Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II

[SOUL]

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- Trades are now a part of free agency and hopefully we are on lists for guys wanting to come here.
- JI is a special player and when he plays it helps the rest of the guys which is what all good players do.
- Top 3 scorers (Paolo, Franz, Suggs) were all 22 and under
- Talked about winning on the margins and how they will now focus on the draft and free agency
- Talked about how we were just one half away from being a play in team and they will look to improve this team
- Also thanked the fans which is why our homecourt record was so great all year.
- Said players won't let Mose fail and buy into everything he says. He has been a huge part of this growth which is why they extended him.

But this goes against the narrative that they will sit on their hands because they did so in prior years!

[tooler]

But this goes against the narrative that they will sit on their hands because they did so in prior years!

To be fair to the narrative, they haven't done anything yet. Just talk.

[SOUL]

To be fair to the narrative, they haven't done anything yet. Just talk.

It's only a narrative because of impatience from fans though. When you decide to rebuild via draft, and then by year two fans are calling for overhauls, you might as well just smash a repeat button from last time where you trade Oladipo everyone and decide to build around Vuc-Fournier-Gordon to an 8th seed.

I'm only saying this because I've had lengthy debates with people about Suggs and Isaac prior to this year. Suggs being a "bust", saying we should give up on Isaac because he'll never get healthy. Well, if the "trust the roster/process" angle was literally just letting everybody show what they have, then I'll accept Fultz staying too long if it meant that Suggs and Isaac also got to prove their worth.

Looking back, I can really only say they "needed" to address Fultz' spot by getting a better guard at the trade deadline. That was probably a small misstep, even if their goal this year was literally just to get playoff experience and that's it.

That being said, the overarching needs of a point guard + shooting/scoring talent seems like it will be addressed this offseason, which is where I've always said it's time for them to put up or shut up. That's when it'll border on malpractice.

[Optimus_Steel]

They watch the games as well, they see numbers, they know we have deficiencies that need addressing.

[tiderulz]

To be fair to the narrative, they haven't done anything yet. Just talk.

It's only a narrative because of impatience from fans though. When you decide to rebuild via draft, and then by year two fans are calling for overhauls, you might as well just smash a repeat button from last time where you trade Oladipo everyone and decide to build around Vuc-Fournier-Gordon to an 8th seed.

I'm only saying this because I've had lengthy debates with people about Suggs and Isaac prior to this year. Suggs being a "bust", saying we should give up on Isaac because he'll never get healthy. Well, if the "trust the roster/process" angle was literally just letting everybody show what they have, then I'll accept Fultz staying too long if it meant that Suggs and Isaac also got to prove their worth.

Looking back, I can really only say they "needed" to address Fultz' spot by getting a better guard at the trade deadline. That was probably a small misstep, even if their goal this year was literally just to get playoff experience and that's it.

That being said, the overarching needs of a point guard + shooting/scoring talent seems like it will be addressed this offseason, which is where I've always said it's time for them to put up or shut up. That's when it'll border on malpractice.

thats a bit of an exaggeration. Most fans werent calling for an overhaul, just fixing a glaring issue by getting either a PG or SG that could shoot.

[SOUL]

thats a bit of an exaggeration. Most fans werent calling for an overhaul, just fixing a glaring issue by getting either a PG or SG that could shoot.

It's not because I spent entire offseasons debating people lol. Even if it's a loud minority, there were people unhappy we kept a majority of the roster.

If people were truly annoyed at ONE single move Weltman didnt do (getting a PG or SG at the deadline) - then there would be way less debates on his forum over the last year or so... because I have the same criticism. He should've made one move at least to bolster that.

But now, after the season has ended, I think most people can truly agree that the real work is coming up.. and if the biggest thing was not getting a player at the deadline.. then it kinda is what it is. To be fair, it almost bit us in the ass down the stretch.

[BadMofoPimp]

To be fair to the narrative, they haven't done anything yet. Just talk.

It's only a narrative because of impatience from fans though. When you decide to rebuild via draft, and then by year two fans are calling for overhauls, you might as well just smash a repeat button from last time where you trade Oladipo everyone and decide to build around Vuc-Fournier-Gordon to an 8th seed.

I'm only saying this because I've had lengthy debates with people about Suggs and Isaac prior to this year. Suggs being a "bust", saying we should give up on Isaac because he'll never get healthy. Well, if the "trust the roster/process" angle was literally just letting everybody show what they have, then I'll accept Fultz staying too long if it meant that Suggs and Isaac also got to prove their worth.

Looking back, I can really only say they "needed" to address Fultz' spot by getting a better guard at the trade deadline. That was probably a small misstep, even if their goal this year was literally just to get playoff experience and that's it.

That being said, the overarching needs of a point guard + shooting/scoring talent seems like it will be addressed this offseason, which is where I've always said it's time for them to put up or shut up. That's when it'll border on malpractice.

The asking prices were probably too high which is why this team won't be throwing big money at aging former stars.

[Bensational]

I think we go hard after Donovan Mitchell. Most likely big name to get traded, he fits what we need, and WeHam had him work out twice during his draft class so they’re fans from way back.

Like WeHam said, hopefully the team has done enough to be on his radar too.

[basketballRob]

Weltman's interview.

https://969thegame.iheart.com/featured/open-mike/content/2024-04-16-magic-president-jeff-weltman-no-validation-for-proving-doubters-wrong/

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[KillMonger]

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[Message Boar]

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Watching the Magic get hammered when F-Wagner was out was sobering. The above surely points to the Magic's need of a healthy set of core players. But that is kind of obvious though.

Honestly, that Suggs only played 27.0 minutes per game is still puzzling to me. My best guess it's that it's that he expends so much energy per minute on the floor, otherwise I can't explain it. Hell even from a shooting standpoint we could use more of him. Waiting forever for him to check back in in the 4th quarter had me frustrated on more than one occasion.

It's less minutes per game than his rookie season. Hopefully he's ready to go hard in the playoffs, because yeah, if any of our core are out or limited, we get a lot worse in a hurry.

[drsd]

They watch the games as well, they see numbers, they know we have deficiencies that need addressing.

Orlando went from a 12 game improvement to adding a 13 game improvement. Please Let's start a "Management is doing a good job" type vibe.

[tiderulz]

thats a bit of an exaggeration. Most fans werent calling for an overhaul, just fixing a glaring issue by getting either a PG or SG that could shoot.

It's not because I spent entire offseasons debating people lol. Even if it's a loud minority, there were people unhappy we kept a majority of the roster.

If people were truly annoyed at ONE single move Weltman didnt do (getting a PG or SG at the deadline) - then there would be way less debates on his forum over the last year or so... because I have the same criticism. He should've made one move at least to bolster that.

But now, after the season has ended, I think most people can truly agree that the real work is coming up.. and if the biggest thing was not getting a player at the deadline.. then it kinda is what it is. To be fair, it almost bit us in the ass down the stretch.

ehh, "bit us in the ass" to me is needing a backup position but not getting it thinking we could make it thru it. they have doubled down on Fultz when he hasnt been able to take that next step. Just feels like a wasted year, left wondering what we could have done with even an average PG running the show.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

thats a bit of an exaggeration. Most fans werent calling for an overhaul, just fixing a glaring issue by getting either a PG or SG that could shoot.

It's not because I spent entire offseasons debating people lol. Even if it's a loud minority, there were people unhappy we kept a majority of the roster.

If people were truly annoyed at ONE single move Weltman didnt do (getting a PG or SG at the deadline) - then there would be way less debates on his forum over the last year or so... because I have the same criticism. He should've made one move at least to bolster that.

But now, after the season has ended, I think most people can truly agree that the real work is coming up.. and if the biggest thing was not getting a player at the deadline.. then it kinda is what it is. To be fair, it almost bit us in the ass down the stretch.

ehh, "bit us in the ass" to me is needing a backup position but not getting it thinking we could make it thru it. they have doubled down on Fultz when he hasnt been able to take that next step. Just feels like a wasted year, left wondering what we could have done with even an average PG running the show.

Bingo and it’ll all come down to this off-season. There’s no reason we don’t bring in 2 new bodies who can ball.

[tiderulz]

It's not because I spent entire offseasons debating people lol. Even if it's a loud minority, there were people unhappy we kept a majority of the roster.

If people were truly annoyed at ONE single move Weltman didnt do (getting a PG or SG at the deadline) - then there would be way less debates on his forum over the last year or so... because I have the same criticism. He should've made one move at least to bolster that.

But now, after the season has ended, I think most people can truly agree that the real work is coming up.. and if the biggest thing was not getting a player at the deadline.. then it kinda is what it is. To be fair, it almost bit us in the ass down the stretch.

ehh, "bit us in the ass" to me is needing a backup position but not getting it thinking we could make it thru it. they have doubled down on Fultz when he hasnt been able to take that next step. Just feels like a wasted year, left wondering what we could have done with even an average PG running the show.

Bingo and it’ll all come down to this off-season. There’s no reason we don’t bring in 2 new bodies who can ball.

i certainly hope so. We still need more talent on the team.

[SOUL]

ehh, "bit us in the ass" to me is needing a backup position but not getting it thinking we could make it thru it. they have doubled down on Fultz when he hasnt been able to take that next step. Just feels like a wasted year, left wondering what we could have done with even an average PG running the show.

Couldn't disagree more. Getting 5th seed and playoff experience for these guys is not a wasted year at all. I think any player we realistically could've acquired maybe gets us out of the first round, but we'd still get outclassed by more experienced teams, especially Boston/Philly/even a healthy Bucks who don't even look that good, Knicks, etc.

The Thunder were a play-in loser last year to the 1st seed, and even this year they didn't use many assets to get way better other than a Gordon Hayward. They know that their actual time is probably 2025-2028. Would I have made a move this year for them if I was GM? Probably. Some of their fans really wanted to, but my overarching point is that they're a year or two ahead of us in their rebuild, have the #1 seed, and even they didn't really make a big move. It's a strategy of loading the gun when you have the best shot, aka moving the right assets for an actual impact guy. You can make smaller, tertiary moves that might move the needle a little, but it's not really a big thing in the grand scheme of things other than small upgrades.

It doesn't matter if Tyus Jones or whoever is here or not - they're getting targeted on defense and it doesn't change the fact that our top 2 guys are inefficient scorers at the moment (Paolo especially), while Franz can't shoot threes, going into their first playoffs ever. I think fans have deluded themselves into thinking one move this year would've made all the difference for our ceiling but I think that right now we're at best 2nd round fodder for Boston regardless if we had made a move for a better backup/emergency PG or not.

Doubling down on Fultz is extending him. I'm not even sure he gets more than spot minutes in the playoffs because of foul trouble and I don't think he comes back here unless it's for very cheap vet sorta deal where he's a 3rd string guy.

Now, it could very well in retrospect become wasted if we don't do anything in the offseason either, because there are clearly holes on the roster, but Weltman seems very adamant that movement will happen. He seems very forthcoming compared to past years where he would repeat the mantra of continuity, and I'm glad that the holes in the roster are very clear because that means they can have specific FA or trade targets to try and fix that.

And we all know there is a lot of movement after failed playoff runs from teams expected to do more. So I expect a great learning lesson these playoffs and to come into next season with some actual perimeter help, which is where I will be very tough on them if they fail to address that.

[tiderulz]

ehh, "bit us in the ass" to me is needing a backup position but not getting it thinking we could make it thru it. they have doubled down on Fultz when he hasnt been able to take that next step. Just feels like a wasted year, left wondering what we could have done with even an average PG running the show.

Couldn't disagree more. Getting 5th seed and playoff experience for these guys is not a wasted year at all. I think any player we realistically could've acquired maybe gets us out of the first round, but we'd still get outclassed by more experienced teams, especially Boston/Philly/even a healthy Bucks who don't even look that good, Knicks, etc.

The Thunder were a play-in loser last year to the 1st seed, and even this year they didn't use many assets to get way better other than a Gordon Hayward. They know that their actual time is probably 2025-2028. Would I have made a move this year for them if I was GM? Probably. Some of their fans really wanted to, but my overarching point is that they're a year or two ahead of us in their rebuild, have the #1 seed, and even they didn't really make a big move. It's a strategy of loading the gun when you have the best shot, aka moving the right assets for an actual impact guy. You can make smaller, tertiary moves that might move the needle a little, but it's not really a big thing in the grand scheme of things other than small upgrades.

It doesn't matter if Tyus Jones or whoever is here or not - they're getting targeted on defense and it doesn't change the fact that our top 2 guys are inefficient scorers at the moment (Paolo especially), while Franz can't shoot threes, going into their first playoffs ever. I think fans have deluded themselves into thinking one move this year would've made all the difference for our ceiling but I think that right now we're at best 2nd round fodder for Boston regardless if we had made a move for a better backup/emergency PG or not.

Doubling down on Fultz is extending him. I'm not even sure he gets more than spot minutes in the playoffs because of foul trouble and I don't think he comes back here unless it's for very cheap vet sorta deal where he's a 3rd string guy.

Now, it could very well in retrospect become wasted if we don't do anything in the offseason either, because there are clearly holes on the roster, but Weltman seems very adamant that movement will happen. He seems very forthcoming compared to past years where he would repeat the mantra of continuity, and I'm glad that the holes in the roster are very clear because that means they can have specific FA or trade targets to try and fix that.

And we all know there is a lot of movement after failed playoff runs from teams expected to do more. So I expect a great learning lesson these playoffs and to come into next season with some actual perimeter help, which is where I will be very tough on them if they fail to address that.

getting the 5th seed and making playoffs is great. But we are bringing a knife to a gun fight, for the playoffs overall. I believe we have beaten all the teams we could play. I believe with a legit PG, we could go deeper into the playoffs. With our current guard rotation, we will have trouble with Cleveland and wont go further in my opinion. Yes, its great for the team, you aim to improve every year. But when you catch lightning, take the next step forward if you can. Yes, dont make a dumb trade and i wasnt on the phone calls with other teams (assuming they had calls with other teams) but it seems like there should have been a move available. OKC has more talent on their roster than we do including a soon to be superstar (if not already) in SGA, and then added Holmgen, so they arent someone i would compare us with. Yes, Tyus might gave been targeted on defense, but so will Fultz and Anthony. But he can shoot from 3 and would provide some better spacing. I still think Murray was available as that pairing isnt working in Atlanta.

[Black and Blue]

They watch the games as well, they see numbers, they know we have deficiencies that need addressing.

Orlando went from a 12 game improvement to adding a 13 game improvement. Please Let's start a "Management is doing a good job" type vibe.

Well said. Also, Weltman saying they will be active in trade discussions is the big thing we wanted to hear and he said it. Color me happy.

It may just be me, but I also sensed a bit of recognition in Weltman's voice that he doesn't necessarily expect this particular team to set the world on fire in the playoffs and win a championship or anything. This is a good thing as it's clear the team has an understanding of where they need to improve, knows it's a blessing just to get this experience, and hey plan to work hard this summer.

The talents of Paolo, Franz and Suggs also pushes this ownership a bit to open their pockets. They can't keep this group intact and simultaneously convince their stars they are serious about improving. This all adds up to a pretty huge window after this season concludes for this franchise. Buckle up.

[zaymon]

They watch the games as well, they see numbers, they know we have deficiencies that need addressing.

Orlando went from a 12 game improvement to adding a 13 game improvement. Please Let's start a "Management is doing a good job" type vibe.

Well said. Also, Weltman saying they will be active in trade discussions is the big thing we wanted to hear and he said it. Color me happy.

It may just be me, but I also sensed a bit of recognition in Weltman's voice that he doesn't necessarily expect this particular team to set the world on fire in the playoffs and win a championship or anything. This is a good thing as it's clear the team has an understanding of where they need to improve, knows it's a blessing just to get this experience, and hey plan to work hard this summer.

The talents of Paolo, Franz and Suggs also pushes this ownership a bit to open their pockets. They can't keep this group intact and simultaneously convince their stars they are serious about improving. This all adds up to a pretty huge window after this season concludes for this franchise. Buckle up.

Weltman still wondering how his masterplan of getting back to lottery failed. How its possible they won this many games with Fultz, Cole and Black as trio of point guards ?
I was assuming front office knew we were constructed to develop not win this season and Weltman just confirmed it. Personally i think he went step too far with keeping Fultz and that it affected some players confidence- thinking about Franz. In the grand scheme of thinks its not that important. Right now its better to not use assets at all than to use it unwise.
Another thing is that players didnt want to come here before. We can argue if Vucevic and Gordon were dealt too late, but if the right deal was not there its all moot.

[drsd]

ehh, "bit us in the ass" to me is needing a backup position but not getting it thinking we could make it thru it. they have doubled down on Fultz when he hasnt been able to take that next step. Just feels like a wasted year, left wondering what we could have done with even an average PG running the show.

Couldn't disagree more. Getting 5th seed and playoff experience for these guys is not a wasted year at all. I think any player we realistically could've acquired maybe gets us out of the first round, but we'd still get outclassed by more experienced teams, especially Boston/Philly/even a healthy Bucks who don't even look that good, Knicks, etc.

Most of us were talking about how good the 10 seed would be for this team's growth. Of course we should all be thrilled the team won the Bucks game-82 to make the playoffs direct. That learning experience is the point of it all!