Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

[JS22]

The amount of agony and complaining over a guy signed essentially for the D-league roster is pretty impressive. I have to admit. Such an insignificant signing leading to this much loathing IS impressive.

If there's a trade down the line which includes one of the guards, then White can move up and keep the 13th seat warm. And in blowouts he can come in and dunk for a few minutes. That is essentially the extent of this move. We can all move along now.

Edit: Whew, looks like it was only about a page and a half of loathing.

[batsmasher]

If you can't tell by the collection of stats, I've done this before.

If you still think they're better with Wall, I can keep going .

I'll play devil's advocate for the sake of it, feel free to ignore me.

The 'scoring load' put on Westbrook and KD is result of how much they hog the ball and it hurts the rest of the team. OKC have become so dependant on those two that there is no alternative play style. You essentially require both if them to be healthy 100% of the time if you want any chance at a chip. That is unlikely.

The rest of the guys on the team have forgotten how to stand on their own two feet because they have been forced to watch from afar as KD and Brodie go to work. It's not that Westbrook makes his teammates better, it's that his teammates aren't comfortable in larger roles when he's off the court because their offense is so taylored to him and KD.

Wall's playstyle suits a team system better because he has such good vision. You compare what Wall has on offer out of a PnR compared to what Brodie has and it's quite clear why Brodie is more effective. Wall has Beal on the wing and Gortat diving to the rim. Brodie has KD on the wing and Kanter diving to the rim. I know who I'd want.

I'm spouting crap. Ignore me.

[bondom34]

If you can't tell by the collection of stats, I've done this before.

If you still think they're better with Wall, I can keep going .

I'll play devil's advocate for the sake of it, feel free to ignore me.

The 'scoring load' put on Westbrook and KD is result of how much they hog the ball and it hurts the rest of the team. OKC have become so dependant on those two that there is no alternative play style. You essentially require both if them to be healthy 100% of the time if you want any chance at a chip. That is unlikely.

The rest of the guys on the team have forgotten how to stand on their own two feet because they have been forced to watch from afar as KD and Brodie go to work. It's not that Westbrook makes his teammates better, it's that his teammates aren't comfortable in larger roles when he's off the court because their offense is so taylored to him and KD.

Wall's playstyle suits a team system better because he has such good vision. You compare what Wall has on offer out a PnR compared to what Brodie has and it's quite clear why Brodie is more effective. Wall has Beal on the wing and Gortat diving to the rim. Brodie has KD on the wing and Kanter diving to the rim. I know who I'd want.

I'm spouting crap. Ignore me.

Actually, I like you guys over here, so counters:

1. Using 13-14 (because really KD never played with most of this newer team yet), KD and Russ were still despite usage ranked 1st and either 4th or 5th on the team in TS (depends if Caron Butler really counts as he was a lower minute guy as was Reggie Williams who was in there). So the scoring load is there, but its also the best option available. They ran isos, but they worked.

2. I actually can't make a counter because there's no real evidence posed in that paragraph other than mind reading of teammates.

3. Actually, this is just false because Wall had Gortat and Pierce, Westbrook didn't have KD most of the season and had Kanter for about 1/3rd of it. Prior to that he had Perkins on the pick and roll. If you've ever seen Perk run a PnR, you'll remember it.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7QsJ87TGN4[/youtube]

[bwgood77]

Is that why you like the Suns? Because we are built for a championship?

I think we're under no illusions where this team is at. The main difference is the Blazers put all their eggs in one basket with that team and it didn't work out. McD likes scattering his eggs everywhere and hoping he lures in a superstar.

The difference between a 51-win 1st round exit and a 35 win season is effectively nothing (ignoring the money side of things). Unless you make the Conference Finals, your team is effectively a failure. I don't think that Blazers team ever had any way to make it that far. I do think if this Suns team can grow into a 50 win team, they have plenty of ways to take that next step towards a championship.

I know, I was joking, but the way you stated it left it wide open for someone to respond talking about how we are the definition of mediocrity. The difference is our core is younger than their's was and we have the rights to all of our players so none can really bolt when they hit their primes. like many of the Blazers did.

[bwgood77]

The amount of agony and complaining over a guy signed essentially for the D-league roster is pretty impressive. I have to admit. Such an insignificant signing leading to this much loathing IS impressive.

If there's a trade down the line which includes one of the guards, then White can move up and keep the 13th seat warm. And in blowouts he can come in and dunk for a few minutes. That is essentially the extent of this move. We can all move along now.

Edit: Whew, looks like it was only about a page and a half of loathing.

I know. I can't understand why people would complain about beefing up our D league team. It's not like we could have signed an all star PF instead.

[bwgood77]

If you can't tell by the collection of stats, I've done this before.

If you still think they're better with Wall, I can keep going .

I'll play devil's advocate for the sake of it, feel free to ignore me.

The 'scoring load' put on Westbrook and KD is result of how much they hog the ball and it hurts the rest of the team. OKC have become so dependant on those two that there is no alternative play style. You essentially require both if them to be healthy 100% of the time if you want any chance at a chip. That is unlikely.

The rest of the guys on the team have forgotten how to stand on their own two feet because they have been forced to watch from afar as KD and Brodie go to work. It's not that Westbrook makes his teammates better, it's that his teammates aren't comfortable in larger roles when he's off the court because their offense is so taylored to him and KD.

Wall's playstyle suits a team system better because he has such good vision. You compare what Wall has on offer out a PnR compared to what Brodie has and it's quite clear why Brodie is more effective. Wall has Beal on the wing and Gortat diving to the rim. Brodie has KD on the wing and Kanter diving to the rim. I know who I'd want.

I'm spouting crap. Ignore me.

Actually, I like you guys over here, so counters:

1. Using 13-14 (because really KD never played with most of this newer team yet), KD and Russ were still despite usage ranked 1st and either 4th or 5th on the team in TS (depends if Caron Butler really counts as he was a lower minute guy as was Reggie Williams who was in there). So the scoring load is there, but its also the best option available. They ran isos, but they worked.

2. I actually can't make a counter because there's no real evidence posed in that paragraph other than mind reading of teammates.

3. Actually, this is just false because Wall had Gortat and Pierce, Westbrook didn't have KD most of the season and had Kanter for about 1/3rd of it. Prior to that he had Perkins on the pick and roll. If you've ever seen Perk run a PnR, you'll remember it.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7QsJ87TGN4[/youtube]

While I would never think about trading Westbrook for Wall, I would be intrigued to see how differently the team would play. Batsmasher's points are one reason I come to a little bit of a defense on the Harden trade, since THREE high usage guys being together didn't allow any of them to flourish into the players they are now.

I think when you have as good of guys has KD and Westbrook, you WANT the ball in their hands though. While I love more team ball and ball movement, I do love watching those guys play. You just have to surround them with the right role players, and Ibaka is a GREAT guy to have to play with those to guard the rim AND stretch the floor and play great D.

It's like the Lakers with Kobe and Shaq. One could have argued that since both were high usage, that LAL would have been better to trade Kobe for Kidd or something, but I'm sure most Lakers fans and fans in general would have said no way to that.

So basically even though I like pass first point guards more, Westbrook simply is too talented to swap for Wall imo.

[bondom34]

I'll play devil's advocate for the sake of it, feel free to ignore me.

The 'scoring load' put on Westbrook and KD is result of how much they hog the ball and it hurts the rest of the team. OKC have become so dependant on those two that there is no alternative play style. You essentially require both if them to be healthy 100% of the time if you want any chance at a chip. That is unlikely.

The rest of the guys on the team have forgotten how to stand on their own two feet because they have been forced to watch from afar as KD and Brodie go to work. It's not that Westbrook makes his teammates better, it's that his teammates aren't comfortable in larger roles when he's off the court because their offense is so taylored to him and KD.

Wall's playstyle suits a team system better because he has such good vision. You compare what Wall has on offer out a PnR compared to what Brodie has and it's quite clear why Brodie is more effective. Wall has Beal on the wing and Gortat diving to the rim. Brodie has KD on the wing and Kanter diving to the rim. I know who I'd want.

I'm spouting crap. Ignore me.

Actually, I like you guys over here, so counters:

1. Using 13-14 (because really KD never played with most of this newer team yet), KD and Russ were still despite usage ranked 1st and either 4th or 5th on the team in TS (depends if Caron Butler really counts as he was a lower minute guy as was Reggie Williams who was in there). So the scoring load is there, but its also the best option available. They ran isos, but they worked.

2. I actually can't make a counter because there's no real evidence posed in that paragraph other than mind reading of teammates.

3. Actually, this is just false because Wall had Gortat and Pierce, Westbrook didn't have KD most of the season and had Kanter for about 1/3rd of it. Prior to that he had Perkins on the pick and roll. If you've ever seen Perk run a PnR, you'll remember it.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7QsJ87TGN4[/youtube]

While I would never think about trading Westbrook for Wall, I would be intrigued to see how differently the team would play. Batsmasher's points are one reason I come to a little bit of a defense on the Harden trade, since THREE high usage guys being together didn't allow any of them to flourish into the players they are now.

I think when you have as good of guys has KD and Westbrook, you WANT the ball in their hands though. While I love more team ball and ball movement, I do love watching those guys play. You just have to surround them with the right role players, and Ibaka is a GREAT guy to have to play with those to guard the rim AND stretch the floor and play great D.

It's like the Lakers with Kobe and Shaq. One could have argued that since both were high usage, that LAL would have been better to trade Kobe for Kidd or something, but I'm sure most Lakers fans and fans in general would have said no way to that.

So basically even though I like pass first point guards more, Westbrook simply is too talented to swap for Wall imo.

I think there's a place for a pass first PG, but at this point in the NBA, they aren't as successful. Curry isn't really pass first, and at some point you need more than 1 guy who can score. OKC has Durant and really no other consistent firepower, which is what makes the fit better to me as well.

[jcsunsfan]

Here's how Bledsoe stacks up with other guards who can get you 15pts and 5asts per 36 minutes

http://tinyurl.com/o9gp55t

Obviously three tiers of upper echelon players

The elite (Curry, Harden, Paul)
The stars (Westbrook, Lillard, Irving)
The pretty good guys (Wall, Bledsoe, Teague, Lowry, Lawson, Connelly)

The thing that makes Bledsoe underrated is defense. Who wants to take a stab at rating that bunch defensively?

[NavLDO]

No, fans who say the Suns are a young team, and use that as justification for being mediocre, or proof that we are not a treadmill team, are foolish. Of the 3 young guys on the team last year, only Len was actually in the rotation. This year we will most likely only have two, Len and Warren. The team might have a couple young guys, but the players in the actual rotation are not.

Yes, because Bledsoe, Knight and Kieff are super old and likely to retire in 2-3 years.

Yes they aren't exactly spring chickens with an eternal abundance of untapped potential. At this point of their careers we know exactly the kind of players they are each with their own fatal flaws and they are most likely not going to get much better. Hopefully they plateau rather than regress. This is a terrible core to build around. Except maybe Bled if he cuts his turnovers while maintaining a consistent assist output and eventually elevates his on the ball D to a lockdown All-NBA Defensive level . He also needs to develop a killer instinct to make up for his lack of assertiveness /inability to be a floor general in order for his numbers to be impactful rather than inconsequential garbage time stat stuffing we saw last year.Even then he's only a complimentary piece and a steady sidekick/#3 scoring option on a contender

That's a not true. You need to look at starting experience and stats/metrics trajectory, not just age, when determining a player's growth, and Knight and Bledsoe are still clearly developing. Knight has improved every year over the past 3 years (combined MIL/PHX stats in 2nd link), and Bledsoe has just 2 years starting experience.

http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/473-brandon-knight
http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=knight

Now look at the comparison of EB and Knight to Dragic and Wall--all very close. And while stats don't tell the whole story, they at least provide something concrete to make a comparison.

http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/compare?utf8=%E2%9C%93&player_ids%5B%5D=473&player_ids%5B%5D=123&player_ids%5B%5D=102&player_ids%5B%5D=348&season=2014

And now look at Wall's career. He's a good example of a player that has likely plateaued, not EB or Knight.

http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/348-john-wall

And then let's not shut Goodwin down yet. Because we signed a D-Leaguer? Really?? He's still here and there has been absolutely no information or news that points to his departure, so why are we basing judgment of our FO on misguided theories and poor analysis. We still have a lot of players that are still developing:

EB
Knight
Len
Goodwin
Warren
Booker (no idea why he was left out of the discussion)
Bogdanovic (next year--let's not forget him)

And possibly Leuer, Teletovic, and Weems, as they are all a bit older, but have very little NBA experience. The only known commodities on this team are Chandler, Tucker, and Price. That's more of an issue than having enough players to develop, and just because they aren't solidly in the rotation means absolutely nothing. You don't want a team that has no veteran players to provide leadership, mentorship, and guidance within the rotation. If you do, and you enjoy watching a team that loses 2 games for every game won, because it's fun to watch a bunch of youngins with ZERO guidance, then by all means, go be a fan of the Sixers. I think Hinkie forgot that the goal of the NBA is to win games, not the draft.

If you want to win games, you don't start more developing talent than veterans. In my view, a team should field no more than 2 players at a time with less than 2 years experience. If we started Goodwin, Booker, Warren, Leuer, and Len, we'd be destroyed, but a lineup of EB, Knight, Tucker, Len, and Chandler would be awesome, and with Len extending his range, I wouldn't be surprised to see Len and Chandler on the floor at the same time for short periods.

[Ettorefm]

I hate the per 36 stat!

That means consistency! Bledsoe is not consistent with his offense !

Well, the per 36 stat is very useful, but only for those that are close to the number. It's almost impossible to predict the impact the player wpould have on 36 minutes - sometimes guys get so many points because they have the stamina to go full on mode, as they are only playing 10-15 minutes.

Sometimes the problem is foul trouble - specially with big men. But all in all, it's very good predicting minute-per-minute production.

We can compare both players and see who brings more in their respective playing time, not comparing raw stats - that's absurd, a guy that plays 4 minutes and scores 4 points has an average of 36 ppg per 36. But we also can say that this low minutes guy impacted scoring more in his time than a guiy playing 20 minutes and scoring 6 (TS% equal for both)

[Sunsdeuce]

I think there's a place for a pass first PG, but at this point in the NBA, they aren't as successful. Curry isn't really pass first, and at some point you need more than 1 guy who can score. OKC has Durant and really no other consistent firepower, which is what makes the fit better to me as well.

That is such a flawed statement its laughable. Put a prime Nash, Stockton, Magic, or any other great on a "current" NBA team and they would still destroy teams. Just 5 years ago, Nash in his late 30s was still carrying the suns. Pass first PG's hardly exist because most kids lack fundamentals. Westbrook is a great athlete and all but has a low IQ and lacks basic fundamentals. Its ALL about him on the court. In a sense, a modern day Iverson. Extremely athletic just doesnt quite grasp team concept. Nash made everyone around him look better (thats a fact and the excuse "really no other consistent firepower" didnt work with nash).

Do I think Westbrook is a fantastic one-one on player, yes. Do I think he can lead a team, no. Will he draw fans, yes. Will he lead teams (as the star player on he team) to championships, no!

On to Bledsoe. He cannot be considered "top tiered" until he gives 100% every game. You get 100% out of bledsoe one out of every 10 games (which is very annoying) and he can't be in the top 3 in the turnover category (No bueno). His shooting is below average for his position. Bledsoe in a nutshell= drive to the basketball, try for a layout, if too many players are in the lane, pass off in desperation, then fall to the ground. Bledsoe is clueless on how to set up teammates.


One very lost art in modern NBA for PGs (especially Bledsoe and Westbrook) is the art of keeping your dribble alive. Players today suck at it. If a play breaks down, PGs need to keep the dribble alive. Modern PGs have no idea on how to set up secondary plays, if plays break down. TBH, the quality of basketball has taken a nose dive in the last 10 years as whole. SOOO much has contributed to it and there is not one specific reason.

[bondom34]

I think there's a place for a pass first PG, but at this point in the NBA, they aren't as successful. Curry isn't really pass first, and at some point you need more than 1 guy who can score. OKC has Durant and really no other consistent firepower, which is what makes the fit better to me as well.

That is such a flawed statement its laughable. Put a prime Nash, Stockton, Magic, or any other great on a "current" NBA team and they would still destroy teams. Just 5 years ago, Nash in his late 30s was still carrying the suns. Pass first PG's hardly exist because most kids lack fundamentals. Westbrook is a great athlete and all but has a low IQ and lacks basic fundamentals. Its ALL about him on the court. In a sense, a modern day Iverson. Extremely athletic just doesnt quite grasp team concept. Nash made everyone around him look better (thats a fact and the excuse "really no other consistent firepower" didnt work with nash).

Do I think Westbrook is a fantastic one-one on player, yes. Do I think he can lead a team, no. Will he draw fans, yes. Will he lead teams (as the star player on he team) to championships, no!

On to Bledsoe. He cannot be considered "top tiered" until he gives 100% every game. You get 100% out of bledsoe one out of every 10 games (which is very annoying) and he can't be in the top 3 in the turnover category (No bueno). His shooting is below average for his position. Bledsoe in a nutshell= drive to the basketball, try for a layout, if too many players are in the lane, pass off in desperation, then fall to the ground. Bledsoe is clueless on how to set up teammates.

So how many pass first PGs have been successful lately? CP3 has been ousted early every year. Curry just won. Kyrie in the finals. Tony Parker is as much a scorer when he was in his prime as a passer. The last successful pass first PG was probably Nash 10 years ago, the game has changed. And I'd refute Westbrook has a low bball IQ and fundamentals, I have zero idea where that's from. And I don't know why he couldn't lead a team to a championship, he's gotten his team closer than CP3 has. And I'd guess you'd take Paul because he's such a brilliant player too.

The reality is WB led a team to the finals at a younger age than Paul ever even got out of the first round. So if you could explain why he couldn't lead a team to a title, please do, though I'm pretty sure you're gonna struggle there. Please name me these pass first PGs who have had this recent success. I've found 2 since 2000, Kidd and Rondo, and one of those 2 happened to have 3 hall of famers with him.

Edit: And did I miss something or has Westbrook actually made it as far in the postseason as either Stockton or Nash? So now you're going back to Magic in the 80s which might as well have been a different league.

[Sunsdeuce]

I think there's a place for a pass first PG, but at this point in the NBA, they aren't as successful. Curry isn't really pass first, and at some point you need more than 1 guy who can score. OKC has Durant and really no other consistent firepower, which is what makes the fit better to me as well.

That is such a flawed statement its laughable. Put a prime Nash, Stockton, Magic, or any other great on a "current" NBA team and they would still destroy teams. Just 5 years ago, Nash in his late 30s was still carrying the suns. Pass first PG's hardly exist because most kids lack fundamentals. Westbrook is a great athlete and all but has a low IQ and lacks basic fundamentals. Its ALL about him on the court. In a sense, a modern day Iverson. Extremely athletic just doesnt quite grasp team concept. Nash made everyone around him look better (thats a fact and the excuse "really no other consistent firepower" didnt work with nash).

Do I think Westbrook is a fantastic one-one on player, yes. Do I think he can lead a team, no. Will he draw fans, yes. Will he lead teams (as the star player on he team) to championships, no!

On to Bledsoe. He cannot be considered "top tiered" until he gives 100% every game. You get 100% out of bledsoe one out of every 10 games (which is very annoying) and he can't be in the top 3 in the turnover category (No bueno). His shooting is below average for his position. Bledsoe in a nutshell= drive to the basketball, try for a layout, if too many players are in the lane, pass off in desperation, then fall to the ground. Bledsoe is clueless on how to set up teammates.

So how many pass first PGs have been successful lately? CP3 has been ousted early every year.

1) Curry just won

. Kyrie in the finals.

2)Parker is as much a scorer when he was in his prime as a passer.

st successful pass first PG was probably Nash 10 years ago, the game has changed.

3) And I'd refute Westbrook has a low bball IQ and fundamentals, I have zero idea where that's from. And I don't know why he couldn't lead a team to a championship, he's gotten his team closer than CP3 has. And I'd guess you'd take Paul because he's such a brilliant player too.

The reality is

4)WB led a team to the finals at a younger age

than Paul ever even got out of the first round. So if you could explain why he couldn't lead a team to a title, please do, though I'm pretty sure you're gonna struggle there. Please name me these pass first PGs who have had this recent success. I've found 2 since 2000, Kidd and Rondo, and one of those 2 happened to have 3 hall of famers with him.

Edit: And did I miss something or has Westbrook actually made it as far in the postseason as either Stockton or Nash? So now you're going back to Magic in the 80s which might as well have been a different league.

1) Curry's team and just about half the western conference could have beaten the Cavs (with all the injuries) with the line-up they had in the finals.
2) Spurs=Duncan. Avery johnson was Duncan's PG at one point. Everyone looks good around duncan.
3) Westbrook is a ballhog. He shoots something like 20-30 shots a game. That is clearly not a trademark of a high IQ PG. And yes I would take a "healthy" Paul over Westbrook anyday. Westbook is what he is. I would never trust him to lead a team. He is a secondary player.
4) Westbrook didnt lead anyone to the finals. Some guy by the name of Durant. You know the guy from your favorite team.

[bondom34]

That is such a flawed statement its laughable. Put a prime Nash, Stockton, Magic, or any other great on a "current" NBA team and they would still destroy teams. Just 5 years ago, Nash in his late 30s was still carrying the suns. Pass first PG's hardly exist because most kids lack fundamentals. Westbrook is a great athlete and all but has a low IQ and lacks basic fundamentals. Its ALL about him on the court. In a sense, a modern day Iverson. Extremely athletic just doesnt quite grasp team concept. Nash made everyone around him look better (thats a fact and the excuse "really no other consistent firepower" didnt work with nash).

Do I think Westbrook is a fantastic one-one on player, yes. Do I think he can lead a team, no. Will he draw fans, yes. Will he lead teams (as the star player on he team) to championships, no!

On to Bledsoe. He cannot be considered "top tiered" until he gives 100% every game. You get 100% out of bledsoe one out of every 10 games (which is very annoying) and he can't be in the top 3 in the turnover category (No bueno). His shooting is below average for his position. Bledsoe in a nutshell= drive to the basketball, try for a layout, if too many players are in the lane, pass off in desperation, then fall to the ground. Bledsoe is clueless on how to set up teammates.

So how many pass first PGs have been successful lately? CP3 has been ousted early every year.

1) Curry just won

. Kyrie in the finals.

2)Parker is as much a scorer when he was in his prime as a passer.

st successful pass first PG was probably Nash 10 years ago, the game has changed.

3) And I'd refute Westbrook has a low bball IQ and fundamentals, I have zero idea where that's from. And I don't know why he couldn't lead a team to a championship, he's gotten his team closer than CP3 has. And I'd guess you'd take Paul because he's such a brilliant player too.

The reality is

4)WB led a team to the finals at a younger age

than Paul ever even got out of the first round. So if you could explain why he couldn't lead a team to a title, please do, though I'm pretty sure you're gonna struggle there. Please name me these pass first PGs who have had this recent success. I've found 2 since 2000, Kidd and Rondo, and one of those 2 happened to have 3 hall of famers with him.

Edit: And did I miss something or has Westbrook actually made it as far in the postseason as either Stockton or Nash? So now you're going back to Magic in the 80s which might as well have been a different league.

1) Curry's team and just about half the western conference could have beaten the Cavs (with all the injuries) with the line-up they had in the finals.
2) Spurs=Duncan. Avery johnson was Duncan's PG at one point. Everyone looks good around duncan.
3) Westbrook is a ballhog. He shoots something like 20-30 shots a game. That is clearly not a trademark of a high IQ PG. And yes I would take a "healthy" Paul over Westbrook anyday. Westbook is what he is. I would never trust him to lead a team. He is a secondary player.
4) Westbrook didnt lead anyone to the finals. Some guy by the name of Durant. You know the guy from your favorite team.

at ballhog. Alright I'm done, that's just flat wrong. He's a fantastic passer and the last ballhog I saw with a nearly 50 percent assist rate was.....well name em. You also managed to make up numbers too, well done! He actually shoots about 15-18ish shots a game when Durant is there. He had a greater effect on the offense than any other player in the league by RPM and BPM.

And your criteria for leading a team seems to shift:
Nash: Had Marion and Amare
Stockton: Malone
Magic: A few guys

But the all "led the team".

So yeah, Westbrook led his team as much as they did.

So you basically just shifted goalposts like mad, well done. You can take CP over Westbrook, and I'll take winning over losing. But feel free to move those goalposts a hair more.

[letsgosuns]

Is this a joke? Westbrook compared to Wall? Westbrook DESTROYS Wall. Westbrook did things last season that were on par with Michael Jordan stat lines. He is in the argument for best player in basketball, not just best point guard. I put him in the category with Lebron, Durant, Curry, and Harden. Wall is a really good point guard but Westbrook is on a different planet compared to him. It is not even close. I am shocked people are comparing the two.

[jcsunsfan]

Is this a joke? Westbrook compared to Wall? Westbrook DESTROYS Wall. Westbrook did things last season that were on par with Michael Jordan stat lines. He is in the argument for best player in basketball, not just best point guard. I put him in the category with Lebron, Durant, Curry, and Harden. Wall is a really good point guard but Westbrook is on a different planet compared to him. It is not even close. I am shocked people are comparing the two.

While I have no argument with the quality of Westbrook as a player (or Harden for that matter). I really struggle to think of them as pg's. They are combo guards at the very least and tend to be more 2's than 1's in my mind. But the whole NBA is going to that. I suppose if MJ were playing today, he would be considered a pg.

[Safety Pickle]

Just ignore Sunsdeuce. Pretty sure half the board has already

[Cutter]

Yeah, Westbrook taking 25-35-40 shots attempts per game is not ball hog territory.

[Twuan89]

Steve Nash

[NaturalBuns]

people gonna find out real quick how good Bledsoe is this year. Nobody saw dragic exploding it took a Bledsoe injury to see what dragic had. Bledsoe has a legit PNR center and more PG responabilities his numbers will go up.

He's just as good as wall if not very slightly worse. If you took wall off that roster last season and replaced him with Bledsoe they still make the playoffs in the east and probably still go just as far.

Throw any stat out the window Bledsoe always going to get shafted by a two PG system or back up PG. This upcoming season is made for him to increase numbers