Stan Van Gundy can develop bad players

[Hon-essim]

I think there are few coaches in this league that can make a young Wade and Lee play like veterans.

With Wade, it was impressive because here he took a budding star that was being overlooked amidst the Lebron hype and while Wade certainly has the skills and the mentality, I think had he not gone through Stan Van Gundy, he would have achieved Finalists props instead of being a champion that early in his career.

Sure Pat Riley coached that team but I think if you look past just the average athleticism and skill improvements that most great coaches improve in their players, Wade was far ahead in his capacity to both lift his team as a leader this season and carry his team over the hump in the Finals than Kobe, Lebron, Carter and T-mac ever were with only probably Duncan and Chris Paul as being instant stars that actually became even better under their coaches coming into the league. (and even Paul has his spurts of being unable to handle the pressure of not being a scoring superstar rather than a passing one this season and Tim was just a little bit too ready for the NBA to say he improved.)

Of course that alone is not saying much considering Wade is still a superstar and Stan is having the same problem with Dwight that Byron Scott is having with Paul minus the good relationship. (The guy has improved but you can tell he still doesn't trust his teammates when the play gets broken, still puts himself in situations where he gets stripped and still tries to force his way on defenders rather than look to assert himself and still doesn't seem to quite respect the pressure and insight Van Gundy has when he knows even when the team is leading in regular season games that they are still in the mindset of blowing leads which has cost them time and time again in the playoffs in the 1st round against the 76ers, some points against the Celtics and mostly against the Lakers this Finals. While all that isn't Stan's fault and in fact part of the Magic's toughness is Stan's ability to adjust, when your team makes fun of you and disses your mistakes rather than understands you, that is still a major flaw that keeps him from really lifting himself as a top coach.)

However with Lee, Stan has shown that he isn't just a coach that makes Stars play better with the team or Stars develop better than they should. Lee's mindset is mostly him however what Stan did still cannot be denied as being similar to what Avery did to Devin and Larry Brown did to Chauncey where he puts determined players in great situations where they can learn and develop themselves from the court rather than out of it. Case in point with the way Stan wrote the last play for Lee against the Lakers before overtime. Hit or miss, Lee was the type of player who would most likely learn from that rather than beat himself too much over the miss or overrate his ability as a player over a made shot and still it was a risky play that is only appreciate when you can respect how Brown kept Chauncey's bad points from ruining the Piston's chances at a championship while keeping his great points to the point that when Flip replaced Brown, Chauncey seemed like an even better player that strangely couldn't lift his team past the East Finals despite having an even better Pistons team playing against arguably the most perfect time for them to win when the Shaq-Kobe duo disbanded (which they beat.)

Now if that weren't enough, Jameer's development as a player before his injury is on the level of what Sloan did with Deron and arguably at an even shorter and less ideal time where the Magic had Howard. Turkoglu's transition from being a bigger and better JJ Reddick of the league to the same role Brandon Roy does on Portland ignores the fact that Orlando is a team that was being developed as a more up-tempo 3pt shooting team rather than a slow Half-Court system like Nate's. Alston a guy that would have screwed up most other teams if he were to replace Nelson took the Magics to the Finals before he stunk it up and even in his bad nights, the Alston of the Magics could arguably said to shoot this team less than he did on the Rockets. It just seems like he magically gained the killer instincts to drive (gets blocked but at least he does in times when the Magic are often in a cold streak) and to pass to the point that some are even calling him a pass first pg.

This while ignoring the fact that even at Stan's worst criticized mistakes, he puts players in spots where they can shine rather than puts pressure on his role players to step up to where they lift their stars and finish the game. This can seem like a double edged sword but I generally think it is the same flaw which allows his players to develop in ways where they can over-achieve.

Just some of the notable examples in the Finals are:

1) Nelson over-playing in the 2nd quarter - As heavily criticized as it was, it not only showed how Nelson can impact team reaction and showed Alston's still bitter side with the team but it also was done at a point where the Magic had an absolute cold stretch and needed a motivation boost and with the way Nelson played early in the half, it really hid his mistakes until the hindsight of the game where it was overblown by Rafer. As much as the latter half Nelson was criticized for his decisions and shooting touch, early half Nelson played and gave the same impact as Arenas coming off the injury in the few of the Wizard's last seasonal games. His assists were automatic and his bad defense was on par with the rest of the team that night.

2) Reddick in GM 2 - As much as Reddick shot and gave the game away in Overtime, he still tied the game late for them and was really looking like one of the better evidences of how Van Gundy brought this 3pt team in the finals which was his desire to drive and dish and give open looks. Sure as JVG said, he wasn't looking to score but that is just one of the things you can't X and O (to paraphrase Van Gundy) At best, Van Gundy could have brought in Lee but really it wouldn't change the fact that in GM 1, Lee got outplayed and if he got burned, Van Gundy would have been just as to blame and some might even point out Reddick's defense in GM 1 and prior to the overtime period.

3) Dwight - Again, despite Dwight's comments against Stan and how many times the media likes to call him a beast and how many times his criticism was just "lack of post moves", can you remember when the last time the star of a game played this badly and the team reached the Finals? I'm not saying it's scrub bad but Dwight is playing superstar bad right now and his hook shots in the playoffs is on par with Kobe airballing 3s and Dwight is actually the superstar and not the side kick on this team. Add the fact that he is really being contained and not just made to have difficult shots in the playoffs, he is similar to many under-achieving superstars that disappears or lower their efficiency rather than step up and really Dwight becomes more of a piece to make the team play better than a superstar who lifts his team except for the rare 1-2 games like how they closed out Cleveland in Orlando.

This is why I think that while it may be tempting to focus on above average veterans and prospects, unless there's an immediate superstar opportunity, Orlando should look at the underrated hated players and see who they can get for cheap while people aren't still respecting Stan's capability to improve players that much:

Kwame Brown - One thing that is overlooked by people who see scrub Kwame was that in the one team where he was actually being handed the ball at the post alot, he was good enough to be a decent scorer and his small hands critic never started until he played for the Lakers in a team that wouldn't run the rotation through him so when he wasn't being handed the odd angled pass (similar to how Gasol often gets his passes), he was being given the ball on a dead play and this really didn't help his game much when he was expected to bail them out considering the fact that it seems LA never tried developing him at all or at least never tried giving him a chance to gain some confidence and when you're a big who doesn't have the natural instinct of being a back down power dunker and not much of a 1st option to begin with in your last team, there's really no way for him to excel but arguably Kwame because of the triangle also probably showed his improving pass game the most when he was in LA (He wasn't catching passes but he was still making passes that Dwight was turning over last season plus the small hands argument goes in the face of a PF who's able to make the occassional clutch steal especially for a big man who's not expected to be even a 1st defensive option at the post)

This is where Stan's credentials can really be tested. As much as many hate him for doing it, if you look at what Stan does to the Magic and the Heat, he gives bad players good positioning to shine. How many times have you seen Battie, Alston and Reddick brick shots and make you think, man...why did Stan go to him but if they made those shots, you would say how good Stan was at giving them such open looks.

Now assuming Stan doesn't develop Kwame at all, he's just a lazy man's Gortat with poor range. However if Kwame develops just a slight bit and combined with Stan's ability to give his guys good positions to score, Kwame might just develop into a Rashard/Gortat combo with Howard's rebounding minus the range. (and even that is arguable)

This might seem an over-statement of how much Stan can improve a scrub but Kwame actually has an underrated first step that is much better than Rashard's where he is lacking is both the confidence and the desire to finish strong. (If you watch the few times he played for Detroit, you can clearly see he loves the ...and 1 off a close range shot and has an underrated manner of getting it which is only hidden by his streaky free throws which might actually come close to Howard's percentage if he gets as much touches on the FT line.) Also while Gortat is mobile enough to defend SFs like Odom, Kwame has shown in bits the ability to defend guards where it only looks bad because often times his lack of confidence to pursue the driving defender gives them room to hit a borderline mid range shot in his face and his poor ability to find where he should position himself as a defensive anchor which causes him to let his assignment off and giving his opponent the easy score not helping his confidence in going after the guards. (However he has an underrated ability of knowing where the ball is and what the defender plans to do which is what causes him to get clutch steals many times when the pace doesn't slow down for adjustments against his decision to leave another man open)

Let's not forget that for the first time in his career if he joins the Magics, he not only has veteran players that are less ballhogs but a Dwight Howard and a Patrick Ewing to learn from and this is only compounded by the fact that for the first time, he has an opportunity to play the same role as Gortat and Lewis rather than being placed with the burden of being the Dwight Howard of his team. (which he has improved on but is and was never really his game despite his deceptive athleticism and size)

Steve Blake - Portland fans hates the guy right now so even if he comes back to Portland, I doubt if he was to be traded, they would argue much against it and even if Blake isn't Alston, for his role, he is still considered even by Portland to be one of the better backup pgs so he is really one of the few players to consistently improve in leaps and bounds for his level but time and time again gets overlooked.

Assuming he stays the same player he was in Portland, Blake is still a much consistent shooter and a not so bad defensive liability compared to Alston. However this is all assuming he is going to be the same player and besides that one year as a Buck, Blake has improved beyond what is expected of him even if you had high expectations for him.

One thing Blake haters fail to often state is that Blake started out as barely cutting it as a 3rd option pg for a team and yet one 3pt shooting improvement in Denver later and he was being "hated" as a backup pg and yet again this season with Portland, he is being "hated" as a player that isn't as good enough as the likes of Andre Miller, Kirk Heinrich, Ben Gordon, etc.

This while he wasn't even being billed as a good pg at the start of the season by haters much less ready for the mantle of making a game winner in that Houston game but this is just a testament to how Blake is. As much as people cry he is the most un-clutch player for his slow play and passes, costly turnovers and missing game winners and disappearing at times, Blake has actually been playing better than Sasha, Farmar, Fisher combined and arguably his one major weakness over Alston, his driving speed is offset by his ability to understand the driving game better. This is a guy that's capable of breaking his defender's ankles even if he does it by attempting a jump shot and when Portland goes on a cold streak, Blake is often the most clutch at getting them back to the game with timely drives and timely shots.

Now imagine if Stan can improve this player and you have a guy that can potentially be better than Rafer ever was in his most consistent form with the Magics and that's the scary part. For all his mistakes and reputation as a journeyman, Blake has often possessed the ability to improve himself and his team despite being far focused in being developed as a player or in this year with Portland, as a young pseudo-veteran pg that helps talk things through with Brandon so if SVG does improve Blake just a tiny bit, he'd still be just the same guy that can take over games and let's not forget, he's not only playing as a backup pg (a position even haters admit he is suited for) but he has Anthony Johnson to defer back to where in the past you really couldn't say he was given an environment to improve much less excel.

Darko Milicic - What more can be said? Orlando fans know his play. While it can be said that at the time, not only was Darko getting limited minutes, he wasn't really in a position where you felt he can improve this team but I think even if you couldn't make an immediate move on him without looking bad, he should be on the list of players to get if this team stays with SVG (no thinking what would happen due to the post-Finals backlash SVG is going to get especially with Dwight and Rafer on him). The fact is it's not just on his defensive play, the guy has Patrick Ewing's desire to shoot mid-range and Andrei Kirilenko's desire to chase off help defense in the SF position and the fact that he is even still an above average defender is testament to how talented he is but like many of today's big men who doesn't have the instincts of a PF or C, he gets overlooked. (Dirk is the only one to gain the respect of being a shooting PF and Gasol is the only shooting PF to really have learned and embraced the ways of a back down PF)

However I think the biggest insane thing SVG did is how many project players he made look like veterans and break-out stars if your standards is high:

Turkoglu was arguably a project player with the way SVG played him both offensively and defensively

Nelson was who in the list of top pg players before suddenly budding into a borderline superstar under SVG

Dwight was also at best a project superstar becoming a legit break-out superstar under SVG

Even Rashard was obviously having problems with his position adjustment and while not as big an improvement, the guy is now a clutch player and that's very hard to improve from just one or two season.

Lee is the no brainer

Alston only looked like he fitted as well to the Magics as Gasol to LA because of the quick adjustments they made

Even while he was with the Heat, SVG left on a dangerous note (where Miami was a legitimate threat to the Pistons) and the next year they became a champions ready team where the role players that played with SVG a season prior not really disappearing with the veteran former superstars. (When the way Riley was playing the Heat obviously forcing the role players to consistently perform at limited minutes as opposed to the more relaxed minutes Stan decided to play his players)

Note: This post was written by a Stan Van Gundy, Darko Milicic, Kwame Brown and Steve Blake bandwagon homer so don't waste comment space by stating the obvious.

[eyriq]

I like this post A LOT. My favorite team in the MLB are the St. Louis Cardinals. This team employs one of the greatest managers in the league, but more importantly to this discussion is that they employ one of the greatest pitching coaches in the league; Dave Duncan. You are saying that Stan has the Duncanesque quality of coaching the cast offs or the up and comers to reach their full potential much quicker as well as get more out of them than otherwise they'd give. I think you are spot on. I also like the players you listed, and think that any of them would fill out a very good bench for Orlando. Stan's ability to coach out the great in every player should be something that we consider when we talk about offseason moves.

Again, great post. Please don't be shy!

[Cigamodnalro]

I like this post A LOT. My favorite team in the MLB are the St. Louis Cardinals. This team employs one of the greatest managers in the league, but more importantly to this discussion is that they employ one of the greatest pitching coaches in the league; Dave Duncan. You are saying that Stan has the Duncanesque quality of coaching the cast offs or the up and comers to reach their full potential much quicker as well as get more out of them than otherwise they'd give. I think you are spot on. I also like the players you listed, and think that any of them would fill out a very good bench for Orlando. Stan's ability to coach out the great in every player should be something that we consider when we talk about offseason moves.

Again, great post. Please don't be shy!

+1. I'm a huge Cardinals fan. As big of a Cards fan as I am a Magic fan, for sure.

Dave Duncan doesn't get nearly enough credit.

[eyriq]

I like this post A LOT. My favorite team in the MLB are the St. Louis Cardinals. This team employs one of the greatest managers in the league, but more importantly to this discussion is that they employ one of the greatest pitching coaches in the league; Dave Duncan. You are saying that Stan has the Duncanesque quality of coaching the cast offs or the up and comers to reach their full potential much quicker as well as get more out of them than otherwise they'd give. I think you are spot on. I also like the players you listed, and think that any of them would fill out a very good bench for Orlando. Stan's ability to coach out the great in every player should be something that we consider when we talk about offseason moves.

Again, great post. Please don't be shy!

+1. I'm a huge Cardinals fan. As big of a Cards fan as I am a Magic fan, for sure.

Dave Duncan doesn't get nearly enough credit.

Well, I knew I always liked you, and now I know why! Also, what the hell is up with getting swept by the Rockies? Ugh, can we please just pull away from the Cubbies while they are ailing? lol.

[Cigamodnalro]

I like this post A LOT. My favorite team in the MLB are the St. Louis Cardinals. This team employs one of the greatest managers in the league, but more importantly to this discussion is that they employ one of the greatest pitching coaches in the league; Dave Duncan. You are saying that Stan has the Duncanesque quality of coaching the cast offs or the up and comers to reach their full potential much quicker as well as get more out of them than otherwise they'd give. I think you are spot on. I also like the players you listed, and think that any of them would fill out a very good bench for Orlando. Stan's ability to coach out the great in every player should be something that we consider when we talk about offseason moves.

Again, great post. Please don't be shy!

+1. I'm a huge Cardinals fan. As big of a Cards fan as I am a Magic fan, for sure.

Dave Duncan doesn't get nearly enough credit.

Well, I knew I always liked you, and now I know why! Also, what the hell is up with getting swept by the Rockies? Ugh, can we please just pull away from the Cubbies while they are ailing? lol.

Seriously. They weren't even close games. Over the past few years, the problem's been our pitching staff. Now both our pitching and our hitting are suffering. TLR is pushing for a rental of Matt Holliday for the rest of the year. I'd probably back it, even if it means trading Ankiel.

[p0peye]

Good post.

I agree that Stan is one of the handful of NBA coaches that can get the best of the players he has been given to work with.

On the other hand, players you've singled out aren't exactly the ones I'd welcomed to the Magic roster, reason being that I find Kwame hopeless and Darko in some Euro team as of next year.

You've forgot about one thing that sticks out: all mentioned players that Stan may or may not have helped to blossom were young prospects. These guys, asside from Darko who still is a relativelly young at age, sadly are not and I would question not Stan's ability to emphasize strengths but possibility that no noticeable improvements are achievable.

Now, if we speak about some youngsters that are underachieving and teams are willing to let go - Josh McRoberts or Cedric SImmons, I'd like to see what Stan the Man might do.

[LBPTarHeel27]

There is only one guy in the league I would say DEFINITELY does a better job, and that is of course Pop over in San Antonio...other than that, Stan is just as good, if not better than everyone else in that aspect of coaching.

He is also normally fantastic at game to game adjustments. His judgement in the Finals has been questionable, but everything leading up to this point has been great.

[ezmac2]

I would love for us to somehow get Josh McRoberts

[fendilim]

really interesting post but some I disagree. I don't think blake would even get a shot with this team. Jameer is set as a PG and with the way Jameer played this season, having no threats of losing his starting job to his bnackup, I do believe that Otis will be doing the same thing for years to come.

darko, I don't know. I really think he could help us but that is if he plays up to his potential every game.

However, Kwame Brown would, IMO, be a big steal for the team. I see him coming cheap, although I don't expect him to develop his game a lot under SVG, Kwame does bring in additional post presence for this team. I must say that Kwame is a really underrated post defender.

All in all, while it is true that SVG can develop bad players, it is all about the player's will as well.

Just think about gortat for example, his game is based on acquired skill and little less on the talents, but his work ethic has turned him into a decent big man who might even end up as a starter for another team.