Welcome Zhaire Smith

[Eyeamok]

The Colangelo era feels like a classic private equity takeover where we were stripped for parts, saddled with a ton of debt, and stuck with a maliciously negligent management team. Once the tear down was complete, the offending party just left town and washed their hands of it.

And I bet you Collars got paid the total value of his contract.

[Zumramania]

The Colangelo era feels like a classic private equity takeover where we were stripped for parts, saddled with a ton of debt, and stuck with a maliciously negligent management team. Once the tear down was complete, the offending party just left town and washed their hands of it.

What came after Colangelo was really the nail in the coffin. I guess the owners thought that running a basketball team was like running the risky business adventures that made them so much money, except that they didn't know anything about basketball.
And now I googled Josh Harris and this is the first thing that came up, from 2 hours ago haha:

Smith: Harris 'reeks of a meddlesome owner'
March 4, 2024 11:37 AM
Michael Smith calls for Josh Harris to take a step back after the Commanders owner sat in on the team's quarterback meetings at the NFL Scouting Combine.

[76ciology]

The biggest mistake made by the Colangelos was investing too much in Ben Simmons. While the team had already set their sights on drafting him before their arrival, they should have overruled that decision. Honestly, they seemed to be on board with drafting Ben as well.

Once we drafted Ben Simmons, it was like the Thunder suddenly wanting to build around Josh Giddey. The idea of building around the backcourt of Ben Simmons and Kris Dunn would have been a disaster as bad as the frontcourt duo of Nerlens Noel and Jahlil Okafor.

If there is any value in failures and mistakes, it's the knowledge they bring. This franchise has a history of favoring guards who can't shoot, from Eric Snow and Andre Miller to Evan Turner, Michael Carter Williams, and Ben Simmons. It's as if the basketball gods decided, "Since you love them so much, we'll make Fultz forget how to shoot." Then, we doubled down with Zhaire Smith, Jaden Springer, and the construction of the Ben Simmons and Josh Richardson backcourt, which was probably the closest thing to that Ben Simmons-Kris Dunn dream.

"Stay away from guards who can't shoot."

That message should be posted large enough for everyone in the Sixers front office to see.

[Negrodamus]

I’d argue Colangelo invested more into Markelle since he traded up to get him. Not quite as flawed as a prospect as Ben, but quite a few red flags. The sad part was Lonzo Ball was clearly a role player and it couldn’t have been clearer that Tatum was a 6’8 athletic shooter who was destined for stardom and could play with both Embiid and Ben as he was, and kinda still is, an off ball star. I’ll never understand that move. The shoulder thing was fluky and he was a better prospect than he has been an NBA player, but Tatum should have been the clear #1 that year imo.

[Mik317]

I hated Tatum in that draft IIRC was team Josh Jackson ffs

I would be putting up David Kahn numbers if I was a GM lol

[Negrodamus]

I hated Tatum in that draft IIRC was team Josh Jackson ffs

I would be putting up David Kahn numbers if I was a GM lol

My rule of thumb now is unless they are 6'10+, you should never draft a college prospect in the top 3 with a sub 75% FT. There are exceptions, like if they are a complete freak of nature like Zion.

[Stanford]

My rule of thumb now is unless they are 6'10+, you should never draft a college prospect in the top 3 with a sub 75% FT. There are exceptions, like if they are a complete freak of nature like Zion.

Should have been a huge red flag with Fultz.

[Mik317]

pretty sure the only time I was "right" about one of our top picks was Okafor lol.

and I wanted to be wrong that time ha

[rzzzzz]

I’d argue Colangelo invested more into Markelle since he traded up to get him. Not quite as flawed as a prospect as Ben, but quite a few red flags. The sad part was Lonzo Ball was clearly a role player and it couldn’t have been clearer that Tatum was a 6’8 athletic shooter who was destined for stardom and could play with both Embiid and Ben as he was, and kinda still is, an off ball star. I’ll never understand that move. The shoulder thing was fluky and he was a better prospect than he has been an NBA player, but Tatum should have been the clear #1 that year imo.

Fultz did not play his best game against Tatum and Brown in Summer League, but he still looked like a great PG, controlling the rhythm on the floor. Only game we got out of him before what he now admits was an “injury” that screwed up his shoulder on his shooting side. Messing up that beautiful form right before training camp. Of course Ben and Zhaire got hurt and Embiid didn’t heal right. At least Sam fixed Embiid on his way out the door. So glad Maxey has over-achieved the curse.

[elchengue20]

I hated Tatum in that draft IIRC was team Josh Jackson ffs

I would be putting up David Kahn numbers if I was a GM lol

My rule of thumb now is unless they are 6'10+, you should never draft a college prospect in the top 3 with a sub 75% FT. There are exceptions, like if they are a complete freak of nature like Zion.

Luka shot 71% from the line his rookie season. Just saying....

[Negrodamus]

I hated Tatum in that draft IIRC was team Josh Jackson ffs

I would be putting up David Kahn numbers if I was a GM lol

My rule of thumb now is unless they are 6'10+, you should never draft a college prospect in the top 3 with a sub 75% FT. There are exceptions, like if they are a complete freak of nature like Zion.

Luka shot 71% from the line his rookie season. Just saying....

Rookie year FT% doesn’t really matter to me. Going to the NBA will affect your head since it’s a completely different way of life. It’s why I also am pretty charitable with college freshmen numbers.

[Bum Adebayo]

I didn't like Tatum's 3pt shooting, and I watched some predraft shooting and I remember not liking his form or something, but I liked everything else about him. Still I wanted DSJ back then lol. I was kinda right about Fultz and Josh Jackson, my Josh Jackson hate is one of the most proud acts back then.

[Negrodamus]

I’d argue Colangelo invested more into Markelle since he traded up to get him. Not quite as flawed as a prospect as Ben, but quite a few red flags. The sad part was Lonzo Ball was clearly a role player and it couldn’t have been clearer that Tatum was a 6’8 athletic shooter who was destined for stardom and could play with both Embiid and Ben as he was, and kinda still is, an off ball star. I’ll never understand that move. The shoulder thing was fluky and he was a better prospect than he has been an NBA player, but Tatum should have been the clear #1 that year imo.

Fultz did not play his best game against Tatum and Brown in Summer League, but he still looked like a great PG, controlling the rhythm on the floor. Only game we got out of him before what he now admits was an “injury” that screwed up his shoulder on his shooting side. Messing up that beautiful form right before training camp. Of course Ben and Zhaire got hurt and Embiid didn’t heal right. At least Sam fixed Embiid on his way out the door. So glad Maxey has over-achieved the curse.

I thought his form was alright in college. Being a 65% FT shooter and being known as a distance shooter is a bit of a disconnect to me. If he truly didn't injure it while doing some non-basketball activity, I really do believe he was trying to gain more consistency on his form which would improve his shot at the line and from distance. In the end, he messed up his entire shot.

That aside, he couldn't drag a team with another NBA player (Thybulle) and a few other more than capable guys (Dickerson, Crisp) to 10 wins. That's a major red flag to me. Blake Griffin took an entire team of nobodies to a 23 win season in his rookie year. This is the #1 pick in the draft. You can't be a total loser. The last time prior to that draft where the guy didn't make the NCAA Tourney was... oh the year before with Ben Simmons. Not a bust, but definitely a role player. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule (like Anthony Edwards).

[TheBallsDeeper]

I’d argue Colangelo invested more into Markelle since he traded up to get him. Not quite as flawed as a prospect as Ben, but quite a few red flags. The sad part was Lonzo Ball was clearly a role player and it couldn’t have been clearer that Tatum was a 6’8 athletic shooter who was destined for stardom and could play with both Embiid and Ben as he was, and kinda still is, an off ball star. I’ll never understand that move. The shoulder thing was fluky and he was a better prospect than he has been an NBA player, but Tatum should have been the clear #1 that year imo.

Fultz did not play his best game against Tatum and Brown in Summer League, but he still looked like a great PG, controlling the rhythm on the floor. Only game we got out of him before what he now admits was an “injury” that screwed up his shoulder on his shooting side. Messing up that beautiful form right before training camp. Of course Ben and Zhaire got hurt and Embiid didn’t heal right. At least Sam fixed Embiid on his way out the door. So glad Maxey has over-achieved the curse.

I thought his form was alright in college. Being a 65% FT shooter and being known as a distance shooter is a bit of a disconnect to me. If he truly didn't injure it while doing some non-basketball activity, I really do believe he was trying to gain more consistency on his form which would improve his shot at the line and from distance. In the end, he messed up his entire shot.

That aside, he couldn't drag a team with another NBA player (Thybulle) and a few other more than capable guys (Dickerson, Crisp) to 10 wins. That's a major red flag to me. Blake Griffin took an entire team of nobodies to a 23 win season in his rookie year. This is the #1 pick in the draft. You can't be a total loser. The last time prior to that draft where the guy didn't make the NCAA Tourney was... oh the year before with Ben Simmons. Not a bust, but definitely a role player. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule (like Anthony Edwards).

Fultz was such an obvious bad pick at one. Sixers and fans who drink the coolaide, as well as lazy media who don't watch games (most of them) just refused to see it.

There were major red flags. He got lucky in college from three, but he couldn't shoot threes well in high school, and has always been a poor free-throw shooter. To base the number one draft pick on a small sample of college three-pointers and ignore the rest of his form and game was just mind-boggling.

Secondly - Boston got him in for a work out and immediately called Philly to trade down. How did they not see that as a problem? Reports at the time were that Fultz's work out after that with Philly was terrible, but they ignored what they saw, as the groupthink had set in.

There were also scouting reports that he has been shut down when he came up against above-average college defenders.

And the homelife mom/coach weird thing, and bringing "god" into every conversation. I would not draft anyone so stupid to believe that a make-believe friend has chosen him to play basketball.

Anyone involved in the Fultz decision should never be allowed near sport of any level again.

[rzzzzz]

There were also scouting reports that he has been shut down when he came up against above-average college defenders.

That ain’t the point. The man did not play college with a broken shoulder. Even as late as the SL game, there were no signs of the extreme damage to it we didn’t see until camp. He busted it. He admits he busted it, even if he’s not telling us exactly how he did it. I didn’t like the trade. If we were fortunate and didn’t do so well in the lottery, we might have ended up with Mitchell or Markkanen. (Though at 3 we’d probably have gone for Josh Jackson.) But regardless of how well the Washington team did, he was an actual pg, unlike Simmons, and he had a pretty shot. Which the usual Sixer luck flushed before he played his first league game.

[TheBallsDeeper]

There were also scouting reports that he has been shut down when he came up against above-average college defenders.

That ain’t the point. The man did not play college with a broken shoulder. Even as late as the SL game, there were no signs of the extreme damage to it we didn’t see until camp. He busted it. He admits he busted it, even if he’s not telling us exactly how he did it. I didn’t like the trade. If we were fortunate and didn’t do so well in the lottery, we might have ended up with Mitchell or Markkanen. (Though at 3 we’d probably have gone for Josh Jackson.) But regardless of how well the Washington team did, he was an actual pg, unlike Simmons, and he had a pretty shot. Which the usual Sixer luck flushed before he played his first league game.

Did ne ever have a "broken shoulder"??? - that's been all fan speculation to make excuses and backtracking to cover the yips by Futlz that I can see.

He was a poor 3-point shooter throughout high school, he has always been a poor free-throw shooter. He got on a lucky streak in college from deep against poor teams.

Broken shoulder or not - he has always been a poor shooter. It's why the Celtics traded down. Everyone was talking at the time about how bad his workouts were with both Boston and Philly.
Fans here did amazing mental gymnastics to try and justify a terrible decision at the time. But all the talk about him being a really poor shooter in his workouts (before the pretend shoulder injury) tuned out to be correct.

[76ciology]

I believe the Celtics always knew Fultz had a shoulder injury, and the Sixers, led by Colangelo, failed to conduct their due diligence.

As a prospect, Fultz is far superior to Tatum, being described as the modern guard in today’s basketball. He possesses the ability to iso, post, run a two-man game, shoot, and defend multiple positions.

Fultz was the prototype combo guard sought after in players like Jimmy Butler, James Harden, and now, Maxey, with some sideline “star hunting” involving Zhaire Smith and Jaden Springer. And when it wasn’t available, we had Shake Milton and Josh Richardson playing that role in 2019-2020.

Moreover, Fultz was also the type of guard the Celtics were seeking, as evidenced by Derrick White and Jrue Holiday. Guards of this nature are highly valuable in today’s basketball, capable of shooting and enabling teams to switch on multiple defensive positions while exploiting mismatches in screen/weave actions.

Furthermore, I don’t believe Tatum and Biid would function well together, as neither are distributors, resulting in overlap similar skillsets and roles to Lavine and Derozan.

Unfortunately, Fultz never fully recovered from his injury; he still exhibits a hitch in his shot. Ultimately, Fultz's health determined who emerged as the better player between the two.

[rzzzzz]

I believe the Celtics always knew Fultz had a shoulder injury, and the Sixers, led by Colangelo, failed to conduct their due diligence.

Unfortunately, Fultz never fully recovered from his injury; he still exhibits a hitch in his shot. Ultimately, Fultz's health determined who emerged as the better player between the two.

Remember when Fultz received that diagnosis of thoracic outlet syndrome? The most common cause of it is vehicular injury, primarily motorcycle. But we read that growing up in Upper Marlboro, Fultz had set up a ramp so that who could flip his BMX head over heels. I can’t prove it, but I could imagine the kid hanging out at home after SL, tempted to take one last childish bike flip. All he says is that he “injured” it. Granted, the Celtics may have had serious doubts about his focus towards necessary progression. But they weren’t smart enough not to get stung by Josh Jackson while they were midair over the heartland suddenly cancelling his workout. It was pure luck for them that Josh sabotaged that session, consolidating their gamble on Tatum. Just like Danny getting rescued from his inclination for Jahlil by Jerry’s heavy handed power play. Of course, it doesn’t make me feel better that our FO has gone out of its way to encourage Boston towards more fortunate results, ongoing jinx or not.

[TheBallsDeeper]

I believe the Celtics always knew Fultz had a shoulder injury, and the Sixers, led by Colangelo, failed to conduct their due diligence. As a prospect, Fultz is far superior to Tatum, being described as the modern guard in today’s basketball. He possesses the ability to iso, post, run a two-man game, shoot, and defend multiple positions.

Fultz was the prototype combo guard sought after in players like Jimmy Butler, James Harden, and now, Maxey, with some sideline “star hunting” involving Zhaire Smith and Jaden Springer. And when it wasn’t available, we had Shake Milton and Josh Richardson playing that role in 2019-2020.

Moreover, Fultz was also the type of guard the Celtics were seeking, as evidenced by Derrick White and Jrue Holiday. Guards of this nature are highly valuable in today’s basketball, capable of shooting and enabling teams to switch on multiple defensive positions while exploiting mismatches in screen/weave actions.

Furthermore, I don’t believe Tatum and Biid would function well together, as neither are distributors, resulting in overlap similar skillsets and roles to Lavine and Derozan.

Unfortunately, Fultz never fully recovered from his injury; he still exhibits a hitch in his shot. Ultimately, Fultz's health determined who emerged as the better player between the two.

So now the story has changed!

First time I've heard someone say there was an injury pre-draft Wasn't there some story made up on this page that he had a motorbike accident after summer league????

He was a poor shooter all along - as shown by his HS stats and collge FT stats. He was mentally fragile, he went to water when pressured by good opposition when he was in college. He has a weird home life.

Boston saw it, and Sixers refused to take off the rose-coloured glasses even when he was terrible in workouts.

Some posters just seem to make stuff up to re-write history.

[76ciology]

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/who-is-markelle-fultz-6030/