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The Official 2024 Offseason Thread

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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#961 » by Saberestar » Wed May 15, 2024 10:21 am

SideSwipe wrote:Anyone interested in turning Beal, Nurk, Little and our two #1 picks into Van Vleet and Sengun (+Je Gree and Londale) from HOU? I have the basics of a three-way trade coming together with Trae/Beal/Nurk going to to HOU with ATL grabbing Je Green, Thompson and our two picks along with Brooks.

FVV/ Allen
Booker/ Gordon
Okogie/O'neal
Durant/ Green/ Bol
Sengun/Londale

Feels better balanced to me while getting a little younger for whatever happens post Durant. FVV, Booker, Sengun could still be good for years to come. The cost is picks and taking back some bad salary to unload Beals contract.

Sengun is untouchable.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#962 » by SunsRback4Good » Wed May 15, 2024 11:04 am

Saberestar wrote:
SideSwipe wrote:Anyone interested in turning Beal, Nurk, Little and our two #1 picks into Van Vleet and Sengun (+Je Gree and Londale) from HOU? I have the basics of a three-way trade coming together with Trae/Beal/Nurk going to to HOU with ATL grabbing Je Green, Thompson and our two picks along with Brooks.

FVV/ Allen
Booker/ Gordon
Okogie/O'neal
Durant/ Green/ Bol
Sengun/Londale

Feels better balanced to me while getting a little younger for whatever happens post Durant. FVV, Booker, Sengun could still be good for years to come. The cost is picks and taking back some bad salary to unload Beals contract.

Sengun is untouchable.


Agreed.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#963 » by RedIndian » Wed May 15, 2024 11:10 am

For the Nurkic contract, the list of players worth going after:

Dorian Finney-Smith
Zach Collins
Jonathan Isaac
Deni Avdija (dream target - I'd trade both picks for him)
Isaiah Stewart
Mitch Robinson
Grant Williams
Brandon Clarke

I'd be ok giving up this year's pick if we could get one of these players back (with maybe some sort of additional sweetener thrown in if we can negotiate for that). All these players would help us.

2031 should be off limits though for anyone except Deni. If Wizards agree to Deni for Nurk + 2024 + 2031, that's a massive steal for us, and would make us better instantly.

For the Little contract, the list is pretty thin. What I could come up with:

Payton Pritchard
Kenrich Williams
Sasha Vezenkov
Dean Wade
Ziaire Williams
Corey Kispert
Moses Moody
Jalen Smith
Nick Richards
Quentin Grimes

Wouldn't be attaching a 1st for any of these players honestly. If anybody agrees to Little + 2028 Boston 2nd, I'd do that, but otherwise I'd just keep Little and use our draft pick.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#964 » by Saberestar » Wed May 15, 2024 12:13 pm

RedIndian wrote:For the Nurkic contract, the list of players worth going after:

Dorian Finney-Smith
Zach Collins
Jonathan Isaac
Deni Avdija (dream target - I'd trade both picks for him)
Isaiah Stewart
Mitch Robinson
Grant Williams
Brandon Clarke

I'd be ok giving up this year's pick if we could get one of these players back (with maybe some sort of additional sweetener thrown in if we can negotiate for that). All these players would help us.

2031 should be off limits though for anyone except Deni. If Wizards agree to Deni for Nurk + 2024 + 2031, that's a massive steal for us, and would make us better instantly.

For the Little contract, the list is pretty thin. What I could come up with:

Payton Pritchard
Kenrich Williams
Sasha Vezenkov
Dean Wade
Ziaire Williams
Corey Kispert
Moses Moody
Jalen Smith
Nick Richards
Quentin Grimes

Wouldn't be attaching a 1st for any of these players honestly. If anybody agrees to Little + 2028 Boston 2nd, I'd do that, but otherwise I'd just keep Little and use our draft pick.

Jonathan Isaac fits perfectly next to Beal/Book/KD but there are two questions about him:
Is he gonna be relatively healthy?
Are the Magic interested in Nurkic?

I can buy the idea of gamble on him because his potential on defense is DPOTY. He can defend 1-5 for real, so I would be OK trading Nurkic + #22 for him.

The Magic have some great young players at his position and he will be an expiring next year so I can envision them trading him because they will not want to pay him big money as a backup. We can take advantage from that situation.

For Little's salary I would be highly interested in Pritchard. I think he is the best player out of that list and I think he is probably even better than TJ McConnell.

Little + #22 would be nice for him.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#965 » by dremill24 » Wed May 15, 2024 1:25 pm

Saberestar wrote:
RedIndian wrote:For the Nurkic contract, the list of players worth going after:

Dorian Finney-Smith
Zach Collins
Jonathan Isaac
Deni Avdija (dream target - I'd trade both picks for him)
Isaiah Stewart
Mitch Robinson
Grant Williams
Brandon Clarke

I'd be ok giving up this year's pick if we could get one of these players back (with maybe some sort of additional sweetener thrown in if we can negotiate for that). All these players would help us.

2031 should be off limits though for anyone except Deni. If Wizards agree to Deni for Nurk + 2024 + 2031, that's a massive steal for us, and would make us better instantly.

For the Little contract, the list is pretty thin. What I could come up with:

Payton Pritchard
Kenrich Williams
Sasha Vezenkov
Dean Wade
Ziaire Williams
Corey Kispert
Moses Moody
Jalen Smith
Nick Richards
Quentin Grimes

Wouldn't be attaching a 1st for any of these players honestly. If anybody agrees to Little + 2028 Boston 2nd, I'd do that, but otherwise I'd just keep Little and use our draft pick.

Jonathan Isaac fits perfectly next to Beal/Book/KD but there are two questions about him:
Is he gonna be relatively healthy?
Are the Magic interested in Nurkic?

I can buy the idea of gamble on him because his potential on defense is DPOTY. He can defend 1-5 for real, so I would be OK trading Nurkic + #22 for him.

The Magic have some great young players at his position and he will be an expiring next year so I can envision them trading him because they will not want to pay him big money as a backup. We can take advantage from that situation.

For Little's salary I would be highly interested in Pritchard. I think he is the best player out of that list and I think he is probably even better than TJ McConnell.

Little + #22 would be nice for him.


Boston looking like a 2nd apron team themselves, so they couldn't swap those salaries...not sure they'd be into it even if they could
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#966 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed May 15, 2024 3:41 pm

We don't really need star players or even necessarily high impact players from this draft ( although it'd be nice to find one) as we already have our stars! We really just need to find key utility players with specific skillsets that shore up our weaknesses at certain areas that are clear weaknesses for us.

Kolek- answers ballhandling and ball security, in game management, turnovers and playmaking needs to keep our bench involved and productive.

Missi- addresses our very critical needs for a highly mobile and switchable post defender and rim protector so the opposition can't get high percentage shots against us so easily.

Dunn- is a generationally great lockdown jumbo wing defender that can be an elite switchable defender and lockdown other elite wings and forwards as well as the point of attack and perimeter.

Then you still have alternative options to those three players in the post draft undrafted ranges that we could easily sign to cover those utility needs. Players like Zion Pullin, Reece Beekman, Jamal Shead. Jimmy Clark are high level POA defenders and playmakers. You have Ariel Huktpori who is a decent alternative to missi for high level post and rim protection as a 7 ft physical, rugged and athletic rim protector that has a playstyle very similar to Clint Capela.

Lastly, we could really use a legitimate jumbo wing defender that's bigger and longer than 6'6. You have very solid names like Nae'qwan Tomlin who's fairly identical in style of Play to Minnesota's Jaden McDaniels AND Naz Reid if you combine the two. And you also have JT Toppin, the younger brother of Obi Toppin (Pacers) who is a very high end long athletic 6'9 jumbo two way wing/ forward putting up elite metrics and production. His playstyle and stature/ athleticism/ attributes are almost identical to Larry Nance Jr of the (Pels).

We have a lot of very solid high floor options that are cost effective if we only choose to utilize the draft correctly to farm talent and cost controlled depth!! Rather than to perennially overlook it and scour the bargain bin, mostly washed minimal value options each year. :nod:
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#967 » by Saberestar » Wed May 15, 2024 4:03 pm

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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#968 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed May 15, 2024 4:40 pm

Saberestar wrote:
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GOOD! Although I'm pretty skeptical on his willingness to legitimately consider this cost-effective strategy to supplement our roster, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for being there initially. It's a good step towards fixing things or at least improving in certain areas.. :clap:
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#969 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed May 15, 2024 5:16 pm

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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#970 » by bwgood77 » Wed May 15, 2024 5:27 pm

When people laugh at how Bridges and Cam don't play well as 1st and 2nd options in Brooklyn, and loved our 4 firsts, Bridges, Cam and Crowder for KD trade, look at the Knicks. You don't need a few stars and minimum guys. You need 1 star and solid role players. Look at Hart, DiVincenzo, McBride and Hartenstein. Alec Burks off the bench, beating the Pacers by 30.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#971 » by Saberestar » Wed May 15, 2024 5:49 pm

bwgood77 wrote:When people laugh at how Bridges and Cam don't play well as 1st and 2nd options in Brooklyn, and loved our 4 firsts, Bridges, Cam and Crowder for KD trade, look at the Knicks. You don't need a few stars and minimum guys. You need 1 star and solid role players. Look at Hart, DiVincenzo, McBride and Hartenstein. Alec Burks off the bench, beating the Pacers by 30.

Cam Thomas was the 1st option in Brooklyn. Mikal and Cam Johnson didn't play well being their 2nd and 4th options. It's what it is.

The Knicks are doing well but they are in the East (not as strong as the West) and they have one of the highest payrolls in the NBA. Randle out probably helps them, his basketball IQ and defense are really low.

We didn't have just Stars and minimum guys. We had role players. Allen, Little, O'Neale and Nurkic are role players with salaries between $6M and $18M and other than Little they did their job. That wasn't the problem.

For us Vogel and the Big 3 failed and didn't meet expectations.

They were unable to play team-ball and couldn't defend well enough. Vogel for whatever reason couldn't motivate them and communication wasn't great between him and the team.

That's why a HC's change was a must this offseason IMO.

Budenholzer fits on paper, I am excited about his addition. Hopefully we will see an improvement on the court with him and some changes on the roster.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#972 » by Slim Charless » Wed May 15, 2024 6:25 pm

bwgood77 wrote:When people laugh at how Bridges and Cam don't play well as 1st and 2nd options in Brooklyn, and loved our 4 firsts, Bridges, Cam and Crowder for KD trade, look at the Knicks. You don't need a few stars and minimum guys. You need 1 star and solid role players. Look at Hart, DiVincenzo, McBride and Hartenstein. Alec Burks off the bench, beating the Pacers by 30.


Our players weren't as tough as these Knicks are, or as smart. That was proven in both the MIL and DAL series when constant mistakes by Mikal on his lead assignment cost us too many possessions. He and Monty's refusal to adjust on Mids and Luka with giving up the switch cost us a championship.

This Knicks team is too tough and plays intelligently. If healthy, they could've beaten Boston. Way more physical then the Celtics and just tougher in general. None of our teams were remotely close to this group of guys.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#973 » by bwgood77 » Wed May 15, 2024 6:54 pm

Saberestar wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:When people laugh at how Bridges and Cam don't play well as 1st and 2nd options in Brooklyn, and loved our 4 firsts, Bridges, Cam and Crowder for KD trade, look at the Knicks. You don't need a few stars and minimum guys. You need 1 star and solid role players. Look at Hart, DiVincenzo, McBride and Hartenstein. Alec Burks off the bench, beating the Pacers by 30.

Cam Thomas was the 1st option in Brooklyn. Mikal and Cam Johnson didn't play well being their 2nd and 4th options. It's what it is.

The Knicks are doing well but they are in the East (not as strong as the West) and they have one of the highest payrolls in the NBA. Randle out probably helps them, his basketball IQ and defense are really low.

We didn't have just Stars and minimum guys. We had role players. Allen, Little, O'Neale and Nurkic are role players with salaries between $6M and $18M and other than Little they did their job. That wasn't the problem.

For us Vogel and the Big 3 failed and didn't meet expectations.

They were unable to play team-ball and couldn't defend well enough. Vogel for whatever reason couldn't motivate them and communication wasn't great between him and the team.

That's why a HC's change was a must this offseason IMO.

Budenholzer fits on paper, I am excited about his addition. Hopefully we will see an improvement on the court with him and a some changes on the roster.


Thomas is just a volume scorer. Bridges is their best player and 1st option. Thomas only started 51 games and was out a lot. I think they'd prefer to trade him. Schroder is also just a 6th man type off the bench and didn't play in a ton of games either.

Bridges is their best player and main option, and Cam Johnson is probably their 2nd best.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#974 » by dremill24 » Wed May 15, 2024 6:54 pm

Or maybe great teambuilding is more complicated than broad generalizations about "stars" and "role players" and "styles" and the like. maybe it matters which stars and role players and styles and approaches and a million other aspects you deploy :dontknow:
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#975 » by bwgood77 » Wed May 15, 2024 6:55 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:When people laugh at how Bridges and Cam don't play well as 1st and 2nd options in Brooklyn, and loved our 4 firsts, Bridges, Cam and Crowder for KD trade, look at the Knicks. You don't need a few stars and minimum guys. You need 1 star and solid role players. Look at Hart, DiVincenzo, McBride and Hartenstein. Alec Burks off the bench, beating the Pacers by 30.


Our players weren't as tough as these Knicks are, or as smart. That was proven in both the MIL and DAL series when constant mistakes by Mikal on his lead assignment cost us too many possessions. He and Monty's refusal to adjust on Mids and Luka with giving up the switch cost us a championship.

This Knicks team is too tough and plays intelligently. If healthy, they could've beaten Boston. Way more physical then the Celtics and just tougher in general. None of our teams were remotely close to this group of guys.


None of our teams? That must be a joke.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#976 » by Slim Charless » Wed May 15, 2024 7:03 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:When people laugh at how Bridges and Cam don't play well as 1st and 2nd options in Brooklyn, and loved our 4 firsts, Bridges, Cam and Crowder for KD trade, look at the Knicks. You don't need a few stars and minimum guys. You need 1 star and solid role players. Look at Hart, DiVincenzo, McBride and Hartenstein. Alec Burks off the bench, beating the Pacers by 30.


Our players weren't as tough as these Knicks are, or as smart. That was proven in both the MIL and DAL series when constant mistakes by Mikal on his lead assignment cost us too many possessions. He and Monty's refusal to adjust on Mids and Luka with giving up the switch cost us a championship.

This Knicks team is too tough and plays intelligently. If healthy, they could've beaten Boston. Way more physical then the Celtics and just tougher in general. None of our teams were remotely close to this group of guys.


None of our teams? That must be a joke.


I think you're picking based off of what you see now. Try imaging this team with OG, Randle and Mitch. Plus Bogi.

If healthy, this Knicks squad would've already swept the Pacers and would be the betting favorite VS Boston- the same Boston who dominated the season.

Massive coaching advantage between Thibs and Monty too. Not sure if you're the one joking or not here lol.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#977 » by Saberestar » Wed May 15, 2024 7:20 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:When people laugh at how Bridges and Cam don't play well as 1st and 2nd options in Brooklyn, and loved our 4 firsts, Bridges, Cam and Crowder for KD trade, look at the Knicks. You don't need a few stars and minimum guys. You need 1 star and solid role players. Look at Hart, DiVincenzo, McBride and Hartenstein. Alec Burks off the bench, beating the Pacers by 30.

Cam Thomas was the 1st option in Brooklyn. Mikal and Cam Johnson didn't play well being their 2nd and 4th options. It's what it is.

The Knicks are doing well but they are in the East (not as strong as the West) and they have one of the highest payrolls in the NBA. Randle out probably helps them, his basketball IQ and defense are really low.

We didn't have just Stars and minimum guys. We had role players. Allen, Little, O'Neale and Nurkic are role players with salaries between $6M and $18M and other than Little they did their job. That wasn't the problem.

For us Vogel and the Big 3 failed and didn't meet expectations.

They were unable to play team-ball and couldn't defend well enough. Vogel for whatever reason couldn't motivate them and communication wasn't great between him and the team.

That's why a HC's change was a must this offseason IMO.

Budenholzer fits on paper, I am excited about his addition. Hopefully we will see an improvement on the court with him and a some changes on the roster.


Thomas is just a volume scorer. Bridges is their best player and 1st option. Thomas only started 51 games and was out a lot. I think they'd prefer to trade him. Schroder is also just a 6th man type off the bench and didn't play in a ton of games either.

Bridges is their best player and main option, and Cam Johnson is probably their 2nd best.

You can consider Bridges their best player but Cam Thomas is their 1st option on offense. That's not debatable.

Cam Thomas 22.5 ppg in 31.4 mpg. 66 games.
Mikal Bridges 19.6 ppg in 34.8 mpg. 82 games

Cam Thomas 18 shots attempts per game.
Mikal Bridges 15.8 shots attempts per game.

Cam Thomas 5.1 FTAs per game.
Mikal Bridges 3.9 FTAs per game.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#978 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed May 15, 2024 7:24 pm

bwgood77 wrote:When people laugh at how Bridges and Cam don't play well as 1st and 2nd options in Brooklyn, and loved our 4 firsts, Bridges, Cam and Crowder for KD trade, look at the Knicks. You don't need a few stars and minimum guys. You need 1 star and solid role players. Look at Hart, DiVincenzo, McBride and Hartenstein. Alec Burks off the bench, beating the Pacers by 30.


You're right about depth and legit role players being important and not needing top-heavy gimmicky superteam rosters. Considering our current situation with a lack of cap flexibility, lack of assets, and practically no desirable trade assets, what's your solution for improving the teams' roster depth this summer? I mean of the the names you mentioned, Hartenstein and McBride whom you covet in New York trades were both 2nd round picks, and Bojan Bogdanovic that many here coveted last summer, even discussing sending two firsts for was also a 2nd round pick too, as well as Monte Morris who's a solid backup for Minnesota. All still playing while we're not, and providing key production/impact for their teams in the playoffs.

So I guess my point is that obviously, you can find impactful and productive players in the 2nd round too, and even well into the undrafted ranges if you only put in a reasonable amount of legwork and research. Our team in our current situation needs to be more aware and open-minded to this consideration regardless of how funny or irrelevant some may consider it. :D
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#979 » by Frank Lee » Wed May 15, 2024 7:48 pm

You might as well follow another team Ghost. The die has been cast. Pishbea is trying to buy a title contender, not build one.

And frankly…. I would question any minimum wager signing here, seeing how they were discarded and marginalized last yr. Another round of flesh peddling will impact the sincerity of any signing going forward. Certainly we wont be getting any ring chasers
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#980 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed May 15, 2024 7:50 pm

dremill24 wrote:Or maybe great teambuilding is more complicated than broad generalizations about "stars" and "role players" and "styles" and the like. maybe it matters which stars and role players and styles and approaches and a million other aspects you deploy :dontknow:


Of course, you're right that there are just so many variables and considerations that go into building a legitimately great team. Factors such as how you plan to add the correct complimentary players that will balance out the roster, How you'll acquire those specific players that will fit your scheme with your current assets, how you'll actually maximize those star players given their styles of play and specific talents, how you'll sustain this roster strategically going forward to maximize your window of contention, and what coach you CHOOSE to bring in will fit what you're trying to accomplish best given your overall personnel. This is why it's important to not rush into hasty or impulsive/ rash decisions before fully contemplating the long-range outcome and consequences of your decisions. Sure our big three look great on paper, but we still lack many vital key pieces that'd balance out our roster and provide proper support for those three stars and how they play.

So yes, you're correct that there's a ton of variables that need to be considered. Our problem is that our front office rushed into trying to throw together a patchwork superteam before considering the best way to make it work, or how they'd sustain it. Now we need to go back and try to address all of those complicated variables as best we can with very limited resources and a very restrictive situation limiting our available options. :-?
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