2014 Draft Thread

Post #1105 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Mar 7, 2014 5:46 pm

In reading Grantland's Mark Titus' NCAA Conference players of the year column, I came across this. Anyone got their eye on this guy? Maybe he'd be a good pick

ACC: T.J. Warren (North Carolina State)

If the NBA draft were tomorrow, I’d probably take Jabari Parker with the first pick, but T.J. Warren has been the best player in the ACC all season and there’s not a close second. In my ACC preview I picked Warren as the most underrated player in the conference and said he’d “need to average something like 20 points and 10 rebounds for NC State to be on the bubble of the bubble.” At the time, I never thought he’d get close to those numbers. Whoops.

(I did predict that Warren would lead NC State to an upset over North Carolina in that same section. That didn’t exactly happen thanks to Marcus Paige’s last-second layup. But Warren did score 36 points, so if Paige’s shot hadn’t gone in, I’d look like a genius. Instead, here we are.)

NC State likely won’t make the big dance unless it wins the ACC tournament, but that won’t be Warren’s fault. After his 41-point outburst at Pitt on Monday, he’s fourth in the country in scoring, at 24.2 points per game, and eighth in the conference in field goal percentage despite shooting more than twice as much as everyone ahead of him on the list. He leads the Pack with 6.9 rebounds a game, and he’s third in the ACC in steals behind Syracuse’s guards. In 29 games this season, Warren has finished with single-digit points just once and finished with fewer than 15 points only two other times. Most impressive, he’s stepped up when his team needs him most by averaging 29.3 points over the course of NC State’s last seven games.

If you haven’t seen Warren play, you’ve missed out on the best old-man game in college basketball. There’s really no other way to describe what he does. He doesn’t have a natural position, he isn’t particularly explosive, and you’ll be surprised at how awkward his delivery is the first time you see him shoot. But he has a phenomenal feel for the game and he’s skilled at just about everything a basketball player can do. Just watch his highlights against Pitt.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi1bx_0A99k[/youtube]

Most mock drafts project Warren going in the mid-first round, so there’s a good chance we’ll never get to see him return and play the alpha dog for an NCAA tournament team.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/mark- ... -the-year/

No-Man · Post #1106 » by **No-Man** » Fri Mar 7, 2014 7:28 pm

He is similar to Marcus Morris, mediocre length and athleticism, capable scorer, better mid range game than Marcus, softer touch and variety of moves and floaters near the rim, but he is slow to defend SF, weak and small to play PF, and he has not the necesary range yet, he is a streaky shooter from 3, although I think he will become a good one.

He is a 6th man type of prospect at best, a scoring combo forward from the bench.

You already have two of those in the Morris.

JDLAW · Post #1107 » by **JDLAW** » Fri Mar 7, 2014 8:44 pm

SunsFanSSOL wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
SunsFanSSOL wrote:
We've already got a lot of cheap players. No one in that range is going to be franchise changing and those picks are going to be valuable trade assets. We aren't even going to have time to give to 3 rookies, especially if we intend on contending for the playoffs next year. Enough with the cheap role players this team needs to shoot for a star.

You never know where in the draft you are going to get franchise players. Dragic was picked what, like 57th? Tony Parker was taken 28th. Rondo was taken 21st. Look at Indiana. George was picked 10th. David West was taken 18th. Lance Stephenson was taken 40th. George Hill was taken 26th. Hibbert was taken 17th. Even Granger, who was one of the best players from that draft was taken 17th.

Also, most of the guys at the very top will be very raw and likely won't be real difference makers for a few years. Some of the guys that go in the mid to late teens, like Adreian Payne and Doug McDermott are probably more ready to immediately be role players.

The top of the draft is almost all hype. None of these guys have taken college basketball by storm, like Durant or even Beasley did.

There is no way we can trade into the top 6 or 7.

Dragic was taken 45th because he was highly under scouted being a European prospect from a small country. Tony Parker is a product of the Spurs amazing scouting, Rondo was a weird case, Paul George went to a small school, Lance Stephenson had character issues etc. But this is not normally the case. For every Tony Parker you'll get 10 Alando Tucker's. We're a team filled with role players and 2 all-star caliber players. If we have very valuable trade assets with these picks and have no time to fully develop these rookies, it would be smart to trade the picks to acquire another all-star caliber player.

Excuses, excuses. BWG is correct - take a hard look at the 2007 draft top -bottom and look at all the impact players that have been taken outside of the lottery. There are at least 15 players taken between 15 and 45 that have become starters and impact players. Several of them are quality starting centers and one of them D. Jordan is likely to win the rebounding title and defensive player of the year. There are even a few all star quality players sprinkled in there - recognized or not, Hibbert, Dragic, Ibaka. You cannot be so dismissive of the potential quality of players that are likely to be available.

The Suns went down that path - sending off a couple picks for cash and passing on others for future picks. The Suns can bring in 3 first rounders in this year's draft if they choose to do so. If you can snag three players such as a Batum quality pick at 25 or an Ibaka quality player at 24, a Hibbert quality player at 17, Pekovic at 31, or a Ryan Anderson quality player at 21, and develop them, their trade value for a "star" will be far greater than unused picks.

Or do you not think Batum, Ibaka and Hibbert would net you Love? I sure do.

Post #1108 » by **bwgood77** » Sat Mar 8, 2014 2:07 am

Fischella wrote:He is similar to Marcus Morris, mediocre length and athleticism, capable scorer, better mid range game than Marcus, softer touch and variety of moves and floaters near the rim, but he is slow to defend SF, weak and small to play PF, and he has not the necesary range yet, he is a streaky shooter from 3, although I think he will become a good one.

He is a 6th man type of prospect at best, a scoring combo forward from the bench.

You already have two of those in the Morris.

He seems more of a pure smooth scorer. I think he would project as a three at the nba level. I like Gordon, being a UA fan and all, but his ft% scares me. He has great intangibles, but I don't see him as a guy who can score from all over the floor like Warren can. I imagine Gordon will probably end up being more of a glue guy who gives you his all every game, but could never carry the scoring load.

Especially with two creators in the backcourt, having a pure scorer who got a lot of open looks would be nice to have. Of course Green is kind of filling that role quite often now.

Warren doesn't seem to be great at 3's, which is a concern of mine because we really need to spread the floor in our offense (though he was better last year on fewer attempts at over 51%).

I just mentioned him in this thread because I don't think he has been mentioned and he was not really on my radar, but looks like a talented scorer who will be drafted in the range of where a couple of our picks will land.

DirtyDez · Post #1109 » by **DirtyDez** » Sat Mar 8, 2014 3:20 am

Fischella wrote:The Suns are going to have 4 picks, in the whole Draft, I don't really see the problem, you are not going to trade-up with a 17-18th, a 21-23rd plus a 28-30th picks, nobody is giving you a lottery pick for that, and there is no point on giving up a first for trading up 4-5 spots and get into latelotto, is better to wait for someone to fall.

Suns have a really weak crop of forwards, even if the Morris, Tucker and Frye are playing well, that group could be upgraded, back-up guards could be better too, you can get that in this Draft.

You get two guys for now, and two euro prospects for draft&stash, or you sell the 2nd round pick, that'll be in the 50s anyway so who cares?

If you can get Vasa Micic, Bogdan Bogdanovic for draft&stash, and Aaron Gordon, Nick Johnson, for immediate improvement, I think that'll be a solid Draft and those players will be able to play a role next year.

Bledsoe-Smith
Dragic-Goodwin-Johnson
Tucker-Green-Morris
Frye-Morris-Gordon
Plumlee-Len

You can re-sign Tucker too I guess.
There will be injuries also, getting a 13 men roster is fine, and young legs will be useful, still, you develop young prospects and if they are good enough you don't need to overpay guys to re-sign then because they become unnecesary, like for example Green or the Morris if they command big money.

Or you can try to pair expirings, future picks and young talent for another star, for example Love if Minnesota trades him (my guess is that they will wait until 2015 FA and lose him, but who knows).

Phoenix plan must be, develop guys, don't overpay for anybody, re-sign only core players, role palyers can be easily replaced by cheap guys in the draft or FA, every year, to wait and be patient until a star become available.

Like Houston did, for example.
You have the backcourt, you have two good projects at Center, especially if Len pans out, for me Plumlee should be an energy bench player going forward (his reach and lenght is terribly bad for a Center, even if he is a good athlete), your SF could be a role player, you need a star at the PF.
Love will be perfect.

As long as Len develops into a franchise center the Suns can take patient approach and with a good HC and bright GM we're guaranteed to be a perrenial playoff team for the near future. The top-2 teams in the west have longterm questions with KD being a FA in 2 years and the Spurs core aging.

I do think we could trade into the top-10 should they target a franchise forward like Hood or Gordon. Unfortunately it might cost the Lakers pick...

WeekapaugGroove · Post #1110 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Sat Mar 8, 2014 3:19 pm

I'm fine with trading some picks for a legit starter who's a long term piece or packaging a couple to move up a few spots if there's a prospect they really like. But if all they would fetch in a trade is role player types they could just sign as fa's then I don't see any problem in using all 3 1sts. Id rather take my chances of using 3 mid round picks on high upside prospects and hoping to strike gold on one of them. The draft is a crap shoot and the more rolls of the dice you get the better chance you have if winning.

Heck take 3 forwards and let them compete with each other for playing time. Hope 1 can make the rotation, ones a deep bench guy and send one to the d league next yr. Or use 2 on forwards and one on a project c or pg for depth there. There's room for 3 more prospects on this team. Can also use all 3 and trade one of the guys at next years deadline to fill a need that comes up due to injury. There's a ton of options with these assets I just don't want to see them dealt for vets with no upside this summer "because we have too many of them".

DirtyDez · Post #1111 » by **DirtyDez** » Sat Mar 8, 2014 10:09 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV1VAv17ZBs[/youtube]

The Dirk comparison is a bit off but he should be available in our área. Great rebounder and NBA ready.

Post #1112 » by **bwgood77** » Sat Mar 8, 2014 10:59 pm

DirtyDez wrote:
The Dirk comparison is a bit off but he should be available in our área. Great rebounder and NBA ready.

The only big concern about him and especially compared to Dirk, his is 29.6% spot up shooting and not good at the pick n roll.

Dario Saric, Croatia

Dario Saric is this draft's true international man of mystery. While Dante Exum has been locked up in obscurity aside from a few highlights here and there, it's hard to make heads or tails of what you're getting with Saric, assuming he still enters the draft for this June. Saric is a big kid that will like split time between the small forward and power forward positions in the NBA. He has a nice touch around the hoop, he seems pretty versatile, and he's a very good rebounder. He's great in transition, he's great on cuts to the basket, and he's really good converting offensive rebounds into points.

But what else does he do? He's been a horrendous spot-up shooter this year, making just 29.6 percent. He struggles in the post and as the pick-and-roll man. He's a solid catch-and-shoot guy when he's open but guarded jumpers in this situation get converted just a quarter of the time. Still, his playmaking ability, athleticism, and size leave many scouts and executives thinking he could be the real deal with a little NBA development.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-bas ... -prospects

DirtyDez · Post #1113 » by **DirtyDez** » Sat Mar 8, 2014 11:40 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
The Dirk comparison is a bit off but he should be available in our área. Great rebounder and NBA ready.

The only big concern about him and especially compared to Dirk, his is 29.6% spot up shooting and not good at the pick n roll.

Dario Saric, Croatia

Dario Saric is this draft's true international man of mystery. While Dante Exum has been locked up in obscurity aside from a few highlights here and there, it's hard to make heads or tails of what you're getting with Saric, assuming he still enters the draft for this June. Saric is a big kid that will like split time between the small forward and power forward positions in the NBA. He has a nice touch around the hoop, he seems pretty versatile, and he's a very good rebounder. He's great in transition, he's great on cuts to the basket, and he's really good converting offensive rebounds into points.

But what else does he do? He's been a horrendous spot-up shooter this year, making just 29.6 percent. He struggles in the post and as the pick-and-roll man. He's a solid catch-and-shoot guy when he's open but guarded jumpers in this situation get converted just a quarter of the time. Still, his playmaking ability, athleticism, and size leave many scouts and executives thinking he could be the real deal with a little NBA development.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-bas ... -prospects

Agreed but those areas of his game can be improved. His instincts, vision and physicality cannot.

I didn't realize he was only 19 either...

Post #1114 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Mar 9, 2014 1:56 am

Instead of creating a new thread for this question (I will change it back in a bit), I'm just curious, who would you want us to take if we somehow lucked out and won the lottery?

I'm thinking Wiggins, considering the 3 is the position we probably need most, especially if McD still believes Len is our future center (I know some are skeptical). Wiggins had a monster game today with 41 on 67% shooting, with 8 boards, 5 steals, 4 blocks and 2 assists. Also hit 2 of 5 threes and got to the line 19 times, hitting 15 of them.

thamadkant · Post #1115 » by **thamadkant** » Sun Mar 9, 2014 3:35 am

You take Wiggins...
Mainly because Suns need a SF and his ceiling is massive...

That and Suns have Len and Plumlee....

any other case... I'd pick Embiid...

but reality.. I'd probably pick Embiid and worry about packaging Len/Plumlee later on the season depending on Embiid's development.... a 7 footer with that mobility and potential is too much to pass on... but so is Wiggins...

Its a toss of a coin lol

Revived · Post #1116 » by **Revived** » Sun Mar 9, 2014 3:52 am

Embiid. I know Suns have Len & Plumlee but Embiid's ceiling is WAAAAAYY higher than Plumlee or Len. Plus drafting Embiid will enable us to deal Len or Plumlee or both in the package for a superstar like Love like many want.

Suns need rim protection & rebounding more than anything else and Embiid brings that plus lot more.

DirtyDez · Post #1117 » by **DirtyDez** » Sun Mar 9, 2014 4:08 am

Embiid and it's not really close for me. He doesn't have the defensive instincts of AD but his rebounding potential is off the chart and he's surprisingly coordinated for a young giant.

carey · Post #1118 » by **carey** » Sun Mar 9, 2014 7:46 am

1UPZ wrote:You take Wiggins...
Mainly because Suns need a SF and his ceiling is massive...

That and Suns have Len and Plumlee....

any other case... I'd pick Embiid...

but reality.. I'd probably pick Embiid and worry about packaging Len/Plumlee later on the season depending on Embiid's development.... a 7 footer with that mobility and potential is too much to pass on... but so is Wiggins...

Its a toss of a coin lol

Wiggins. He's Tucker with the ability to be 100X better offensively but he's already an elite defender. We'd have SF, PG, C locked down for years.

Post #1119 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Mar 9, 2014 8:37 am

carey wrote:
1UPZ wrote:You take Wiggins...
Mainly because Suns need a SF and his ceiling is massive...

That and Suns have Len and Plumlee....

any other case... I'd pick Embiid...

but reality.. I'd probably pick Embiid and worry about packaging Len/Plumlee later on the season depending on Embiid's development.... a 7 footer with that mobility and potential is too much to pass on... but so is Wiggins...

Its a toss of a coin lol

Wiggins. He's Tucker with the ability to be 100X better offensively but he's already an elite defender. We'd have SF, PG, C locked down for years.

Do you feel Kief is a capable starter at PF on an elite team? He seems to be getting there, but I guess I wonder if continuing to play with his brother will always be his best role, because they thrive together.

Revived · Post #1120 » by **Revived** » Sun Mar 9, 2014 8:55 am

How is our C position "locked down for years"?

Plumlee and Len have potential but that's all that they have. Plumlee doesn't look he has a high ceiling and where he's at right now could be his ceiling. Len at this point is just a total puzzle...nobody knows if he's gonna boom or bust.

SunsFanSSOL · Post #1121 » by **SunsFanSSOL** » Sun Mar 9, 2014 9:17 am

Our Centers are terrible but I think Embiid will bust. Give me Parker, Wiggins, Randle in that order.

phrazbit · Post #1122 » by **phrazbit** » Sun Mar 9, 2014 9:34 am

I'd go Wiggins then Embiid. And I would totally ignore position. We are not at a point where we are drafting for need. The draft is used to load up on talent, regardless of position. If the best player in the draft were a PG I wouldnt think twice about taking them, even though I love Dragic/Bledsoe. So I sure as hell wouldnt let Len or the Morrii effect draft targets.

As for bwgood's question about if Kieff could start on a contender... I think it would have to be a pretty stacked team. I like the leap he has made this year but it was a leap from "garbage" to "solid backup". I dont see the consistency or all around game I'd like to have in a starter. Kieff is still pretty rough on defense and with how inconsistent he is offensively I don't think he is starter material yet. But solid backup player no doubt.

Post #1123 » by **Qwigglez** » Sun Mar 9, 2014 9:58 am

Wiggins for sure.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #1124 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Sun Mar 9, 2014 5:43 pm

Wiggins and embid would be close for me. Would depend on if embids back looked like it could be a long term issue.

Mcdourmet with another huge game last night. He might be a guy you package a couple pick and move up to the 10ish range and get. Dude is going to score at the nba level. If he can just hold his own on d he could have a great nba career. He could be devastating in the pick and roll with Bledsoe and dragic.