2023-2024 Regular Season Game 65: Indiana Pacers (35-29) at Orlando Magic (37-27) - 6pm

[thelead]

I think it’s just funny that there are Mosely defenders here when it comes to the offense. It was absolutely terrible and didn’t need to be.

Gary and Caleb took a combined 3 shots from 3 and were 1-3 … nah… that doesn’t fly when Paolo and Franz are 11-34fg and 1-11 from 3. That’s on Mosely to draw some **** up and stop resting his laurels on the also trash defense that was in this game.

I'm kinda just tired of posting the same stuff... and I'm sure everyone is tired of reading it

Mose needs to bring in an experienced offensive coordinator in the Mike D'Antoni mold. Don't know who is available but that needs to be another focus of Mose and Weltman this summer.

[Knightro]

I think it’s just funny that there are Mosely defenders here when it comes to the offense. It was absolutely terrible and didn’t need to be.

Gary and Caleb took a combined 3 shots from 3 and were 1-3 … nah… that doesn’t fly when Paolo and Franz are 11-34fg and 1-11 from 3. That’s on Mosely to draw some **** up and stop resting his laurels on the also trash defense that was in this game.

If Gary and Caleb are THAT bad at doing the one thing that gives them an nba career, then they should be moved. If not, then it’s Mosely that should be moved.

Watch on YouTube

I get that some of y'all don't like Mosley, but he can't just **** out a competent offense when he doesn't have good offensive players. The Magic didn't play a point guard last night.

Gary and Caleb don't dribble the basketball. They aren't going to get up shots or score points unless they receive passes. If Paolo and Franz aren't able (or willing) to make those passes in a given game, those guys just aren't going to get their shots.

Are we really upset that Mosley didn't decide to call a bunch of pin downs for Caleb Houstan? Are we losing our minds because they didn't run enough floppy action to get Gary Harris free?

Sometimes it just is what it is. Both of their best players and shot creators played poorly. It happens.

[eyriq]

Now if you believe Paolo, Franz, Suggs and Black's internal improvement will carry the Magic to new heights next year and beyond, that is your business, but I think it's unreasonable to expect a team this poor offensively to take a significant step forward without relatively significant personnel changes.

I think the Magic would be best served to have as many as 4 or 5 new rotation players next season. At least 3.

I believe their internal improvement should be the key driver. Just keep on the organic growth path. Prioritize:

1. A path to playing time for the lotto talents
2. Sustained usage for Suggs, Franz, and Paolo

I'm on board with your requests for new rotation players. I'm out on:
WCJ
Cole
Ingles
Fultz
Harris

[MagicMatic]

I think it’s just funny that there are Mosely defenders here when it comes to the offense. It was absolutely terrible and didn’t need to be.

Gary and Caleb took a combined 3 shots from 3 and were 1-3 … nah… that doesn’t fly when Paolo and Franz are 11-34fg and 1-11 from 3. That’s on Mosely to draw some **** up and stop resting his laurels on the also trash defense that was in this game.

If Gary and Caleb are THAT bad at doing the one thing that gives them an nba career, then they should be moved. If not, then it’s Mosely that should be moved.

Watch on YouTube

I get that some of y'all don't like Mosley, but he can't just **** out a competent offense when he doesn't have good offensive players. The Magic didn't play a point guard last night.

Gary and Caleb don't dribble the basketball. They aren't going to get up shots or score points unless they receive passes. If Paolo and Franz aren't able (or willing) to make those passes in a given game, those guys just aren't going to get their shots.

Are we really upset that Mosley didn't decide to call a bunch of pin downs for Caleb Houstan? Are we losing our minds because they didn't run enough floppy action to get Gary Harris free?

Sometimes it just is what it is. Both of their best players and shot creators played poorly. It happens.

I get that people are making this a chicken / egg argument. The issue is that nobody found either of these guys in any action last night. The offense is just Paolo/Franz in isolation hoping to create something in space OR not. That is garbage.

SO which is it?

Defend Mosely for not having the roster while claiming that we shouldnt make moves at the deadline or offseason?

OR Claim its Mosely's fault for not knowing how to run a real offense and think we need to make moves?

People are flipping between these two options regardless of if it makes sense.

[eyriq]

I think it’s just funny that there are Mosely defenders here when it comes to the offense. It was absolutely terrible and didn’t need to be.

Gary and Caleb took a combined 3 shots from 3 and were 1-3 … nah… that doesn’t fly when Paolo and Franz are 11-34fg and 1-11 from 3. That’s on Mosely to draw some **** up and stop resting his laurels on the also trash defense that was in this game.

If Gary and Caleb are THAT bad at doing the one thing that gives them an nba career, then they should be moved. If not, then it’s Mosely that should be moved.

Watch on YouTube

I get that some of y'all don't like Mosley, but he can't just **** out a competent offense when he doesn't have good offensive players. The Magic didn't play a point guard last night.

Gary and Caleb don't dribble the basketball. They aren't going to get up shots or score points unless they receive passes. If Paolo and Franz aren't able (or willing) to make those passes in a given game, those guys just aren't going to get their shots.

Are we really upset that Mosley didn't decide to call a bunch of pin downs for Caleb Houstan? Are we losing our minds because they didn't run enough floppy action to get Gary Harris free?

Sometimes it just is what it is. Both of their best players and shot creators played poorly. It happens.

I get that people are making this a chicken / egg argument. The issue is that nobody found either of these guys in any action last night. The offense is just Paolo/Franz in isolation hoping to create something in space OR not. That is garbage.

It's hard to critique a coach and some posters just don't like having Mosley questioned, but honestly, he's as junior as the rest of the team. I think he's got as much star power as Paolo and Franz do in terms of being a franchise quality coach, but it doesn't mean he's already a franchise quality coach.

[JoshuaPotter]

Now if you believe Paolo, Franz, Suggs and Black's internal improvement will carry the Magic to new heights next year and beyond, that is your business, but I think it's unreasonable to expect a team this poor offensively to take a significant step forward without relatively significant personnel changes.

I think the Magic would be best served to have as many as 4 or 5 new rotation players next season. At least 3.

I believe their internal improvement should be the key driver. Just keep on the organic growth path. Prioritize:

1. A path to playing time for the lotto talents
2. Sustained usage for Suggs, Franz, and Paolo

I'm on board with your requests for new rotation players. I'm out on:
WCJ
Cole
Ingles
Fultz
Harris

I am starting to sour on Cole too.

Unlike Anthony Black. Where if he steps up it is a nice surprise, not what we expected, unexpected development, future HOF player.....ect ect.

Cole up until this offseason wanted to be a starter in the NBA. Dude straight up had several chances this year to outplay our mediocre backcourt and flopped. This isn't my usual narrative spin. After the last two games though, I need to stop defending him. He just isn't doing as well as I hoped he would even with a dedicated backup G instant offense role.

[Magicman125]

Now if you believe Paolo, Franz, Suggs and Black's internal improvement will carry the Magic to new heights next year and beyond, that is your business, but I think it's unreasonable to expect a team this poor offensively to take a significant step forward without relatively significant personnel changes.

I think the Magic would be best served to have as many as 4 or 5 new rotation players next season. At least 3.

I believe their internal improvement should be the key driver. Just keep on the organic growth path. Prioritize:

1. A path to playing time for the lotto talents
2. Sustained usage for Suggs, Franz, and Paolo

I'm on board with your requests for new rotation players. I'm out on:
WCJ
Cole
Ingles
Fultz
Harris

I agree about Ingles, Fultz, and Harris. But I think WCJ and Cole could still be useful, just further down the rotation than they are for us this year. They are also very tradeable contracts though, and I'm not super intent on keeping them. More of an "if the right deal presents itself" kind of feeling I have about them.

[drsd]

3 point shooting is important but not everything. We had two good shooters in the backcourt and offense looked bad. Thats why we need guard who can handle the ball and penetrate more than pure shooter. I think theory that we need only shhoters around Paolo and Franz is false. We need different tools to attack defenses.

You realize the Magic guards went 7/23 = 30.4% in this game. Correct?

With the 3-ball it was 2/10 = 20%.

This game wasn't lost because of "ball handling". It was lost because of HORRIBLE shooting lines by every Magician except Isaac, Ingles, and M-Wagner. And no, G-Harris going 2-3 is not a good shooting line. The dude played 28 minutes meaning he averaged a FG attempt 9 minutes and 20 seconds.

[drsd]

I think it’s just funny that there are Mosely defenders here when it comes to the offense. It was absolutely terrible and didn’t need to be.

Gary and Caleb took a combined 3 shots from 3 and were 1-3 … nah… that doesn’t fly when Paolo and Franz are 11-34fg and 1-11 from 3. That’s on Mosely to draw some **** up and stop resting his laurels on the also trash defense that was in this game.

If Gary and Caleb are THAT bad at doing the one thing that gives them an nba career, then they should be moved. If not, then it’s Mosely that should be moved. The offense last night looked like a varsity high school game.

[ibraheim718]

knicks fan coming in peace.. but what the fk is wrong with franz??? he was one of the better players on my fantasy team for much of the season… now with fantasy playoffs starting he’s been a liability lately.. what gives!?

DaGawd is DaGawd. Did the Knicks trade Julius Randle at the deadline?

nope...and I've been seeing you post here often this season. ditched us for orlando huh?

I drew a line so I can't cross it. As soon Randle is gone I'll take an interest again. It was just a bad coincidence that the team got the guy I hated watching play basketball the most.

[Husky1]

Now if you believe Paolo, Franz, Suggs and Black's internal improvement will carry the Magic to new heights next year and beyond, that is your business, but I think it's unreasonable to expect a team this poor offensively to take a significant step forward without relatively significant personnel changes.

I think the Magic would be best served to have as many as 4 or 5 new rotation players next season. At least 3.

I believe their internal improvement should be the key driver. Just keep on the organic growth path. Prioritize:

1. A path to playing time for the lotto talents
2. Sustained usage for Suggs, Franz, and Paolo

I'm on board with your requests for new rotation players. I'm out on:
WCJ
Cole
Ingles
Fultz
Harris

I agree about Ingles, Fultz, and Harris. But I think WCJ and Cole could still be useful, just further down the rotation than they are for us this year. They are also very tradeable contracts though, and I'm not super intent on keeping them. More of an "if the right deal presents itself" kind of feeling I have about them.

This is it. Im really low on WCJ and Cole (basically done with), but can get behind them on lesser role further down rotation. We can't possibly start WCJ as our C next year, its a tough watch. We need to upgrade that spot along with a decent PG. Fultz, Harris, Okeke and Ingles is over 40 million wasted money we can use to get a decent C and PG. Yikes that is a lot of money for the return they give us. Can we not sign a reliable Vet who's not completely cooked for once next year ? With Fultz, I feel like if he doesn't sign a vet min contract here then I can see him being completely out of league next year.

[zaymon]

3 point shooting is important but not everything. We had two good shooters in the backcourt and offense looked bad. Thats why we need guard who can handle the ball and penetrate more than pure shooter. I think theory that we need only shhoters around Paolo and Franz is false. We need different tools to attack defenses.

You realize the Magic guards went 7/23 = 30.4% in this game. Correct?

With the 3-ball it was 2/10 = 20%.

This game wasn't lost because of "ball handling". It was lost because of HORRIBLE shooting lines by every Magician except Isaac, Ingles, and M-Wagner. And no, G-Harris going 2-3 is not a good shooting line. The dude played 28 minutes meaning he averaged a FG attempt 9 minutes and 20 seconds.

In the starting lineup we had guards who are good shooters and bad ball handlers and you think our offense was bad becouse we had shooters who you dont like personally, or are few % below best snipers ? Those shooters shot three 3s all game. You think thats becouse they are not efficient enough shooters or there is not enough ball handling and playmaking in the lineup and shot distribution sucks ?
Wagner and Banchero are exhausted by carrying both defense and offense. You think it would help more if they could pass to 40% shooter instead of 38% or that there is a player who can help them handling the ball ?
Would having better shooters help ? Sure, but its like arguing about what is the best kind of tyre when you engine is malfuctioning.

[Skybox]

Suggs is not a PG...but he's proven to be best available in combination with a SG like Harris or Houstan. That's our most effective starting lineup, but it's not a master stroke - it's just the best available from a badly assembled backcourt roster. Fair enough (for now).

Suggs is out vs a team with an All-NBA level young PG and we basically park AB on the bench to start a pure shooter and a marginal 3&D guy on Hali? I don't get it...the idea that we're so dependent on Suggs as the primary ball handler in the backcourt is a really sad state.

Also, kudos to Nesmith - he's become a very formidable, energetic defender.

Missing Suggs these last two nights has nothing to do with him being a 'PG'. It's 3 things:

1) His defense that generates easy points
2) His 3pt shooting
3) His energy

The fact that he can handle some PG duties is a bonus.... and unfortunately a necessity with the terrible backcourt Weltman has put together.

We absolutely need to go get us a Jrue Holiday, Murray, or even DLo level PG on this roster this summer though.

My point is that Suggs is not a PG at all...but he's still the best guy for the job on this s**t roster. You don't to defend Suggs from my awful critique. But I keep hearing that AB is an elite defender, is a shockingly good 3pt shooter, and definitely an energy guy...seems like an easy pick to fill in when Suggs is nursing his usual football-style contusions.

My whole concern is how did a stiff 6'8 spot up specialist become the choice ahead of AB (with Suggs out) playing IND.

[eyriq]

I believe their internal improvement should be the key driver. Just keep on the organic growth path. Prioritize:

1. A path to playing time for the lotto talents
2. Sustained usage for Suggs, Franz, and Paolo

I'm on board with your requests for new rotation players. I'm out on:
WCJ
Cole
Ingles
Fultz
Harris

I agree about Ingles, Fultz, and Harris. But I think WCJ and Cole could still be useful, just further down the rotation than they are for us this year. They are also very tradeable contracts though, and I'm not super intent on keeping them. More of an "if the right deal presents itself" kind of feeling I have about them.

This is it. Im really low on WCJ and Cole (basically done with), but can get behind them on lesser role further down rotation. We can't possibly start WCJ as our C next year, its a tough watch. We need to upgrade that spot along with a decent PG. Fultz, Harris, Okeke and Ingles is over 40 million wasted money we can use to get a decent C and PG. Yikes that is a lot of money for the return they give us. Can we not sign a reliable Vet who's not completely cooked for once next year ? With Fultz, I feel like if he doesn't sign a vet min contract here then I can see him being completely out of league next year.

It's a ton of money and we should definitely consolidate. Just don't go star shopping. It'll be too disruptive. It comes at the expense of roster depth and chemistry.

[eyriq]

Our defense is good enough that we can win with poor shooting. Our team TS% is .575, below the league average of .581. We could probably shoot .559 and still be a .500 win team.

Ironically, AB is right on that mark, and, unironically, Paolo and Cole are below it.

Paolo and Cole are the keys to us improving our shooting.

[Bergmaniac]

3 point shooting is important but not everything. We had two good shooters in the backcourt and offense looked bad. Thats why we need guard who can handle the ball and penetrate more than pure shooter. I think theory that we need only shhoters around Paolo and Franz is false. We need different tools to attack defenses.

You realize the Magic guards went 7/23 = 30.4% in this game. Correct?

With the 3-ball it was 2/10 = 20%.

This game wasn't lost because of "ball handling". It was lost because of HORRIBLE shooting lines by every Magician except Isaac, Ingles, and M-Wagner. And no, G-Harris going 2-3 is not a good shooting line. The dude played 28 minutes meaning he averaged a FG attempt 9 minutes and 20 seconds.

About half of the missed shots of were the result of Cole forcing tough shots after ballhogging instead of the team even trying to create good looks. Harris and Houstan got so few shots because they are not guys who create for themselves and the players who were supposed to create for them were really bad at it in this game. So yes, the poor shooting had a lot to do with the poor ball handling.

[eyriq]

Listening to Simmons pod and they are talking about the league refs changing how they are calling the game. Like, it sounds like they are allowing a lot more physicality and changed the rules post All-Star break.

Explains why Franz is struggling.

[Bergmaniac]

Franz's biggest problem post All-star break has been his dreadful 3 point shooting which has nothing to do with the refs. His 3pt percentage in this period is 15.6, he has only made 6 total threes in 10 games. His 2 point percentage is actually up a bit up since All-Star break. He is shooting 0.9 fewer FTs but he is also taking 3 fewer shots per game, so his foul drawing rate is virtually the same.

[eyriq]

Franz's biggest problem post All-star break has been his dreadful 3 point shooting which has nothing to do with the refs. His 3pt percentage in this period is 15.6, he has only made 6 total threes in 10 games. His 2 point percentage is actually up a bit up since All-Star break. He is shooting 0.9 fewer FTs but he is also taking 3 fewer shots per game, so his foul drawing rate is virtually the same.

Whelp, there goes that theory

[SHAQ32]

Franz's biggest problem post All-star break has been his dreadful 3 point shooting which has nothing to do with the refs. His 3pt percentage in this period is 15.6, he has only made 6 total threes in 10 games. His 2 point percentage is actually up a bit up since All-Star break. He is shooting 0.9 fewer FTs but he is also taking 3 fewer shots per game, so his foul drawing rate is virtually the same.

Whelp, there goes that theory

Yup