OT: Why oil prices are so high?

[Jigish]

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Very good question. Ethanol is not the panacea at all. If we solely convert to that, we will see food prices rise around the world. We already are seeing that actually. If we grow corn for energy, then no one will grow wheat or other food sources. Its got to be a combination of things depending on the resource that is abundant in your area. The southwest should be invested in solar, wind in the plains, nuclear power, and other renewable sources like geothermic or saw grass and so on. Its a complicated problem and thus it should be a complicated solution. There isn't one right answer, but rather a plan. And if we invest in the future in green technology, it has its benefits within the economy as well such as jobs. I can go on, but I won't. Its time for us to start paying attention and educating ourselves and voting based on our own priorities. If that is gay marriage, abortion, and other wedge issues, so be it, but there are far more bigger issues of our day.

I agree with the ethonal scam. Who do i mean by we? Tax the oil companies on there profits use that money to invest in hydrogen, better necluear plants, solar, wind, and water...

[Jigish]

the idea i get is most poeple think this stuff is "FAR FAR away", truth is if we invest in it, we will greatly increase the likelyhood of alternatives becoming a stronger reality very very soon. The "far far" away concept and where the money question are all hyped by big oil.

[Shishnizzle]

It may take some time to get this legislation going. There is a court battle going on that will determine enforcement, but if these investors see an end to this process. It could result in a sell off in order to protect their profits. Which would bring the price of a barrel of oil down to the cost associated with supply and demand. Right now we have a surplus of 340 million barrels of oil in reserve (not the strategic oil reserve), so supply is high and demand is down 6% in the U.S. Some people are saying more like 80 dollars a barrel. That would bring oil prices down to about $2 a gallon. I hope this is the case, but I will be watching the price of a barrel of oil and hoping to see the price start to drop.

[flyingvee]

Lets say we do switch to mostly ethanol or even alchohol like they us ein Brazil. Whats going to stop the oil companies from seizing a monopoly on that and charging us $4 a gal for ethanol? You know if demand drops a lot because we use ethanol, the Saudi's will cut back production also to keep the prices high.

[drsd]

For those of interest: convert

[craig01]

This sucks.

[macdalejax]

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I agree with the ethonal scam. Who do i mean by we? Tax the oil companies on there profits use that money to invest in hydrogen, better necluear plants, solar, wind, and water...

That is a great idea but it won't work without inflating prices even more. Taxing them won't get it done because they will simply pass those costs down to us. As spinedoc said, the solution will be complicated because the problem is complicated.

[macdalejax]

I remember reading an article about 5 years ago saying that we could produce gasoline from other sources such as coal and shale for about 40/barrel. I wish i could remember where I read it. Anyone heard anything about this?

[ivDT]

I remember reading an article about 5 years ago saying that we could produce gasoline from other sources such as coal and shale for about 40/barrel. I wish i could remember where I read it. Anyone heard anything about this?

liquefied coal?

i'm not sure if it's the same thing you're talking about, but i've stumbled across a number of articles talking about it since at least the 2004 elections.

environmentalist types are opposed to it because it's supposedly worse than petroleum in terms of the pollution it generates.

[BassMaster]

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liquefied coal?

i'm not sure if it's the same thing you're talking about, but i've stumbled across a number of articles talking about it since at least the 2004 elections.

environmentalist types are opposed to it because it's supposedly worse than petroleum in terms of the pollution it generates.

Actually one of the biggest problems is that it requires a lot of water and the shale oil and huge beds of coal needed to turn into oil are also located in the Mountain States like Utah and Colo and both are water limited. They don't have the kind of water for these processes.
Both states actually supported these proposals since they would also provide jobs.

[Shishnizzle]

Shale is something the U.S has more of than any other country. Actually they say we have enough to cover our energy needs for another 400 years. It is basically the same as oil but just a different form, and it was not cost feasible to turn it into a usable product. With oil prices going through the roof that could change.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/j-thomas- ... 62057.html

"Oil shale is a type of rock that has a petroleum precursor called kerogen trapped inside of it. Using a variety of mechanical and chemical processes, this kergoen can be extracted and upgraded into liquid fuels like synthetic gasoline and synthetic diesel. The United States has the largest oil shale resources in the world. Most of America's oil shale deposits are located in the undeveloped Green River Formation, which straddles Colorado, Wyoming, and Utah. According to the Rand Corporation, as much as 1.1 trillion -- yes, trillion -- barrels of synthetic petroleum could be recovered from the Green River Formation. According to the U.S. Department of Energy, that is four times the size of Saudi Arabia's proved reserves of conventional oil, and approximately equal to all of the proved reserves of conventional oil on earth!

[aleZ]

Yes but one very major difference. In Europe it has always been very high and they also always had both very fuel efficent small cars, plus most countries have great mass transit systems.

Good point, in fact around here most people who drive to work have been using small cars and/or public transit for ages, while your gas-guzzling monsters are really killing you these days. Anyway it's just the market rules, as long as China buys every single drop of oil and the Arabs don't increase their output, the price will keep rising.

[BassMaster]

So here is some more bad news the speculators have now driven up the price of oil to 135 dollars a barrel.

[Shishnizzle]

currently down to $131

http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/commod ... rices.html

[Catledge]

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That is a great idea but it won't work without inflating prices even more. Taxing them won't get it done because they will simply pass those costs down to us. As spinedoc said, the solution will be complicated because the problem is complicated.

I agree that the solution is indeed complicated, but the suggestion that we (by which I mean private individuals) shouldn't expect to pay for our share of an energy revolution is just silly. Yes, taxing a product will cost the consumers, but in this case, that's exactly the point. Raising prices makes it harder for oil to compete, while tax credits for alternatives makes them viable.

I know that this kind of market manipulation makes conservatives break out into hives, but oil is already the most manipulated market in the world (what else do you call using the biggest army in the world to secure our supply of it?). Energy is one of the few things that the market won't fix on its own, which means that the government needs to take an active role in addressing it. (I would add education and racial/ethnic/gender inequities to that short list, but I don't mean to take an OT thread even further OT.)

[Shishnizzle]

The market can fix the problem if prices go high enough to make other opportunities viable. Like expensive battery technology, solar technology, or shale for instance. There are huge advances in battery technology and solar as well. Nanosolar, lithium ion for EREV's, and plasmagasification are alternatives that become viable with high energy prices. These technology's lead to energy independence, and the market would have a huge impact by making these technology's viable through high prices.

[mhectorgato]

How about a "Mr. Fusion Home Energy Reactor"?

[Bensational]

the idea i get is most poeple think this stuff is "FAR FAR away", truth is if we invest in it, we will greatly increase the likelyhood of alternatives becoming a stronger reality very very soon. The "far far" away concept and where the money question are all hyped by big oil.

i imagine they say that while they try to build a monopoly on renewable energy alternatives in the background. i know in Australia BP (you guys have BP in the USA right?) is the biggest investor in solar power.

i'd imagine right now would be a good opportunity for a business minded person to start planting the seeds of a couple of alternative energy companies. get the government in bed with you and your laughing.

[Catledge]

The market can fix the problem if prices go high enough to make other opportunities viable. Like expensive battery technology, solar technology, or shale for instance. There are huge advances in battery technology and solar as well. Nanosolar, lithium ion for EREV's, and plasmagasification are alternatives that become viable with high energy prices. These technology's lead to energy independence, and the market would have a huge impact by making these technology's viable through high prices.

I agree that high oil prices are necessary to make alternatives viable. That's actually my point -- a short-term price fix would actually be counterproductive. Using extra-market resources (blood and bullets) to maintain supply only encourages us to continue to turn a blind eye to the problem of relying on a finite supply of resources that we don't have control of.

As long as people can afford to pay for gas, they will continue to turn their nose up at alternative energy. The longer we continue to turn a blind eye to this reality, the harder it will be on us to finally integrate alternatives into the market. And the argument that the market will handle this naturally ceases to hold water the second we use extra-market resources to manipulate supply.

[BassMaster]

Well bad news here in Upstate NY gas prices are mostly at $4 a galllon or higher. And as of the first of June they will be going up even higher as the State of NY has done it again and raised the tax on gasoline.
Side note for all of you smokers NY is not the place to live. As of June first the tax on cigs goes up $1 more a pack. Yes people the most expensive cigs in the United States. Well actually NYC has had that title and will really go through the roof as of the first to the tune of around 10 dollars a pack.
BTW as a friend of mine has said thank god for Native Americans. More places run by Native Americans in NY then any other state still a carton of Newports is 38 dollars a carton. My friend said that if the res raises prices like the state she is going to quit and this time I believe her.