Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread

[Skybox]

Forget about this year, I will forever die on the hill that what Markelle Fultz did *last year* was not good enough to justify his role, but ultimately that’s not relevant in the here and now.

Sometimes things play out exactly as they appeared they would…or even worse.

[pepe1991]

Forget about this year, I will forever die on the hill that what Markelle Fultz did *last year* was not good enough to justify his role, but ultimately that’s not relevant in the here and now.

Sometimes things play out exactly as they appeared they would…or even worse.

Never trust "progress" made in year 6. Life ain't netflix sports drama.

[Knightro]

I’m still not convinced that Fultz isn’t going to get a new contract this summer.

Obviously, he shouldn’t but the fact is he still playing and has played all year when he’s been healthy enough to be on the court.

If he isn’t in the plans for next year, then I just don’t understand why he’s still playing.

[bigdogdylan5]

Forget about this year, I will forever die on the hill that what Markelle Fultz did *last year* was not good enough to justify his role, but ultimately that’s not relevant in the here and now.

Sometimes things play out exactly as they appeared they would…or even worse.

At least from my perspective i still didn’t see a better option last summer at the time. He was never going to be a shooter but i don’t think anyone saw him completely regressing this much. It became the worst possible situation as Black just is nowhere near ready to run an NBa offense in a playoff push. You can’t expect him to work on his shooting and learn how to run an NBA offense in one rookie season.

I do wonder if we were worse as a team would Mosley have handed more responsibilities to Black. It was a struggle as he clearly was over his head and the team looked way better than expected. I mean Weltman said it that they are way ahead of where they thought they would be.

We can talk about the PG position and getting more shooting till the cows come home (I think they should and will) but Paolo Suggs Franz have to level up too. Those three could represent 70% of our cap in two years. Paolo is not efficient enough around the rim. Franz needs to figure out the three point shooting and Suggs has to be more than a spot up shooter on offense. That is where we are putting our money they have the responsibility with that money to carry this team.

[JoshuaPotter]

I’m still not convinced that Fultz isn’t going to get a new contract this summer.

Obviously, he shouldn’t but the fact is he still playing and has played all year when he’s been healthy enough to be on the court.

If he isn’t in the plans for next year, then I just don’t understand why he’s still playing.

You and me both.

[GelbeWand09]

Last years Fultz woudnt make any difference in this years playoffs. He was probably the worst starting PG that year too & a horrible fit.
They should've traded him at last years deadline & get Van Fleet instead. Same in the offeseason.

[MagicMatic]

We all agree Fultz should no longer play. It's common sense. Finally

Only took 2 years for people to understand

[basketballRob]

Goga and Black in the starting and playing 6 minutes each half would make us much deeper. I believe we've been outscored in something like 13 of the last 15 first quarters. So what we've been doing doesn't work.

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[GelbeWand09]

Goga and Black in the starting and playing 6 minutes each half would make us much deeper. I believe we've been outscored in something like 13 of the last 15 first quarters. So what we've been doing doesn't work.

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But this probably got more to do with Franz & Paolo becoming 2 of the worst 3 Point shooters in the leaque over that span, than the role players. Without at least mediocre 3P shooting between them, the fit is ugly.

[basketballRob]

Goga and Black in the starting and playing 6 minutes each half would make us much deeper. I believe we've been outscored in something like 13 of the last 15 first quarters. So what we've been doing doesn't work.

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But this probably got more to do with Franz & Paolo becoming 2 of the worst 3 Point shooters in the leaque over that span, than the role players. Without at least mediocre 3P shooting between them, the fit is ugly.

It seems like the defense has been bad in the first quarters. Every game, it feels like the other teams are coming out and making every shot.

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[RichCollab]

Forget about this year, I will forever die on the hill that what Markelle Fultz did *last year* was not good enough to justify his role, but ultimately that’s not relevant in the here and now.

Yeah, don’t cry over spilt milk

[drsd]

We can talk about the PG position and getting more shooting till the cows come home (I think they should and will) but Paolo Suggs Franz have to level up too. Those three could represent 70% of our cap in two years. Paolo is not efficient enough around the rim. Franz needs to figure out the three point shooting and Suggs has to be more than a spot up shooter on offense. That is where we are putting our money they have the responsibility with that money to carry this team.

We Magic fans need to come to grips that Banchero, F-Wagner, and Suggs will consume 100M a year between them. Add Carter, M-Wagner and Isaac, the Magic will already be over the cap. That means the rest of the roster will need to be LLE guys, and players on rookie deals. There is no "let's go get a Max player" this Summer. Let that fantasy go.

If Orlando is to contend, it is going to solely come from growth from Orlando's big three. That's it. And you nailed the weak points!


..

[basketballRob]

I feel like our front office tries to be overly nice to players. At the end of the day, money talks. Look at Boston, who played IT injured in the playoffs and got rid of the next season when he was damaged goods. The same thing happened with Robert Williams. Boston still has no problems getting players. Porzingis just took less to be there.

When is being nice to players going to pay off for this front office? This season, we were able to land Ingles. Ingles and Aminu have been the big signings. If Monk or someone else signs here, it won't be because we're nice, it'll be because we offered more money.

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[doct3r dr3]

I know everyone's campaigning to shorten the rotation for the playoffs, but I'm gonna zag here a little bit:

Why don't we start (or at least play) Goga?

The Jonathan Isaac at starting Center experiment didn't go great in Gm 1. Cleveland won points in the paint 48-36. They won rebounds 54-40, with Jarrett Allen snagging 18. Isaac left Allen a few times to hunt weak-side blocks instead of staying home, and gave up some open Allen dunks in the process. During Isaac's minutes, the Cavaliers exploited the Magic's lack of a traditional Center.

Meanwhile, Goga is probably the Magic's best traditional Center. His rim protection numbers are comparable to Isaac's, on more attempts. He leads the team in rebound percentage (when you throw out Kevon Harris's 6 minutes). When the Magic faced Cleveland on 12/11/23, Goga started and held Jarrett Allen to 4 points and -15 (in 15 minutes), while putting up 15 points, 7 rebounds, 4 blocks, and +8 in a 10-point win.

No, he doesn't provide 3-point shooting, but then again, neither did anyone else in Gm 1. If Gary Harris isn't hitting his 3s, then maybe you roll with a modified death lineup of: Goga, JI, Paolo, Franz, and Suggs, with Suggs guarding Garland and JI guarding Mitchell. Then you could bring in Wendell and Moe together off the bench, and get more size and spacing.

[drsd]

I know everyone's campaigning to shorten the rotation for the playoffs, but I'm gonna zag here a little bit:

Couch outright stated in today's presser that the bench is not gonna get shortened. He also stated there will be times when F-Wagner and Banchero are both off of the court. He was super explicit to those points.

[p0peye]

I will repeat my assessment from the time when we've climbed to 4th/3rd seed a month ago. We are not as good as our record state, we only took advantage of teams being hit by injuries. We win games through effort, we play hard every night and we grind teams with hustle and defense during regular season. Well, in playoffs everyone plays hard. Effort is great, but it can take you only so far. We need talent.

On another topic, I am really glad Paolo and Franz had good first playoff game, turnovers to the side as they are expected. Big question for next season is whether Franz can regain his shot back, or if this is who he actually is with previous two seasons being outliers.

[MagicMatic]

It’s funny that everyone talks about how the “stars should step up”.. yeah no ****. They are all also in their first contract in the league still.

The vets need to not be ass. The guys that were here well before the core need to make sense next to them in terms of making their lives easier. Not harder.

You can’t win a playoff series if all your vets can’t shoot or play defense.

[Audi]

It’s funny that everyone talks about how the “stars should step up”.. yeah no ****. They are all also in their first contract in the league still.

The vets need to not be ass. The guys that were here well before the core need to make sense next to them in terms of making their lives easier. Not harder.

Q: do you view Isaac as a vet? So much missed time makes it hard for me to.

[MagicMatic]

It’s funny that everyone talks about how the “stars should step up”.. yeah no ****. They are all also in their first contract in the league still.

The vets need to not be ass. The guys that were here well before the core need to make sense next to them in terms of making their lives easier. Not harder.

Q: do you view Isaac as a vet? So much missed time makes it hard for me to.

No I don’t personally. We are lucky he has even been on the court.

[bigdogdylan5]

We can talk about the PG position and getting more shooting till the cows come home (I think they should and will) but Paolo Suggs Franz have to level up too. Those three could represent 70% of our cap in two years. Paolo is not efficient enough around the rim. Franz needs to figure out the three point shooting and Suggs has to be more than a spot up shooter on offense. That is where we are putting our money they have the responsibility with that money to carry this team.

We Magic fans need to come to grips that Banchero, F-Wagner, and Suggs will consume 100M a year between them. Add Carter, M-Wagner and Isaac, the Magic will already be over the cap. That means the rest of the roster will need to be LLE guys, and players on rookie deals. There is no "let's go get a Max player" this Summer. Let that fantasy go.

If Orlando is to contend, it is going to solely come from growth from Orlando's big three. That's it. And you nailed the weak points!


..

Yes and if you want a super star you need to trade Franz or Paolo to get that guy back. This crap of trade anything for max contract X but Paolo, Franz, Suggs or Isaac is just not possible. This summer extensions could be a disaster if there are no improvement. It’s not totally our fault as rookie max extensions in the league you’re basically extending players who aren’t worth the money but you are gambling they will get there. Franz is not worth a max right now. Suggs is not worth the 25-30 mil he will get. Paolo is not a current top 20 player in the league. Christ I don’t even know about Isaac as great is he is what do you pay someone with his minutes and injury history. Everyone is going to get mad this offseason when we don’t try to trade for flawed overpaid guard X. The more important decision for me is what are the numbers we extend at. If those are nuts it could put us in a tight spot. My guess is they will try to do a FVV deal. Try to overpay someone or multiple someone’s for two years before Paolo’s extension kicks in.

I do fear that Paolo and Franz will not work together. It’s extremely clunky on offense at best right now. It’s gotta get better and kind of fast or we’re trading Franz for a guard in a couple years.