ImageImageImage

The Official 2024 Offseason Thread

Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22

User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 93,996
And1: 57,722
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#741 » by bwgood77 » Fri May 10, 2024 9:54 pm

sunsbum wrote:Wet blanket checking in… bucks fans hated him the years leading up to the championship and wanted to get rid of him badly. Wins the chip, still fired a year later.


That's because they had the best record and lost in the playoffs twice. He took the same team Kidd coached to 44-38 to 60 wins...but losing to Kawhi and the Raptors who had been in the ECF a few years in a row without Kawhi.

Bledsoe was their 3rd best player. Lopez hadn't improved his 3pt shot a lot yet.

The next year they were crushing the league until Covid hit....then upon return got upset in the 2nd round by Miami....not that was bad. I remember Zach Lowe writing about how they were so far ahead of everyone pre Covid but just lost their mojo a bit after the 3 month break.

But they finally get rid of Bledsoe and add a solid 3rd best player in Jrue and a nice role player in Portis and beat us in the finals.

As we know, if a coach suddenly takes a team to a really great record, expectations are through the roof, and if they don't win it all, or lose a tough 6 game series in the finals or 7 game series in the semi finals, the fans hate the coach, even though the grass isn't greener as we've seen with Vogel, getting swept in the first round and looking terrible all year.

The Bucks have gotten worse post Bud as did the Hawks.
User avatar
thamadkant
Suns Forum Picker of Cherries
Posts: 16,198
And1: 7,804
Joined: Jan 06, 2007
 

Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#742 » by thamadkant » Fri May 10, 2024 9:56 pm

Saberestar wrote:
tester551 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:Anyone know exactly the rules for trading players in the second apron? I can't find the exact restrictions.

I know that we can't trade more than one player in one trade...but can we receive various players for that one?

And we need to match salaries...but the difference in salaries can be at most 10%?

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-second-apron-explained-salary-cap-team-spending/efo6htjzzmzrswoncvvlbmhi

First Apron Penalties:
  • Teams cannot acquire a player in a sign-and-trade if that player keeps them above the apron
  • Teams cannot sign a player waived during the regular season whose salary was over the $12.2 million midlevel exception
  • Salary matching in trades must be within 110 percent, rather than 125 percent for teams not above the apron


Second Apron Penalties:
  • All First Apron Penalties
  • No access to the $5 million taxpayer midlevel exception
  • Teams cannot use a trade exception generated by aggregating the salaries of multiple players
  • Teams cannot include cash in a trade
  • Teams cannot use a trade exception generated in a prior year
  • First-round picks seven years out are frozen (unable to be traded)
  • A team's first-round pick is moved to the end of the first round if they remain in the second apron for three out of five seasons


Based on this, teams should be able to trade 1 outgoing for 2-3 incoming players.

Thanks.

So we can receive various players for Nurkic. I have a tough time imagine him as our starting C under Budenholzer.

Wendell Carter Jr looks on paper a perfect fit and he is somewhat a realistic target, but salaries are difficult to match because he earns $12M. And they don't have fillers that could help on a potential trade.



Magic will not trade Carter Jr for Nurkic, it would take Beal... even then Magic would not want to part with their starting center
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 93,996
And1: 57,722
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#743 » by bwgood77 » Fri May 10, 2024 10:03 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
sunsbum wrote:Wet blanket checking in… bucks fans hated him the years leading up to the championship and wanted to get rid of him badly. Wins the chip, still fired a year later.


Yep. Bud is NOT as much of an offense-minded coach as he's being made out to be, he's actually a defense-oriented coach very much
in a similar archetype to Vogel. Basically, he's Vogel 2.0 with the only really noticeable difference being that Budenholzer has a more abrasive nature as in his players don't often like him much. And even an easygoing Giannis wanted him gone by the following season. Lastly, Everyone is lauding his 2021 championship as an indicator for being an elite championship coach, but really do you have to be anything more than a decent coach when you have a freaking prime-level Giannis and Jrue Holiday and depth? Sure they beat us handily, but if to be fair, who hasn't really beaten us in embarrassing fashion in the playoffs?? :lol:


He's both...Hawks....were 6th in offensive and defense https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2015.html

Bucks were 4th and 1st, then 8th and 1st, then 6th and 10th, then 3rd and 14th. https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIL/2019.html
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 93,996
And1: 57,722
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#744 » by bwgood77 » Fri May 10, 2024 10:11 pm

Saberestar wrote:So we can receive various players for Nurkic. I have a tough time imagine him as our starting C under Budenholzer.

Wendell Carter Jr looks on paper a perfect fit and he is somewhat a realistic target, but salaries are difficult to match because he earns $12M. And they don't have fillers that could help on a potential trade.


Looking for 3pt shooting Cs....I really cannot find as many as I thought I would be able too...best 3 pt shooters in order this season...

https://www.nba.com/stats/leaders?PerMode=Totals&StatCategory=FG3_PCT

I thought about Al Horford..he's coached him before but he's old. They'd have to give us someone like Pritchard too and I think someone else...a minimum guy or something. They could use a backup for KP but I don't see it.
Frank Lee
RealGM
Posts: 13,792
And1: 9,316
Joined: Nov 07, 2006

Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#745 » by Frank Lee » Fri May 10, 2024 10:21 pm

Saberestar wrote:Anyone know exactly the rules for trading players in the second apron? I can't find the exact restrictions.

I know that we can't trade more than one player in one trade...but can we receive various players for that one?

And we need to match salaries...but the difference in salaries can be at most 10%?


So you are finally starting to look at that shtt now huh? May be if you were not so ‘scoffy’ and read some of the many posts made about the near impossible ways to improve this line up….?!?!?

Thats the oncoming dark cloud that will devour your GD sunshiney ways. Truly.


Image
What ? Me Worry ?
Frank Lee
RealGM
Posts: 13,792
And1: 9,316
Joined: Nov 07, 2006

Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#746 » by Frank Lee » Fri May 10, 2024 10:30 pm

And stop with the Nurk swapping Ghost…. Sheesh… he is worth more to us than anyone. I get it… we have but two players and a pick to trade…. But Thats the made bed.

Let Pinocchio rummage through the Scrap piles once again. Seemed like he didnt do too bad last yr…. Till the season started.

Gawd im sour about this squad
What ? Me Worry ?
User avatar
Qwigglez
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 20,774
And1: 13,845
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
Contact:
     

Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#747 » by Qwigglez » Fri May 10, 2024 10:31 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=jSaGPgod7zr7JpdCFO6lvw

Official
User avatar
sunsbum
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,160
And1: 4,803
Joined: May 16, 2007
Location: Portland
     

Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#748 » by sunsbum » Fri May 10, 2024 10:34 pm

Qwigglez wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=jSaGPgod7zr7JpdCFO6lvw

Official
Dude, the **** is this guys problem. Ishbia give me some cash bro.
I hate this team.
dremill24
Analyst
Posts: 3,179
And1: 2,444
Joined: Jan 11, 2016

Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#749 » by dremill24 » Fri May 10, 2024 10:43 pm

Spoiler:
tester551 wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
tester551 wrote:https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-second-apron-explained-salary-cap-team-spending/efo6htjzzmzrswoncvvlbmhi

First Apron Penalties:


Second Apron Penalties:


Based on this, teams should be able to trade 1 outgoing for 2-3 incoming players.

How does the draft thing work if your don't own your own picks?

I'm not sure anyone has reported anything 'official' there. That situation may still be TBD.

I would guess that it still gets moved to the end of the first round - and that is part of the calculus that the team receiving the picks would have to make in valuing them. It would also destroy any 'perceived' value a pick swap would have.

In theory, Suns '27 pick that Brooklyn owns could be moved to end of 1st round - as well as the swaps in '26 & '28.

Suns will have completed the 3rd season above the 2nd apron. ('23-'24, '24-'25, & '25-'26 seasons)
The '29 pick could be in jeopardy too.


This brings up a question though... If there are 3-4 teams who are being penalized my moving the picks to the end of the first - how do they sort those picks? By record? Coin flips? Whomever has met the criteria longest?
It will be interesting to see how this gets implemented.


viewtopic.php?p=112918367#p112918367
TeamTragic
General Manager
Posts: 7,898
And1: 6,036
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
 

Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#750 » by TeamTragic » Fri May 10, 2024 10:44 pm

Bud will be our coach when we have cap space and clearly this move is about the future.

Now hire a proper GM and let JJ/Fizdale handle player relationships.
User avatar
Qwigglez
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 20,774
And1: 13,845
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
Contact:
     

Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#751 » by Qwigglez » Fri May 10, 2024 10:47 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=jSaGPgod7zr7JpdCFO6lvw
:lol:
User avatar
Qwigglez
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 20,774
And1: 13,845
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
Contact:
     

Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#752 » by Qwigglez » Fri May 10, 2024 10:48 pm

With Jrue not having a stellar season, if the Celtics get knocked in the semis, would the Suns, Beal, and or Celtics consider…
Beal for Jrue Holiday and Al Horford.
Bud has familiarity with both Jrue and Horford.

Read on Twitter
Saberestar
RealGM
Posts: 19,984
And1: 14,989
Joined: May 21, 2010

Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#753 » by Saberestar » Fri May 10, 2024 10:53 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:So we can receive various players for Nurkic. I have a tough time imagine him as our starting C under Budenholzer.

Wendell Carter Jr looks on paper a perfect fit and he is somewhat a realistic target, but salaries are difficult to match because he earns $12M. And they don't have fillers that could help on a potential trade.


Looking for 3pt shooting Cs....I really cannot find as many as I thought I would be able too...best 3 pt shooters in order this season...

https://www.nba.com/stats/leaders?PerMode=Totals&StatCategory=FG3_PCT

I thought about Al Horford..he's coached him before but he's old. They'd have to give us someone like Pritchard too and I think someone else...a minimum guy or something. They could use a backup for KP but I don't see it.

Yeah, I like Horford but I doubt the Celtics trade him. He is their perfect backup (who can occasionally start) at 4/5.

A couple interesting and under the radar names on that list:

Trey Lyles ($8M, expiring). 384.%
Duop Reath ($2M per, 3 years). 359%

And a cheap option as a FA would be Kevin Love but he has a PO for next year ($4M).
User avatar
Ghost of Kleine
Master of Tweets
Posts: 12,577
And1: 6,877
Joined: Apr 13, 2012

Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#754 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri May 10, 2024 11:10 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:So we can receive various players for Nurkic. I have a tough time imagine him as our starting C under Budenholzer.

Wendell Carter Jr looks on paper a perfect fit and he is somewhat a realistic target, but salaries are difficult to match because he earns $12M. And they don't have fillers that could help on a potential trade.


Looking for 3pt shooting Cs....I really cannot find as many as I thought I would be able too...best 3 pt shooters in order this season...

https://www.nba.com/stats/leaders?PerMode=Totals&StatCategory=FG3_PCT

I thought about Al Horford..he's coached him before but he's old. They'd have to give us someone like Pritchard too and I think someone else...a minimum guy or something. They could use a backup for KP but I don't see it.


Maybe not centers, but from the scrap heap currently unsigned players pool, there are names like Mike Muscala, Davis Bertans, Joey Hauser, John Butler, Matthew Mayer, Makur Maker (6'11 PG/Center) maybe one of Dario Saric, Meyers Leonard, or "Frank the Tank" Kaminsky?
Image
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 93,996
And1: 57,722
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#755 » by bwgood77 » Fri May 10, 2024 11:14 pm

Qwigglez wrote:With Jrue not having a stellar season, if the Celtics get knocked in the semis, would the Suns, Beal, and or Celtics consider…
Beal for Jrue Holiday and Al Horford.
Bud has familiarity with both Jrue and Horford.

Read on Twitter


So because a guy is NOT doing well you want to trade for him? If he put up those stats here, I can't imagine what people would say considering what they say about Beal who was 6th in 3pt shooting.

However, with his defense and age along with Horford's age they would fit right in, at 34 and 38.

It's actually a fairly solid trade. We would just have really really old players for the foreseeable future. Jrue does make about $35 million a year for the next 4 years, where he will be between 34-37. Horford is expiring next year. Maybe a team over the cap gives us someone but probably no one good unless we attach a pick...and he only makes $9.5 million so you won't find a good player who makes that.
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 93,996
And1: 57,722
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#756 » by bwgood77 » Fri May 10, 2024 11:15 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:So we can receive various players for Nurkic. I have a tough time imagine him as our starting C under Budenholzer.

Wendell Carter Jr looks on paper a perfect fit and he is somewhat a realistic target, but salaries are difficult to match because he earns $12M. And they don't have fillers that could help on a potential trade.


Looking for 3pt shooting Cs....I really cannot find as many as I thought I would be able too...best 3 pt shooters in order this season...

https://www.nba.com/stats/leaders?PerMode=Totals&StatCategory=FG3_PCT

I thought about Al Horford..he's coached him before but he's old. They'd have to give us someone like Pritchard too and I think someone else...a minimum guy or something. They could use a backup for KP but I don't see it.


Maybe not centers, but from the scrap heap currently unsigned players pool, there are names like Mike Muscala, Davis Bertans, Joey Hauser, John Butler, Matthew Mayer, Makur Maker (6'11 PG/Center) maybe one of Dario Saric, Meyers Leonard, or "Frank the Tank" Kaminsky?


I'd 500% rather start Bol Bol than any of those guys.
User avatar
Ghost of Kleine
Master of Tweets
Posts: 12,577
And1: 6,877
Joined: Apr 13, 2012

Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#757 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri May 10, 2024 11:19 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
sunsbum wrote:Wet blanket checking in… bucks fans hated him the years leading up to the championship and wanted to get rid of him badly. Wins the chip, still fired a year later.


Yep. Bud is NOT as much of an offense-minded coach as he's being made out to be, he's actually a defense-oriented coach very much
in a similar archetype to Vogel. Basically, he's Vogel 2.0 with the only really noticeable difference being that Budenholzer has a more abrasive nature as in his players don't often like him much. And even an easygoing Giannis wanted him gone by the following season. Lastly, Everyone is lauding his 2021 championship as an indicator for being an elite championship coach, but really do you have to be anything more than a decent coach when you have a freaking prime-level Giannis and Jrue Holiday and depth? Sure they beat us handily, but if to be fair, who hasn't really beaten us in embarrassing fashion in the playoffs?? :lol:


He's both...Hawks....were 6th in offensive and defense https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2015.html

Bucks were 4th and 1st, then 8th and 1st, then 6th and 10th, then 3rd and 14th. https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIL/2019.html


Yeah, But honestly how much of those ratings could be attributed to the type of players he had on both of those teams? as well as the depth overall too. Our rosters and depth are of course drastically different than what he had with those teams. I mean sure, we have much better elite talent (at least on paper). But we have far less depth and physical, scrappy defensive players like he had with the Hawks, and for less size, athleticism, and polished two-way bigs or frontcourt size compared to what he obviously had with Milwaukee.
Image
Frank Lee
RealGM
Posts: 13,792
And1: 9,316
Joined: Nov 07, 2006

Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#758 » by Frank Lee » Fri May 10, 2024 11:25 pm

Jeezus Ghost…. There you go again…. The SHANK…???


You trolling me? :wink:

There is one thing consistent… the Scrap pile of minimum wagers is mighty slim. Gotta go young and hope you find the needle
What ? Me Worry ?
BurningHeart
General Manager
Posts: 9,631
And1: 1,487
Joined: Jun 02, 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#759 » by BurningHeart » Fri May 10, 2024 11:31 pm

Yeah I'm sure the team will finally work out this time.
User avatar
Ghost of Kleine
Master of Tweets
Posts: 12,577
And1: 6,877
Joined: Apr 13, 2012

Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread 

Post#760 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri May 10, 2024 11:31 pm

Frank Lee wrote:Jeezus Ghost…. There you go again…. The SHANK…???


You trolling me? :wink:

There is one thing consistent… the Scrap pile of minimum wagers is mighty slim. Gotta go young and hope you find the needle

That'd for sure be my preference too, But I listed these names only because of the likelihood that Ishbia won't even consider the draft aside from maybe trading out of it for a vet-level big and defensive wing. And then tout how they got back a couple of 2nds around 2047 back # F the future, we're winning now! even if all they really end up winning is a higher lottery pick for the teams holding our picks....LOL and I mentioned the "shank" and even Saric because since we're going to be a hopeless clown show laughingstock team, might as well add those two back in a "double down" move on mediocrity! :lol:
Image

Return to Phoenix Suns