Where is Nerlens?

[76ciology]

On other prospects, it's OK to assume that they will get better. Inefficient scorers who made their team worse on the court like DLo or Booker are very promising players for most people. Seems like Mudiay being a star PG is still a possibility. I'm reading in this thread of how Porzingis can be a top 5 shooter in the league. If you go to Gen Board, Magic fans believe Aaron Gordon can be a star player. Go to magic board, and you'll read how they think Elfrid Payton can still be a good shooter. Same with Celtics board and Marcus Smart. Myles Turner as next LMA? Most LAL fans thinks Jordan Clarkson can be a star player. Bucks fans still think Jabari can be a good two way player despite being a worse liability than Jah on defense.

But on Okafor, he sounds like he's emeka than jahlil that most view him as a finished product. What happened to his elite for his age scoring talent and volume of shots challenged per game on shots under 6ft. that may point to his mobility on D? 17/7 with 1.2bpg for a rookie is no slouch but most make it sound like he's a bust or Enes Kanter Jr., who is nowhere near as good of a defender as Jah.

Post game has less effectivity nowadays but it's still effective when defense will increase it's intensity and they start rotating hard and switching on D. Let's say a SF runs PnR with Jah, opponents can't switch on this PnR because of Jah's iso/post scoring unlike say it's Porzingis or Noel where a guy like Rudy Gay or Aaron Gordon can switch unto both these bigs to give them a hard time scoring at the post. Good example of this is when Kevin Love had a hard time scoring against Harrison Barnes in the post during the finals, off a LBJ/Love PnR.

Still.. Jah needs to improve his shooting and PnR game, those should be his primary source on offense. And obviously, he needs to improve his rebounding and better recognition on defense

[LloydFree]

On other prospects, it's OK to assume that they will get better. Inefficient scorers who made their team worse on the court like DLo or Booker are very promising players for most people. Seems like Mudiay being a star PG is still a possibility. I'm reading in this thread of how Porzingis can be a top 5 shooter in the league. If you go to Gen Board, Magic fans believe Aaron Gordon can be a star player. Go to magic board, and you'll read how they think Elfrid Payton can still be a good shooter. Same with Celtics board and Marcus Smart. Myles Turner as next LMA? Most LAL fans thinks Jordan Clarkson can be a star player. Bucks fans still think Jabari can be a good two way player despite being a worse liability than Jah on defense.

But on Okafor, he sounds like he's emeka than jahlil that most view him as a finished product. What happened to his elite for his age scoring talent and volume of shots challenged per game on shots under 6ft. that may point to his mobility on D? 17/7 with 1.2bpg for a rookie is no slouch but most make it sound like he's a bust or Enes Kanter Jr...

We could only wish that he was an early career Emeka Okafor. If Jahlil was Emeka, after his rookie year, there would have been a line of teams at the 76ers door trying to take him off their hands. Before his injuries, Emeka was an infinitely more useful player than Jahlil.

[bedjawII]

On other prospects, it's OK to assume that they will get better. Inefficient scorers who made their team worse on the court like DLo or Booker are very promising players for most people. Seems like Mudiay being a star PG is still a possibility. I'm reading in this thread of how Porzingis can be a top 5 shooter in the league. If you go to Gen Board, Magic fans believe Aaron Gordon can be a star player. Go to magic board, and you'll read how they think Elfrid Payton can still be a good shooter. Same with Celtics board and Marcus Smart. Myles Turner as next LMA? Most LAL fans thinks Jordan Clarkson can be a star player. Bucks fans still think Jabari can be a good two way player despite being a worse liability than Jah on defense.

But on Okafor, he sounds like he's emeka than jahlil that most view him as a finished product. What happened to his elite for his age scoring talent and volume of shots challenged per game on shots under 6ft. that may point to his mobility on D? 17/7 with 1.2bpg for a rookie is no slouch but most make it sound like he's a bust or Enes Kanter Jr...

We could only wish that he was an early career Emeka Okafor. If Jahlil was Emeka, after his rookie year, there would have been a line of teams at the 76ers door trying to take him off their hands. Before his injuries, Emeka was an infinitely more useful player than Jahlil.

Yes Emeka as a 20 y/o rookie was far superior to Jah as a 20 y/o. :/

[spikeslovechild]

On other prospects, it's OK to assume that they will get better. Inefficient scorers who made their team worse on the court like DLo or Booker are very promising players for most people. Seems like Mudiay being a star PG is still a possibility. I'm reading in this thread of how Porzingis can be a top 5 shooter in the league. If you go to Gen Board, Magic fans believe Aaron Gordon can be a star player. Go to magic board, and you'll read how they think Elfrid Payton can still be a good shooter. Same with Celtics board and Marcus Smart. Myles Turner as next LMA? Most LAL fans thinks Jordan Clarkson can be a star player. Bucks fans still think Jabari can be a good two way player despite being a worse liability than Jah on defense.

But on Okafor, he sounds like he's emeka than jahlil that most view him as a finished product. What happened to his elite for his age scoring talent and volume of shots challenged per game on shots under 6ft. that may point to his mobility on D? 17/7 with 1.2bpg for a rookie is no slouch but most make it sound like he's a bust or Enes Kanter Jr...

We could only wish that he was an early career Emeka Okafor. If Jahlil was Emeka, after his rookie year, there would have been a line of teams at the 76ers door trying to take him off their hands. Before his injuries, Emeka was an infinitely more useful player than Jahlil.

Emeka first two years in the league he wasn't very good. I mean he was good defensively but he was putrid on offense. His VORP was actually 0.1 and 0.0. As far as his trade value goes I don't know what it was. He was viewed as the better player over Howard at the time of the draft but the injury concerns were real. So who knows.

[Sixerscan]

On other prospects, it's OK to assume that they will get better. Inefficient scorers who made their team worse on the court like DLo or Booker are very promising players for most people. Seems like Mudiay being a star PG is still a possibility. I'm reading in this thread of how Porzingis can be a top 5 shooter in the league. If you go to Gen Board, Magic fans believe Aaron Gordon can be a star player. Go to magic board, and you'll read how they think Elfrid Payton can still be a good shooter. Same with Celtics board and Marcus Smart. Myles Turner as next LMA? Most LAL fans thinks Jordan Clarkson can be a star player. Bucks fans still think Jabari can be a good two way player despite being a worse liability than Jah on defense.

But on Okafor, he sounds like he's emeka than jahlil that most view him as a finished product. What happened to his elite for his age scoring talent and volume of shots challenged per game on shots under 6ft. that may point to his mobility on D? 17/7 with 1.2bpg for a rookie is no slouch but most make it sound like he's a bust or Enes Kanter Jr., who is nowhere near as good of a defender as Jah.

Post game has less effectivity nowadays but it's still effective when defense will increase it's intensity and they start rotating hard and switching on D. Let's say a SF runs PnR with Jah, opponents can't switch on this PnR because of Jah's iso/post scoring unlike say it's Porzingis or Noel where a guy like Rudy Gay or Aaron Gordon can switch unto both these bigs to give them a hard time scoring at the post. Good example of this is when Kevin Love had a hard time scoring against Harrison Barnes in the post during the finals, off a LBJ/Love PnR.

Still.. Jah needs to improve his shooting and PnR game, those should be his primary source on offense. And obviously, he needs to improve his rebounding and better recognition on defense

Lol you've actually convinced yourself that Okafor is an ok defender, amazing.

[76ciology]

On other prospects, it's OK to assume that they will get better. Inefficient scorers who made their team worse on the court like DLo or Booker are very promising players for most people. Seems like Mudiay being a star PG is still a possibility. I'm reading in this thread of how Porzingis can be a top 5 shooter in the league. If you go to Gen Board, Magic fans believe Aaron Gordon can be a star player. Go to magic board, and you'll read how they think Elfrid Payton can still be a good shooter. Same with Celtics board and Marcus Smart. Myles Turner as next LMA? Most LAL fans thinks Jordan Clarkson can be a star player. Bucks fans still think Jabari can be a good two way player despite being a worse liability than Jah on defense.

But on Okafor, he sounds like he's emeka than jahlil that most view him as a finished product. What happened to his elite for his age scoring talent and volume of shots challenged per game on shots under 6ft. that may point to his mobility on D? 17/7 with 1.2bpg for a rookie is no slouch but most make it sound like he's a bust or Enes Kanter Jr., who is nowhere near as good of a defender as Jah.

Post game has less effectivity nowadays but it's still effective when defense will increase it's intensity and they start rotating hard and switching on D. Let's say a SF runs PnR with Jah, opponents can't switch on this PnR because of Jah's iso/post scoring unlike say it's Porzingis or Noel where a guy like Rudy Gay or Aaron Gordon can switch unto both these bigs to give them a hard time scoring at the post. Good example of this is when Kevin Love had a hard time scoring against Harrison Barnes in the post during the finals, off a LBJ/Love PnR.

Still.. Jah needs to improve his shooting and PnR game, those should be his primary source on offense. And obviously, he needs to improve his rebounding and better recognition on defense

Lol you've actually convinced yourself that Okafor is an ok defender, amazing.

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/defense/#!/?sort=D_FGA&dir=1

Jah is top 10 in the entire league in shots challenged per game. Top 8 in the entire league in number of shots challenged on shots under 6ft (around the rim?). While opponents don't shoot better than their average FG% when they are defended by Jah. For me, it says how crappy our defensive roster and system is by allowing too much drives to the paint that only the really good shotblocking bigs can survive.

I'm not saying he's a good defender but I do think he has some upside as a defender.

Evaluating a players defensive capability is tricky, but I do think this is the most straightforward/best way. DRPM values the stl/blk/reb rate that skews the picture because you can play good defense by doing a very good job in challenging shots via verticality and boxing out. On vs Off DRTG, depends on players he plays with. While on "tracking defense", players with good DFG% and volume, almost all are good defenders.

[Sixerscan]

On other prospects, it's OK to assume that they will get better. Inefficient scorers who made their team worse on the court like DLo or Booker are very promising players for most people. Seems like Mudiay being a star PG is still a possibility. I'm reading in this thread of how Porzingis can be a top 5 shooter in the league. If you go to Gen Board, Magic fans believe Aaron Gordon can be a star player. Go to magic board, and you'll read how they think Elfrid Payton can still be a good shooter. Same with Celtics board and Marcus Smart. Myles Turner as next LMA? Most LAL fans thinks Jordan Clarkson can be a star player. Bucks fans still think Jabari can be a good two way player despite being a worse liability than Jah on defense.

But on Okafor, he sounds like he's emeka than jahlil that most view him as a finished product. What happened to his elite for his age scoring talent and volume of shots challenged per game on shots under 6ft. that may point to his mobility on D? 17/7 with 1.2bpg for a rookie is no slouch but most make it sound like he's a bust or Enes Kanter Jr., who is nowhere near as good of a defender as Jah.

Post game has less effectivity nowadays but it's still effective when defense will increase it's intensity and they start rotating hard and switching on D. Let's say a SF runs PnR with Jah, opponents can't switch on this PnR because of Jah's iso/post scoring unlike say it's Porzingis or Noel where a guy like Rudy Gay or Aaron Gordon can switch unto both these bigs to give them a hard time scoring at the post. Good example of this is when Kevin Love had a hard time scoring against Harrison Barnes in the post during the finals, off a LBJ/Love PnR.

Still.. Jah needs to improve his shooting and PnR game, those should be his primary source on offense. And obviously, he needs to improve his rebounding and better recognition on defense

Lol you've actually convinced yourself that Okafor is an ok defender, amazing.

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/defense/#!/?sort=D_FGA&dir=1

Jah is top 10 in the entire league in shots challenged per game. Top 8 in the entire league in number of shots challenged on shots under 6ft (around the rim?). While opponents don't shoot better than their average FG% when they are defended by Jah. For me, it says how crappy our defensive roster and system is by allowing too much drives to the paint that only the really good shotblocking bigs can survive.

I'm not saying he's a good defender but I do think he has some upside as a defender.

Evaluating a players defensive capability is tricky, but I do think this is the most straightforward/best way. Players with good DFG% and volume, almost all are good defenders.

Holy crap this isn't the general board get your random cherrypicked stats out of here. It's like evan turner or dalembert all over again. I watched almost every game this guy played last year he was a freaking embarrassment on that end. And at Duke he was regularly taken out at the end of games because of his defense. I've seen middle schoolers with a better idea of what is going on on defense.

[76thBearCub]

Watch the games please.

[76thBearCub]

I hate all these freaking stats. Nothing against anybody personally. But they not only suck the fun out of the game for me but they are clearly not accurate about half the time.

[76ciology]

Lol you've actually convinced yourself that Okafor is an ok defender, amazing.

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/defense/#!/?sort=D_FGA&dir=1

Jah is top 10 in the entire league in shots challenged per game. Top 8 in the entire league in number of shots challenged on shots under 6ft (around the rim?). While opponents don't shoot better than their average FG% when they are defended by Jah. For me, it says how crappy our defensive roster and system is by allowing too much drives to the paint that only the really good shotblocking bigs can survive.

I'm not saying he's a good defender but I do think he has some upside as a defender.

Evaluating a players defensive capability is tricky, but I do think this is the most straightforward/best way. Players with good DFG% and volume, almost all are good defenders.

Holy crap this isn't the general board get your random cherrypicked stats out of here. It's like evan turner or dalembert all over again. I watched almost every game this guy played last year he was a freaking embarrassment on that end. And at Duke he was regularly taken out at the end of games because of his defense. I've seen middle schoolers with a better idea of what is going on on defense.

Character assasination? Because I had mistakes before (and learned from it), I can't give any of my opinion anymore? It's not like my opinion is purely subjective when I put out a very reliable stats system in evaluating a player's defense.

I can give a list of names here who I also think did wrong evaluation of guys. Guys who supported the Iggy era and wasted a lot of years of mediocrity for the franchise. Should I also call them out and tell people question their credibility?

It's not just you who watched games. I actually watched games and record clips to prove my point.

Just tell me if posters can't give their opinions here because it differs from yours and you are again using past topics as a mean of character assasination.

Again, what I posted was not purely subjective and I based it on a reliable stats sytem to prove my point.

[LloydFree]

Lol you've actually convinced yourself that Okafor is an ok defender, amazing.

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/defense/#!/?sort=D_FGA&dir=1

Jah is top 10 in the entire league in shots challenged per game. Top 8 in the entire league in number of shots challenged on shots under 6ft (around the rim?). While opponents don't shoot better than their average FG% when they are defended by Jah. For me, it says how crappy our defensive roster and system is by allowing too much drives to the paint that only the really good shotblocking bigs can survive.

I'm not saying he's a good defender but I do think he has some upside as a defender.

Evaluating a players defensive capability is tricky, but I do think this is the most straightforward/best way. Players with good DFG% and volume, almost all are good defenders.

Holy crap this isn't the general board. Get your random cherrypicked stats out of here. It's like evan turner or dalembert all over again. I watched almost every game this guy played last year he was a freaking embarrassment on that end. And at Duke he was regularly taken out at the end of games because of his defense. I've seen middle schoolers with a better idea of what is going on on defense.

This, this and this: +1.

[76ciology]

Watch the games please.

We allowed too much penetrations in the paint. Almost all our perimeter players are liabilities on defense.
Look at the defensive numbers when Jah sat out the rest of the season where the team played worse defense, specially with Noel.

[Sixerscan]

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/defense/#!/?sort=D_FGA&dir=1

Jah is top 10 in the entire league in shots challenged per game. Top 8 in the entire league in number of shots challenged on shots under 6ft (around the rim?). While opponents don't shoot better than their average FG% when they are defended by Jah. For me, it says how crappy our defensive roster and system is by allowing too much drives to the paint that only the really good shotblocking bigs can survive.

I'm not saying he's a good defender but I do think he has some upside as a defender.

Evaluating a players defensive capability is tricky, but I do think this is the most straightforward/best way. Players with good DFG% and volume, almost all are good defenders.

Holy crap this isn't the general board get your random cherrypicked stats out of here. It's like evan turner or dalembert all over again. I watched almost every game this guy played last year he was a freaking embarrassment on that end. And at Duke he was regularly taken out at the end of games because of his defense. I've seen middle schoolers with a better idea of what is going on on defense.

Character assasination? Because I had mistakes before, I can't give any of my opinion anymore? It's not like my opinion is purely subjective when I put out a very reliable stats system in evaluating a player's defense.

I can give a list of names here who I also think did wrong evaluation of guys. Guys who supported the Iggy era and wasted a lot of years of mediocrity for the franchise.

It's not just you who watched games. I actually watched games and record clips to prove my point.

Just tell me if posters can't give their opinion in this site because it differs from yours and you are again using past topics as a mean of character assasination.

What? The middle school thing was about Okafor not you to be clear.

It has nothing to do with whether you were right or wrong about past guys, it's about how when defending some guy you think is good you create these convoluted arguments based on random stats and clips that end up being completely ridiculous.

How is that a "very reliable stats system?" It's a random page on the NBA's website. Do you have any studies these results are statistically significant over a full year? That people who do average in this as rookies eventually become good defenders over time? How does it compare as a predictor to the other much more mainstream defensive evaluation tools that you choose to ignore? (Many of which Okafor grades terribly in). Did you do any sort of studies at all regarding this "system" other than say "Hey here's something that Okafor is average at, it seems like something that is important"?

Your random clips that you bring up are the same problem. It's self serving.

I'm not trying to silence you or anything. You can say whatever you want. But at the same time when you have a garbage argument that comes to a ridiculous conclusion I am allowed to call you out as such.

But the fact of the matter is that if people can't agree that Okafor has been nothing but a terrible defensive player his entire career there's no point in pretending that we can have a rational discussion about the guy.

[76thBearCub]

Watch the games please.

We allowed too much penetrations in the paint. Almost all our perimeter players are liabilities on defense.
Look at the defensive numbers when Jah sat out the rest of the season where the team played worse defense, specially with Noel.

Your are absolutely right in your first 2 sentences but for the rest please refer to me previous post

[76thBearCub]

My previous post that is. I am not Irish but I drink like I am.

[Sixerscan]

So where is Nerlens?

[spikeslovechild]

Lol you've actually convinced yourself that Okafor is an ok defender, amazing.

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/defense/#!/?sort=D_FGA&dir=1

Jah is top 10 in the entire league in shots challenged per game. Top 8 in the entire league in number of shots challenged on shots under 6ft (around the rim?). While opponents don't shoot better than their average FG% when they are defended by Jah. For me, it says how crappy our defensive roster and system is by allowing too much drives to the paint that only the really good shotblocking bigs can survive.

I'm not saying he's a good defender but I do think he has some upside as a defender.

Evaluating a players defensive capability is tricky, but I do think this is the most straightforward/best way. Players with good DFG% and volume, almost all are good defenders.

Holy crap this isn't the general board get your random cherrypicked stats out of here. It's like evan turner or dalembert all over again. I watched almost every game this guy played last year he was a freaking embarrassment on that end. And at Duke he was regularly taken out at the end of games because of his defense. I've seen middle schoolers with a better idea of what is going on on defense.

I'm not going to say Okafor was good on defense last year because he wasn't but some of you guys act like he didn't do anything passable/well at all and that just simply isn't true.

For example when someone says centers need to be able to defend the rim and rebound like LB and a bunch of posters here do as some sort of argument for Noel versus Okafor they are lying. You may see things one way, I may see things another but the fact that Okafor opponents shot worse in the key isn't debatable it's fact. Or the fact that the team rebounded better on the floor with Okafor then with Noel.

That doesn't mean that Okafor doesn't need to get better in those areas. What it means is Noel supporters are basically making crap up thinking somehow putting Okafor down is going to save Noel. It's not.

I also think it's sort of telling that everytime I bring up the fact his Noels numbers declined defensively last season and that he rebounded poorly they bring up the fact he had to transition to PF. However, these same people never make any such allowance with Okafor who also had to transition to PF -- as a 19 year old rookie. While at the same time learning defensive fundamentals and being challenged in a way he wasn't at Duke.

I'm just not sure what some of you guys expect from the kid. You talk about cherry picked stats well why don't we talk about some of the individual performances he put up against some of the NBA top centers. November 11, Val 11 points on 8 shots. Nov 9, Gasol 16 points on 17 shots. Nov 23, Towns 6 points on 7 shots. Dec 10, Lopez (B.) 7 points on 3 shots. Jan 4, Towns 8 points on 8 shots. I mean the list goes on and on.

For me that is what is most encouraging. He's shown he can defend in spurts what needed is for the CS to get it out of him consistently. A big part of that is improving his conditioning which apparently Okafor recognizes. We will see but I for one am not going to give up on him after one season.

[Sixerscan]

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/defense/#!/?sort=D_FGA&dir=1

Jah is top 10 in the entire league in shots challenged per game. Top 8 in the entire league in number of shots challenged on shots under 6ft (around the rim?). While opponents don't shoot better than their average FG% when they are defended by Jah. For me, it says how crappy our defensive roster and system is by allowing too much drives to the paint that only the really good shotblocking bigs can survive.

I'm not saying he's a good defender but I do think he has some upside as a defender.

Evaluating a players defensive capability is tricky, but I do think this is the most straightforward/best way. Players with good DFG% and volume, almost all are good defenders.

Holy crap this isn't the general board get your random cherrypicked stats out of here. It's like evan turner or dalembert all over again. I watched almost every game this guy played last year he was a freaking embarrassment on that end. And at Duke he was regularly taken out at the end of games because of his defense. I've seen middle schoolers with a better idea of what is going on on defense.

I'm not going to say Okafor was good on defense last year because he wasn't but some of you guys act like he didn't do anything passable/well at all and that just simply isn't true.

For example when someone says centers need to be able to defend the rim and rebound like LB and a bunch of posters here do as some sort of argument for Noel versus Okafor they are lying. You may see things one way, I may see things another but the fact that Okafor opponents shot worse in the key isn't debatable it's fact. Or the fact that the team rebounded better on the floor with Okafor then with Noel.

That doesn't mean that Okafor doesn't need to get better in those areas. What it means is Noel supporters are basically making crap up thinking somehow putting Okafor down is going to save Noel. It's not.

I also think it's sort of telling that everytime I bring up the fact his Noels numbers declined defensively last season and that he rebounded poorly they bring up the fact he had to transition to PF. However, these same people never make any such allowance with Okafor who also had to transition to PF -- as a 19 year old rookie. While at the same time learning defensive fundamentals and being challenged in a way he wasn't at Duke.

I'm just not sure what some of you guys expect from the kid. You talk about cherry picked stats well why don't we talk about some of the individual performances he put up against some of the NBA top centers. November 11, Val 11 points on 8 shots. Nov 9, Gasol 16 points on 17 shots. Nov 23, Towns 6 points on 7 shots. Dec 10, Lopez (B.) 7 points on 3 shots. Jan 4, Towns 8 points on 8 shots. I mean the list goes on and on.

For me that is what is most encouraging. He's shown he can defend in spurts what needed is for the CS to get it out of him consistently. A big part of that is improving his conditioning which apparently Okafor recognizes. We will see but I for one am not going to give up on him after one season.

You are so missing the boat if you think this is about supporting Noel versus trying to reel in the Okafor fanatics. I've been on record as saying I don't care which they trade they are both fine prospects.

The only reason I would really prefer to trade Okafor is because I'm sick of every thread turning into some dumb debate about Okafor. Which you are involved with in two different threads right now btw. Funny how that happens. I'm sure it's all Noel's fault.

This is identical to what happened with Turner and Dalembert, calling everyone that disagreed with them "Jodie Meeks fans" or idk "Kenny Thomas" fans. Funny how some of the same people are involved...

[Easymoney]

Holy crap this isn't the general board get your random cherrypicked stats out of here. It's like evan turner or dalembert all over again. I watched almost every game this guy played last year he was a freaking embarrassment on that end. And at Duke he was regularly taken out at the end of games because of his defense. I've seen middle schoolers with a better idea of what is going on on defense.

I'm not going to say Okafor was good on defense last year because he wasn't but some of you guys act like he didn't do anything passable/well at all and that just simply isn't true.

For example when someone says centers need to be able to defend the rim and rebound like LB and a bunch of posters here do as some sort of argument for Noel versus Okafor they are lying. You may see things one way, I may see things another but the fact that Okafor opponents shot worse in the key isn't debatable it's fact. Or the fact that the team rebounded better on the floor with Okafor then with Noel.

That doesn't mean that Okafor doesn't need to get better in those areas. What it means is Noel supporters are basically making crap up thinking somehow putting Okafor down is going to save Noel. It's not.

I also think it's sort of telling that everytime I bring up the fact his Noels numbers declined defensively last season and that he rebounded poorly they bring up the fact he had to transition to PF. However, these same people never make any such allowance with Okafor who also had to transition to PF -- as a 19 year old rookie. While at the same time learning defensive fundamentals and being challenged in a way he wasn't at Duke.

I'm just not sure what some of you guys expect from the kid. You talk about cherry picked stats well why don't we talk about some of the individual performances he put up against some of the NBA top centers. November 11, Val 11 points on 8 shots. Nov 9, Gasol 16 points on 17 shots. Nov 23, Towns 6 points on 7 shots. Dec 10, Lopez (B.) 7 points on 3 shots. Jan 4, Towns 8 points on 8 shots. I mean the list goes on and on.

For me that is what is most encouraging. He's shown he can defend in spurts what needed is for the CS to get it out of him consistently. A big part of that is improving his conditioning which apparently Okafor recognizes. We will see but I for one am not going to give up on him after one season.

You are so missing the boat if you think this is about supporting Noel versus trying to reel in the Okafor fanatics. I've been on record as saying I don't care which they trade they are both fine prospects.

The only reason I would really prefer to trade Okafor is because I'm sick of every thread turning into some dumb debate about Okafor. Which you are involved with in two different threads right now btw. Funny how that happens. I'm sure it's all Noel's fault.

This is identical to what happened with Turner and Dalembert, calling everyone that disagreed with them "Jodie Meeks fans" or idk "Kenny Thomas funny how some of the same people are involved...

Hold up...so you really want us to trade Okafor based on what a few strangers are saying on an internet message board? That is really bizarre....

Notice that you place 100% of the blame on Okafor fans while conveniently ignoring that Okafor haters derail positive threads as well.

[spikeslovechild]

The weird part is I don't derail threads at all. I follow the conversation. If he is really interested he is more then welcome to take a look at my posts.

I don't know when the topic turned to discussing Okafor but it was well before I entered.