2023-2024 Regular Season Game 81: Orlando Magic (46-34) at Philadelphia 76ers (45-35) - 7pm

[Skybox]

Id throw the kitchen sink at a guy like Darius Garland if the cavs flame out

No way that happens unless Mitchell agrees to extend. CLE's struggles make me think their FO low-key hope Mitchell publicly "forces" them to move off of him and take a step back and commit to their homemade core of Garland & Mobley long term...I think Mitchell was too good to not try, but not really an ideal backcourt match at all.

The opposite of ORL's all-defense, no-offense backcourt and ORL's all-offense, no rim-protection frontcourt...Paolo and Franz are just super-sized Guards who are walking mismatches - but we still need a real guard and a real rim-protecting big in the starting lineup.

But Yeah...Garland would be great. Maybe Allen in the same deal with WCJ going back with lots of other stuff

[Rainwater]

It’s not like the rest of the East coast has been on fire post ASB, but for some reason our struggles are enough to question our entire identity while everyone else is presumed to be some kind of legit.

It’s just part of the growth of the team. This time last year we were hoping against odds of making the play-in. This time we’ve been hoping against odds for #2 (or HCA). We improved in the year between those events and got into a position where these games count more than they did the season before. That’s progress.

Yeah, I don't get the over reactions. We are a bottom 10 offense and a top 5 defense who is great at home and against sub .500 teams and decent against above .500 teams. We have one of the most successful young cores of all time and are ahead of schedule. We've particularly been struggling against playoff teams with a few bad road losses against sub .500 teams mixed in.

The recent dip in defensive performance is almost certainly a slump and not a trend. We can be confident we'll get our top 5 defense back in time for the play-ins or playoffs.

This season's success will be driven by Paolo, Franz, Suggs, Cole, Isaac, and probably Moe. The core will gain invaluable experience.

We should not expect a first round victory but we should absolutely root for one and envision the scenario's where we win. We can definitely win a series, I'd expect its a 33% probability or something.

Long-term, our success will be driven primarily by the development of Paolo, Franz, Suggs, AB, and Jett, along with critical role player acquisitions. We know the role players that need to be shipped out, WCJ, Fultz, and Harris just don't seem to fit or have a long-term spot on this team.

I wish people looked at things the way you guys do.

[Rainwater]

2-10 record in the last 12 games against .500 teams makes the current state a bit less rosy than the standings will make you believe.

It’s not like the rest of the East coast has been on fire post ASB, but for some reason our struggles are enough to question our entire identity while everyone else is presumed to be some kind of legit.

It’s just part of the growth of the team. This time last year we were hoping against odds of making the play-in. This time we’ve been hoping against odds for #2 (or HCA). We improved in the year between those events and got into a position where these games count more than they did the season before. That’s progress.

Why should we care about rest of the East?
Most of the teams had problems with injuries that we were lucky not to have - Philadelphia, Cleveland and Knicks in particular.

We have improved of course, this is obvious, but should this stop people complain or this is the moment to get the improvement trophy and call it a season?
Lets strive for more.

Yes, let’s thrive for more but there has to be a little realization that this team is young and has a lot of flaws. Yes, understand latest struggles but there has to understanding the team is just not there yet and what is happening now is to be expected.

[JF5]

He looked good, considering he really hasn't played competitive basketball in months. If you haven't noticed, Moe never guards on the perimeter, and Wendell isn't chasing down Maxey either.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

If he was "good" he wouldn't have played less than 13 minutes. On top of that he was pulled after the first 6 minutes of the 3rd as the Sixers doubled the lead when he was on the floor not to be seen again. He was there to play defense and it was ineffective.

Then on the offensive end he just allowed Embiid to play off of him and clog the paint and being able to place a shadowy 2nd player to cut off drives to the basket.

There were back-to-back plays in the first half where Paolo was about to go to the rim but Embiid (along with the guy guarding Paolo) was right there to force Paolo to shoot a tough fade away shot.

The very next play again was very similar where Cole attempted to get to the rim and he was met by Embiid and the dude defending him causing Cole to take a tough fadeaway from close.

The irony before which makes me laugh is that people complained that Fultz clogged the paint. But the guy who would play off him would be a guard who couldn't put any real resistance to guys like Paolo and Franz.

Now you've got Goga's man who in this game who is a 7 foot, 270+ pound shot blocker who is one of the best defensive big men in the league being able to roam in the paint and make things extremely difficult for Paolo, Wagner and anyone else on the squad who is attempting to attack the rim (as that is this team's primary strength).

Leads by the Sixers was extended immensely every time he was on the court. I just dont understand what you saw that indicates that he played well and helped this team.

Goga is far from his best, right now, because he hasn't played in months. I just think his feel for the game and basketball IQ is much better than Wendell. Goga was a negative net rating mostly because Philadelphia made a bunch of great shots from 3.

If Wendell is out for the season, I do feel like we have a better chance to win even if Goga is a little rusty.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Goga has had similar issues against other good to great teams. Again, we can go as far back to the Boston games in December where he was unplayable in those games too.

Like it was mentioned he's slow footed and can't keep up with perimeter oriented teams with perimeter oriented schemes. And on offense he's just a cleanup guy who clogs the lanes for a team whose strength is to drive the lanes since their best players aren't even close to becoming good shooters.

I don't know how this team works around a player like this since the the offense is already very limited and handicapped as is.

[Rainwater]

Dang how did we slip to possibly playing in the play in game? This outcome feels so anti climactic and doesn't justify the work and progress the team made this year.

How so? lol. I feel like when the Magic started winning games people’s expectations changed when it shouldn’t have, that is the real problem. Most thought they would be fighting for play in spot before the season started, an expectation that that beat by outright making it. However, when they started winning expectations started to become unrealistic.

[Rainwater]

I think we have to make the playoffs and push the team to 6 or 7 games for people to take us seriously next season. If we just get swept or don't make the playoffs, everyone will rank us as a borderline play-in team, and we won't have any national TV games next season.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

lol I completely disagree with all this. I think the progress will be seen regardless.

[basketballRob]

If he was "good" he wouldn't have played less than 13 minutes. On top of that he was pulled after the first 6 minutes of the 3rd as the Sixers doubled the lead when he was on the floor not to be seen again. He was there to play defense and it was ineffective.

Then on the offensive end he just allowed Embiid to play off of him and clog the paint and being able to place a shadowy 2nd player to cut off drives to the basket.

There were back-to-back plays in the first half where Paolo was about to go to the rim but Embiid (along with the guy guarding Paolo) was right there to force Paolo to shoot a tough fade away shot.

The very next play again was very similar where Cole attempted to get to the rim and he was met by Embiid and the dude defending him causing Cole to take a tough fadeaway from close.

The irony before which makes me laugh is that people complained that Fultz clogged the paint. But the guy who would play off him would be a guard who couldn't put any real resistance to guys like Paolo and Franz.

Now you've got Goga's man who in this game who is a 7 foot, 270+ pound shot blocker who is one of the best defensive big men in the league being able to roam in the paint and make things extremely difficult for Paolo, Wagner and anyone else on the squad who is attempting to attack the rim (as that is this team's primary strength).

Leads by the Sixers was extended immensely every time he was on the court. I just dont understand what you saw that indicates that he played well and helped this team.

Goga is far from his best, right now, because he hasn't played in months. I just think his feel for the game and basketball IQ is much better than Wendell. Goga was a negative net rating mostly because Philadelphia made a bunch of great shots from 3.

If Wendell is out for the season, I do feel like we have a better chance to win even if Goga is a little rusty.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Goga has had similar issues against other good to great teams. Again, we can go as far back to the Boston games in December where he was unplayable in those games too.

Like it was mentioned he's slow footed and can't keep up with perimeter oriented teams with perimeter oriented schemes. And on offense he's just a cleanup guy who clogs the lanes for a team whose strength is to drive the lanes since their best players aren't even close to becoming good shooters.

I don't know how this team works around a player like this since the the offense is already very limited and handicapped as is.

We don't need Wendell's 3s. We need a center that focuses on setting screens and is in a position to get an offensive rebound. Wendell has never been a part of a good offense.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[MagicMatic]

Goga is far from his best, right now, because he hasn't played in months. I just think his feel for the game and basketball IQ is much better than Wendell. Goga was a negative net rating mostly because Philadelphia made a bunch of great shots from 3.

If Wendell is out for the season, I do feel like we have a better chance to win even if Goga is a little rusty.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Goga has had similar issues against other good to great teams. Again, we can go as far back to the Boston games in December where he was unplayable in those games too.

Like it was mentioned he's slow footed and can't keep up with perimeter oriented teams with perimeter oriented schemes. And on offense he's just a cleanup guy who clogs the lanes for a team whose strength is to drive the lanes since their best players aren't even close to becoming good shooters.

I don't know how this team works around a player like this since the the offense is already very limited and handicapped as is.

We don't need Wendell's 3s. We need a center that focuses on setting screens and is in a position to get an offensive rebound. Wendell has never been a part of a good offense.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

This.

Carter’s defense has been good. Gogas rebounding and positioning down low gives Paolo better spacing. Otherwise it’s an easy double on him with Carter out on the perimeter. Sure, Carter can hit threes.

I’d rather Paolo be more efficient though with 1-3 being able to shoot at higher volume than a gimmicky Center that is basically a stretch PF next to an already face up PF in Paolo. Isaac plays in the second unit next to Mo for added defense, and limited minutes, but he too looks better next to Paolo than Carter. Carter is a terrible finisher inside for anything other than a lob. Orlando needs a Center that can get positioning like Goga, but that can also finish under the rim off a pass.

Carter makes a lot of bad mistakes on the court that don’t make up for his shooting. He also causes defenses to crowd on Paolo and it’s not like defenses adjust their game plan to Carters shooting.

[ibraheim718]

Realgm -Paolo is young, not ready to win, not a first option yet.
Also Realgm- why we didnt use assets to win with Paolo this year ?

Answer is simple. Paolo and Franz are not ready to win big this year and thats why Weltman didnt use assets. I think he went too far with this "family" thing, and made it too hard for Banchero and Wagner though. We could have evolved and now we need more of a revolution. Playing without a competent point guard is not the best way to learn the game imo.

You're right they aren't ready to win this year but there are some things those guys need to learn and I don't think outside of Mosley they have the right people there to show them instead of Joe Ingles or Marcella Fultz or even Gary "take the night off" Harris.

Also this will be the last time I say it Wagner and Ranchero need to take the summer off.. they owe it to the organization and the fans and they owe it to their own stamina and endurance. They should dedicate themselves to their craft this summer and rest and recharge.

They shouldn't be struggling like this to get into the playoffs. People will say "ah they're young" which they are but they have a ton of talent on that roster. You've got all-nba defenders and two 20ppg scorers. They get taken advantage of by older teams but they should've caught on a little bit by now.

You are absolutely right but it's never going to happen in an Olympic year. Both those guys are dedicated to supporting the national teams.

It's just too much basketball. Suggs made the biggest improvements out of anyone on the team and that's probably because he took the summer to focus on his health and his skills. And yes he had a lot of room to improve but he had a huge jump in 3pt shooting percentage that has to be credited to the work he put in. Me personally I can't stand international basketball. I don't watch it. I don't care about it. It's not even in the same stratosphere as NBA basketball. I don't care what anyone says.

Let's hope at least one of them take the summer off. That's why I respect the hell out of Jokic. He gets it. When the NBA season is over he goes back to his farm in Serbia and rests. And now that the playoffs are getting ready to start you're going to see him put it into another gear while Franchero is running on fumes.

[eyriq]

Dang how did we slip to possibly playing in the play in game? This outcome feels so anti climactic and doesn't justify the work and progress the team made this year.

How so? lol. I feel like when the Magic started winning games people’s expectations changed when it shouldn’t have, that is the real problem. Most thought they would be fighting for play in spot before the season started, an expectation that that beat by outright making it. However, when they started winning expectations started to become unrealistic.

I was thinking about preseason goals for this team. I remember Weltman mentioned that he wanted to see us "play better". His off-season strategy spoke to this as he pretty much ran it back with the key additions being Ingles and two lottery picks. Pretty clear "show me what you got" challenge to the young core and Mosley. Considering he extended Mosley when he did, it's clear that the team has already exceeded expectations.

It was Paolo's goal, and probably the goal of a lot of his teammates, to make the playoffs. But when the key additions on a 34-win team are Ingles and two lottery picks, making the playoffs is not the goal. It's a stretch goal if anything.

[basketballRob]

At least 5 of Paolo's misses should've been fouls.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[MagicMatic]

Realgm -Paolo is young, not ready to win, not a first option yet.
Also Realgm- why we didnt use assets to win with Paolo this year ?

Answer is simple. Paolo and Franz are not ready to win big this year and thats why Weltman didnt use assets. I think he went too far with this "family" thing, and made it too hard for Banchero and Wagner though. We could have evolved and now we need more of a revolution. Playing without a competent point guard is not the best way to learn the game imo.

You're right they aren't ready to win this year but there are some things those guys need to learn and I don't think outside of Mosley they have the right people there to show them instead of Joe Ingles or Marcella Fultz or even Gary "take the night off" Harris.

Also this will be the last time I say it Wagner and Ranchero need to take the summer off.. they owe it to the organization and the fans and they owe it to their own stamina and endurance. They should dedicate themselves to their craft this summer and rest and recharge.

They shouldn't be struggling like this to get into the playoffs. People will say "ah they're young" which they are but they have a ton of talent on that roster. You've got all-nba defenders and two 20ppg scorers. They get taken advantage of by older teams but they should've caught on a little bit by now.

I also dont think we should surround our core with losers like WCJ or Fultz, or that playing without a competent point guard is great for developing forwards but front office thought accumulating assets is more important and i can understand that. They also didnt extend Fultz and there were rumours about moving WCJ so maybe they thay can still see the reality. We would easly make playoffs if we had anyone instead of Fultz, but we also saw front office likes to stay in the lottery longer.

It’s not that people believe Paolo and Franz should be competing this season.

It’s more about developing better habits and the Magic as an organization starting to build the framework of a system around their core. They have to do it gradually. So why haven’t they started at all??? The only argument people could possibly make is with Jett and AB, and they haven’t played at all.

Even people that don’t believe Gary, Carter, Fultz, Ingles, and the possibility of Cole, Mo, Isaac etc… are going to be on the roster in 2-3 seasons can tell you that this isn’t efficient basketball. Paolo and Franz look like they’ve regressed over the season.

It shouldn’t take 5 years to find players that can match well with the core’s skill sets. Even if you believe the FO is going to actually find these players yet to be named, it still takes more time for them to grow.

This group isn’t even in the BUILD phase yet of landing those complementary players. And no, I don’t believe this FO miraculously had all the correct role players before they drafted their core. That would be the dumbest thing imaginable to believe.

[Skybox]

Dang how did we slip to possibly playing in the play in game? This outcome feels so anti climactic and doesn't justify the work and progress the team made this year.

How so? lol. I feel like when the Magic started winning games people’s expectations changed when it shouldn’t have, that is the real problem. Most thought they would be fighting for play in spot before the season started, an expectation that that beat by outright making it. However, when they started winning expectations started to become unrealistic.

I was thinking about preseason goals for this team. I remember Weltman mentioned that he wanted to see us "play better". His off-season strategy spoke to this as he pretty much ran it back with the key additions being Ingles and two lottery picks.Pretty clear "show me what you got" challenge to the young core and Mosley. Considering he extended Mosley when he did, it's clear that the team has already exceeded expectations.

It was Paolo's goal, and probably the goal of a lot of his teammates, to make the playoffs. But when the key additions on a 34-win team are Ingles and two lottery picks, making the playoffs is not the goal. It's a stretch goal if anything.

What a genius leadership technique How about helping build a sound roster - that's the GM's responsibility.

[JoshuaPotter]

How so? lol. I feel like when the Magic started winning games people’s expectations changed when it shouldn’t have, that is the real problem. Most thought they would be fighting for play in spot before the season started, an expectation that that beat by outright making it. However, when they started winning expectations started to become unrealistic.

I was thinking about preseason goals for this team. I remember Weltman mentioned that he wanted to see us "play better". His off-season strategy spoke to this as he pretty much ran it back with the key additions being Ingles and two lottery picks.Pretty clear "show me what you got" challenge to the young core and Mosley. Considering he extended Mosley when he did, it's clear that the team has already exceeded expectations.

It was Paolo's goal, and probably the goal of a lot of his teammates, to make the playoffs. But when the key additions on a 34-win team are Ingles and two lottery picks, making the playoffs is not the goal. It's a stretch goal if anything.

What a genius leadership technique How about helping build a sound roster - that's the GM's responsibility.

That's the thing, there was enough of a sound roster to win 47 games. I'm not saying we don't have glaring weaknesses. The team does. Now from here, anyone can look at it and say what the problem is.

The question for me right now is, what team are they building? In the Howard era, the team we needed to build was obvious.

Is it so obvious this time around?