2023-2024 Regular Season Game 77: Orlando Magic (45-31) at Charlotte Hornets (18-58) - 7pm

[shadrock]

What a clown show. Who are we kidding, were not even close to being winners, and our young guys seem satisfied with mediocre results. Sad.

[drsd]

Box score thoughts

The Magic lost the FG% battle and lost the game.

There were 49 combined FTs in this game, with 45 combined makes

Orlando's poor 3ball percentage wa offset by domination on the offensive glass; the Magic was +9 here.
The Magic DOMINATED the TO battle with 8 less give-aways. Added that the Magic fouled less and had an extra board, this coupled to the Magic taking 22 more FGs than the Hornets. Eeh gads.

In conclusion, if the Magic had made any effort to have guarded the three-point line, Orlando wins this game. What I can promise is that the Magic will be spending all of today watching (poorly executed) defensive game tape.

[byeganyo]

Just listened to Fultz's post game comments. "I'm doing everything I need to do to make sure this team won"...

You picked an weird moment to attack him, he had an ok game yesterday. Harris too - he went 4-8 from 3pt line, the rest of the team was 5-30

[zaymon]

Okey people, calm down.
We are what, 19-2 against bottom teams, over time somebody will beat you, ask Bucks. They lost to Wizards, Raptors and Grizzlies. In same week.

But few takeaways from me:
- Brandon Miller is very talented.
- Our defense on Brandon Miller was offensive
- teams targeted Franz on defense, that's first time i saw this happening. Probably because Wendell didn't help too much, and Isaac didn't play
- Hornets scored 38 points in first quater. From gates it was s**tshow
- Hornets shot 50% for 3. We shot 23,7%
- We could have scored more points in paint, given Hornets played without C


As from takaways from comments:
- i agree with Soul, some of you are addicted to draft & ping pong balls and prospect of draft
- playing AB would not solve any of ongoing team issues
- Jett Howard didn't even play in NBA this year to give you any insight about him.
- IF he couldn't push Houstan, Okeke out of bench, you need to simply consider fact he isn't all that good right now
- going forward, i don't want to keep 2024 pick, to avoid similar, if not worst situation with Howard
- we need to add actual, playable, rotation talent in summer, i'm not sure where execlly will Howard get any min from. Same faith could be with Black, but his defense can keep him in games, if others can do offense for him

Not Magic related
- Tnx Bulls for beating Knicks
- Heat got Tyler Herro back and that team, against Houston looked really good. They seem to be capable of winning out rest of schedule. Ifthey win out, they will have 48 wins, in that case we would need to win 4 out of 5. But it's too early to talk about it. Game by game.

- OKC without SGA is pretty mid

Ok thats some quality posting pepe, you are close to playoff form, unlike our team.

Hornets game was bad defense versus lucky offense. Like i said earlier, every team can stop us if we dont shoot 40% from 3. Its another thing that Hornets slaped Franz and Paolo every time they drived to the rim while they shot 1/12 from 3.

Draft is addicting in some way, but also its not hazard. There is no risk, while reward is bigger the more you lose. In some way its the opposite of hazard. We wont win championship this year, you could argue that falling to play in and then losing in two game is the best outcome we can achieve. Its two post season games instead of minimum 4, but there is also lottery ticket who you can use or trade.

Howard is doing very well in g league. I dont see any downside to not playing him this year. Many players did great after not playing their rookie year, and for many reasons. Some injured like Holmgren or Embiid, some not ready like Reddick. I think Howard might be second type. There is really no one who will block his minutes at backup 2 and 3 if he is any decent

We need veterans but we can aquire them by sign or trade. If we like a player we can draft him and stash in the g league like we did with Howard. We will have roster spots open after we deal with Fultz, Okeke, Goga, Harris, Ingles maybe even WCJ and Anthony.

[basketballRob]

That's not the argument. The argument is that we don't sacrifice wins by developing AB and Jett because their blockers aren't good.

The thing is you sort of sacrifice a bit of the veteran presence/in-game experience/advance IQ/Overall poise to help guide the teams to wins.

For example the Magic's Starters who are their best players. 3 of them are in their Sophomore and Junior campaigns. These guys are going to get defensive schemes they're not totally comfortable in maneuvering around, and their Talents and IQ even though are good enough their not going to outsmart or out skill experience guys who know who they are and already know how to win in this league.

That's not even adding the inconsistent energy and effort that naturally comes with playing youth.

Then you contrast that with the bench with guys like Issac, Wagner, Fultz, Mo, Ingles and even Cole who've been in the league in the league at least 4 years and they always outplay AND consistently save the youthfulness of the starters from themselves. They consistently play with that poise, purpose, consistency, and experience that the Starters clearly lack on a night to night basis.

So it does not make sense adding more rookies into the mix who would add to the pre-existing issues plaguing your core young players when it comes to trying to win games.

Yeah, that's all fair. The thing is, Paolo, Franz, Suggs, Cole, and Isaac are the driving forces behind our victories. Replacing Fultz with AB, Harris with Jett, would have marginal impact in the short-term and large impact in the long-term.

As far as we know, Jett could be run off the floor. Fultz has continued to look better.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[eyriq]

As from takaways from comments:
- i agree with Soul, some of you are addicted to draft & ping pong balls and prospect of draft

It's not fair to say that wanting to play AB and Jett is the same as being addicted to the draft, etc. That's not the motivation at all.

[jezzerinho]

Okey people, calm down.
We are what, 19-2 against bottom teams, over time somebody will beat you, ask Bucks. They lost to Wizards, Raptors and Grizzlies. In same week.

But few takeaways from me:
- Brandon Miller is very talented.
- Our defense on Brandon Miller was offensive
- teams targeted Franz on defense, that's first time i saw this happening. Probably because Wendell didn't help too much, and Isaac didn't play
- Hornets scored 38 points in first quater. From gates it was s**tshow
- Hornets shot 50% for 3. We shot 23,7%
- We could have scored more points in paint, given Hornets played without C


As from takaways from comments:
- i agree with Soul, some of you are addicted to draft & ping pong balls and prospect of draft
- playing AB would not solve any of ongoing team issues
- Jett Howard didn't even play in NBA this year to give you any insight about him.
- IF he couldn't push Houstan, Okeke out of bench, you need to simply consider fact he isn't all that good right now
- going forward, i don't want to keep 2024 pick, to avoid similar, if not worst situation with Howard
- we need to add actual, playable, rotation talent in summer, i'm not sure where execlly will Howard get any min from. Same faith could be with Black, but his defense can keep him in games, if others can do offense for him

Not Magic related
- Tnx Bulls for beating Knicks
- Heat got Tyler Herro back and that team, against Houston looked really good. They seem to be capable of winning out rest of schedule. Ifthey win out, they will have 48 wins, in that case we would need to win 4 out of 5. But it's too early to talk about it. Game by game.

- OKC without SGA is pretty mid

Great post. Agree 100%

[doct3r dr3]

I didn't see Larger Lawyer anywhere on the floor watching the Magic, so that's probably why we lost.

I don't remember the last time he missed a game.

Yeah, I've been curious to know who that guy is and how he's able to afford floor seats to seemingly every stadium for every Magic game?

[Bergmaniac]

We were bound for something like this, even the bad teams in the NBA have plenty of talents and when they get hot early and gain confidence can get surprising wins if the favourite isn't taking the game completely seriously. But also it's been pretty clear all season that we are a very average team without Isaac, I really hope his back issues aren't serious and he'll be ready for the final stretch.

We continue to lose almost every time Suggs has a bad game. When Cole has a bad game too it's almost a certain loss.

Paolo had his moments offensively but he shot too much IMO. And the starters just couldn't get it going defensively all game.

Fultz actually had a pretty solid game, but I worry this would convince Mosley to give him playoff/play-in minutes which is something I really don't want to see, against playoff defences his gimmick offense just won't work.

it's a real shame we didn't get Micic when he was available for virtually nothing, this team badly needs a real PG. He is so much better as a passer than Fultz with way better basketball IQ.

[basketballRob]

Hornets fans will hate Clifford when they get the 6th pick instead of a top 3.

We saw the good the other night when Wendell could switch off on Zion. We saw the bad last night when Wendell couldn't take advantage of the Hornets starting a 6'6 "center. Vuc would've been no help against Zion, but would've scored 30 pts last night.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[Knightro]

EXACTLY

The roster being poorly built isn't a good thing. Nor should it be something any of us find acceptable.

Yes, the defense is usually very good (at least when Isaac plays) and that's nice, but the offense is terrible almost every night.

It's not poorly built? I mean, WTF are you talking about?

I would say if a team ranks 23rd in offense, they have a poorly built roster offensively.

Now if the argument back is that the two main guys are just young and we need to wait them out, I’m not against that, but the Magic could have supplemented the roster with better complimentary pieces and didn’t do it.

[eyriq]

The roster being poorly built isn't a good thing. Nor should it be something any of us find acceptable.

Yes, the defense is usually very good (at least when Isaac plays) and that's nice, but the offense is terrible almost every night.

It's not poorly built? I mean, WTF are you talking about?

I would say if a team ranks 23rd in offense, they have a poorly built roster offensively.

Now if the argument back is that the two main guys are just young and we need to wait them out, I’m not against that, but the Magic could have supplemented the roster with better complimentary pieces and didn’t do it.

23rd best offense is a function of being young, not poorly built. You explained it

[Bergmaniac]

You can be a young team and have a decent offense, there are plenty of examples of this. We could have easily been a Top 20 offense without any major moves on the market just by adding a non-terrible and cheap PG like Micic.

[Knightro]

It's not poorly built? I mean, WTF are you talking about?

I would say if a team ranks 23rd in offense, they have a poorly built roster offensively.

Now if the argument back is that the two main guys are just young and we need to wait them out, I’m not against that, but the Magic could have supplemented the roster with better complimentary pieces and didn’t do it.

23rd best offense is a function of being young, not poorly built. You explained it

That's only true to a certain extent though.

The front office had tons of cap space this summer and could have upgraded the Fultz, Harris, Anthony, Ingles spots. They could have made a trade deadline acquisition.

There were a large number of things they could have done on the margins that would have helped and they chose to do none of them.

[Skybox]

The roster being poorly built isn't a good thing. Nor should it be something any of us find acceptable.

Yes, the defense is usually very good (at least when Isaac plays) and that's nice, but the offense is terrible almost every night.

It's not poorly built? I mean, WTF are you talking about?

I would say if a team ranks 23rd in offense, they have a poorly built roster offensively.

Now if the argument back is that the two main guys are just young and we need to wait them out, I’m not against that, but the Magic could have supplemented the roster with better complimentary pieces and didn’t do it.

If you don’t have a single reliable backcourt scoring threat - your team is poorly constructed. “By committee” is not a plan, it’s a lack of one…not to mention a functional PG.

Even if they didn’t foresee Fultz’ collapse (like some of us did), where’s the vet PG? at least a DJ Augustine level guy…just none at all?

[eyriq]

You can be a young team and have a decent offense, there are plenty of examples of this. We could have easily been a Top 20 offense without any major moves on the market just by adding a non-terrible and cheap PG like Micic.

I'm curious to research this. I'd expect to find that it's pretty rare. Every single "young" team (top ten in age) this season is below average offensively, with the exception of OKC (SGA) and Utah (Markkanen).

I think there is a correlation between the age of your #1, #2, and #3 options and your offensive performance.

[eyriq]

It's funny we are talking about the offense when it was the defense that lost us this game. We were on pace to score 120.4 points per 100 possessions, well above our average.

[MagicMatic]

It's funny we are talking about the offense when it was the defense that lost us this game. We were on pace to score 120.4 points per 100 possessions, well above our average.

Because the eye test told us everything we needed to know.

Defense was poor, yes. However, a team shooting 50% from 3 and nailing everything sometimes isn’t necessarily poor defense for the entirety of the game.

The team is flawed because we have a 6’11 265lb Forward, with questionable handles, bringing the ball up the court at the point of attack while teams run zone against us daring us to shoot. The ball sticks and doesn’t move. Therefore, there isn’t a good rhythm to the offense. Charlotte’s gamble paid off and Orlando lost. It’s going to happen.

I’m not bitching about this offense because of this one loss. I’m bitching about it because it’s bad even in W’s when the defense looks amazing. Magic are going to lose to bad teams because of this when defensive playmaking can’t save your ass every night.

[Skybox]

You can be a young team and have a decent offense, there are plenty of examples of this. We could have easily been a Top 20 offense without any major moves on the market just by adding a non-terrible and cheap PG like Micic.

I'm curious to research this. I'd expect to find that it's pretty rare. Every single "young" team (top ten in age) this season is below average offensively, with the exception of OKC (SGA) and Utah (Markkanen).

I think there is a correlation between the age of your #1, #2, and #3 options and your offensive performance.

I don't think that's true (at least in ORL's case) because our very young 1 and 2 are the only things that work offensively...on a reliable basis. Age is too convenient...it's a poorly assembled roster - lots of talent, depth, but poorly matched skill sets and just plain missing a solid PG (even a 3rd string vet type to calm things down)

[MagicMatic]

Also, it’s not even a question that the roster is poorly constructed. It isn’t ”constructed” at all outside of draft selections.

Why? Because Orlando’s big 3 of Paolo/Franz/Suggs were all acquired after the Carter trade. Suggs is filling in as a point guard next to Gary Harris, who is basically a role player at this point. I mean what are you arguing here? That signing Joe Ingles equals “construction”?

As a front office you don’t “build backwards” in terms of acquiring your stars after your supplemental guys. You surround your core with players that make their lives easier and put emphasis on their strengths while detracting from their weaknesses. That’s exactly what they didn’t do here with this roster whether people want to admit it or not.

Isaac should be starting. Period. He’s better than Carter and you play your best players always… Don’t really know why this needs to be stated. It doesn’t matter if he can hit 3’s as a Center sometimes. You sign an average point guard so that doesn’t need to be the case.

And yeah, for the millionth time they should have spent money last offseason on a vet point guard before Paolo is paid. There was really no reason not to other than loving the idea that Fultz should be soaking up cap space because you didn’t feel like moving him for anything less than a late first round pick, which he isn’t worth anyway.