Van Gundy Tired of Nelson

fendilim · Post #61 » by **fendilim** » Sun Nov 2, 2008 3:20 am

mhectorgato wrote:So how do we get an upgrade?

Why would another team trade a "better" PG for Jameer?

JJ Jameer for Miller? hihih I think Rodriguez could make a run against Jameer but he is a big risk.

J-Mezzy · Post #62 » by **J-Mezzy** » Sun Nov 2, 2008 8:10 am

Wow, some of you guys are amazing.

I never compared Nelson to Calderon. All I said is that they are in the same group of middle of the pack point guards.

I mentioned Kidd on the same group as Paul....how come you guys are not killing me for that? That's because I never compared them.

Also:

Paul
Kidd
Parker
Williams
Iverson
Miller
Harris
Davis
Nash
Billups
Arenas(when healthy)

Are the elite point guards in the game. Calderon doesn't belong with them. Calderon is in the middle of the pack group

By the way, you guys act as if Calderon was Magic. Yes he is a better distributor and handler than Nelson, but he is the same type of player. He is an offensive minded point guard that is not a good rebounder or defender. He is better than Nelson, but he is in the same group.

By the way, Nelson did outplay Calderon in the playoffs.

Again, so easy to say we need to replace Nelson. You got guys out there like Rondo, Udrich, Chalmers, Alston, Tinsley, Ford. Foye and other starting. Not saying Nelson is better than all of these guys, but there iis not much of a gap...so obviously it is not very easy to find a "starting caliber" point guard.
Most teams in the NBA have mediocre point guards and centers. That is just the league today. Get over it. There is not much we can do to upgrade unless we get extremely lucky or take a big risk on a head case.

Post #63 » by **MagicMadness** » Sun Nov 2, 2008 8:24 am

Well, Calderon did have 25pts/9ast tonight.

But he did have 6 turnovers.

I'd say Calderon is right outside of elite status, personally. He *might* be an all-star this year.

Raptors90102 · Post #64 » by **Raptors90102** » Sun Nov 2, 2008 8:50 am

J-Mezzy wrote:Wow, some of you guys are amazing.

I never compared Nelson to Calderon. All I said is that they are in the same group of middle of the pack point guards.

I mentioned Kidd on the same group as Paul....how come you guys are not killing me for that? That's because I never compared them.

Also:

Paul
Kidd
Parker
Williams
Iverson
Miller
Harris
Davis
Nash
Billups
Arenas(when healthy)

Are the elite point guards in the game. Calderon doesn't belong with them. Calderon is in the middle of the pack group

By the way, you guys act as if Calderon was Magic. Yes he is a better distributor and handler than Nelson, but he is the same type of player. He is an offensive minded point guard that is not a good rebounder or defender. He is better than Nelson, but he is in the same group.

By the way, Nelson did outplay Calderon in the playoffs.

Again, so easy to say we need to replace Nelson. You got guys out there like Rondo, Udrich, Chalmers, Alston, Tinsley, Ford. Foye and other starting. Not saying Nelson is better than all of these guys, but there iis not much of a gap...so obviously it is not very easy to find a "starting caliber" point guard.
Most teams in the NBA have mediocre point guards and centers. That is just the league today. Get over it. There is not much we can do to upgrade unless we get extremely lucky or take a big risk on a head case.

Don't consider this a biased opinion from a raptor fan, but if Harris is an elite point guard, than Calderon surely belongs there.. Besides his defense, there isn't any other area of the game where Harris is better than Jose.. If you feel Jose and Nelson are middle of the pack PG's, thats fine and dandy with me.. but c'on, Harris an elite PG?

Neon1 · Post #65 » by **Neon1** » Sun Nov 2, 2008 9:10 am

Yeah Harris shouldnt be sniffing that list. If theres anybody on that list that should be considered in Nelson's class/group it Harris.

J-Mezzy · Post #66 » by **J-Mezzy** » Sun Nov 2, 2008 9:15 am

True. I guess I added Harris because of his defense. It is superior to Calderon's, but I'll give you that. Harris is a decent point guard, better than Nelson due to size and athletism IMO

doraem0n · Post #67 » by **doraem0n** » Sun Nov 2, 2008 1:37 pm

Finally I have some common understanding with the coach. Only the time can prove I am right.

glennathan · Post #68 » by **glennathan** » Sun Nov 2, 2008 4:34 pm

INCUBUS* wrote:
mhectorgato wrote:So how do we get an upgrade?

Why would another team trade a "better" PG for Jameer?

JJ Jameer for Miller? hihih I think Rodriguez could make a run against Jameer but he is a big risk.

If this was to happen we would all be very excited and that would boost us up a few levels. Even though Andre Miller is getting older he can still dish it out and still bring the intensity. I like Jameer as a PG but I agree he is an excellent 6th man player. I was looking at the stats for his career in Orlando and I just don't like the fact that our starting PG has never hit over 400 assists in a season. I see most backup PG's getting that amount but we gotta use what we have to the best of our abilities.

Nemesis21 · Post #69 » by **Nemesis21** » Sun Nov 2, 2008 5:11 pm

I have to say Nelson is not the PG for this team.

MitchellUK · Post #70 » by **MitchellUK** » Mon Nov 3, 2008 12:51 am

glennathan wrote:
INCUBUS* wrote:
mhectorgato wrote:So how do we get an upgrade?

Why would another team trade a "better" PG for Jameer?

JJ Jameer for Miller? hihih I think Rodriguez could make a run against Jameer but he is a big risk.

I was looking at the stats for his career in Orlando and I just don't like the fact that our starting PG has never hit over 400 assists in a season. I see most backup PG's getting that amount but we gotta use what we have to the best of our abilities.

Only 20 players in the league, total, hit 400 assists last season. They included Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Joe Johnson, Brandon Roy, and Hedo Turkoglu - which means that only 15 point guards reached that total. Meer ranked 28th in the NBA in total assists last year, and 26th in assists per game. Not great, but when you consider we have another guy who was also top 35 in assists and apg, not that bad either.

Post #71 » by **eyriq** » Mon Nov 3, 2008 12:55 am

Nelson is fine. He is better than Heinrich so I don't see the point in exploring that option. What he can do he does very well, it's just a matter of him doing it. He'll break out this year, it's only been 3 freakin games people!

Driguez · Post #72 » by **Driguez** » Mon Nov 3, 2008 12:59 am

eyriq wrote:He'll break out this year, it's only been 3 freakin SEASONS people!

Fixed.

Post #73 » by **eyriq** » Mon Nov 3, 2008 1:16 am

Driguez wrote:
eyriq wrote:He'll break out this year, it's only been 3 freakin SEASONS people!

Fixed.

I saw that and I died laughing. At first I thought I had miss typed...

Post #74 » by **Bensational** » Mon Nov 3, 2008 4:22 am

double....

Post #75 » by **Bensational** » Mon Nov 3, 2008 4:24 am

MitchellUK wrote:[

i'm really liking your posts. you've got an awesome knack for bringing facts at the perfect time. Glyde used to be the man for that, but he's taken a back seat lately.

DiplomaticMagic · Post #76 » by **DiplomaticMagic** » Mon Nov 3, 2008 4:24 am

The Jameer hate on this board, makes me like Jameer even more.

Post #77 » by **Bensational** » Mon Nov 3, 2008 4:28 am

Marcus Williams looks to be on the out in Golden State. maybe....

Williams + Hendrix

for

JJ + Cook + future 1st / rights to Fran?

(i'm still not sold on the status of Cook's contract...)

but that said, doesn't do much for them except give them another hired gun on the 3pt line in JJ. i'm sure he'd flourish there though.

mhectorgato · Post #78 » by **mhectorgato** » Mon Nov 3, 2008 2:42 pm

MitchellUK wrote:Only 20 players in the league, total, hit 400 assists last season. They included Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Joe Johnson, Brandon Roy, and Hedo Turkoglu - which means that only 15 point guards reached that total. Meer ranked 28th in the NBA in total assists last year, and 26th in assists per game. Not great, but when you consider we have another guy who was also top 35 in assists and apg, not that bad either.

On the LeBrons and Bryants ... did the PG get 400 assists?

Here's your answer:
Fisher started 82 games - 239
West (26 games for 116), Hughes (40 games for 94) and Gibson (60 games for 69) - 279

How did those teams do?

Well yes we don't have a true take over the game superstar atm, but just like those teams, we don't have a prototypical offense. We all talk about how we like our balance - with that balance comes less individual assist numbers for our PG.

(good research MitchelllUK! - hope you don't mind me piggybacking on the point.)

Just Plain Mark · Post #79 » by **Just Plain Mark** » Mon Nov 3, 2008 3:15 pm

My problem with Jameer isn't assist numbers (good call by those who quantified the issue), but rather his defensive struggles, his struggles to inititate the offense (even when Hedo is going to be the playmaker, and his shooting issues.

If Jameer only made 2 assists per game, but made the right pass 90% of the time, played good D, and took advantage of scoring opportunities, I'd be happy. But he's just not a consistent 3 point threat, a consistent midrange threat or a even a good finisher around the basket.

TheRevTy · Post #80 » by **TheRevTy** » Mon Nov 3, 2008 3:24 pm

I like Jameer a lot, he is probably one of my favorite players in the league, but I am beginning to think he would excel in a 6th man role, where he isn't asked to defer to 20 ppg scorers. His problem right now is that he is thinking too much and trying too hard to get everyone involved.

I'd love to get Hinrich, but I don't think we have what the Bulls are looking for.