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2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm

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Re: 2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm 

Post#541 » by SOUL » Sat Apr 6, 2024 3:46 am

eyriq wrote:The argument is that we don't sacrifice wins by developing AB and Jett because their blockers aren't good.


Then the Brandon Miller argument isn't valid as a point - we clearly did sacrifice wins by dedicating time and effort into our #1, #5 and #8 picks and played a bunch of other young guys with them - hence the age of our roster.

Jett was an extra pick and AB we actually got lucky we were as bad as we were with the injuries.

Luxury lottery picks. You want to hit on them, but there's no rushed incentive to reset your intentions because of these guys.
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Re: 2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm 

Post#542 » by basketballRob » Sat Apr 6, 2024 3:51 am

eyriq wrote:
SOUL wrote:This forum is unserious about basketball discussion if we're going to debate that Jett and AB not getting minutes are the reasons why this team isn't reaching their potential or better. The team would actively get worse playing two rookies the minutes people want for them. I would put my life savings on it.

That doesn't mean they aren't the better options moving forward and replacing Ingles/Fultz/Harris or whoever - you are simply spitting in the face of advanced statistics and common sense.

I've got some snake oil to sell some people if you think it's just a coincidence that when the Jazz start playing Hendricks, Sensabaugh and Keyonte all together more minutes, with and without other vets in the lineup, that they go on a 10 game losing streak.

It doesn't mean they can't put up big stats and shouldn't be the future, it's that actively playing all 1st/2nd year guys together is the recipe for what we've been so used to and apparently what people want to continue to do.
That's not the argument. The argument is that we don't sacrifice wins by developing AB and Jett because their blockers aren't good.
They've been ramping up this 10-man lineup for the last month. It would take weeks to get another player up to the same level.

It does make a difference when rookies are older.

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Re: 2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm 

Post#543 » by eyriq » Sat Apr 6, 2024 3:53 am

SOUL wrote:
eyriq wrote:The argument is that we don't sacrifice wins by developing AB and Jett because their blockers aren't good.


Then the Brandon Miller argument isn't valid as a point - we clearly did sacrifice wins by dedicating time and effort into our #1, #5 and #8 picks and played a bunch of other young guys with them - hence the age of our roster.

Jett was an extra pick and AB we actually got lucky we were as bad as we were with the injuries.

Luxury lottery picks. You want to hit on them, but there's no rushed incentive to reset your intentions because of these guys.
Yes, that's fair to say they are luxury. I think Mosley made the decision to play Harris and Fultz over them because of perceived benefits to team chemistry. I personally think it was the wrong choice, but I like that we've overachieved so can't really make a great case against it. But as it's played out, Harris has been injured or his usual low impact self, while Fultz regressed. Should have played AB and Jett.
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Re: 2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm 

Post#544 » by basketballRob » Sat Apr 6, 2024 3:54 am

Skybox wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
Skybox wrote:Btw…Brandon Miller is a rookie. Why isn’t he in the G League or on the bench instead of bustin’ ORL’s ass? This is the NBA, not a developmental program. To have neither of 2 lottery (2!) picks be a factor this season or even under consideration for any All-Rookie teams is, simply, a failure.
He's also just 10 days younger than Paolo.

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That doesn’t mean squat. Just another crutch…he’s a rookie who played one year of college ball.
Micic is a rookie and looks like a vet.

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Re: 2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm 

Post#545 » by SOUL » Sat Apr 6, 2024 3:55 am

eyriq wrote:
SOUL wrote:
eyriq wrote:The argument is that we don't sacrifice wins by developing AB and Jett because their blockers aren't good.


Then the Brandon Miller argument isn't valid as a point - we clearly did sacrifice wins by dedicating time and effort into our #1, #5 and #8 picks and played a bunch of other young guys with them - hence the age of our roster.

Jett was an extra pick and AB we actually got lucky we were as bad as we were with the injuries.

Luxury lottery picks. You want to hit on them, but there's no rushed incentive to reset your intentions because of these guys.
Yes, that's fair to say they are luxury. I think Mosley made the decision to play Harris and Fultz over them because of perceived benefits to team chemistry. I personally think it was the wrong choice, but I like that we've overachieved so can't really make a great case against it. But as it's played out, Harris has been injured or his usual low impact self, while Fultz regressed. Should have played AB and Jett.


Fultz-AB is a valid discussion - but Harris' % stats and advanced stats both show him as a positive contributor this year and last year.
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Re: 2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm 

Post#546 » by JF5 » Sat Apr 6, 2024 3:55 am

eyriq wrote:
SOUL wrote:This forum is unserious about basketball discussion if we're going to debate that Jett and AB not getting minutes are the reasons why this team isn't reaching their potential or better. The team would actively get worse playing two rookies the minutes people want for them. I would put my life savings on it.

That doesn't mean they aren't the better options moving forward and replacing Ingles/Fultz/Harris or whoever - you are simply spitting in the face of advanced statistics and common sense.

I've got some snake oil to sell some people if you think it's just a coincidence that when the Jazz start playing Hendricks, Sensabaugh and Keyonte all together more minutes, with and without other vets in the lineup, that they go on a 10 game losing streak.

It doesn't mean they can't put up big stats and shouldn't be the future, it's that actively playing all 1st/2nd year guys together is the recipe for what we've been so used to and apparently what people want to continue to do.
That's not the argument. The argument is that we don't sacrifice wins by developing AB and Jett because their blockers aren't good.


The thing is you sort of sacrifice a bit of the veteran presence/in-game experience/advance IQ/Overall poise to help guide the teams to wins.

For example the Magic's Starters who are their best players. 3 of them are in their Sophomore and Junior campaigns. These guys are going to get defensive schemes they're not totally comfortable in maneuvering around, and their Talents and IQ even though are good enough their not going to outsmart or out skill experience guys who know who they are and already know how to win in this league.

That's not even adding the inconsistent energy and effort that naturally comes with playing youth.

Then you contrast that with the bench with guys like Issac, Wagner, Fultz, Mo, Ingles and even Cole who've been in the league in the league at least 4 years and they always outplay AND consistently save the youthfulness of the starters from themselves. They consistently play with that poise, purpose, consistency, and experience that the Starters clearly lack on a night to night basis.

So it does not make sense adding more rookies into the mix who would add to the pre-existing issues plaguing your core young players when it comes to trying to win games.
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Re: 2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm 

Post#547 » by MagicMatic » Sat Apr 6, 2024 3:59 am

SOUL wrote:This forum is unserious about basketball discussion if we're going to debate that Jett and AB not getting minutes are the reasons why this team isn't reaching their potential or better. The team would actively get worse playing two rookies the minutes people want for them. I would put my life savings on it.

That doesn't mean they aren't the better options moving forward and replacing Ingles/Fultz/Harris or whoever - you are simply spitting in the face of advanced statistics and common sense.

I've got some snake oil to sell some people if you think it's just a coincidence that when the Jazz start playing Hendricks, Sensabaugh and Keyonte all together more minutes, with and without other vets in the lineup, that they go on a 10 game losing streak.

It doesn't mean they can't put up big stats and shouldn't be the future, it's that actively playing all 1st/2nd year guys together is the recipe for what we've been so used to and apparently what people want to continue to do.


I don’t personally think AB and Jett, in their rookie seasons, are the solution to what we are seeing right now… or have been for the last 20-30 games.

The Front Office decided to do both things simultaneously - develop young talent while aiming for a realistic playoff run for “experience”. Now, people love talking about that **** but your roster is what takes you that much further and nothing else. They had the opportunity to make additions and didn’t. 40 year old Joe Ingles that jogs up the floor doesn’t count as a solution to ball movement.

Everyone gets hyped on some of these wins, but BAD losses to BAD teams and playing down to your opponent like Hornets or Blazers isn’t a good sign of a young team. Outside of that, the notion that these games don’t matter “because we are young” is exactly why people should be more upset.

Why? Because habits are being formed. The clock is ticking for the FO to test whether or not Mosely can actually do his job. Yeah he got them to buy in. Can he run an offense? Well it doesn’t seem like he knows how inefficient it looks right now. We will see when he is given more than a broken redemption project semi-bust and a rookie with a learning curve at arguably the most important position on the floor.

Casuals get awestruck by box scores when they don’t watch these games. That’s been the case nearly all season. The offense has looked pretty terrible when it isn’t in transition or off a defensive play. Dare I say bottom 5? I absolutely hate it. It looks like a bad team on that side of the ball and won’t really change until the front office stops sitting on their numb hands.
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Re: 2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm 

Post#548 » by basketballRob » Sat Apr 6, 2024 4:01 am

It's only 3 months until the summer league, and we'll see what improvements Jett and AB made. Hopefully, they will win a game this year

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Re: 2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm 

Post#549 » by KillMonger » Sat Apr 6, 2024 4:04 am

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Re: 2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm 

Post#550 » by eyriq » Sat Apr 6, 2024 4:13 am

JF5 wrote:
eyriq wrote:
SOUL wrote:This forum is unserious about basketball discussion if we're going to debate that Jett and AB not getting minutes are the reasons why this team isn't reaching their potential or better. The team would actively get worse playing two rookies the minutes people want for them. I would put my life savings on it.

That doesn't mean they aren't the better options moving forward and replacing Ingles/Fultz/Harris or whoever - you are simply spitting in the face of advanced statistics and common sense.

I've got some snake oil to sell some people if you think it's just a coincidence that when the Jazz start playing Hendricks, Sensabaugh and Keyonte all together more minutes, with and without other vets in the lineup, that they go on a 10 game losing streak.

It doesn't mean they can't put up big stats and shouldn't be the future, it's that actively playing all 1st/2nd year guys together is the recipe for what we've been so used to and apparently what people want to continue to do.
That's not the argument. The argument is that we don't sacrifice wins by developing AB and Jett because their blockers aren't good.


The thing is you sort of sacrifice a bit of the veteran presence/in-game experience/advance IQ/Overall poise to help guide the teams to wins.

For example the Magic's Starters who are their best players. 3 of them are in their Sophomore and Junior campaigns. These guys are going to get defensive schemes they're not totally comfortable in maneuvering around, and their Talents and IQ even though are good enough their not going to outsmart or out skill experience guys who know who they are and already know how to win in this league.

That's not even adding the inconsistent energy and effort that naturally comes with playing youth.

Then you contrast that with the bench with guys like Issac, Wagner, Fultz, Mo, Ingles and even Cole who've been in the league in the league at least 4 years and they always outplay AND consistently save the youthfulness of the starters from themselves. They consistently play with that poise, purpose, consistency, and experience that the Starters clearly lack on a night to night basis.

So it does not make sense adding more rookies into the mix who would add to the pre-existing issues plaguing your core young players when it comes to trying to win games.
Yeah, that's all fair. The thing is, Paolo, Franz, Suggs, Cole, and Isaac are the driving forces behind our victories. Replacing Fultz with AB, Harris with Jett, would have marginal impact in the short-term and large impact in the long-term.
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Re: 2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm 

Post#551 » by DiplomaticMagic » Sat Apr 6, 2024 4:20 am

We are worried about matchups in playoffs yet we cant beat the Hornets whos missing key players. Embarrassing.

Felt like a game that we couldve benched Wendell and played Goga.
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Re: 2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm 

Post#552 » by eyriq » Sat Apr 6, 2024 4:23 am

Anyway, we were due a loss to a bottom 7 team. I'm not worried, just disappointed.
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Re: 2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm 

Post#553 » by RookieStar » Sat Apr 6, 2024 4:42 am

KillMonger wrote:
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JI gonna probably ask for a 100m dollar deal with the craptastic defense we showed.
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Re: 2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm 

Post#554 » by Bensational » Sat Apr 6, 2024 4:47 am

We got some poopy pants in here. The Magic crapped themselves, so it’s understandable. Let’s not lose sight of the bigger picture - we’re still running when we should be learning to walk. Even if we’re not potty trained yet, so we’re running in poopy pants. At some point they’ll put on their big boy pants. Until then, get yourselves some wet wipes, baby powder and a warm bottle of milk, because everything is going to be ok.
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Re: 2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm 

Post#555 » by Message Boar » Sat Apr 6, 2024 4:47 am

JF5 wrote:
Optimus_Steel wrote:People need to get off the ledge lol. Bad loss, it happens. The Magic had thoroughly dominated Charlotte this season before this game as well as the bad opponents all season. Lately signs were showing of the Magic letting up against lesser teams, they got lucky against Port but it caught up to them tonight. If the Magic take this game seriously they win it but they didn’t. Part of this is we are an ascending team playing games that matter and learning that some nights lesser teams don’t just roll over, even if it feels they have nothing to play for. Take the loss and learn to respect your opponent.


This and the Memphis game were probably the only real bad losses they've had TBH. The other recent losses were just heart breakers.

The Warriors loss was trash and you can't convince me otherwise. Agree with the main quote, though.
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Re: 2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm 

Post#556 » by eyriq » Sat Apr 6, 2024 4:48 am

Just listened to Fultz's post game comments. "I'm doing everything I need to do to make sure this team won"...
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Re: 2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm 

Post#557 » by MagicMatic » Sat Apr 6, 2024 4:56 am

eyriq wrote:Just listened to Fultz's post game comments. "I'm doing everything I need to do to make sure this team won"...


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Re: 2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm 

Post#558 » by KillMonger » Sat Apr 6, 2024 5:41 am

eyriq wrote:Just listened to Fultz's post game comments. "I'm doing everything I need to do to make sure this team won"...

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Re: 2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm 

Post#559 » by GelbeWand09 » Sat Apr 6, 2024 6:15 am

Without Isaac this is still a 34 win lottery team.
Not that mad about the loss. We were due to a loss to a bottom feeder. It's a 82 games season, it's hard to play hard & concentrated all the time and this team just got such small room for errors or letdown. The offense is just so bad that any slip on defense makes it hard to win against any team. Maybe we should have played Goga & AB to get more defense.

Paolo. I wrote about him some days ago. He will never be efficient under this circumstances. He is no Luka, LeBron or Harden. He needs the perfect environment to become efficient.
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Re: 2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm 

Post#560 » by pepe1991 » Sat Apr 6, 2024 6:28 am

Okey people, calm down.
We are what, 19-2 against bottom teams, over time somebody will beat you, ask Bucks. They lost to Wizards, Raptors and Grizzlies. In same week.

But few takeaways from me:
- Brandon Miller is very talented.
- Our defense on Brandon Miller was offensive
- teams targeted Franz on defense, that's first time i saw this happening. Probably because Wendell didn't help too much, and Isaac didn't play
- Hornets scored 38 points in first quater. From gates it was s**tshow
- Hornets shot 50% for 3. We shot 23,7%
- We could have scored more points in paint, given Hornets played without C


As from takaways from comments:
- i agree with Soul, some of you are addicted to draft & ping pong balls and prospect of draft
- playing AB would not solve any of ongoing team issues
- Jett Howard didn't even play in NBA this year to give you any insight about him.
- IF he couldn't push Houstan, Okeke out of bench, you need to simply consider fact he isn't all that good right now
- going forward, i don't want to keep 2024 pick, to avoid similar, if not worst situation with Howard
- we need to add actual, playable, rotation talent in summer, i'm not sure where execlly will Howard get any min from. Same faith could be with Black, but his defense can keep him in games, if others can do offense for him

Not Magic related
- Tnx Bulls for beating Knicks
- Heat got Tyler Herro back and that team, against Houston looked really good. They seem to be capable of winning out rest of schedule. Ifthey win out, they will have 48 wins, in that case we would need to win 4 out of 5. But it's too early to talk about it. Game by game.

- OKC without SGA is pretty mid
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