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Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread

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Re: Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread 

Post#421 » by RookieStar » Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:07 pm

SOUL wrote:
Knightro wrote:I'd love to be a fly on the wall to determine who ultimately made the decision to play Fultz.

I can't possibly imagine Mosley could watch this guy every day in practices and games truly believe he was the best option to fill those minutes.

I can't help but wonder if the front office are the ones who truly can't quit Markelle since they acquired him well before Mosley ever even got here.


In the same vein as Amen Thompson moving from backup PG (who we exploited the first game) to starting PF/C for them, I feel like he just has a loose handle and no consistent dribble drive ability or wiggle to create space with his shot.

Guards need that. Jett even has it, we can see him do it on those step-back three with very little space.

Anthony Black gets guarded by a bigger guy and it's curtains sometimes if they can stick with his speed.

That's why I have always looked at him as an Ingles replacement instead of a starting/backup PG.


Same... I know he was touted as a PG coming in but so far his game play screams Wing to me. Now if he really has dribble and playmaking ability, then I think his best bet moving forward is like a homeless version of Luka/Cade which I think is what Jingles is right now for us.
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Re: Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread 

Post#422 » by basketballRob » Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:36 pm

RookieStar wrote:
SOUL wrote:
Knightro wrote:I'd love to be a fly on the wall to determine who ultimately made the decision to play Fultz.

I can't possibly imagine Mosley could watch this guy every day in practices and games truly believe he was the best option to fill those minutes.

I can't help but wonder if the front office are the ones who truly can't quit Markelle since they acquired him well before Mosley ever even got here.


In the same vein as Amen Thompson moving from backup PG (who we exploited the first game) to starting PF/C for them, I feel like he just has a loose handle and no consistent dribble drive ability or wiggle to create space with his shot.

Guards need that. Jett even has it, we can see him do it on those step-back three with very little space.

Anthony Black gets guarded by a bigger guy and it's curtains sometimes if they can stick with his speed.

That's why I have always looked at him as an Ingles replacement instead of a starting/backup PG.


Same... I know he was touted as a PG coming in but so far his game play screams Wing to me. Now if he really has dribble and playmaking ability, then I think his best bet moving forward is like a homeless version of Luka/Cade which I think is what Jingles is right now for us.
He can play PG because your position is what you can guard. He had some of his best defensive games against DLo, Brunson, and Haliburton. I'm looking forward to seeing AB in the summer league this year.

Amen, can't make shot over 10' is why he plays PF on offense.

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Re: Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread 

Post#423 » by SOUL » Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:39 pm

It's pedantic. In that case, Isaac can be PG because he can guard them.

He's still lacking major traditional aspects of what makes point guards dynamic so far. I won't doubt in his ability to get better there, but usually you have it or you don't.
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Re: Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread 

Post#424 » by basketballRob » Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:41 pm

SOUL wrote:It's pedantic. In that case, Isaac can be PG because he can guard them.

He's still lacking major traditional aspects of what makes point guards dynamic so far. I won't doubt in his ability to get better there, but usually you have it or you don't.
Except, Black always guards the PG.

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Re: Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread 

Post#425 » by Skin » Wed Apr 24, 2024 11:32 pm

We are still Choir Boys. Nothing will change until that changes.
Jett Howard, Franz Wagner, Paolo Banchero, Jonathan Isaac, Wendell Carter Jr
Anthony Black, Cole Anthony, Jalen Suggs, Joe Ingles, Chuma Okeke, Mo Wagner, Goga Bitadze LESSSGOOO!!!
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Re: Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread 

Post#426 » by yoyojw17 » Wed Apr 24, 2024 11:48 pm

basketballRob wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
SOUL wrote:
In the same vein as Amen Thompson moving from backup PG (who we exploited the first game) to starting PF/C for them, I feel like he just has a loose handle and no consistent dribble drive ability or wiggle to create space with his shot.

Guards need that. Jett even has it, we can see him do it on those step-back three with very little space.

Anthony Black gets guarded by a bigger guy and it's curtains sometimes if they can stick with his speed.

That's why I have always looked at him as an Ingles replacement instead of a starting/backup PG.


Same... I know he was touted as a PG coming in but so far his game play screams Wing to me. Now if he really has dribble and playmaking ability, then I think his best bet moving forward is like a homeless version of Luka/Cade which I think is what Jingles is right now for us.
He can play PG because your position is what you can guard. He had some of his best defensive games against DLo, Brunson, and Haliburton. I'm looking forward to seeing AB in the summer league this year.

Amen, can't make shot over 10' is why he plays PF on offense.

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AB Played the role requested. Play defense... and take decent shots when open. Majority of the ball handling is shared between paolo and franz. Those two are developing too... and this was their year to be high usage players while everyone else plays supplemental roles. AB will have his chance next season after a summer of growth. this was a year of experience.... same way as getting our butts whooped in the first round. lol

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2023-nba-draft-grades-magic-select-anthony-black-with-no-6-overall-pick/

Black wasn't an elite scorer at Arkansas, but he brings a number of other valuable traits to the table. His basketball IQ, size and vision make him one of the best passers in this class, and while he isn't an elite athlete, he uses his size effectively on defense. Like so many other players in this year's draft, Black has a lot riding on the development of his jump shot. He made just 30.1% of his 3-pointers last season, and if that doesn't improve, teams are going to leave him alone from deep.

I love it. This is someone who many thought would last to No. 8, but that would have been too late for a player who can contribute on both sides. He has proven himself to be a true big point guard, adding weight without losing speed or agility. The question is his shooting, and he has looked better in the draft process than he looked in college. If he can figure that end out, he will be a top-five player in this class no doubt. Grade: A


Well... looks like shooting might not be as much of an issue at this point. I still believe that the high bball iq player still exists and will be released more and more in the future.
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Re: Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread 

Post#427 » by RookieStar » Wed Apr 24, 2024 11:52 pm

basketballRob wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
SOUL wrote:
In the same vein as Amen Thompson moving from backup PG (who we exploited the first game) to starting PF/C for them, I feel like he just has a loose handle and no consistent dribble drive ability or wiggle to create space with his shot.

Guards need that. Jett even has it, we can see him do it on those step-back three with very little space.

Anthony Black gets guarded by a bigger guy and it's curtains sometimes if they can stick with his speed.

That's why I have always looked at him as an Ingles replacement instead of a starting/backup PG.


Same... I know he was touted as a PG coming in but so far his game play screams Wing to me. Now if he really has dribble and playmaking ability, then I think his best bet moving forward is like a homeless version of Luka/Cade which I think is what Jingles is right now for us.
He can play PG because your position is what you can guard. He had some of his best defensive games against DLo, Brunson, and Haliburton. I'm looking forward to seeing AB in the summer league this year.

Amen, can't make shot over 10' is why he plays PF on offense.

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So.. since JI , JJJr , OG , DFS , McDaniels can guard PGs they can be considered PG?

PG is the general.on the court. Until AB can show mr the dribbling ability through traffic like Cole/Fultz does or just playmake instead of just handing over thr ball.once through halfcourt, i cant consider AB a fulltime PG yet.
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Re: Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread 

Post#428 » by eyriq » Thu Apr 25, 2024 12:34 am

Skybox wrote:Just (attempting to) draft PGs doesn't mean we actually have a viable one on the roster.

You can spit out the words "sunk costs" regularly without actually getting it
You still at it, eh?
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Re: Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread 

Post#429 » by ReadyOrlando » Thu Apr 25, 2024 12:39 am

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Re: Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread 

Post#430 » by drsd » Thu Apr 25, 2024 1:24 am

JoshuaPotter wrote:Good luck and whatever God you believe in be with you.


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Knightro wrote:He (G-Harris) doesn’t shoot a lot because he doesn’t really get the ball a lot. He was 9th on the team in front court touches per game with just 15 front court touches per game.

If you break things down on a “shot attempts per passes received in the front court” level, you’d understand more where the issues lie offensively and it’s not really Gary being awful like you think.


One core problem with the SG slot on this team is that Coach has a very simple offensive strategy. It's a chicken-egg thing. Is it that Coach Mosley doesn't believe in his SGs so he designs no set plays for them, or is it that he is fascinated with the forwards playing Heroball and seeing were that leads, play in and play out?

Interesting presser from Coach:
Basically he stated that nothing will change and that his coaching to the teams was to, "step in to your shots and make them". Yeh. Sure. It's all that simple!

Here we armchair PGs have been screaming for shot making (we only disagree on the how; I think we are all good with the what, why and when). But for coach to basically state that it isn't the play calling but the execution that's the problem, I am not OK with that.

For example: the PnR is the NBA's most effective play. Ingles to M-Wagner has been GOLDEN with that play all season. Why aren't the starting guards MUCH more involved in set-play PnR's ????

Anyhow, here's hoping for a solid game-3 outcome.
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Re: Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread 

Post#431 » by Viper1500 » Thu Apr 25, 2024 1:25 am

If games 3 and 4 go like games 1 and 2, I'd consider this to be a somewhat fail of a season. These games are not close, we are not competitive. Getting swept by a Cavs team that isn't very good, and finishing the regular season the way we did, ouch.
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Re: Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread 

Post#432 » by BadMofoPimp » Thu Apr 25, 2024 3:08 am

I had a laugh when I read,"His basketball IQ, size and vision make him one of the best passers in this class." So good he got 1.3apg . Still hope he can improve.
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Re: Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread 

Post#433 » by KillMonger » Thu Apr 25, 2024 3:30 am

Whatever happens I think this is going to be good for mose.... Its showing his sets aren't good enough, good for the players as well.... They need to put way more work in

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Re: Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread 

Post#434 » by SOUL » Thu Apr 25, 2024 3:35 am

KillMonger wrote:Whatever happens I think this is going to be good for mose.... Its showing his sets aren't good enough, good for the players as well.... They need to put way more work in

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#1 eye opener should far and away be the front office
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Re: Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread 

Post#435 » by KillMonger » Thu Apr 25, 2024 4:13 am

SOUL wrote:
KillMonger wrote:Whatever happens I think this is going to be good for mose.... Its showing his sets aren't good enough, good for the players as well.... They need to put way more work in

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#1 eye opener should far and away be the front office
All around, top to bottom... Executives.... Players... Everyone in some way should take something substantial from this exposing/experience

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Re: Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread 

Post#436 » by pepe1991 » Thu Apr 25, 2024 5:52 am

He aint wrong about screeming while being down by 24 part

Him and Suggs were flexing after random plays while being down by 20 , several times, in both games.
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Re: Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread 

Post#437 » by dsg2021 » Thu Apr 25, 2024 6:28 am

I would start Jalen Suggs, Caleb Houstan, Franz Wagner, Paolo Banchero, Jonathan Isaac.
I would also consider starting Goga, replacing Caleb. But my gut says that Caleb starts and plays for like 5 minutes, spacing it out and sharing his confidence to shoot. Caleb and JI know what to do when they catch it. We're at Home now, it's going in the net tonight.

Goga now eats much of Wendell's minutes. And Black is eating the 'Kelle minutes on a trial basis too.

I want Garland to go for 30-40+ from the perimeter to beat me. I'm not happy with CLE averaging 94, because I bet we can make them average 80. So I'm stopping all their guards from driving easily, I am stopping this 9 offensive rebounds from Allen in one game, and this twin towers that's going on with Mobley. Goga, you're up. I would have been playing you in parts of the last 10 games of the regular season, but you're a pro, I expect you to get hot from cold.

I would give Franz the ball early on, PnR's and set plays, whatever the F he wants, to get him going into that mode we've seen before, where everything is getting easy for him in the 2nd half, but now it starts from the 1st quarter. But also because, I am taking him out 2 minutes earlier than Paolo, to stagger him him into the 2nd Unit a little bit with his brother and Joe. Yes, of course Mo is getting his 20 minutes minimum. I also think Joe will shine more once the rest of the players have woken up from a coma and showed up with a pulse in how to shoot a basketball.

Then I am instructing the Magic players on a couple of things very bluntly. "I am glad that in the regular season you guys were master geniuses at drives and cuts and passes, and this meant not taking an early open shot."

"But we're not in the regular season right now. Your guys' offense is absolutely atrocious to watch in the Playoffs."

"It's not that I don't want to stop you guys from the clever drives, cuts and passes. It's that I see you guys hesitating on open shots just because it's early in the shot clock or just because there's 6 seconds left and you're not 100% confident like Steph Curry. Stop that weak sh it."

"We're so bad that taking open shots with 15 on the shot clock is actually a really good idea right now. Mid-range shots are cool again, too."

"And when you drive, let's play a game with that. I dare you guys to drive and look to score from it almost half the time. That's right, if you "drived and dished" 2-3 times without trying to score from it, get that weak sh it out of here. I don't care if you get poster blocked, I want you to fly your body into there, exact a price on their bodies and try to score on that sh it. We're the Magic. They score 80 on our defense, and we drive like freight trains into their bodies on the way to 90. Magic in 6."
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Re: Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread 

Post#438 » by Skin » Thu Apr 25, 2024 6:40 am

I would start Anthony Black, Franz Wagner, Paolo Banchero, Jonathan Isaac, Wendell Carter Jr.
Jett Howard, Franz Wagner, Paolo Banchero, Jonathan Isaac, Wendell Carter Jr
Anthony Black, Cole Anthony, Jalen Suggs, Joe Ingles, Chuma Okeke, Mo Wagner, Goga Bitadze LESSSGOOO!!!
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Re: Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread 

Post#439 » by ogmagicfan » Thu Apr 25, 2024 6:57 am

I think we gotta start Wendell. Isaac can't take heavy mins at the center position and has been outmatched on boards.

I feel Isaac will have a greater defensive impact & rebounding game playing at the 4

Hopefully Wendell can play with a good motor. Allen has been alot to handle so far, salute to him for turning it around after a stinker against the Knicks last yr

Proof of value in having previous playoff experience
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Re: Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread 

Post#440 » by pepe1991 » Thu Apr 25, 2024 7:49 am

If i write everything i think i'll get myself banned.

I just can't deal with random "play Black" crap. So i will shut up about it.
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