely story will be "how can we improve efficiency".

Do you think Jett and AB can lock up a rotation spot next season? Do you think that's likely?

I kind of think that's what is going to happen given the Magic "don't skip steps".

AB / Jett were the draft and stash luxury that most teams in our position don't have. We knew that P+F+anything that resembles an NBA PG was good for .500 ball and viola here we are.

The question is not that we are skipping steps. But do Jett and AB develop quickly enough that our organizations hands are forced. I do not think the plan going into contract years was to Harris + Fultz regress to the point of us growing past them or needing a painfully obvious improvement.

I see more Ingles types signings at PG / G / and possibly upping Ingles contract on the horizon. This years pick will kept and we will draft and stash.

Jett and AB were exactly the players this FO values and they will definitely help the problems with this roster...
They have extreme length for position and positional versatility.

The problem stems from two things...

Development and role. Neither player will be ready to heavily contribute to winning basketball until year 3. Why? Because the rest of the roster is young and the "vet" presence is basically Cole and Gary Harris. Thats just making the timeframe longer than necessary due to not acquiring other vets to speed up the process. Jett Howard cant even get minutes with Gary Harris and Suggs out of the game due to injuries.

The other issue is roster construction. Does Jett and AB fit next to Paolo, Suggs, and Franz? We dont really know yet and wont know until they are all getting real minutes. I'd lean toward "NO" currently because Franz and Paolo are at the point in their careers that its becoming obvious that they need to be surrounded by 2-3 guys that can reliably shoot on high volume. So far Suggs has been that guy only. We havent seen it yet with Jett and AB has been an outlet connector kind of guy so far in his rookie season. That isnt bad whatsoever, but the tandem of Paolo/Franz will take some very careful roster building to be successful.

Back to this thread. Mosely hasn't shown he can draw up plays for the shooters that exist already on the team when the going gets tough on Paolo and Franz. I already had a low opinion on Gary Harris and Cole Anthony, but I dont think they are flawed players to the point that they cant catch and shoot a ball. Paolo looks like a black hole on offense and it was one of the major reasons I was down on him during the draft. He needed to go to a team with an identity and not a team that would treat HIM as their identity. If he was killing it on the boards and defensively this would have been a different take.The games against Indiana and New York make me revert back to that opinion.

TLDR; Orlando needs to find answers to the roster short term while bringing along AB and Jett for minutes off the bench. Those guys arent really the issue here. It turns out Joe Ingles wasn't the answer to zero veteran point guards on the roster. They needed to find a real point guard yesterday and now they are stuck without one because the FO are idiots.

[JoshuaPotter]

Do you think Jett and AB can lock up a rotation spot next season? Do you think that's likely?

I kind of think that's what is going to happen given the Magic "don't skip steps".

AB / Jett were the draft and stash luxury that most teams in our position don't have. We knew that P+F+anything that resembles an NBA PG was good for .500 ball and viola here we are.

The question is not that we are skipping steps. But do Jett and AB develop quickly enough that our organizations hands are forced. I do not think the plan going into contract years was to Harris + Fultz regress to the point of us growing past them or needing a painfully obvious improvement.

I see more Ingles types signings at PG / G / and possibly upping Ingles contract on the horizon. This years pick will kept and we will draft and stash.

Jett and AB were exactly the players this FO values and they will definitely help the problems with this roster...
They have extreme length for position and positional versatility.

The problem stems from two things...

Development and role. Neither player will be ready to heavily contribute to winning basketball until year 3. Why? Because the rest of the roster is young and the "vet" presence is basically Cole and Gary Harris. Thats just making the timeframe longer than necessary due to not acquiring other vets to speed up the process. Jett Howard cant even get minutes with Gary Harris and Suggs out of the game due to injuries.

The other issue is roster construction. Does Jett and AB fit next to Paolo, Suggs, and Franz? We dont really know yet and wont know until they are all getting real minutes. I'd lean toward "NO" currently because Franz and Paolo are at the point in their careers that its becoming obvious that they need to be surrounded by 2-3 guys that can reliably shoot on high volume. So far Suggs has been that guy only. We havent seen it yet with Jett and AB has been an outlet connector kind of guy so far in his rookie season. That isnt bad whatsoever, but the tandem of Paolo/Franz will take some very careful roster building to be successful.

Back to this thread. Mosely hasn't shown he can draw up plays for the shooters that exist already on the team when the going gets tough on Paolo and Franz. I already had a low opinion on Gary Harris and Cole Anthony, but I dont think they are flawed players to the point that they cant catch and shoot a ball. Paolo looks like a black hole on offense and it was one of the major reasons I was down on him during the draft. He needed to go to a team with an identity and not a team that would treat HIM as their identity. If he was killing it on the boards and defensively this would have been a different take.The games against Indiana and New York make me revert back to that opinion.

TLDR; Orlando needs to find answers to the roster short term while bringing along AB and Jett for minutes off the bench. Those guys arent really the issue here. It turns out Joe Ingles wasn't the answer to zero veteran point guards on the roster. They needed to find a real point guard yesterday and now they are stuck without one because the FO are idiots.

I know we are in "if it isn't broke don't fix it mode" for the remainder of the season.

But as it turns out, the pathway to AB / J Howard finding minutes is pretty wide. The question is, is the franchise OK with losing to develop them next year? Going to say "no".

I pray this doesn't mean in the name of "chemistry" we resign existing players to big payout 1 year terms. I am resigned to the fact that this is in the playbook and was the plan the entire team. FO was just hoping Fultz / Harris would "step up" and earn it.

[eyriq]

Our offense will hinge on better ball control and better shooting from Paolo and Franz. They are terrific at scoring in the paint and them being respectable from three maximizes their points in the paint. That's my offensive improvement for dummies take.

[JoshuaPotter]

Our offense will hinge on better ball control and better shooting from Paolo and Franz. They are terrific at scoring in the paint and them being respectable from three maximizes their points in the paint. That's my offensive improvement for dummies take.

It's a plot twist. Paolo is PG on offense and PF on defense. If you take a deep breathe and look at these last two seasons in context that was the plan the whole time.

Not saying I agree with it. Like, you didn't get that final nail in the coffin regarding Paolo / Luka / Joker being the only 3 player leading in Points / Rebounds / Assists ?

[pepe1991]

Our offense will hinge on better ball control and better shooting from Paolo and Franz. They are terrific at scoring in the paint and them being respectable from three maximizes their points in the paint. That's my offensive improvement for dummies take.

It's a plot twist. Paolo is PG on offense and PF on defense. If you take a deep breathe and look at these last two seasons in context that was the plan the whole time.

Not saying I agree with it. Like, you didn't get that final nail in the coffin regarding Paolo / Luka / Joker being the only 3 player leading in Points / Rebounds / Assists ?

Today Paolo isn't PG, he is just guy who keeps the ball most in his hands. We are 3rd lowest team in APGs, by default he is "leading team in assists" but in reality he is just 45th player in APGs.

Maybe in future he can be that guy, but guy is 6'10 -250 pounds, much like Giannis, even when he CAN create, it's probably better when you don't need him to do that, and use his passing chops to put him as screener in pick&roll and dish assits if defense traps or rolls like madman and attacks rim when defense can't contain him 2 v 2.

[eyriq]

I was looking at play type data on NBA.com and our claim to fame is putbacks and cuts. Most everything else we either suck at or are mediocre at.

[Bensational]

I just don't think you can bring in a 36 year old Patty Mills and call it a day lol. We also can't really invest in every single young player at the same time. I'd argue Jett is just a liable to get traded as he is to get regular minutes next season.

It feels like we've really identified who are impact pieces are this year, there's not really a need for another year of that. Paolo, Franz, Suggs, Isaac (when healthy) .. that's it for now. Carter Jr. is solid, but just a guy. Cole is streaky and helpful at times but small. Black may or may not be a thing, but he can be a great connector piece at his peak.

You don't have to go all in, but there's only so much you can dedicate to potential and internal growth.

We're at a great position - don't get me wrong.. but people need to remember that we're on the timeline of Paolo and Franz, not of Black and Jett.

There's no rush to push in ALL of the chips, you don't want to be the Brooklyn Nets with Durant or the Suns currently.. but a team like the Knicks have made a lot of shrewd moves lately while not mortgaging many picks.

I don’t think things are as mutually exclusive as people portray them, and I think people have really lost perspective on how quickly a rebuilding team becomes a contending team. Giving Suggs, Black and Jett another year with more involvement on a team that has established a competitive floor is good for their development and good for the team. You just have to strike a balance between how much they destabilise the success vs the long term benefit. I mean, what difference does it make if a Tyus Jones or DeJounte Murray earns us an extra win in the next couple of seasons vs Suggs and Black becoming better equipped to support Paolo and Franz?

Saying we’re on Paolo and Franz’s timeline is pretty meaningless. What’s their timeline? And if they are demonstrating the ability to improve without a veteran supporting cast then why shake that up? Unless you’re adding someone to tip the team over the edge into contention, what’s the major advantage in adding guys over developing the young and rebuilding team that posters screamed and moaned for us to build in the first place? There just isn’t much precedence for teams accelerating from rebuild to contention. The only recent cases would be Atlanta and Dallas both reaching conference finals with Trae and Luka on rookie scale contracts, and both of them have fallen to pieces since then.

And you’re right, we can’t develop everyone all at once which is why Suggs and Black have taken a back seat this season to Paolo, Franz and Cole. Next season I can easily picture Suggs and Black taking some more possessions with the starters, and then taking on a more featured role with staggered subs and certain lineups.

[eyriq]

Our offense will hinge on better ball control and better shooting from Paolo and Franz. They are terrific at scoring in the paint and them being respectable from three maximizes their points in the paint. That's my offensive improvement for dummies take.

It's a plot twist. Paolo is PG on offense and PF on defense. If you take a deep breathe and look at these last two seasons in context that was the plan the whole time.

Not saying I agree with it. Like, you didn't get that final nail in the coffin regarding Paolo / Luka / Joker being the only 3 player leading in Points / Rebounds / Assists ?

Today Paolo isn't PG, he is just guy who keeps the ball most in his hands. We are 3rd lowest team in APGs, by default he is "leading team in assists" but in reality he is just 45th player in APGs.

Maybe in future he can be that guy, but guy is 6'10 -250 pounds, much like Giannis, even when he CAN create, it's probably better when you don't need him to do that, and use his passing chops to put him as screener in pick&roll and dish assits if defense traps or rolls like madman and attacks rim when defense can't contain him 2 v 2.

Paolo to me looks like a player that will be on constant triple double watch in his prime. I think he'll remain our primary playmaker. Who takes the role as secondary playmaker will be interesting. Probably is Franz, but could be AB. Franz has increased his assist share each season and is right now at 19.2%. His playmaking responsibilities overall are increasing and he's responding very nicely IMO.

[JoshuaPotter]

The resigning of Mose is basically the writing on the wall that the current core is likely in place and brass at the top wants to see how long it takes before the team tunes him out, demands he is fired or the results do not line up with expectations.

Writing is on the wall people.

[eyriq]

Another thought on this offense, we give ourselves the best chance to win when threes are a lower share of our FGA while emphasizing efficient two point shots and points in the paint.

There is no clear indication that increasing our three point volume or increasing the share of scoring off assists will increase our chances of winning a game. Just some food for thought.

Edit: There is a clear indication that increasing 3 point volume can compliment points in the paint, and the reason it doesn't translate directly into increasing our winning chances is likely because we can't find that balance between effective three point volume and points in the paint often enough to have mattered this season.

[drsd]

Another thought on this offense, we give ourselves the best chance to win when threes are a lower share of our FGA while emphasizing efficient two point shots and points in the paint.

There is no clear indication that increasing our three point volume or increasing the share of scoring off assists will increase our chances of winning a game. Just some food for thought.

Edit: There is a clear indication that increasing 3 point volume can compliment points in the paint, and the reason it doesn't translate directly into increasing our winning chances is likely because we can't find that balance between effective three point volume and points in the paint often enough to have mattered this season.

If the Magic had a sniper on the wing, F-Wagner and Banchero would be even more efficient in the paint.

[Bensational]

I think one major factor a lot of people have failed to account for when looking at the Magic's rankings in certain statistics is comparing that to what we allow from our opponents.

We're #1 at limiting opponent FGAs and #19 in opponent FG%, and #3 in opponent points allowed.

We're #4 in restricting teams to low 3pt attempts, and #5 in lowest 3pt makes, and #8 for lowest 3pt% allowed.

We're #2 in opponent offensive rebounds, #5 in defensive rebounds.

We're #1 in limiting opponent assists.

We're #2 in forced turnovers.

We are #5 in defensive rating (which is the offensive rating we allow for other teams when they play us).

So, sure, when you look at our stats and see us ranking towards the bottom of the league in Ortg, assists, to's, 3pm's and 3p% it might seem like we're in trouble but here's the kicker - we make teams play even worse than that when they play us. We make teams play our game more often than not, and when they do, we have a good chance of winning.

[eyriq]

He needs to throw out the by committee nonsense

[SOUL]

He needs to throw out the by committee nonsense

I see you say this often, but what do you mean exactly?

[eyriq]

He needs to throw out the by committee nonsense

I see you say this often, but what do you mean exactly?

Outside of Paolo and Franz there is no clear hierarchy, no clear identity. Suggs averages 26.6 mpg, WCJ 26.2 mpg, Harris 23.1, Cole 23, Fultz 22.3, and then another four players around 17-18 mpg, and then JI and Caleb. Players close that didn't start, and it's a bit of throwing stuff against the glass and seeing what sticks each night.

Suggs should average +30 mpg and close games, for a start.

A by committee approach results in high variance in contributions from players in terms of playing time and scoring.

[SOUL]

Outside of Paolo and Franz there is no clear hierarchy, no clear identity. Suggs averages 26.6 mpg, WCJ 26.2 mpg, Harris 23.1, Cole 23, Fultz 22.3, and then another four players around 17-18 mpg, and then JI and Caleb.

There is no hierarchy underneath Franz and Paolo because before this season, Suggs had not separated himself as Paolo and Franz had during their rookie/rookie-soph seasons. The fans themselves don't even consider many players outside of three of our guys as "keepers", so minutes are going to be highly varied. Injuries make this varied too.

Players close that didn't start, and it's a bit of throwing stuff against the glass and seeing what sticks each night.

Game by game our best players are highly varied. There are no 5 players you can point to that deserve to close every night. Sometimes it's Cole, sometimes it's AB, sometimes it's Moe, sometimes it's Isaac, sometimes it's Goga, sometimes it's WCJ. You usually will have a combination of Franz-Paolo-Suggs, but sometimes even Suggs isn't effective in the game and we need a weird lineup.

Suggs should average +30 mpg and close games, for a start.

He does close most games. I'd like to see him around 30, but he's a player that his minutes should ramp up in the post-season. I think with Fultz out of the picture it'll become like that next season.

We need to remember players get tired and you want them at optimal playing times. Suggs by far plays the hardest on the defensive end, and he's tasked to do a decent amount on offense as well - Jokic for his career averages 31 minutes while LeBron averages 38. I'll take less minutes for Suggs if it allows him to do more out there. If he can ramp up and still do that, obviously I prefer that.

[eyriq]

Outside of Paolo and Franz there is no clear hierarchy, no clear identity. Suggs averages 26.6 mpg, WCJ 26.2 mpg, Harris 23.1, Cole 23, Fultz 22.3, and then another four players around 17-18 mpg, and then JI and Caleb.

There is no hierarchy underneath Franz and Paolo because before this season, Suggs had not separated himself as Paolo and Franz had during their rookie/rookie-soph seasons. The fans themselves don't even consider many players outside of three of our guys as "keepers", so minutes are going to be highly varied. Injuries make this varied too.

Players close that didn't start, and it's a bit of throwing stuff against the glass and seeing what sticks each night.

Game by game our best players are highly varied. There are no 5 players you can point to that deserve to close every night. Sometimes it's Cole, sometimes it's AB, sometimes it's Moe, sometimes it's Isaac, sometimes it's Goga, sometimes it's WCJ. You usually will have a combination of Franz-Paolo-Suggs, but sometimes even Suggs isn't effective in the game and we need a weird lineup.

Suggs should average +30 mpg and close games, for a start.

He does close most games. I'd like to see him around 30, but he's a player that his minutes should ramp up in the post-season. I think with Fultz out of the picture it'll become like that next season.

We need to remember players get tired and you want them at optimal playing times. Suggs by far plays the hardest on the defensive end, and he's tasked to do a decent amount on offense as well - Jokic for his career averages 31 minutes while LeBron averages 38. I'll take less minutes for Suggs if it allows him to do more out there. If he can ramp up and still do that, obviously I prefer that.

I actually think the lack of a clear hierarchy beneath Paolo and Franz is a symptom of indecision and lack of strategy rather than a deliberate and adaptable approach. By not allowing Suggs to consistently play significant minutes or close games Mosley risks the establishment of a core group that can synergize effectively.

While adaptability is valuable having too fluid a rotation can lead to confusion and inconsistency on the court.

This isn't like a huge criticism of mine. I think overall he mostly does a great job, but it is a pet peeve. I hate it. When he says by committee I want to punch a kitten.