2023-2024 Regular Season Game 79: Orlando Magic (46-32) at Houston Rockets (38-40) - 8pm

[zaymon]

Who wouldn’t want a lotto pick? Can you not see how flawed this team still is?

But that notwithstanding, I do want to make the playoffs. I was excited when it looked like we had at least the 4 seed locked up. If I wanted them to lose so we can get a lottery pick, I would have been thrilled with the outcome - not exasperated.

so we can add another AB to the bench or another Jett to the G League
I'd rather have our young lads get a taste of the defeat in the playoffs. It would be far more beneficial.

Therein lies the real problem. A lazy, incompetent FO.

Everyone in the cosmos knew the Magic’s roster had a glaring defect coming into the season - perimeter shooting. So they signed Joe Ingles, drafted a raw PG whose offensive game is worse than Elfried Payton’s was and a shooting guard they exiled to Osceola. They bypassed better players to take 2 guys who were projects in a season in which we planned to be competitive.These picks made the Chuma pick seem shrewd.

They even decided to sit on their hands at the trade deadline.

And here we are. It makes no sense to me that this FO is not a target for much more criticism.

We planned to be competetive and we were. Front office never said we plan to contend this year. To be honest they said the opposite, that we dont want to rush things, that its propably too early to use assets, that we want to grow organically, that we value team chemistry.
You dont have to like what they did but they for sure did just what they planned to do.

[eyriq]

so we can add another AB to the bench or another Jett to the G League
I'd rather have our young lads get a taste of the defeat in the playoffs. It would be far more beneficial.

Therein lies the real problem. A lazy, incompetent FO.

Everyone in the cosmos knew the Magic’s roster had a glaring defect coming into the season - perimeter shooting. So they signed Joe Ingles, drafted a raw PG whose offensive game is worse than Elfried Payton’s was and a shooting guard they exiled to Osceola. They bypassed better players to take 2 guys who were projects in a season in which we planned to be competitive.These picks made the Chuma pick seem shrewd.

They even decided to sit on their hands at the trade deadline.

And here we are. It makes no sense to me that this FO is not a target for much more criticism.

We planned to be competetive and we were. Front office never said we plan to contend this year. To be honest they said the opposite, that we dont want to rush things, that its propably too early to use assets, that we want to grow organically, that we value team chemistry.
You dont have to like what they did but they for sure did just what they planned to do.

Yeah, this is all according to plan. If anything, they deserve accolades for how well the plan has been executed. We are undeniably ahead of schedule.

[MagicMatic]

I mean… people keep saying this but Gary Harris and Carter are on the floor in this screenshot.

Why are they not moving off ball?
Why is Paolo forcing an iso on 5 guys?
Why are plays not being called so this doesn’t happen?
Why is Fultz even in the game with Paolo?

Mosely.

Screenshots aren't always the best at delivering accurate information.

Let's re-watch the play in question...

Suggs dribbles the ball up off of a made basket and initiates a pick and roll on the left wing with Paolo with Gary in the left corner, Fultz in the right corner and Carter at the right elbow.

Houston immediately switches putting FVV on Paolo. Paolo goes into a post up on the left side on FVV.

Gary correctly clears out from the left corner into the right corner to give Paolo maximum space on the left block.

Carter moves back beyond the 3PT line on the right wing from the right elbow.

The issue is obviously and overwhelmingly here is Fultz. He doesn't leave the right corner when Gary enters the right corner, thus allowing the Rockets to essentially defend two Magic players with one defender and also collapse a defender into the paint to deny an interior pass, and it also completely eliminates the possibility of Paolo being able to actually hit Gary in the opposite corner for an open 3PT attempt.

Carter crashes down late for a potential OREB/dump pass once it's clear the Rockets are not going to send help for FVV on Paolo's post up. The screenshot made it look like Carter was "in the way" but he crashed in late like he was supposed to given how the Rockets were defending it.

The screenshot made this look a lot worse than it actually was. But the issue here was still Fultz not getting the hell out of the way/not being respected by his defender which eliminated one of Paolo's obvious passing reads on the play.

Paolo made the easy turnaround jumper over FVV in single coverage out of the post btw.

Yeah I hate judging anything off out of context screenshots, but Paolo is a black hole on offense and I don’t need to rewatch the last 3 games to know that. Mosely allows it.

The offense boils down to “Paolo get the mismatch and drive to the basket regardless of outcome” … yeah that doesn’t work against coaches that know what they are doing.

It isn’t efficient offense. It’s lazy, slow, relies on refs calling fouls, and leans on players being able to shoot out of a kick out IF the pass actually gets to them. I believe you correctly called that the bench would get us into this game and then the starters would kill the progress as soon as Paolo and Fultz were back in that game. Do you think people are dumb enough to not know why?

We have known for how many seasons now what Fultz can’t and can do? He’s an idiot .. sorry. How are you getting 30+ minutes and don’t know where your matchup is or what to do on offense when you don’t have the ball? Just a liability that makes smooth plays for Twitter casuals and 13 year olds. I want to punch the TV when Jeff Turner manages to throw out a “Fultz is so good at ____” like he’s his disabled son and needs to remind people he doesn’t suck for the amount of cap he’s eaten. Teammate of the the year because people feel sorry for him for falling off so hard.

[basketballRob]

It feels like the more the games mean something, the less the coaches believe in Cole and Wendell

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[eyriq]

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[MagicMatic]

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But how does Minnesota’s offense look?

[Knightro]

Yeah I hate judging anything off out of context screenshots, but Paolo is a black hole on offense and I don’t need to rewatch the last 3 games to know that. Mosely allows it.

The offense boils down to “Paolo get the mismatch and drive to the basket regardless of outcome” … yeah that doesn’t work against coaches that know what they are doing.

It isn’t efficient offense. It’s lazy, slow, relies on refs calling fouls, and leans on players being able to shoot out of a kick out IF the pass actually gets to them. I believe you correctly called that the bench would get us into this game and then the starters would kill the progress as soon as Paolo and Fultz were back in that game. Do you think people are dumb enough to not know why?

I mean the issue isn't necessarily that style not being an effective style in the NBA. It's that Paolo himself is not good enough right now to run that style at a high level.

Part of the reason why offenses have exploded so much over the last few years in particular is because teams realized their best players SHOULD be dominating the ball and using up more possessions than their lesser players.

10 years ago only 7 players had at least a 30 USG%. This year 20 players have done it. It's more or less tripled in just a decade.

There's 54 guys with at least a 25 USG% this season. 10 years ago that was only 35 players.

NBA offenses are more heliocentric than they have been in a very long time.

The Magic are playing a similar style offensively that basically every contender runs. They just don't have enough shooting from their role players and Paolo's just not efficient enough *right now* to justify it the amount of usage he gets.

But he's also only 21 years old and should continue to improve. The hope is that all these on-ball reps he's being force fed will help his long-term development as a scorer/playmaker rather than build potentially unbreakable bad habits.

[Knightro]

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This is someone who doesn't understand math very well.

Edwards takes a lot more 3 pointers than Paolo does and makes them at a higher percentage. Threes are obviously tougher to make than twos, but they're far more valuable, thus making this FG% comparison quite silly.

Combine that with Ant's 84% FT% compared to Paolo's 72% is why Ant's TS% is miles beyond Paolo's.

[pepe1991]

pointless exercise but i went back and watched some of the games during our 9 game streak, what jumps out at me immediately is how much ball and body movement we had....Also Goga is miles and i mean MILES better as a screener than dell.......it's not even close......doesn't seem like we're playing the same brand of basketball now.....hmmm i wonder what changed....i wonder......

100% agree.

When the ball moves and the players move off-ball, we win. Been that way all season.

Yea but you have to step back and see who Magic played.

6 out of 9 teams with negative record.

games:
1) Bulls 4-8 record
2) Bulls 4-9 record
3) Pacers 7-5
4) Raptors 6-8
5) Nuggets 10-5
6) Celtics 12-4
7) Hornets 5-10
8) Wizards 3-15
9) Wizards 3-16


Also it was start of a season, we were not team that others took too serious nor scouted us well, you had situations where Black was getting closeouts or even teams that were chasing Goga on perimeter, like he will do anything there. Element of suprise, along with our hustle was massive.

And when you look game before a streak ( lost by 20 to Nets) and game that ended a streak( lost by 28 to Nets), win vs Pistons, win vs Cavs, just to lose 4 straight with margin of L being 13 points show you that whole thing was more heep of a moment than something you could actually build serious foundations on.

Goga would not help our ongoing issues, we have poor spacing. Having another person that does nothing outside 5 feet won't help.

We don't lose games because our defense sucks, but because we have complete lack of offensive creativity. Playing stiff 7 foot C who can only roll solves nothing.

[Knightro]

Did you know if Paolo was shooting 80% from the FT line and literally nothing else changed, his TS% would increase from .548 to .561?

Free throws matter. He's well below average at that too.

[fendilim]

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Paolo gets the hate because he is a big man. He is expected to have high fg%.

[basketballRob]

pointless exercise but i went back and watched some of the games during our 9 game streak, what jumps out at me immediately is how much ball and body movement we had....Also Goga is miles and i mean MILES better as a screener than dell.......it's not even close......doesn't seem like we're playing the same brand of basketball now.....hmmm i wonder what changed....i wonder......

100% agree.

When the ball moves and the players move off-ball, we win. Been that way all season.

Yea but you have to step back and see who Magic played.

6 out of 9 teams with negative record.

games:
1) Bulls 4-8 record
2) Bulls 4-9 record
3) Pacers 7-5
4) Raptors 6-8
5) Nuggets 10-5
6) Celtics 12-4
7) Hornets 5-10
8) Wizards 3-15
9) Wizards 3-16


Also it was start of a season, we were not team that others took too serious nor scouted us well, you had situations where Black was getting closeouts or even teams that were chasing Goga on perimeter, like he will do anything there. Element of suprise, along with our hustle was massive.

And when you look game before a streak ( lost by 20 to Nets) and game that ended a streak( lost by 28 to Nets), win vs Pistons, win vs Cavs, just to lose 4 straight with margin of L being 13 points show you that whole thing was more heep of a moment than something you could actually build serious foundations on.

Goga would not help our ongoing issues, we have poor spacing. Having another person that does nothing outside 5 feet won't help.

We don't lose games because our defense sucks, but because we have complete lack of offensive creativity. Playing stiff 7 foot C who can only roll solves nothing.

We also have no inside presence. Houston just started attacking the paint, and that was the turning point in the game. You can basically put a guard on Wendell and Paolo.

So you think Wendell is the answer because he shoots 3s?

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[jezzerinho]

pointless exercise but i went back and watched some of the games during our 9 game streak, what jumps out at me immediately is how much ball and body movement we had....Also Goga is miles and i mean MILES better as a screener than dell.......it's not even close......doesn't seem like we're playing the same brand of basketball now.....hmmm i wonder what changed....i wonder......

100% agree.

When the ball moves and the players move off-ball, we win. Been that way all season.

Yea but you have to step back and see who Magic played.

6 out of 9 teams with negative record.

games:
1) Bulls 4-8 record
2) Bulls 4-9 record
3) Pacers 7-5
4) Raptors 6-8
5) Nuggets 10-5
6) Celtics 12-4
7) Hornets 5-10
8) Wizards 3-15
9) Wizards 3-16


Also it was start of a season, we were not team that others took too serious nor scouted us well, you had situations where Black was getting closeouts or even teams that were chasing Goga on perimeter, like he will do anything there. Element of suprise, along with our hustle was massive.

And when you look game before a streak ( lost by 20 to Nets) and game that ended a streak( lost by 28 to Nets), win vs Pistons, win vs Cavs, just to lose 4 straight with margin of L being 13 points show you that whole thing was more heep of a moment than something you could actually build serious foundations on.

Goga would not help our ongoing issues, we have poor spacing. Having another person that does nothing outside 5 feet won't help.

We don't lose games because our defense sucks, but because we have complete lack of offensive creativity. Playing stiff 7 foot C who can only roll solves nothing.

I was agreeing to the non-ball-movement part. The correlation between the ball/players sticking and us losing appears to be like 0.999.

[MagicMatic]

Yeah I hate judging anything off out of context screenshots, but Paolo is a black hole on offense and I don’t need to rewatch the last 3 games to know that. Mosely allows it.

The offense boils down to “Paolo get the mismatch and drive to the basket regardless of outcome” … yeah that doesn’t work against coaches that know what they are doing.

It isn’t efficient offense. It’s lazy, slow, relies on refs calling fouls, and leans on players being able to shoot out of a kick out IF the pass actually gets to them. I believe you correctly called that the bench would get us into this game and then the starters would kill the progress as soon as Paolo and Fultz were back in that game. Do you think people are dumb enough to not know why?

I mean the issue isn't necessarily that style not being an effective style in the NBA. It's that Paolo himself is not good enough right now to run that style at a high level.

Part of the reason why offenses have exploded so much over the last few years in particularly is because teams realized their best players SHOULD be dominating the ball and using up more possessions than their lesser players.

10 years ago only 7 players had at least a 30 USG%. This year 20 players have done it. It's more or less tripled in just a decade.

There's 54 guys with at least a 25 USG% this season. 10 years ago that was only 35 players.

NBA offenses are more heliocentric than they have been in a very long time.

The Magic are playing a similar style offensively that basically every contender runs. They just don't have enough shooting from their role players and Paolo's just not efficient enough *right now* to justify it the amount of usage he gets.

But he's also only 21 years old and should continue to improve. The hope is that all these on-ball reps he's being force fed will help his long-term development as a scorer/playmaker rather than build potentially unbreakable bad habits.

The issue I have is less to do with the fact that he’s the focal part of the offense and more to do with the idea that it’s largely inefficient offense despite having other options. Does Mosely have a clause in his new contract that states he has to iso Paolo on every possession ? The bench unit shouldn’t be more efficient than your starting lineup with a #1 pick Rookie of the Year that you are going to inevitably max.

I know the weaknesses with the roster. As a coach Mosely has to figure out a better system instead of shoving a square peg into a round hole and getting frustrated when it doesn’t work. No shooters? Houstan and Gary weren’t available? I know. Let’s throw Fultz out there for 35 minutes. That’ll solve that problem…

Him being young is a card that works for how long? It’s not like he’s out there developing good habits when we are watching these games. That’s where we agree. Its somehow worse when you know it didn’t have to look like this if the FO just acquired a vet PG instead of sitting back and thinking Fultz was any kind of answer.

[thelead]

Mosley is a good coach. He earned his extension. He deserves to be the team’s coach for the foreseeable future… but his offense sucks and it’s not just the players. It’s his strategy and his rotations.

[swarlesbarkley]

pointless exercise but i went back and watched some of the games during our 9 game streak, what jumps out at me immediately is how much ball and body movement we had....Also Goga is miles and i mean MILES better as a screener than dell.......it's not even close......doesn't seem like we're playing the same brand of basketball now.....hmmm i wonder what changed....i wonder......

Are you referring to some drama? Or is it just that WCJ went back into the lineup? Seriously asking.

[Knightro]

The issue I have is less to do with the fact that he’s the focal part of the offense and more to do with the idea that it’s largely inefficient offense despite having other options. Does Mosely have a clause in his new contract that states he has to iso Paolo on every possession ? The bench unit shouldn’t be more efficient than your starting lineup with a #1 pick Rookie of the Year that you are going to inevitably max.

I know the weaknesses with the roster. As a coach Mosely has to figure out a better system instead of shoving a square peg into a round hole and getting frustrated when it doesn’t work. No shooters? Houstan and Gary weren’t available? I know. Let’s throw Fultz out there for 35 minutes. That’ll solve that problem…

Him being young is a card that works for how long? It’s not like he’s out there developing good habits when we are watching these games. That’s where we agree. Its somehow worse when you know it didn’t have to look like this if the FO just acquired a vet PG instead of sitting back and thinking Fultz was any kind of answer.

I see both sides of it.

This year, while encouraging in many respects, was never really a "contending" season regardless of what moves they made at PG and how much shooting they added.

So if there was ever a time to force feed Paolo a 30 USG% and live with the ugly in the hopes of developing some great for next year and beyond, this was the year to do it, right?

We'll just see if it actually pays off in the long-run or not.

[Bergmaniac]

As I've said before, a non-shooting big who sets good screens and is a very good offensive rebounder can still be a part of a good offense even in the modern NBA because he is stll a significant threat as a roller and can grab plenty of boards when his man leaves him to help.

Wendell's spacing is more theoretical anyway, he is left wide open at the three point line all the freaking time and no wonder since he makes only 1.2 threes per game. Smart teams won't stop packing the paint because of this. Even on a hot shotting night he never makes more than 3 threes. He hasn't made more than 3 threes in a game all season and has 16 games games with 0 made threes compared with only 8 games with 3 made threes. Smart defenses will live with his occassional three if that's the price for packing the paint and limiting the offensive boards.

[basketballRob]

As I've said before, a non-shooting big who sets good screens and is a very good offensive rebounder can still be a part of a good offense even in the modern NBA because he is stll a significant threat as a roller and can grab plenty of boards when his man leaves him to help.

Wendell's spacing is more theoretical anyway, he is left wide open at the three point line all the freaking time and no wonder since he makes only 1.2 threes per game. Smart teams won't stop packing the paint because of this. Even on a hot shotting night he never makes more than 3 threes. He hasn't made more than 3 threes in a game all season and has 16 games games with 0 made threes compared with only 8 games with 3 made threes. Smart defenses will live with his occassional three if that's the price for packing the paint and limiting the offensive boards.

Wendell on the 3-pt line just means fewer possessions because of offensive rebounding. Paolo also plays better with a center in the dunkers' spot. He had way more dump offs to Mark Williams at Duke than he's had with Wendell in 2 seasons. Goga has a better feel for the game. Goga in this starting lineup has a net rating of 19.1.

The game last night was over when Houston decided to attack the paint.

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[MagicMatic]

The issue I have is less to do with the fact that he’s the focal part of the offense and more to do with the idea that it’s largely inefficient offense despite having other options. Does Mosely have a clause in his new contract that states he has to iso Paolo on every possession ? The bench unit shouldn’t be more efficient than your starting lineup with a #1 pick Rookie of the Year that you are going to inevitably max.

I know the weaknesses with the roster. As a coach Mosely has to figure out a better system instead of shoving a square peg into a round hole and getting frustrated when it doesn’t work. No shooters? Houstan and Gary weren’t available? I know. Let’s throw Fultz out there for 35 minutes. That’ll solve that problem…

Him being young is a card that works for how long? It’s not like he’s out there developing good habits when we are watching these games. That’s where we agree. Its somehow worse when you know it didn’t have to look like this if the FO just acquired a vet PG instead of sitting back and thinking Fultz was any kind of answer.

I see both sides of it.

This year, while encouraging in many respects, was never really a "contending" season regardless of what moves they made at PG and how much shooting they added.

So if there was ever a time to force feed Paolo a 30 USG% and live with the ugly in the hopes of developing some great for next year and beyond, this was the year to do it, right?

We'll just see if it actually pays off in the long-run or not.

Yeah I’m not even really too upset about the playoffs. Didn’t care if they even made it this season. Contending wasn’t on the table. But I do want to see the framework of a system in place. These last few games have left a lot to be desired on that front. It’s like they regressed since October/November somehow.