Archie Goodwin

Revived · Post #21 » by **Revived** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:32 am

AtheJ415 wrote:
SF88 wrote:
Scutt wrote:^ While I agree that Goodwin has some flaws in his game, he has basketball talent. If not, he wouldn't have put up 29 points in a game as a raw 19 year old rookie. Its not just that he is athletic, he has a nice first step and a natural scoring ability, but there are a lot of areas he can improve on for sure.

Yup and he can improve those areas while developing when given minutes.

He can improve those areas every day in practice going against 4 guards who are better than him in all of those areas, and by doing that he won't hurt our win-loss record.

Game time experience always triumphs practice experience. Even Hornacek himself has said this.

Saberestar · Post #22 » by **Saberestar** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:51 pm

Hopefully he learns at practice and enjoy with patience to be on a winning team... But he seems not smart enough to value these things.
I miss the years when we have intelligent players on the team like Nash, Hill or even Dudley.

Revived · Post #23 » by **Revived** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:32 pm

Saberestar wrote:Hopefully he learns at practice and enjoy with patience to be on a winning team... But he seems not smart enough to value these things.
I miss the years when we have intelligent players on the team like Nash, Hill or even Dudley.

I don't think guys who play ahead of Goodwin are any more "intelligent" than him. Especially guys like Green, Marcus, IT, Green, Plumlee, did I say Green??

Saberestar · Post #24 » by **Saberestar** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:10 pm

SF88 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:Hopefully he learns at practice and enjoy with patience to be on a winning team... But he seems not smart enough to value these things.
I miss the years when we have intelligent players on the team like Nash, Hill or even Dudley.

I don't think guys who play ahead of Goodwin are any more "intelligent" than him. Especially guys like Green, Marcus, IT, Green, Plumlee, did I say Green??

Yes, exactly, that is what I wanted to say. There are not smart and vocal's leaders on this team. Not a high basketball IQ team, it is obvius.

WTFsunsFTW · Post #25 » by **WTFsunsFTW** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:17 pm

I have seen nothing that passes the eye test with Archie and we don't need another slashing guard with little playmaking focus that's turnover prone.

AtheJ415 · Post #26 » by **AtheJ415** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:27 pm

SF88 wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
SF88 wrote:Yup and he can improve those areas while developing when given minutes.

He can improve those areas every day in practice going against 4 guards who are better than him in all of those areas, and by doing that he won't hurt our win-loss record.

Game time experience always triumphs practice experience. Even Hornacek himself has said this.

Young guys across the entire league treat practice like games to improve. Your entire premise is faulty. You can say you wish he got more PT, but to say he deserves PT because he works hard and is responsible is just nonsense. Shavlik worked hard and was responsible. Should we have benched Len a few more minutes so Shav got more burn? How about everyone on the team gets equal minutes so long as they work hard? We can adopt a communist philosophy in which everyone gets hugs and rainbows and equal PT.

Revived · Post #27 » by **Revived** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:31 pm

AtheJ415 wrote:
SF88 wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
He can improve those areas every day in practice going against 4 guards who are better than him in all of those areas, and by doing that he won't hurt our win-loss record.

Game time experience always triumphs practice experience. Even Hornacek himself has said this.

Young guys across the entire league treat practice like games to improve. Your entire premise is faulty. You can say you wish he got more PT, but to say he deserves PT because he works hard and is responsible is just nonsense. Shavlik worked hard and was responsible. Should we have benched Len a few more minutes so Shav got more burn? How about everyone on the team gets equal minutes so long as they work hard? We can adopt a communist philosophy in which everyone gets hugs and rainbows and equal PT.

When Shav is a 20 year old with potential, absolutely!

And please, I'm not saying Goodwin should take Dragic or Bledsoe's minutes. He can take some of Marcus Morris minutes or some of Green's minutes on the nights when Green is completely off.

suns91fan · Post #28 » by **suns91fan** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:58 pm

If there is a veteran player in the Suns rotation who consistently gets minute and is similar to Goodwin in terms of skill set, then yes, Goodwin should get more minutes. But... There is no such player in the Suns rotation. We don't have a guy who can't shoot and still get consistent minutes. There is no one who Archie could take minutes from. Therefore, he either learns to shoot consistently, or Hornacek has to change his whole system to accommodate a sophomore player. Latter won't (and shouldn't) ever happen. You don't change your system because of a one guy who just entered the league.

When (if) Goodwin gets his shot together, not only will he become a better perimeter threat, but he'll also be able to get the MOST out of his best ability... Attacking the basket! It's far easier to attack the basket (or get a foul) when a player stays very close to you out of fear of leaving you open. When you can't shoot, he'll then take few steps back and will have a far easier time guarding your attacks.

Damkac · Post #29 » by **Damkac** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:23 pm

I think Suns don't play Goodwin, Warren and Ennis because they are trying to make the playoffs and every win or lose is critical. If it's 100% sure that they will miss then young guys would probably get some playing time. I would like to see them playing at least few minutes in 2nd quarter but as long as Suns has chance for PO I don't see that happening.

thamadkant · Post #30 » by **thamadkant** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:19 am

Damkac wrote:I think Suns don't play Goodwin, Warren and Ennis because they are trying to make the playoffs and every win or lose is critical. If it's 100% sure that they will miss then young guys would probably get some playing time. I would like to see them playing at least few minutes in 2nd quarter but as long as Suns has chance for PO I don't see that happening.

you also have to factor in that Green would still be un-happy even if the Suns are out of the playoffs and the team starts cutting his minutes...

because he is a free agent and wants the maximum money he can get... and he can only get that via playing huge minutes putting up stats and showcasing his skills.

bigfoot · Post #31 » by **bigfoot** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:25 am

Goodwin has played 93 minutes this season. His shooting percentage is .341 on 14-41 shooting. He is playing mop up minutes and if he was any good he would be dominating the other teams third stringers. He has not shown anything during the times he has been on the court to show he deserves to play over Green and certainly not over IT. Green makes dunks all the time like Archie's one good dunk. If he can''t get his shot together he better learn how to play better on the defensive end. Right now he is absolutely one of the worst defenders on the team when you look at advanced stats ... coupled with his crappy offensive numbers he will remain with his butt firmly planted on the bench.

Scutt · Post #32 » by **Scutt** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:08 am

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... -Of-Future

Reading this made my night.

WTFsunsFTW · Post #33 » by **WTFsunsFTW** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:16 am

Seems like Shams Charania owed someone a favor in the front office.

sunsfever68 · Post #34 » by **sunsfever68** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:56 am

So if goodwin is part of the core of the team,

And bledsoe is locked into a 4 more years

I assume they want to resign Dragic but I could be wrong

Thomas is here for 4 more.

That locks up the 1's and 2's

Now the 3's will be a mix of G Green (probably gone in FA) Warren, Tucker, and Bullock

Marcus Morris I assume plays the backup 4 but he's really a backup 3 (and not a good one at that)

We should try to move marcus and G Green maybe with Plumlee and Isaiah for someone solid

NapoleonII · Post #35 » by **NapoleonII** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:13 am

Ideally.....

-Dragic signs a short-term deal, but one that is worth his value (3-4 years) @ 13-15m per, then we resign him for another long term deal after his prime and he plays the Ginobli role for us.

-Archie pans out and all his bitching seems more like competitive fire.

And we roll out in 3-4 years...

Bledsoe/Thomas
Goodwin/Dragic
Warren/Morris
Ibaka-like stretch 4/Morris
Len

Post #36 » by **Yuri Vaultin** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:06 am

What happens when Bodganovic comes over? Doesn't that push Goodwin further down the depth chart?

Flying Colors · Post #37 » by **Flying Colors** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:10 am

Yuri Vaultin wrote:What happens when Bodganovic comes over? Doesn't that push Goodwin further down the depth chart?

we still at least another year at the minimum before Bodgan comes over, i can see him being stuck behind archie when he does come, but yeah we are bleeding guards by the gallon full over here

Revived · Post #38 » by **Revived** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:24 am

WTFsunsFTW wrote:Seems like Shams Charania owed someone a favor in the front office.

Is that person even reliable? Never of him/her before.

WTFsunsFTW · Post #39 » by **WTFsunsFTW** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:16 am

no idea

bigfoot · Post #40 » by **bigfoot** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:43 am

Archie Goodwin was working on his three point shooting as well, along with Isaiah Thomas and Gerald Green who were taking turns with him. Archie wasn't hitting quite as many as Isaiah or Gerald, but was still making quite a few and is obviously working hard at developing that aspect of his game.

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/ ... ledsoe-len

When he's ready he will play.