DragonFyre (what a sexy couple)

[Revived]

We should have sent a link of this thread to the Lakers, they seemed to not care about Frye much at all...

[Wannabe MEP]

Dragic + Frye? Elite offense, moderate defensively -- requires combo with elite defenders.
Bledsoe + Tucker? Elite defense, moderate offensively.

Dragic + Frye + Bledsoe + Tucker? Since these four reunited after Bledsoe returned, they are the top four-man combo in the league, at +24.1.

[JTrain]

112.5 OffRtg -- LeBron-Bosh . . . . . $38.2 million
112.0 OffRtg -- CP3-Griffin . . . . . . . $35.1 million
111.9 OffRtg -- DragonFyre . . . . . . . $13.9 million
109.9 OffRtg -- Durant-Westbrook . . $32.5 million
109.9 OffRtg -- Harden-Dwight . . . . . $34.2 million

Impressive. What site are you getting these from?

[Wannabe MEP]

112.5 OffRtg -- LeBron-Bosh . . . . . $38.2 million
112.0 OffRtg -- CP3-Griffin . . . . . . . $35.1 million
111.9 OffRtg -- DragonFyre . . . . . . . $13.9 million
109.9 OffRtg -- Durant-Westbrook . . $32.5 million
109.9 OffRtg -- Harden-Dwight . . . . . $34.2 million

Impressive. What site are you getting these from?

stats.nba.com has a ton of great info now. I use the lineup data (http://stats.nba.com/leagueLineups.html) all the time, especially with Advanced selected.

You've really got to filter/sort to make sense of all that data -- there are lots and lots of ways to do that.

Here's an example -- 5-man lineups, Advanced, since Jan. 1, 2014, minimum 100 minutes, sorted by DefRtg:

http://stats.nba.com/leagueLineups.html ... F01%2F2014

1) Parker-Green-Leonard-Duncan-Splitter
2) Bledsoe-Dragic-Tucker-Frye-Plumlee

[bigfoot]

Yes the Frye haters need to look at this list too (link below). The net rating (offensive rating - defensive rating) of the Dragic/Bledsoe/Tucker/Frye/Plumlee lineup is the fourth best in the league since January 1st. Well Eric Bledsoe was injured in late December. So these stats represent how well the team has been playing since Bledsoe returned from injury. During that time Frye's boxscore numbers have been sub-standard yet that 5-man lineup is excelling.

http://stats.nba.com/leagueLineups.html ... F01%2F2014

So now let's look at the best five man lineup since Eric Blesode's return on March 11th.

http://stats.nba.com/leagueLineups.html ... F10%2F2014

That same lineup has been the best five man rotation in the league since mid-March. The Suns have gone 10-4 or .715 since that time. Not saying Frye is a superstar but he is adding something to the mix. We just aren't seeing it show up in the boxscore.

[Goon]

Some great posts Los Soles. Thank you sir, great read.

[Wannabe MEP]

I'm still not sure people are understanding this: as of February 28, DragonFyre was the BEST pick-and-roll combo in the NBA, scoring 1.30 points-per-possession. (I don't know where to find more recent data on this -- it's probably not public.)

That's better than, for example...

Westbrook-Durant 1.25
LeBron-Bosh 1.20
Lillard-Aldridge 1.19
Ellis-Nowitzki 1.11
Lin-Howard 1.09
Durant-Ibaka 1.01
Wade-Bosh 0.93

Dragic also leads the league individually with 1.16 ppp as the ball-handler of a pick-and-roll -- note the drop-off when he's not paired with Frye. Specifically, Dragic-Plumlee scores 1.03 ppp.

Why? Dragic is particularly effective attacking the rim. If he can find a lane to the rim, he's going to take it. Then with his crafty moves, he finishes well and draws fouls. He's particularly good at embarrassing bigs that switch onto him. Bledsoe is similar. Other pick-and-roll guards don't do this nearly as often (e.g. Nash, CP3). Nash was more effective with a pick-and-roll man. Dragic is more effective with a pick-and-pop man.

Someone recently brought up Griffin vs Frye. Think about this: Dragic-Frye has been more effective on pick-and-rolls than CP3-Griffin.

It makes sense when you think about it this way: after a CP3-Griffin pick-and-roll, there are 2 Clippers bigs within a few feet of the rim, which also means there are 2 defensive bigs as well. If CP3 tries to attack the rim, that puts 6 people within a few feet of the rim. Unless there's a defensive breakdown, attacking the rim is basically not an option for CP3. Therefore…he doesn't attack the rim on those plays:

% of shots within 3 ft of the rim in 2013-2014
12.3% Chris Paul
35.1% Goran Dragic

Which means a disproportionate % of the CP3-Griffin pick-and-roll possessions end in long 2s by Paul. He's pretty good at those…but they're still lower-percentage shots. A Dragic-Frye pick-and-roll is much more likely to end in a Dragic shot at the rim, a foul, or a 3. In the same way, 36.6% of Bledsoe's shots are <3ft, vs 10.5% of Jamal Crawford's.

If you were to swap Frye for someone like Griffin, you're asking Dragic and Bledsoe to fundamentally change what's been working for them this year (ya know, Slash Brothers). You're asking them to attack the rim less and shoot pull-up long 2s more.

0 stretch bigs (e.g., Scola-Gortat frontcourt): 6 people in the paint when Dragic attacks the rim.
1 stretch big (e.g., Frye-Plumlee frontcourt): 4 people in the paint when Dragic attacks the rim.
2 stretch bigs (e.g., Dudley-Frye frontcourt): 2 people in the paint when Dragic attacks the rim.

Which style do you suppose Dragic has had the least success with over his career? Conversely, which style led to this:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLWjQ7nZTkI[/youtube]