2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm

[The-Stallion70]

I think the success over the season has lead people to forget that we’re only in Paolo’s second year - he's not a finished product.

Just for some comparison, let's look at Paolo compared to some other young franchise stars in their 2nd seasons:

Paolo vs Shai

Paolo vs Ant

Paolo vs Tatum (21, 3rd season) - this is probably the best comp for Paolo. Keep in mind that Tatum was winning from day 1 playing behind Kyrie. It wasn't until Tatum's 3rd season that the keys were handed to him the way the Magic handed the keys to Paolo this season. Efficiency is on Tatum's side, but he wasn't phenomenally efficient that season. They were good enough to make the ECFs that season, and then drop to a .500 team the following season and a 1st round knockout. Imagine the outrage on this board if we have Paolo in year 4 his help was Kemba, Fournier and Theis off the back of a conference finals showing?

Tatum/Brown/Smart + Kemba + Hayward + Theis eventually became Tatum/Brown + White + JRue + KP + Horford and contenders, but they had some stormy waters in between.

Paolo/Franz/Suggs + (Fultz/Harris) + Ingles + Isaac + (WCJ/Moe/Goga) will eventually become something else, and it won't all be smooth sailing.

Silver lining though - Paolo's numbers are up across the board in efficiency, even if it's not at the level you'd like to see, it's trending the right direction. Tatum didn't crack 60% TS% until his 6th season (last season). Tatum's personal game has hit its peak over the last 2 seasons, right as Boston is primed to contend. They still managed to pull out some conference finals appearances in the lead up to that. I think we should feel good about Paolo's trajectory to date.

Great post. I feel like people want rapid success when this is a process. I may be off by a couple of seasons but I believe it took the magic 9 years from the season they Dwight to make the finals. People really need to be patient, this is going to take time.

You're way off, it took five lol

Basketball is not complicated really, you find the best talent, you're probably going to win.

Sometimes the best talent is really young, other times a player has to add gradually to their game. It is a young man's game after all.

It's not an accident that team's tank to find a Great talent. I personally wont be surprised if San Antonio constructs a contender within the next few years around Wembanyama. He is that good. This isnt always a gradual process like many other things in life commonly are.

The Heat's philosophy outright eschews tanking or "process" type thinking. Why? Because they are smarter than that and know that ultimately it comes down to hard work no matter who you got. They find elite talent one way or another.

[The-Stallion70]

Its hard not to agree with you, but they try If facts dont fit, too bad for facts.
Its mostly semantics. You can call everything you do "constructing", but thats not what you meant.
The most important thing is that we are not done "constructing, we are not even close. Its possible we will leave 3-4 players from our rotation next year.
Yes we can agree this year we are done "constructing" roster, but our goal was never maximizing wins. We wanted to keep the team together and develop young players. I think roster was constructed OK for this. Yes we need PG badly, but we reached play ins without it so who cares.

What are you even talking about?

Of course we want to maximize wins, we are not a damned farm team, lol. Are you a Lakers fan? We are not just trying to develop players, the Magic are here to kick some ass now

And we literally have home court advantage in the playoffs, we are way ahead of just getting lousy play-ins. Are you delusional man?

When a beautiful women looks your way for the first time, you fall on your knees and ask for her hand or you ask her for a dinner ?
When play offs look at you for the first time, you use most of your assets before you even get there or you make small adjustments and keep assets until your stars are ready and you know what they need to succed ?

I do't know really what you are trying to isuinuate here with this nonsense but all I know is the rebuild mentality is over. Gone are the days of twenty something wins and depending on draft picks year after year. The Magic are moving back into a period of happiness and winning and so you can check your loser mentality at the door.

[Rainwater]

What are you even talking about?

Of course we want to maximize wins, we are not a damned farm team, lol. Are you a Lakers fan? We are not just trying to develop players, the Magic are here to kick some ass now

And we literally have home court advantage in the playoffs, we are way ahead of just getting lousy play-ins. Are you delusional man?

I really think you have made this assumption in your head that just because the Magic have home court advantage that the magic are done and ready to compete when this is far from the truth. In all honesty, most didn’t expect the Magic to be in this position and most are not expecting much in the playoffs. They are far ahead off schedule. Outside of Suggs, Paolo, and Franz this team has so much to fix. I am expecting big moves in the offseason.

We have things to fix but we have far fewer things to fix than those teams who peformed worse than we did this year! How else do you define success?

You lack perspective if you can only see the negative when the Magic have their best season in over a decade

You develop by winning games.

Did the fact that Boston won a lot of games early on in Tatum's and Brown's career somehow hurt their development? Hell no it didn't, it helped them along because they came to understand the kind of work it takes and the commitment needed in order to win.

Listen I'm not saying the Magic have no more work to do, I'm saying that as it stands right now, our team is better than 2 thirds of the Eastern conference and that it is okay to adjust your loser mentality accordingly. I never said that the team has no more work to do, I'm saying the REBUILD is over.

Gone are the days of twenty something wins and looking up draft prospects year to year.

We just have different definitions of a rebuild. What most are trying to tell you is that just because you are winning doesn’t mean the rebuild is over. Most have the opinion that a rebuild is over when you have your future team going forward and that team is ready to compete and the Magic have not accomplished neither.

And I also feel like you are conflating rebuilding with intentionally losing which is also not the case. We just have different ideas of what a rebuild is.

[The-Stallion70]

I really think you have made this assumption in your head that just because the Magic have home court advantage that the magic are done and ready to compete when this is far from the truth. In all honesty, most didn’t expect the Magic to be in this position and most are not expecting much in the playoffs. They are far ahead off schedule. Outside of Suggs, Paolo, and Franz this team has so much to fix. I am expecting big moves in the offseason.

We have things to fix but we have far fewer things to fix than those teams who peformed worse than we did this year! How else do you define success?

You lack perspective if you can only see the negative when the Magic have their best season in over a decade

You develop by winning games.

Did the fact that Boston won a lot of games early on in Tatum's and Brown's career somehow hurt their development? Hell no it didn't, it helped them along because they came to understand the kind of work it takes and the commitment needed in order to win.

Listen I'm not saying the Magic have no more work to do, I'm saying that as it stands right now, our team is better than 2 thirds of the Eastern conference and that it is okay to adjust your loser mentality accordingly. I never said that the team has no more work to do, I'm saying the REBUILD is over.

Gone are the days of twenty something wins and looking up draft prospects year to year.

We just have different definitions of a rebuild. What most are trying to tell you is that just because you are winning doesn’t mean the rebuild is over. Most have the opinion that a rebuild is over when you have your future team going forward and that team is ready to compete and the Magic have not accomplished neither.

And I also feel like you are conflating rebuilding with intentionally losing which is also not the case. We just have different ideas of what a rebuild is.

I justvrefuse to describe any team that has home court in the playoffs as being in a rebuild phase.

The term rebuild doesn't apply to any team that has home court advantage in the playoffs. Especially one where our best players are each literally only 22 years old and havent even signed their rookie extensions yet!!

Fans of so many other teams would love to be in our position lol.

Don't look now but the Magic are poised to make the secobd round of the playoffs and are prepared to be very good for a very long time.

[Rainwater]

We have things to fix but we have far fewer things to fix than those teams who peformed worse than we did this year! How else do you define success?

You lack perspective if you can only see the negative when the Magic have their best season in over a decade

You develop by winning games.

Did the fact that Boston won a lot of games early on in Tatum's and Brown's career somehow hurt their development? Hell no it didn't, it helped them along because they came to understand the kind of work it takes and the commitment needed in order to win.

Listen I'm not saying the Magic have no more work to do, I'm saying that as it stands right now, our team is better than 2 thirds of the Eastern conference and that it is okay to adjust your loser mentality accordingly. I never said that the team has no more work to do, I'm saying the REBUILD is over.

Gone are the days of twenty something wins and looking up draft prospects year to year.

We just have different definitions of a rebuild. What most are trying to tell you is that just because you are winning doesn’t mean the rebuild is over. Most have the opinion that a rebuild is over when you have your future team going forward and that team is ready to compete and the Magic have not accomplished neither.

And I also feel like you are conflating rebuilding with intentionally losing which is also not the case. We just have different ideas of what a rebuild is.

I justvrefuse to describe any team that has home court in the playoffs as being in a rebuild phase.

The term rebuild doesn't apply to any team that has home court advantage in the playoffs. Especially one where our best players are each literally only 22 years old and havent even signed their rookie extensions yet!!

Fans of so many other teams would love to be in our position lol.

Don't look now but the Magic are poised to make the secobd round of the playoffs and are prepared to be very good for a very long time.

No one is questioning that the Magic are going to be very good for a long. It is just your idea of a rebuild. Just because you are winning doesn’t mean the rebuild is over and we can agree to disagree on that point. Most teams aren’t contending when their best player is 21. Unless moves are made, I just hope you are not disappointed if the Magic aren’t as good as they are this year. I think the magic played over their head a little this year.

[The-Stallion70]

We just have different definitions of a rebuild. What most are trying to tell you is that just because you are winning doesn’t mean the rebuild is over. Most have the opinion that a rebuild is over when you have your future team going forward and that team is ready to compete and the Magic have not accomplished neither.

And I also feel like you are conflating rebuilding with intentionally losing which is also not the case. We just have different ideas of what a rebuild is.

I justvrefuse to describe any team that has home court in the playoffs as being in a rebuild phase.

The term rebuild doesn't apply to any team that has home court advantage in the playoffs. Especially one where our best players are each literally only 22 years old and havent even signed their rookie extensions yet!!

Fans of so many other teams would love to be in our position lol.

Don't look now but the Magic are poised to make the secobd round of the playoffs and are prepared to be very good for a very long time.

No one is questioning that the Magic are going to be very good for a long. It is just your idea of a rebuild. Just because you are winning doesn’t mean the rebuild is over and we can agree to disagree on that point. Most teams aren’t contending when their best player is 21. Unless moves are made, I just hope you are not disappointed if the Magic aren’t as good as they are this year. I think the magic played over their head a little this year.

Well you are just showing too much negativity my friend.

I think Boston played over their head as well this year, what difference does it make to state that? They are each just opinions.

Listen the teams that are picking in the top half of the lottery this year are 'rebuilding'.

It may take them over ten years to get to where the Magic are now, like it did for us.

It's okay to have a positive mentality now and put the garbage behind you.

[Rainwater]

I justvrefuse to describe any team that has home court in the playoffs as being in a rebuild phase.

The term rebuild doesn't apply to any team that has home court advantage in the playoffs. Especially one where our best players are each literally only 22 years old and havent even signed their rookie extensions yet!!

Fans of so many other teams would love to be in our position lol.

Don't look now but the Magic are poised to make the secobd round of the playoffs and are prepared to be very good for a very long time.

No one is questioning that the Magic are going to be very good for a long. It is just your idea of a rebuild. Just because you are winning doesn’t mean the rebuild is over and we can agree to disagree on that point. Most teams aren’t contending when their best player is 21. Unless moves are made, I just hope you are not disappointed if the Magic aren’t as good as they are this year. I think the magic played over their head a little this year.

Well you are just showing too much negativity my friend.

I think Boston played over their head as well this year, what difference does it make to state that? They are each just opinions.

Listen the teams that are picking in the top half of the lottery this year are 'rebuilding'.

It may take them over ten years to get to where the Magic are now, like it did for us.

It's okay to have a positive mentality now and put the garbage behind you.

It’s not negativity, it’s reality. The Magic are no where near teams like Boston, Philly, Mil, or even Cavs or Miami (They may have a chance over New York or Indiana). This team is massively young and full of holes. Guys typically are winning titles at 27,28 most aren’t doing so at 21. The last to do it I believe was Kobe and he had Shaq.

I feel like you will be quite disappointed if the Magic get sweeped in the first round(not saying they will) thinking they ready to contend when in reality they weren’t even supposed to in the playoffs yet.

The reason I state that the Magic are playing over their head is because they have not built a team to contend, lol. They have no shooters, their guards suck, their best players are ridiculously young, their key F/A signee is close to death(basketball wise lol). This is the team you think has finished the rebuild and is contending for a title? lol.

Man, if you think that Boston is playing over their head (I don’t know how you can be playing over your head when you have been great for years) I question if you watch basketball. Boston has been one of the top teams in the Game for a while now and added Holiday and Progizings to already stacked team of White, Tatum, Brown, and Horford. Boston is probably the favorite to come out of the east. This does not compare to what is happening to the Magic.

I really believe the early success this season have given some fans a false sense of reality of where the team really is.

[The-Stallion70]

No one is questioning that the Magic are going to be very good for a long. It is just your idea of a rebuild. Just because you are winning doesn’t mean the rebuild is over and we can agree to disagree on that point. Most teams aren’t contending when their best player is 21. Unless moves are made, I just hope you are not disappointed if the Magic aren’t as good as they are this year. I think the magic played over their head a little this year.

Well you are just showing too much negativity my friend.

I think Boston played over their head as well this year, what difference does it make to state that? They are each just opinions.

Listen the teams that are picking in the top half of the lottery this year are 'rebuilding'.

It may take them over ten years to get to where the Magic are now, like it did for us.

It's okay to have a positive mentality now and put the garbage behind you.

It’s not negativity, it’s reality. The Magic are no where near teams like Boston, Philly, Mil, or even Cavs or Miami (They may have a chance over New York or Indiana). This team is massively young and full of holes. Guys typically are winning titles at 27,28 most aren’t doing so at 21. The last to do it I believe was Kobe and he had Shaq.

I feel like you will be quite disappointed if the Magic get sweeped in the first round(not saying they will) thinking they ready to contend when in reality they weren’t even supposed to in the playoffs yet.

The reason I state that the Magic are playing over their head is because they have not built a team to contend, lol. They have no shooters, their guards suck, their best players are ridiculously young, their key F/A signee is close to death(basketball wise lol). This is the team you think has finished the rebuild and is contending for a title? lol.

Man, if you think that Boston is playing over their head (I don’t know how you can be playing over your head when you have been great for years) I question if you watch basketball. Boston has been one of the top teams in the Game for a while now and added Holiday and Progizings to already stacked team of White, Tatum, Brown, and Horford. Boston is probably the favorite to come out of the east. This does not compare to what is happening to the Magic.

I really believe the early success this season have given some fans a false sense of reality of where the team really is.

Your reading comprehension is horrible

I'm not saying that the team is ready to contend, no I don't think the team is ready to win a chip but I do think this team, as young as they are, is built to make the second round of the playoffs. I think they are too good to get swept in any round.

All teams have holes, yes or guards sick but players like Paolo and Franz are changing what the definition if a "guard" is. They do everything you expect from guards but they are bigger abd play the forward positions.

If you ask me, it is Boston's title to lose this year.

What I'm saying is the Magic are comfortably in the tier of teams who are good but not quite competing. I agree that they have areas of improvement but what you don't understand is that the entire product of the Orlando Magic basketball team is better than all but 3 or 4 other teams in the conference, holes and all.

Your assumption is that our performance this year is somehow less sustainable than if they were built a different way? How? And even if that is true, which it isn't but I'll entertain this thought to educate you, you're assuming that the team can't continue to evolve? That's rediculous of course they can, because that's what teams and players do.

"Rebuilding" teams are those who are eons below us, winning twenty something games and can't build any identity because of the losing. The Magic are past that.

I suppose younger posters who have only been following the team since the Vuc era have no real idea of what it's like to be a fan of a team that isn't ****.