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Welcome Zhaire Smith

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Re: Welcome Zhaire Smith 

Post#1441 » by brannigan73 » Thu Mar 7, 2024 3:44 am

Zumramania wrote:
Jailblazers7 wrote:The Colangelo era feels like a classic private equity takeover where we were stripped for parts, saddled with a ton of debt, and stuck with a maliciously negligent management team. Once the tear down was complete, the offending party just left town and washed their hands of it.


What came after Colangelo was really the nail in the coffin. I guess the owners thought that running a basketball team was like running the risky business adventures that made them so much money, except that they didn't know anything about basketball.
And now I googled Josh Harris and this is the first thing that came up, from 2 hours ago haha:

Smith: Harris 'reeks of a meddlesome owner'
March 4, 2024 11:37 AM
Michael Smith calls for Josh Harris to take a step back after the Commanders owner sat in on the team's quarterback meetings at the NFL Scouting Combine.


Brand, Brown, and Harris all to blame at least as much as the Collar.
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Re: Welcome Zhaire Smith 

Post#1442 » by 76ciology » Thu Mar 7, 2024 4:05 am

brannigan73 wrote:
Zumramania wrote:
Jailblazers7 wrote:The Colangelo era feels like a classic private equity takeover where we were stripped for parts, saddled with a ton of debt, and stuck with a maliciously negligent management team. Once the tear down was complete, the offending party just left town and washed their hands of it.


What came after Colangelo was really the nail in the coffin. I guess the owners thought that running a basketball team was like running the risky business adventures that made them so much money, except that they didn't know anything about basketball.
And now I googled Josh Harris and this is the first thing that came up, from 2 hours ago haha:

Smith: Harris 'reeks of a meddlesome owner'
March 4, 2024 11:37 AM
Michael Smith calls for Josh Harris to take a step back after the Commanders owner sat in on the team's quarterback meetings at the NFL Scouting Combine.


Brand, Brown, and Harris all to blame at least as much as the Collar.


Most of the mistakes lie in investing in the idea of building a team similar to the Spurs, where Ben Simmons and Embiid could compete for multiple titles over a long period.

The league’s landscape was changing, with shorter contracts and tighter cap space, making it difficult to pursue such a strategy. Additionally, Ben Simmons fell short of our projections.

For me, most of our mistakes revolve around Ben Simmons. Drafting him was a misstep, as a ball-dominant guard who struggles with shooting lacks a place in today’s basketball. Furthermore, we compounded this error by not running enough pick-and-rolls or acquiring guards who could execute them, which would have forced Simmons to play in the dunker spot.

Ultimately, it's challenging to build a team around Ben Simmons alone, Joel Embiid alone, and nearly impossible to do so with both of them together.
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Re: Welcome Zhaire Smith 

Post#1443 » by elchengue20 » Thu Mar 7, 2024 11:42 am

76ciology wrote:
brannigan73 wrote:
Zumramania wrote:
What came after Colangelo was really the nail in the coffin. I guess the owners thought that running a basketball team was like running the risky business adventures that made them so much money, except that they didn't know anything about basketball.
And now I googled Josh Harris and this is the first thing that came up, from 2 hours ago haha:

Smith: Harris 'reeks of a meddlesome owner'
March 4, 2024 11:37 AM
Michael Smith calls for Josh Harris to take a step back after the Commanders owner sat in on the team's quarterback meetings at the NFL Scouting Combine.


Brand, Brown, and Harris all to blame at least as much as the Collar.


Most of the mistakes lie in investing in the idea of building a team similar to the Spurs, where Ben Simmons and Embiid could compete for multiple titles over a long period.

The league’s landscape was changing, with shorter contracts and tighter cap space, making it difficult to pursue such a strategy. Additionally, Ben Simmons fell short of our projections.

For me, most of our mistakes revolve around Ben Simmons. Drafting him was a misstep, as a ball-dominant guard who struggles with shooting lacks a place in today’s basketball. Furthermore, we compounded this error by not running enough pick-and-rolls or acquiring guards who could execute them, which would have forced Simmons to play in the dunker spot.

Ultimately, it's challenging to build a team around Ben Simmons alone, Joel Embiid alone, and nearly impossible to do so with both of them together.


Called this a long time ago and everyone was killing me when i was saying we should trade Ben and we woudn't never win anything with him.

It's easy to say it now.

I remember before 2020 Playoffs i was saying our team sucked and we didn't have no chance at all. You can't pair a dominant bigman with a PG who can't shoot at all. Plus we played Horford at the 4 lol. Really crazy stuff. People was doing mental gimnastics saying we were going to be a "bully ball" team imposing our size.

Our management really really sucked at the time. Glad to have someone who has a clue in Morey now.
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Re: Welcome Zhaire Smith 

Post#1444 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Thu Mar 7, 2024 1:33 pm

elchengue20 wrote:
76ciology wrote:
brannigan73 wrote:
Brand, Brown, and Harris all to blame at least as much as the Collar.


Most of the mistakes lie in investing in the idea of building a team similar to the Spurs, where Ben Simmons and Embiid could compete for multiple titles over a long period.

The league’s landscape was changing, with shorter contracts and tighter cap space, making it difficult to pursue such a strategy. Additionally, Ben Simmons fell short of our projections.

For me, most of our mistakes revolve around Ben Simmons. Drafting him was a misstep, as a ball-dominant guard who struggles with shooting lacks a place in today’s basketball. Furthermore, we compounded this error by not running enough pick-and-rolls or acquiring guards who could execute them, which would have forced Simmons to play in the dunker spot.

Ultimately, it's challenging to build a team around Ben Simmons alone, Joel Embiid alone, and nearly impossible to do so with both of them together.


Called this a long time ago and everyone was killing me when i was saying we should trade Ben and we woudn't never win anything with him.

It's easy to say it now.

I remember before 2020 Playoffs i was saying our team sucked and we didn't have no chance at all. You can't pair a dominant bigman with a PG who can't shoot at all. Plus we played Horford at the 4 lol. Really crazy stuff. People was doing mental gimnastics saying we were going to be a "bully ball" team imposing our size.

Our management really really sucked at the time. Glad to have someone who has a clue in Morey now.


While I agree with what you're saying. We didn't have Simmons for that 2020 playoff series against the Celtics. I'm not sure it would have made a difference. At the time I thought that it would have, but it doesn't really matter now. The Al Horford signing mainly was just awful on all accounts. I had high hopes for Josh Richardson too and that failed. Just a mess of an offseason followed by what looked like a very promising step forward. We had Butler for what? 4 months?
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Re: Welcome Zhaire Smith 

Post#1445 » by Jailblazers7 » Thu Mar 7, 2024 1:45 pm

The thing with Jimmy is that I think he would’ve found his way out the door at some point, even if it wasn’t for that Richardson trade. We didn’t have the organizational infrastructure needed to manage a big personality like him.

Imagine him with Doc Rivers? It’d be a disaster.
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Re: Welcome Zhaire Smith 

Post#1446 » by Bum Adebayo » Thu Mar 7, 2024 1:54 pm

Org stability is literally the most important thing, americans are fixated on this concept of superstars who carry a team, while that can happen, it shouldn't be the main way to run a team.
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Re: Welcome Zhaire Smith 

Post#1447 » by elchengue20 » Thu Mar 7, 2024 3:16 pm

To be fair i wasn't sure to resign Jimmy, mostly because of his age.

I didn't saw him playing at this level at 33 plus years old. He's not the biggest athlete, or the most explosive, or a great shooter, i thought his decline was going to start earlier.

He's also been a very rare case in Miami of a player who plays like a top 20/25 in the regular season and a top 5 in the Playoffs.
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Re: Welcome Zhaire Smith 

Post#1448 » by 76ciology » Fri Mar 8, 2024 3:06 am

Bum Adebayo wrote:Org stability is literally the most important thing, americans are fixated on this concept of superstars who carry a team, while that can happen, it shouldn't be the main way to run a team.

I believe it's a combination of both aspects. I see it as a business model where the "organization" develops the concept for the business, while the "superstar" plays a significant role in the product.

Looking at the Celtics, the current team is an evolution of the concept they developed long ago. They favored the stretch 5 concept, with the earliest prototype being Jared Sullinger. Additionally, they consistently sought players who could excel in isolation situations on 4 positions, from Kemba, Kyrie and Hayward to their current roster. And as well as building around wings where they have been pursuing Kevin Durant (they tanked for him and i have been very vocal in tanking for him if you remember), Jimmy Butler and Paul George. Celtics’ “concept” from their front office has always been a step ahead. You can also add the “Big 3” concept that inspired LeBron to create the Heatles.

In contrast, our franchise seems to have a preference for centers. It began with the risky move for Andrew Bynum and continued with hiring Brett Brown, who had experience building successful teams around big men like Tim Duncan with the Spurs. Our draft choices also reflected this preference for bigs, influenced by Hinkie's strategy of building around top-tier players.

Basketball trends evolve, necessitating continual retooling. The league encourages this to prevent dynasties from emerging and to keep the game fresh each year.

Currently, the Celtics' concept of stretch 5s and versatile ISO/defenders aligns perfectly with recent rule changes and salary cap considerations. Conversely, the strategy of building around a center and multiple superstars seems more suited to a previous era.

Our approach is shifting under Nick Nurse, emphasizing lengthy players, and a more collective and balanced talent and a lot of movement in our offense. We're doing all that and incorporating Embiid's talents, which we must maximize over the next few years.

As someone who has witnessed the passage of time, I acknowledge the disparity between our expectations of change and its reality. Change can be gradual but also sudden, and our current pace reflects the need to proceed cautiously with our limited assets while seizing opportunities as they arise.
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Re: Welcome Zhaire Smith 

Post#1449 » by elchengue20 » Fri Mar 8, 2024 4:02 am

Organization is crucial.

Lebron fooled everybody into thinking you can just group together 2 o 3 stars and eventually you are going to win. It only worked with him because he's arguably the GOAT and a good leader. Plus he had to go to learn a thing or two to fricking Miami in his first stop who's a world class organization.

Also Curry + Durant worked very well but Curry is also ridicilously good and easy to play with, plus they already had a very very strong foundation built there.


Other superstars like Kyrie, Durant and Harden that aren't on their level basketball wise and have no leadership skills have failed into building superteams with no organizational fundation at all.

Americans overvalue a bit the "star power" and "Big 3" and all of that.
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Re: Welcome Zhaire Smith 

Post#1450 » by Mik317 » Fri Mar 8, 2024 4:26 am

you can't just stack talent and win.

Got to build a TEAM. Which means some guys have to give up some things and that is much harder for dudes who haven't gotten a chance to do said things. It took Wade taking a step back to let Bron do his thing on the Heat...Wade had already won tho. Much easier for Curry to let KD shine...because again he won already. Said it during the Mavs game...but as great as Luka is...they won't win with him being the whole offense. BUT in regards to Simmons...that was our downfall in that regard. He was the guy everything revolved around so why would he get any better lol. I really think Collars didn't think Biid would ever play and when he did...we had no clue he would be as good as he is but still didn't pivot off the Ben as the PG stuff. Having Brett stick around also didn't help as he was probably too close to Ben to really get through to him.
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Re: Welcome Zhaire Smith 

Post#1451 » by mjkvol » Fri Mar 8, 2024 3:41 pm

Mik317 wrote:pretty sure the only time I was "right" about one of our top picks was Okafor lol.

and I wanted to be wrong that time ha


Funny, but I don't recall anyone but the Sixers and some draft "experts" being high on the Okafor pick. Going into that draft my thought 'process' was anyone but Okafor - it was so clear his game was a couple of decades late for what the NBA game had become.

I'll always believe that Hinkie was forced into that pick by ownership, and the salt in the wound was the Boston trade being nixed. You just can't even make up the series of missteps that followed Hinkie being removed by Silver and his henchmen.
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Re: Welcome Zhaire Smith 

Post#1452 » by SixthStreet » Fri Mar 8, 2024 5:09 pm

It's more interesting to discuss any of the process draftees besides Zhaire Smith...all in the Zhaire thread.

They probably should have just traded out of that draft for futures altogether given what their objective as an organization was at the time. That Miami pick, irrespective of what it became, was a valuable asset when the trade was executed that should have been better utilized in trade.

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