Denton: C-LEE HANDLES POINT GUARD DUTIES, ROOKIE PRANKS

[TheGlyde]

Ben,

I have no problem with players playing multiple positions, but I don't like to see players play at a position they are clearly weaker at, just to try and plug holes that should have been filled by positional moves, not by sitting on their hands saying 'I like this team'.

If Lee can be transformed, then thats great, my question is why are we trying to transform him? to fill a need? if that's so, then AJ must not be cutting it.

I'm not huge on SG's learning the PG position, SF to PF is one thing, SG to SF, C to PF, but SG to PG is the biggest difference in any positional shift on the basketball court and it rarely works, trying to pick up PG duties if you haven't done them before is a lot to learn, and there are questions on Lee's ballhandling.

I'm not huge on teaching an old dog new tricks, especially PG tricks, running the offense through Hedo is one thing, but running him as the actual PG is another. If Lee can handle the ball handling and we can run the offense through Hedo then okay, but then why do we need AJ? if we are talking about Hedo bringing the ball up then I can see pocketpicking opposing PG's licking their lips as he dribbles up court.

Lastly, I'm not huge on bringing in a player for such a huge contract that it restricts future moves of the team, and then not playing him at the position he has excelled at his entire career.

In isolation, I can swallow things like this, but they seem to keep adding up, IMO it was clear that rebounding and size next to Dwight was a factor in losing to Detroit last year, and that it will be for the future, look at the big frontlines we are going to face out East in the playoffs, Sheed/McDyess/Johnson or Z/Ben Wallace or Perkins/KG or J'Oneal/Bosh or Dalembert/Brown and we just ignored what happened last year and figured Battie will return and make the difference.

[mhectorgato]

If Lee can handle the ball handling and we can run the offense through Hedo then okay, but then why do we need AJ? if we are talking about Hedo bringing the ball up then I can see pocketpicking opposing PG's licking their lips as he dribbles up court.

AJ was brought in the to be backup, I see Lee and Hedo being used at the PG in situational/matchup uses, not full time backup roles. Also AJ is there as insurance if Jameer gets hurt, as he's missed games (without looking at the stats) virtually every season.

In this regard, it will be interesting to see if Wilks makes the reg season roster - assuming he has a clause that we can release him before the season starts.

[Last Guardian]

SVG is just testing different lineups. No need to overanalyze Lee/Turk getting minutes at PG. Coach is just seeing if it works out, and if it does then we have a lineup that could deal with bigger teams like the Pistons. In fact, I bet this experiment is for the Pistons specifically.

[spinedoc]

Well, you notice that they are always talking about his ability to guard the point, not necessary run the team from there. So in all probability what we will see is more of Hedo running the offense with CLee guarding the pg's. That would definitely be a good look imo.

Totally agree, but you have to remember that he's a rookie still. We didn't get him to be this teams eventual starter at the point anyway, but his athleticism and speed is perfect to help backup Jameer on the defensive front. I'd love to see Lee and Hedo both come in off the bench with that thought in mind though. They should be able to complement each other pretty well.

[magicmamma]

If AJ is a legit backup PG (I still see him as a good 3rd stringer), then either he or Jameer would be on court at all times, so why the need for Lee/Turk spot minutes, unless AJ just isn't getting it done.

Jameer played 69 games last year and reduced minutes in some of those. Do you expect AJ to play 48 minutes when Jameer is down? You either need a third string pg on the bench or have some other players that can handle the position in emergencies.

[Force9024]

Anthony Johnson is a legit 2nd string point guard, he's got the veteran mentality, the good court vision, and a decent shot. Lee is going to be just fine, like was said, he's not brought in to be the eventual starter at the point. Eventually he could become the starting 2 guard, but I don't see that for the next couple years. He's going to be the solid bench guy we need when we're struggling with the starters out. Him and Hedo are gonna be great together especially if Pietrus is playing with them..

[TheGlyde]

If AJ is a legit backup PG (I still see him as a good 3rd stringer), then either he or Jameer would be on court at all times, so why the need for Lee/Turk spot minutes, unless AJ just isn't getting it done.

Jameer played 69 games last year and reduced minutes in some of those. Do you expect AJ to play 48 minutes when Jameer is down? You either need a third string pg on the bench or have some other players that can handle the position in emergencies.

This is exactly my point, except for the 'either'.

I entered this thread saying that these experiments basically meant Wilks was toast, and, what I am saying is, I don't agree with going with the second part of your 'either', I say go get a capable 3rd stringer instead of playing players at positions they are less effective.

[spinedoc]

Shouldn't we view Lee at pg as more of a situational argument, rather than a guaranteed slot or minutes one? I would imagine that he would get time there when we have a lead or when we go against quicker, scoring pg's. And when Jameer struggles to generate offense, or we are trailing, then AJ would get more minutes there. It also frees up more minutes for Hedo at the two behind MP. This way we don't have to play Hedo at sf for him to get his minutes, and thus push Shard to the four as much. I've said before that I would like to see Shard move to the pf spot only when it favors us, against backup pf's and not decent starters there. Rebounding has been one of our downfalls, and it hurts us more than it helps with Shard playing big minutes there. This gives us more flexibility with our lineups with Lee capable of logging minutes at the point. I don't see it as trying to transform him to a position that he isn't suited for. Plus, he played some point in college. Its not that big of a stretch in the first place. Once I saw that we weren't really that serious about getting a great backup pg, I knew that they had designs on Lee playing there. It shouldn't be that big of a surprise.

[mhectorgato]

Shouldn't we view Lee at pg as more of a situational argument, rather than a guaranteed slot or minutes one? I would imagine that he would get time there when we have a lead or when we go against quicker, scoring pg's. And when Jameer struggles to generate offense, or we are trailing, then AJ would get more minutes there. It also frees up more minutes for Hedo at the two behind MP. This way we don't have to play Hedo at sf for him to get his minutes, and thus push Shard to the four as much. I've said before that I would like to see Shard move to the pf spot only when it favors us, against backup pf's and not decent starters there. Rebounding has been one of our downfalls, and it hurts us more than it helps with Shard playing big minutes there. This gives us more flexibility with our lineups with Lee capable of logging minutes at the point. I don't see it as trying to transform him to a position that he isn't suited for. Plus, he played some point in college. Its not that big of a stretch in the first place. Once I saw that we weren't really that serious about getting a great backup pg, I knew that they had designs on Lee playing there. It shouldn't be that big of a surprise.

Not sure how Lee running the point will change this. Seems to me, most of Shard's time would be spent at the 4, regardless of who is playing the point. imo, having Battie back would give Lewis more of a chance slide down.

Why is it OK for Hedo to play out of position (at the 2), but not Lewis? Lewis gets out bodied at the 4. Hedo would be too slow at the 2.

[craig01]

I think that the experimental use of Lee/Hedo/AJ is just a way of probing at this point.

Depth is an issue, and the weaknesses in depth have transferred from the front court to the back court.

I agree with Glyde that it would have been nice had the deficiencies been addressed better than they were. I also agree that shifting two or more players out of position may cause more problems than the shifts would help.

[mhectorgato]

Does anyone know if Wilks has a guaranteed regular season contract? Or is there a "if on roster after such and such date then he's guaranteed" clause in there?

[spinedoc]

Not sure how Lee running the point will change this. Seems to me, most of Shard's time would be spent at the 4, regardless of who is playing the point. imo, having Battie back would give Lewis more of a chance slide down.

Why is it OK for Hedo to play out of position (at the 2), but not Lewis? Lewis gets out bodied at the 4. Hedo would be too slow at the 2.[/quote]

I'm fine with Lewis playing out of position at the 4 given the scenario. I want him there playing against less apt backup pf's though and not starting there. The problem is that because of Hedo's presence, Shard would have to play more pf then I am comfortable with, unless we explore other lineups. I was just suggesting that Hedo can run some backup sg if Lee is playing some point. The opportunity is there for minutes, but it would have to be contingent on the other teams lineup too. No, I don't want Hedo going against the Kobe's of the league, but he can hold his own with others in limited minutes. Ideally I would like Lee and Hedo coming off the bench together, whether Lee is playing the point or sg, or that Hedo is playing sf or sg, but that doesn't look like its going to happen. I just do not want to see that huge investment we made with Shard, starting out of position again. Its a waste imo.

[Bensational]

Not sure how Lee running the point will change this. Seems to me, most of Shard's time would be spent at the 4, regardless of who is playing the point. imo, having Battie back would give Lewis more of a chance slide down.

Why is it OK for Hedo to play out of position (at the 2), but not Lewis? Lewis gets out bodied at the 4. Hedo would be too slow at the 2.

I'm fine with Lewis playing out of position at the 4 given the scenario. I want him there playing against less apt backup pf's though and not starting there. The problem is that because of Hedo's presence, Shard would have to play more pf then I am comfortable with, unless we explore other lineups. I was just suggesting that Hedo can run some backup sg if Lee is playing some point. The opportunity is there for minutes, but it would have to be contingent on the other teams lineup too. No, I don't want Hedo going against the Kobe's of the league, but he can hold his own with others in limited minutes. Ideally I would like Lee and Hedo coming off the bench together, whether Lee is playing the point or sg, or that Hedo is playing sf or sg, but that doesn't look like its going to happen. I just do not want to see that huge investment we made with Shard, starting out of position again. Its a waste imo.[/quote]

i think Shard playing out of position should help us, if used properly. say with the 76ers, Brand and Dalembert are both too slow to guard him out on the perimeter, but they'll have to try, which means Dwight should be left one on one with the other big. otherwise, there will be 1 man open out on the perimeter who will get an open shot, and out of Lewis, Hedo & Jameer (not sure about MP yet) i feel pretty confident we can make that shot.

we DO need a better backup PF though, to replace Battie. but ultimately, i think, what's the point of starting a younger Battie style PF, just so we can replicate the lineups of Detroit, Boston, 76ers, etc?? unless we can put an even better PF next to Dwight than these other teams have, we're essentially just playing their game, and so far that's a game they've all proven to be better at.

[spinedoc]

I see your point Ben, but the problem is we get killed on the boards. If we can limit second chance points for a team, its like making a shot ourselves. We need shot blocking/altered shots, and rebounding. Dwight needs some help, and it hasn't been Shard when he's out on the perimeter. Our chief investments, like it or not, are Dwight and Shard. It needs to be centered around that first and foremost. It gives us advantages with this lineup, but we had to rely on it way too much last season at the same time. Hey, we'll still be a very good team this way, just not a dominant team.

[sChOlaRlY_Magi]

Ben,

I have no problem with players playing multiple positions, but I don't like to see players play at a position they are clearly weaker at, just to try and plug holes that should have been filled by positional moves, not by sitting on their hands saying 'I like this team'.

If Lee can be transformed, then thats great, my question is why are we trying to transform him? to fill a need? if that's so, then AJ must not be cutting it.

I'm not huge on SG's learning the PG position, SF to PF is one thing, SG to SF, C to PF, but SG to PG is the biggest difference in any positional shift on the basketball court and it rarely works, trying to pick up PG duties if you haven't done them before is a lot to learn, and there are questions on Lee's ballhandling.

I'm not huge on teaching an old dog new tricks, especially PG tricks, running the offense through Hedo is one thing, but running him as the actual PG is another. If Lee can handle the ball handling and we can run the offense through Hedo then okay, but then why do we need AJ? if we are talking about Hedo bringing the ball up then I can see pocketpicking opposing PG's licking their lips as he dribbles up court.

Lastly, I'm not huge on bringing in a player for such a huge contract that it restricts future moves of the team, and then not playing him at the position he has excelled at his entire career.

In isolation, I can swallow things like this, but they seem to keep adding up, IMO it was clear that rebounding and size next to Dwight was a factor in losing to Detroit last year, and that it will be for the future, look at the big frontlines we are going to face out East in the playoffs, Sheed/McDyess/Johnson or Z/Ben Wallace or Perkins/KG or J'Oneal/Bosh or Dalembert/Brown and we just ignored what happened last year and figured Battie will return and make the difference.

Just started perusing this thread and I have to say... Great post Glyde! While I can see the benefits of versatility having Shard at the 4, in the playoffs we better have a better plan than we did last year...

[magicmamma]

In his media day interview, Shard said that he had adjusted to playing the 4 and liked it. It's my impression that our forwards get most of their rebounds when Dwight is off the floor. They don't go after them when Dwight is there because they want to live. He's warned them not to try for one of his rebounds, and if you have to check on Dwight before you go for a rebound, you aren't going to get many. Recall the one time LeBron went after Dwight's rebound on team USA, LeBron got the ball, but Dwight hit him in mid air, he went flying, and hit the floor so hard he lost the ball. He glowered at Dwight and hasn't tried that again.

[TheRevTy]

Remember when Hedo was 1 rebound away from a triple double and Dwight wasn't letting him get it? Can you imagine having so much skill that you can just toy with people like that?

[TheGlyde]

In his media day interview, Shard said that he had adjusted to playing the 4 and liked it. It's my impression that our forwards get most of their rebounds when Dwight is off the floor. They don't go after them when Dwight is there because they want to live. He's warned them not to try for one of his rebounds, and if you have to check on Dwight before you go for a rebound, you aren't going to get many. Recall the one time LeBron went after Dwight's rebound on team USA, LeBron got the ball, but Dwight hit him in mid air, he went flying, and hit the floor so hard he lost the ball. He glowered at Dwight and hasn't tried that again.

This is again kind of what I am saying... if our forwards are too soft to even get in there and rebound with Dwight then we need tougher forwards...

This is why I want a PF that can take the hits inside, both from opponents and from Dwight, Hedo and Shard can't, and thats why they aren't strong enough on the boards, its a warzone inside and we need someone to challenge Dwight and pick up double figure rebounds on nights he is moping around/disinterested due to lack of shots.

If Dwight thinks he is going to outrebound the other team by himself every night then this is another thing he needs to mature on.

He needs to realise he needs help on the boards, Shaq needed Horace Grant, he needed Udonis Haslem... We had the leagues leading rebounder last year, but ranked in the bottom half of the league in rebound differential. Boston, Detroit, Cleveland, Philly and Atlanta were all top 10 in the league in that stat.

I think its great that he wants every rebound, I would love to see him average high teens, but he is still going to need help on the boards, especially in the playoffs.

[magicmamma]

There seems to be less to worry about now, since Dwight has decided he's going for blocks and is letting the other guys get the rebounds. Both Adonal and Tony outrebounded Dwight on a per minute basis. Dwight was at least making an attempt to get rebounds tonight. In the previous game he appeared to just ignore them. SVG politely indicated in his post-game interview that blocks were fine, but Dwight was going to have to pick up his rebounding effort.