NBA Draft 2024

[bwgood77]

I like how we are talking about "first two picks". We have one pick. If we tried to trade down, to the second round, are guys are likely gone. But you WANT a first and not a second, because you control them for 7 or 8 years. If a 2nd round pick is great, they can force their way out after 2 years.

If a 2nd round pick is great, they can force their way out after 2 years.

Actually, I believe that under the new CBA, they've changed this to benefit teams more in this context:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryantoporek/2023/08/01/why-nba-teams-are-valuing-draft-picks-more-than-ever-before/?sh=28c79c067bbc

Second-round picks should also become more valuable in the coming years thanks to the new CBA. Previously, teams had to dip into cap space or a salary-cap exception such as the mid-level exception to sign second-round picks to contracts. If they signed them using the minimum-player exception, they were limited to offering no more than two years.

The new CBA introduced a second-round pick exception that allows teams to sign second-rounders to three- or four-year deals without dipping into cap space or their MLE. Such contracts either must be two years with a third-year team option or three years with a fourth-year team option, and they pay slightly more than the minimum salary for players with no NBA experience.

The Sacramento Kings became the first team to use the second-round exception when they signed No. 34 overall pick Colby Jones to a four-year, $8.8 million contract, according to Shams Charania of The Athletic. The Atlanta Hawks followed suit when they signed No. 39 overall pick Mouhamed Gueye to a four-year, $7.7 million deal, according to Lauren Williams of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. That figures to become increasingly common in recent years, particularly for early second-rounders.

So now, teams can sign 2nd round players to either 2 yr deals or 3 yr deals as long as those deals include an additional year TO, AND pay slightly more than the rookie scale minimum.

Oh yeah, they've always been able to sign them to even 4 year deals, but a player who bets on himself can opt for a player option in year 3.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I like how we are talking about "first two picks". We have one pick. If we tried to trade down, to the second round, are guys are likely gone. But you WANT a first and not a second, because you control them for 7 or 8 years. If a 2nd round pick is great, they can force their way out after 2 years.

If a 2nd round pick is great, they can force their way out after 2 years.

Actually, I believe that under the new CBA, they've changed this to benefit teams more in this context:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryantoporek/2023/08/01/why-nba-teams-are-valuing-draft-picks-more-than-ever-before/?sh=28c79c067bbc

Second-round picks should also become more valuable in the coming years thanks to the new CBA. Previously, teams had to dip into cap space or a salary-cap exception such as the mid-level exception to sign second-round picks to contracts. If they signed them using the minimum-player exception, they were limited to offering no more than two years.

The new CBA introduced a second-round pick exception that allows teams to sign second-rounders to three- or four-year deals without dipping into cap space or their MLE. Such contracts either must be two years with a third-year team option or three years with a fourth-year team option, and they pay slightly more than the minimum salary for players with no NBA experience.

The Sacramento Kings became the first team to use the second-round exception when they signed No. 34 overall pick Colby Jones to a four-year, $8.8 million contract, according to Shams Charania of The Athletic. The Atlanta Hawks followed suit when they signed No. 39 overall pick Mouhamed Gueye to a four-year, $7.7 million deal, according to Lauren Williams of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. That figures to become increasingly common in recent years, particularly for early second-rounders.

So now, teams can sign 2nd round players to either 2 yr deals or 3 yr deals as long as those deals include an additional year TO, AND pay slightly more than the rookie scale minimum.

Oh yeah, they've always been able to sign them to even 4 year deals, but a player who bets on himself can opt for a player option in year 3.

For sure! But isn't that still dependent upon the team initially signing him and agreeing to that as those contract terms would still be negotiated? I mean it could be fairly risky for that player to be so demanding as a 2nd round option or even as an undrafted signee. their agents may push for that, but ultimately, I'd doubt they'd risk not signing if the franchise didn't agree to it?

[bwgood77]

Actually, I believe that under the new CBA, they've changed this to benefit teams more in this context:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryantoporek/2023/08/01/why-nba-teams-are-valuing-draft-picks-more-than-ever-before/?sh=28c79c067bbc


So now, teams can sign 2nd round players to either 2 yr deals or 3 yr deals as long as those deals include an additional year TO, AND pay slightly more than the rookie scale minimum.

Oh yeah, they've always been able to sign them to even 4 year deals, but a player who bets on himself can opt for a player option in year 3.

For sure! But isn't that still dependent upon the team initially signing him and agreeing to that as those contract terms would still be negotiated? I mean it could be fairly risky for that player to be so demanding as a 2nd round option or even as an undrafted signee. their agents may push for that, but ultimately, I'd doubt they'd risk not signing if the franchise didn't agree to it?

Yes, they negotiate like a FA does but the hold rights for two years. First round picks are locked into 4 years (2 with team options) and then the ability to match a contract after that.

[Ghost of Kleine]

A lot of people have been asking if there was another Jaden Mcdaniels type elite two-way jumbo wing with size, length, explosive athleticism, quickness, and fluidity available in our range. But I'll do everyone one better! Well, what IF there was a prospect available outside of the draft really flying under the radar as an undrafted hidden steal type talent?

I'd like to introduce everyone to Nae'Qwan Tomlin.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/naeqwan-tomlin-1.html

A 6'10 210 210-pound very explosive, very long, very quick/ mobile extremely versatile 3/4, and small ball 5 that's a mix of Jaden Mcdaniels, Taylor Hendricks, and a splash of Naz Reid too! He impacts the game all over the floor but has really flown under the radar after a brief issue of a bar fight that led him to leave Kansas State and transfer to Memphis College.
https://nbadraftroom.com/naeqwan-tomlin/#:~:text=Draft%20Notes,really%20shows%20on%20the%20glass.
https://www.si.com/nba/draft/prospect-profiles/nba-draft-scouting-report-kansas-states-naeqwan-tomlin

Watch on YouTube

*** Tomlin plays with a ferocity and relentless intensity and physicality that would really give whatever team signs him an edge of toughness and grit!

[Slim Charless]

Oh yeah, they've always been able to sign them to even 4 year deals, but a player who bets on himself can opt for a player option in year 3.

For sure! But isn't that still dependent upon the team initially signing him and agreeing to that as those contract terms would still be negotiated? I mean it could be fairly risky for that player to be so demanding as a 2nd round option or even as an undrafted signee. their agents may push for that, but ultimately, I'd doubt they'd risk not signing if the franchise didn't agree to it?

Yes, they negotiate like a FA does but the hold rights for two years. First round picks are locked into 4 years (2 with team options) and then the ability to match a contract after that.

I was thinking.... since this draft is so weak, I wonder if we can use that to get a higher pick using a veteran player.

Like, for example Memphis needs a C...a real one. Would they give us #9 for Nurk......?

Everything I've seen about this draft places #1 pick at like #8 of a normal draft. Seems like a good opportunity to turn a "proven" piece like Nurk into some potential and cut cost while we're at it.

[Ghost of Kleine]

For sure! But isn't that still dependent upon the team initially signing him and agreeing to that as those contract terms would still be negotiated? I mean it could be fairly risky for that player to be so demanding as a 2nd round option or even as an undrafted signee. their agents may push for that, but ultimately, I'd doubt they'd risk not signing if the franchise didn't agree to it?

Yes, they negotiate like a FA does but the hold rights for two years. First-round picks are locked into 4 years (2 with team options) and then the ability to match a contract after that.

I was thinking.... since this draft is so weak, I wonder if we can use that to get a higher pick using a veteran player.

Like, for example Memphis needs a C...a real one. Would they give us #9 for Nurk......?

Everything I've seen about this draft places #1 pick at like #8 of a normal draft. Seems like a good opportunity to turn a "proven" piece like Nurk into some potential and cut cost while we're at it.

I definitely like that idea man! Although I'm sure our idiotic front office is likely saving it for some sort of mind-numbing downgrade. Heck, I'd even do a Nurkic/ PHX 2031 st (likely high lotto value anyways)! for the number 9 pick. Maybe take back Brandon Clarke or Konchar/ filler if they need salary coming back?

New York is also said to be making their picks available for more vet help, or otherwise, they'll look to trade them for a future first or future picks. I wonder If they'd do a Nurkic/ 2031 (with light protections) for Robinson/ McBride/25th pick deal?

Read on Twitter

I know that Mitchell is injured, but he is more athletic and mobile. And Nurkic would be an upgrade for what New York is trying to do, especially with his passing next to Randle under a similar premise to what I suggested with Randle here in a KD trade.

[Desertfox]

Brandon Clarke AND the 9th!? Don't play with my emotions like that...

[kennydorglas]

With JJ at the wheel I'm not even bothering to run my data.

[Slim Charless]

Yes, they negotiate like a FA does but the hold rights for two years. First-round picks are locked into 4 years (2 with team options) and then the ability to match a contract after that.

I was thinking.... since this draft is so weak, I wonder if we can use that to get a higher pick using a veteran player.

Like, for example Memphis needs a C...a real one. Would they give us #9 for Nurk......?

Everything I've seen about this draft places #1 pick at like #8 of a normal draft. Seems like a good opportunity to turn a "proven" piece like Nurk into some potential and cut cost while we're at it.

I definitely like that idea man! Although I'm sure our idiotic front office is likely saving it for some sort of mind-numbing downgrade. Heck, I'd even do a Nurkic/ PHX 2031 st (likely high lotto value anyways)! for the number 9 pick. Maybe take back Brandon Clarke or Konchar/ filler if they need salary coming back?

New York is also said to be making their picks available for more vet help, or otherwise, they'll look to trade them for a future first or future picks. I wonder If they'd do a Nurkic/ 2031 (with light protections) for Robinson/ McBride/25th pick deal?

Read on Twitter

I know that Mitchell is injured, but he is more athletic and mobile. And Nurkic would be an upgrade for what New York is trying to do, especially with his passing next to Randle under a similar premise to what I suggested with Randle here in a KD trade.

I'd be fine with Mitch. His defense would be very useful here.

I'm curious, where would you rate this class in terms of past classes? Like for example if the Thompson Twins were coming out, would you put them #1? Or Anthony Black? Or Taylor Hendricks?

Basically what's the cut-off before Sarr or whoever places above them......

[dremill24]

Brandon Clarke AND the 9th!? Don't play with my emotions like that...

Nobody is giving a top 10 pick for Nurk lol dont worry

[Ghost of Kleine]

I was thinking.... since this draft is so weak, I wonder if we can use that to get a higher pick using a veteran player.

Like, for example Memphis needs a C...a real one. Would they give us #9 for Nurk......?

Everything I've seen about this draft places #1 pick at like #8 of a normal draft. Seems like a good opportunity to turn a "proven" piece like Nurk into some potential and cut cost while we're at it.

I definitely like that idea man! Although I'm sure our idiotic front office is likely saving it for some sort of mind-numbing downgrade. Heck, I'd even do a Nurkic/ PHX 2031 st (likely high lotto value anyways)! for the number 9 pick. Maybe take back Brandon Clarke or Konchar/ filler if they need salary coming back?

New York is also said to be making their picks available for more vet help, or otherwise, they'll look to trade them for a future first or future picks. I wonder If they'd do a Nurkic/ 2031 (with light protections) for Robinson/ McBride/25th pick deal?

Read on Twitter

I know that Mitchell is injured, but he is more athletic and mobile. And Nurkic would be an upgrade for what New York is trying to do, especially with his passing next to Randle under a similar premise to what I suggested with Randle here in a KD trade.

I'd be fine with Mitch. His defense would be very useful here.

I'm curious, where would you rate this class in terms of past classes? Like for example if the Thompson Twins were coming out, would you put them #1? Or Anthony Black? Or Taylor Hendricks?

Basically, what's the cut-off before Sarr or whoever places above them......

Not nearly as exciting or high-end in terms of impact talent. But still very solid and productive in terms of rotation players and solid bench contributors. And in comparison to past drafts, IF looking at the Ayton/Doncic/ Young draft as an A, I'd rate this draft as a Cto C-. This draft would likely have the Thompson twins around 4-6, Anthony Black around 9-11, and Taylor Hendricks around 14-17 most likely. And the cutoff for me would be around 8-10?? Finally, my cutoff for Sarr and/or Risacher is a high-impact starter/ but non star option. Likely a 3rd to 4th option for the top 3.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Brandon Clarke AND the 9th!? Don't play with my emotions like that...

Nobody is giving a top 10 pick for Nurk lol dont worry

Most likely not under normal circumstances and also given Nurkics' craptastic struggles being exposed in the playoffs. But it's also important to consider that this draft isn't viewed as having significant value by the consensus and teams aren't valuing the picks/ ranges as highly either which is why you're seeing so many teams already putting out reports of their willingness to move their picks, even lottery ranges for vet options or impact players! So while it may seem like a nonsensical premise, these conditions make it somewhat feasible in the proper context for value exchange. Like say................... us attaching the 22nd and 2031 1st and taking back equitable or unwanted salary to balance the value a bit?

[Ghost of Kleine]

I will say that our very best options for adding significant depth around our big three with not having any cap space or much draft assets left at all would be to keep our pick and at the very least draft:

22- Missi at 22 (If he somehow falls) otherwise draft Ryan Dunn.

Undrafted range
- Zyon Pullin. Malcolm Brogdon archetype.
-Nae'Quan Tomlin. Jaden McDaniels/ Naz Reid archetype.
Ariel Huktpori (IF Missi doesn't fall to us). Bigger more athletic Capela archetype.

This would dramatically address our defensive issues in the frontcourt and on the perimeter with elite lockdown defenders at both the 3 and the 5 (behind Nurkic). As well as to add elite explosive athleticism, length, positional size, and physicality. And give us players with relentless nonstop motors to energize our team too. This would be huge for us to be able to allow our stars to better conserve energy on that side of the court as well as being able to limit the opposition offensively which would allow our starters more time for rest! And of course, you can still fill in the gaps with some combination of vet min options like:
Oubre, Covington, Batum, KJ Martin Jr, Saric, Muscala, Biyombo, Bidatze? as well as others too.

[Slim Charless]

Brandon Clarke AND the 9th!? Don't play with my emotions like that...

Nobody is giving a top 10 pick for Nurk lol dont worry

Most likely not under normal circumstances and also given Nurkics' craptastic struggles being exposed in the playoffs. But it's also important to consider that this draft isn't viewed as having significant value by the consensus and teams aren't valuing the picks/ ranges as highly either which is why you're seeing so many teams already putting out reports of their willingness to move their picks, even lottery ranges for vet options or impact players! So while it may seem like a nonsensical premise, these conditions make it somewhat feasible in the proper context for value exchange. Like say................... us attaching the 22nd and 2031 1st and taking back equitable or unwanted salary to balance the value a bit?

Yeah his playoffs sucked. Otherwise, I thought his regular season was very good and would be valuable to a number of teams.

I personally still kinda feel, that in this draft a vet that can get you 11 boards a game and 3+ assists a game isn't nothing. Getting #9 from Memphis isn't crazy to me. What he does is exactly what a Ja led Grizzlies team needs. They have the defenders in Smart and J³ to make up for him.

Not saying they'll do it.... but they should. We obviously should if given the chance. I don't even need Clarke, just #9 is enough for me in a straight swap for Nurk.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Nobody is giving a top 10 pick for Nurk lol dont worry

Most likely not under normal circumstances and also given Nurkics' craptastic struggles being exposed in the playoffs. But it's also important to consider that this draft isn't viewed as having significant value by the consensus and teams aren't valuing the picks/ ranges as highly either which is why you're seeing so many teams already putting out reports of their willingness to move their picks, even lottery ranges for vet options or impact players! So while it may seem like a nonsensical premise, these conditions make it somewhat feasible in the proper context for value exchange. Like say................... us attaching the 22nd and 2031 1st and taking back equitable or unwanted salary to balance the value a bit?

Yeah his playoffs sucked. Otherwise, I thought his regular season was very good and would be valuable to a number of teams.

I personally still kinda feel, that in this draft a vet that can get you 11 boards a game and 3+ assists a game isn't nothing. Getting #9 from Memphis isn't crazy to me. What he does is exactly what a Ja led Grizzlies team needs. They have the defenders in Smart and J³ to make up for him.

Not saying they'll do it.... but they should. We obviously should if given the chance. I don't even need Clarke, just #9 is enough for me in a straight swap for Nurk.

Yeah! I agree with all of the points you made. In this particular draft with it not being as highly rated for high end talent but more on the average high floor low ceiling ranges throughout, what production Nurkic provides would likely be better from the jump over whatever you'd be hoping for feom a younger developmental prospect in that range.

So depending upon Memphis' patience level for future development or hunger level to try and accelerate their competitive trajectory will greatly affect their willingness to do that kind of trade. And recent news from them ( as well as other teams in this draft too) indicates a steong willingness to swap their picks for more established ready to contribute players to accelerate those timelines.

** I only included Clarke as a salary filler to offset them eating Nurkics' 18 million to lessen that gap so the value from our exchange would appear more even without us having to add more value in the deal hopefully?

[KdoubleDees23]

Suns should just draft

Zach Edey with our pick this year.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Suns should just draft

Zach Edey with our pick this year.

Something like that would make too much sense honestly. I fully expect this front office to trade the 22nd pick attached to Nurkic for Mitchell Robinson (whom I kind of like) and McBride as both would low key fit our needs. But I'd at least hope to get back the Knicks 38th pick back in the deal to see if we can add another solid bench depth option in that range.

I'd really want them to consider keeping their pick and looking at Ryan Dunn as a 6'8 elite explosive lockdown defensive wing/ forward. And then look at a center like Ariel Huktpori (7'0 athletic Capela 2.0). Then we'd have the paint and perimeter locked down defensively!

But I'd also be happy with Edey as he'd be a very logical choice to pull defenders away from the perimeter and into the paint on double and triple teams which is a big part of what this team needs desperately.

[Saberestar]

Suns should just draft

Zach Edey with our pick this year.

Edey will be gone at #22. Teams are talking about him as a lottery selection.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Suns should just draft

Zach Edey with our pick this year.

Edey will be gone at #22. Teams are talking about him as a lottery selection.

This is a distinct possibility as there just aren't many high-end impact prospects or star-level prospects (if any) in this draft. But there ARE still plenty of high-floor productive and skilled rotation and high-level bench contributors throughout the draft, and those with singular elite talents/skillsets that would actually fit our needs quite well! This is specifically why this draft although devoid of star-level or even high-impact talent is actually perfect for us. Because we already have our stars and don't really need anything beyond solid cost-effective bench-level to rotation-level complimentary contributors with beneficial skillsets. And these prospects offer better impact potential and perceived value escalation beyond their rookie scale values as opposed to low-end mediocre vet min options.

Now this is relevant to the Edey premise because teams will look for " sure thing" productive options with high floors, and Edey has established that over consecutive years in college. And his sheer size will guarantee a level of dominance even outside skill set progression. He's a safe bet in a shallow draft.

[Slim Charless]

Suns should just draft

Zach Edey with our pick this year.

Edey will be gone at #22. Teams are talking about him as a lottery selection.

This is a distinct possibility as there just aren't many high-end impact prospects or star-level prospects (if any) in this draft. But there ARE still plenty of high-floor productive and skilled rotation and high-level bench contributors throughout the draft, and those with singular elite talents/skillsets that would actually fit our needs quite well! This is specifically why this draft although devoid of star-level or even high-impact talent is actually perfect for us. Because we already have our stars and don't really need anything beyond solid cost-effective bench-level to rotation-level complimentary contributors with beneficial skillsets. And these prospects offer better impact potential and perceived value escalation beyond their rookie scale values as opposed to low-end mediocre vet min options.

Now this is relevant to the Edey premise because teams will look for " sure thing" productive options with high floors, and Edey has established that over consecutive years in college. And his sheer size will guarantee a level of dominance even outside skill set progression. He's a safe bet in a shallow draft.

Edey seems a little lumbering to me. I think if you play a mobilr big next to him, then he'd be fine. Like Miami with Bam, that's a good pairing that would give opposing frontcourts problems. We don't have a Bam.

For us, Missi, Filipowski or if we can get in the lotto, Clingan would be better fits IMO. Dunn would be awesome as well and could fit right in here.