OT: Atleast 127 killed after riot at football match

[Nate505]

So the police caused 150+ people to die. That should be the article title.

Kind of. The rioting **** had a lot to do with it as well.

I think it was the police's decision to use tear gas which killed people, the rioting itself did not.

Yeah, but they weren't just using the tear gas for the heck of it. They used it because they were scared, poorly trained and outnumbered by a bunch of rioting dumb asses.

[Shock Defeat]

Kind of. The rioting **** had a lot to do with it as well.

I think it was the police's decision to use tear gas which killed people, the rioting itself did not.

Yeah, but they weren't just using the tear gas for the heck of it. They used it because they were scared, poorly trained and outnumbered by a bunch of rioting dumb asses.

So in other words the police didn't do their jobs, and made the situation worse. That happens all the time.

[Mamba81p]

I cannot stress enough how idiotic it is to launch tear gas into a crowd that has very few escape routes. That is such law enforcement malpractice that the cops are either sadistic, or more likely, untrained and extremely scared to the point where they felt it was the only option they had.

100%. This should be obvious to everyone. Once the police threw tear gas into the stands, the only possible outcome was tragedy.

TBH I thought this was pretty standard for police to deal with hooligans, no matter how idiotic it is. I was at a few games where police used tear gas inside the stadium, to deal with them.

[Mamba81p]

I went to a USA-Mexico match at the Cotton Bowl 15 years or so ago and it was almost apocalyptic. I was covering the game for a newspaper and they actually led us down through the crowd, which was about 95 pct Mexico fans, to the field for interviews. I look over at one point and some dude's burning a freaking phone book. A dude in front of me got hit with a cup of beer. (We think it was beer.) And so on. I imagine a lot of people enjoy that kind of, uh, rowdiness but I look at it like Mardis Gras or a nightclub -- you'd have to pay me to go, and even then I probably wouldn't.

Mexican fans are nuts. During a Liga MX game this year they had a riot. They also get regularly punished by FIFA for homophobic chants.

I don't understand people who enjoy/endorse that kind of environment. I have an English friend who tells me all the time how much better it is to go to a match now that they've cleaned up the stadiums and cracked down on hooliganism. Our family was actually stationed over there during the late 1980s and some of the stuff that went on back then was just nuts. My dad wasn't a soccer fan and I was thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis close to convincing him to take me to an Arsenal match in London. Then there was some huge brawl at a tube station where a couple of guys got stabbed and that was that.

Of course, a lot of this stuff doesn't really have to do with the game itself. It's just an excuse to engage in some tribal brutality.

You will find from time to time people on this forum praising hooligans, and telling us how boring the US crowds are. I will take boring over things like this anytime

[Nuntius]

I cannot stress enough how idiotic it is to launch tear gas into a crowd that has very few escape routes. That is such law enforcement malpractice that the cops are either sadistic, or more likely, untrained and extremely scared to the point where they felt it was the only option they had.

100%. This should be obvious to everyone. Once the police threw tear gas into the stands, the only possible outcome was tragedy.

TBH I thought this was pretty standard for police to deal with hooligans, no matter how idiotic it is. I was at a few games where police used tear gas inside the stadium, to deal with them.

It's one thing to throw tear gas at fans who are on the pitch, an area that they can easily flee from. It's an entirely different thing to throw it directly in the stands, a tiered area in which one can easily trip, get trapped and eventually crushed.

[Nuntius]

There is simply lack of interest and it's not part of the culture here...I think that's the biggest difference. If little kids in the US grew up loving soccer like they do say in brazil then I think the US could be a soccer power. Just hard to compete with the NBA and NFL here. Even baseball is falling behind in interest from where it used to be

What do short white kids play?

Generally in soccer there is a strong correlation between making the sport free to play and talent production. It's free in south america, that's where most top talent comes from. You can't just create an expensive club, add a membership fee and sit on your hands and wait for the kids to show up, you have to go find them, often in the poorest neighbourhoods, and give them a chance to play.

Exactly. That's why football is so popular. It has no barrier of entry.

[Pachinko_]

You will find from time to time people on this forum praising hooligans, and telling us how boring the US crowds are. I will take boring over things like this anytime

There's a bazillion other football games played around the world every day with fans singing and waiving flags without any violence or any other problems.

Your problem is your tickets are simply too expensive, you've left out the young people and a bunch of hardcore fans, and attracted randoms who don't even like the sport and are there for the selfies and the bragging rights. And the only reason you don't have violence is because your fans don't travel to away games in an organised manner, if they did it'd be only a matter of time, because you also have a bunch of idiots in attendance yelling stupid stuff. And they seem to be the ones closest to the players.

[MadDogSHWA]

Police should not have tear gas.

[Nate505]

I think it was the police's decision to use tear gas which killed people, the rioting itself did not.

Yeah, but they weren't just using the tear gas for the heck of it. They used it because they were scared, poorly trained and outnumbered by a bunch of rioting dumb asses.

So in other words the police didn't do their jobs, and made the situation worse. That happens all the time.

They made the situation worse. They didn't create the situation. The rioting morons did.

[Nate505]

You will find from time to time people on this forum praising hooligans, and telling us how boring the US crowds are. I will take boring over things like this anytime

There's a bazillion other football games played around the world every day with fans singing and waiving flags without any violence or any other problems.

Your problem is your tickets are simply too expensive, you've left out the young people and a bunch of hardcore fans, and attracted randoms who don't even like the sport and are there for the selfies and the bragging rights. And the only reason you don't have violence is because your fans don't travel to away games in an organised manner, if they did it'd be only a matter of time, because you also have a bunch of idiots in attendance yelling stupid stuff. And they seem to be the ones closest to the players.

College football fans travel to away games in droves, and they don't have nearly the violence issues that other countries do in games.

[Wolveswin]

I think it was the police's decision to use tear gas which killed people, the rioting itself did not.

Yeah, but they weren't just using the tear gas for the heck of it. They used it because they were scared, poorly trained and outnumbered by a bunch of rioting dumb asses.

So in other words the police didn't do their jobs, and made the situation worse. That happens all the time.

That last statement couldn’t be more false. And it seems you have consumed a false narrative, and now using to shape your misguided opinion, which you now are sharing with the world. So sad you don’t care to challenge false narratives, spend a few seconds researching the truth, and being part of the solution instead of spreading more negative and damaging lies. Please be better, google the truth for your own enlightenment- then spread the truth as it deserves.

[Harry Garris]

Maybe football fans are really passionate about the game.

Typically "passion" in sports is always framed as a good thing but there becomes a point where you pass the reasonable upper limit. Being passionate about sports can be a positive - but like many other things that we can grow emotionally connected to its also important to practice moderation.

Having so much passion to the point where you're engaging in rioting and violence over the result of a sporting event leads to an inevitably awful results like we saw last weekend.

[heezyo2o]

There is simply lack of interest and it's not part of the culture here...I think that's the biggest difference. If little kids in the US grew up loving soccer like they do say in brazil then I think the US could be a soccer power. Just hard to compete with the NBA and NFL here. Even baseball is falling behind in interest from where it used to be

What do short white kids play?

Generally in soccer there is a strong correlation between making the sport free to play and talent production. It's free in south america, that's where most top talent comes from. You can't just create an expensive club, add a membership fee and sit on your hands and wait for the kids to show up, you have to go find them, often in the poorest neighbourhoods, and give them a chance to play.

Exactly. That's why football is so popular. It has no barrier of entry.

It's true, cost of entry can certainly help get more people into the sport, but at the end of the day, it's more about the culture and what kids want to play.

The majority of american players in MLB/baseball are white. The cost of entry is very cheap and likely cheaper than football as well, but kids from those poor neighborhoods just don't choose to play baseball over basketball. There are even programs to help get baseball into inner cities. If baseball is struggling then soccer has an even harder road to get those youth into the sport.

I'm a dodger fan and on something like the 50th anniversary of Jackie Robinson, there was one black player on the dodgers. 50 years later the same number of black players on the dodgers as when Jackie Robinson was on the team

[Nuntius]

What do short white kids play?

Generally in soccer there is a strong correlation between making the sport free to play and talent production. It's free in south america, that's where most top talent comes from. You can't just create an expensive club, add a membership fee and sit on your hands and wait for the kids to show up, you have to go find them, often in the poorest neighbourhoods, and give them a chance to play.

Exactly. That's why football is so popular. It has no barrier of entry.

It's true, cost of entry can certainly help get more people into the sport, but at the end of the day, it's more about the culture and what kids want to play.

The majority of american players in MLB/baseball are white. The cost of entry is very cheap and likely cheaper than football as well, but kids from those poor neighborhoods just don't choose to play baseball over basketball. There are even programs to help get baseball into inner cities. If baseball is struggling then soccer has an even harder road to get those youth into the sport.

I'm a dodger fan and on something like the 50th anniversary of Jackie Robinson, there was one black player on the dodgers. 50 years later the same number of black players on the dodgers as when Jackie Robinson was on the team

I do agree that what kids want to play is more important than most. Usually, kids want the sport that is the most popular in the area where they're growing up. I'd say that in most countries around the world, that sport is association football which is why it remains the most popular in the world.

[Pachinko_]

You will find from time to time people on this forum praising hooligans, and telling us how boring the US crowds are. I will take boring over things like this anytime

There's a bazillion other football games played around the world every day with fans singing and waiving flags without any violence or any other problems.

Your problem is your tickets are simply too expensive, you've left out the young people and a bunch of hardcore fans, and attracted randoms who don't even like the sport and are there for the selfies and the bragging rights. And the only reason you don't have violence is because your fans don't travel to away games in an organised manner, if they did it'd be only a matter of time, because you also have a bunch of idiots in attendance yelling stupid stuff. And they seem to be the ones closest to the players.

College football fans travel to away games in droves, and they don't have nearly the violence issues that other countries do in games.

Oh, I didn't know that. Maybe I'm wrong then.

Australians are like that too, you get a lot of mixed fans sitting together in the stands in their (Aussie rules) football, sometimes they talk some **** to each other but never any real trouble. I still remember the first game I went to when I first arrived from europe, I got off the train with my Demons scarf and everything, got in the tunnel to get to the other side, and I saw a bunch of opposing fans coming from the opposite direction... I froze, I'm like ok I'm dead now lol
Of course nothing happened, they just walked past.