What is your favorite Suns Era?

[Zelaznyrules]

Their bad record without Nash is mainly about the complete lack of a good back-up PG. Marcus Banks? Give me a break.

D'Antoni's system is perfect for any PG who is good at running pick-and-rolls and in transition because that's what the offense is all about.

Kendall Marshall averaged 9 assists per game under D'Antoni playing on a terrible team. Ray Felton looked really good playing under MDA in New York during Amare's first season with the Knicks.

Nash was NEVER an MVP candidate in Dallas.

Marbury led the 2003 Suns to the playoffs where they pushed the eventual champions to 6 games...this is against Duncan at his VERY best.

That's with rookie Amare and Marion and no Joe Johnson.

Look at how mediocre Nash was under Porter...he made it no secret that he was frustrated.

I feel very strongly that Shaq deserved the 2005 MVP, still.

Nash finishing his career with more MVP's than the likes of Shaq, Wade, etc. just doesn't feel right.

It's a regular season award and Nash has had a better regular season career than Wade so I have no problem there. And while Shaq missed fewer games than usual he still sat out 10% of them and that has to be considered. Also, he coasted on defense much more than usual. I actually agree that Nash wasn't the best player in the game that year but that label belonged to the Colorado Snake. Kobe played in more games than Shaq and he had a higher PER. The only reason he was ignored was because of his off field problem. Once he's removed from serious consideration, Nash is as good of a candidate as anyone.

[Sunsdeuce]

Got go with the Barkley era and it's not even close. I know some of you are too young to remember or were not born but it was absolutely crazy in phx in the early 90s. You couldn't go 10 feet without seeing something with a suns logo or Barkley's face on some poster, billboard, bus, or anything else.

America west arena (at the time) was insanely loud. At no point did the arena get half as loud in the Nash era as it did in the Barkley era. The whole city of phx rallied around the suns back in the 90s. After Barkley left the excitement level never reached the heights it saw during the Barkley years. Barkley was near god level. Majerle had his own candy bar. People were naming their pets after suns players. We even threw a parade when the suns lost in the finals. That's how devoted the city of phx was to the suns back then.

While the 92 team was my favorite all time team, the 94 team was epically great. Unfortunately it took a Joe Kleine to destroy that year when he took out Manning's knee. The suns were 33-8 before manning got hurt. Before manning hurt his knee, the suns were destroying everyone on an epic scale.

The 2000s were fun and all but they were never as great as the early 90s teams. The city of phx never got close to embracing the suns in the 2000s as they did in the 90s.

The 1990s is regarded as one of the greatest eras of basketball altogether.


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[DirtyDez]

Their bad record without Nash is mainly about the complete lack of a good back-up PG. Marcus Banks? Give me a break.

D'Antoni's system is perfect for any PG who is good at running pick-and-rolls and in transition because that's what the offense is all about.

Kendall Marshall averaged 9 assists per game under D'Antoni playing on a terrible team. Ray Felton looked really good playing under MDA in New York during Amare's first season with the Knicks.

Nash was NEVER an MVP candidate in Dallas.

Marbury led the 2003 Suns to the playoffs where they pushed the eventual champions to 6 games...this is against Duncan at his VERY best.

That's with rookie Amare and Marion and no Joe Johnson.

Look at how mediocre Nash was under Porter...he made it no secret that he was frustrated.

I feel very strongly that Shaq deserved the 2005 MVP, still.

Nash finishing his career with more MVP's than the likes of Shaq, Wade, etc. just doesn't feel right.

It's a regular season award and Nash has had a better regular season career than Wade so I have no problem there. And while Shaq missed fewer games than usual he still sat out 10% of them and that has to be considered. Also, he coasted on defense much more than usual. I actually agree that Nash wasn't the best player in the game that year but that label belonged to the Colorado Snake. Kobe played in more games than Shaq and he had a higher PER. The only reason he was ignored was because of his off field problem. Once he's removed from serious consideration, Nash is as good of a candidate as anyone.

In 2006 Wade put up scoring and efficiency numbers from a SG that we hadn't seen since Jordan while finishing top-5 in steals as well. Even if you disregard his legendary postseason he was still the best player in the league by a significant margain IMO.

[LukasBMW]

92-93 run was just epic. Too much good stuff. Lots of buzzer beaters, our best franchise record, Barkley's MVP, and almost taking down the best player of all time in his prime for the trophy.

04-05 was fantastic, but not quite as great as 92-93.

[letsgosuns]

The Barkley era Suns were far superior than the Nash era Suns because they were real contenders while the Nash era teams were truly just all flash. Do not get me wrong, I went to many Suns games from 04-08 and they were some of the most exciting and fulfilling basketball games I have ever been to. But I knew from the moment Mike D'antoni wanted Amare starting at center for the team, they would never win the title because small ball teams with zero defense never win. Not to mention but he did not teach defense and did not play a bench.

The Barkley era Suns should have won at least one championship, they just choked in the 94 and 95 postseasons. Flat out choked. I remember being at one of the games they lost at home against the Rockets in 95 and could not believe it. They were up 3-1 in the series and should have won. The Nash era teams never choked, they were just always beaten by better teams. You can say what you want about injuries and bad luck, but they always lost. They never even made the finals. In fact, they never even won more than two WCF games.

Like Sunsdeuce said, the Barkley era Suns OWNED the city of Phoenix's sports scene. There was no Diamondbacks baseball team, the Cardinals were a horrendous organization, and the Coyotes did not come to Phoenix until 1996. It was all basketball and the city was behind them 100%. The Suns still have not had anyone on the team like Barkley since he left. That team was a true championship contender. I never felt the Nash era Suns were a real championship contender, as sad as that sounds.

Plus again, as Sunsdeuce said, the 1990's era of basketball is the best I have ever seen as a whole in the NBA. The 1990's teams were incredible and those teams would annihilate today's NBA. I mean it would be like watching the USA basketball team beat up on the teams they are playing now in the exhibition games. That is how much better the 90's era was. There are some fouls today that are called flagrant two fouls that would just be common fouls in the 90's. The players were so much tougher back then and the league allowed far more contact.

So overall, I would take the Barkley era Suns any day of the week over the Nash era Suns. Those teams had it all. The 1993 bench could have been some teams starting lineups. That is how good they were. There is no comparison between what Barkley did for the city of Phoenix sports to what anybody has done since him, even Nash.

[BurningHeart]

Ya bro, they were never going to win the title. They were just going to push the eventual 2005 champions to the limit in the closest five game series of all-time in the Western Finals without Joe Johnson who broke his face in the series before, go to Game 6 of the Western Finals in 2006 with like 7 players because we didn't have Amare Stoudemire, Kurt Thomas, and for a while, Raja Bell, and have the best team in the league in 2007 get cut short in the real NBA Finals that year due to Tony Parker's forehead, Robert Horry, and oh by the way, a convicted felon refereeing one of the most corrupt games in sports history.

Yeah. There's those Suns. Good enough to do all that but not win a title. Must have been because of their style of play and their coach, bro. Nevermind that their style of play and their coach is what put them in the position to even do that much. How you can say you never felt they were championship contenders leaves me wondering if you even saw anything outside of the final score of the games in those series.

Like it or not, circumstances *do* matter in sports. And more than style of play and more than talent and more than coaching, they are most likely to determine any team's ultimate fate in any given sport in any given game in any given series in any given year.

Stupid.

[letsgosuns]

Ya bro, they were never going to win the title. They were just going to push the eventual 2005 champions to the limit in the closest five game series of all-time in the Western Finals without Joe Johnson who broke his face in the series before, go to Game 6 of the Western Finals in 2006 with like 7 players because we didn't have Amare Stoudemire, Kurt Thomas, and for a while, Raja Bell, and have the best team in the league in 2007 get cut short in the real NBA Finals that year due to Tony Parker's forehead, Robert Horry, and oh by the way, a convicted felon refereeing one of the most corrupt games in sports history.

Yeah. There's those Suns. Good enough to do all that but not win a title. Must have been because of their style of play and their coach, bro. Nevermind that their style of play and their coach is what put them in the position to even do that much. How you can say you never felt they were championship contenders leaves me wondering if you even saw anything outside of the final score of the games in those series.

Like it or not, circumstances *do* matter in sports. And more than style of play and more than talent and more than coaching, they are most likely to determine any team's ultimate fate in any given sport in any given game in any given series in any given year.

Stupid.

I am just going to disagree with you. I went to over 30 games between 04-07 and sat very close to the floor and only missed watching maybe a handful of games over a several year period. I was obsessed with that team. And everything you said about them is kind of pointless, no offense. Closest five game series ever? Think about what you saying. The Suns only won one game that whole series in 2005. I was at game 2 of that series and watched the Spurs carve up the Suns defense in the fourth quarter when it mattered most. Who cares about how close a series is if you do not win. Then in 2006, did you ever happen to think about how pathetic it was in the first place the Suns had to go seven games against the Lakers in 2006? A team that started Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton pushed the Suns to seven games.

The Barkley Suns at least made the finals and only lost because they played against Michael Jordan, the greatest player of all time hands down no questions asked. They did not lose because Ceballos got injured against the Sonics. They lost because the Bulls were the best.

Pushing the eventual champion Spurs to some tough series'? Give me a break. Whatever. It was not the Suns style of play that was the problem, it was that the Spurs were the better team. You can win with run n' gun if you play defense and the Nash Suns did not. I think the Suns might have had the most talent, but the Spurs were superior in everything else including defense, coaching, and depth. The Suns were never close to a top ten defensive team in the league under D'antoni. The closest was 13th best in 2007. The 1993 team was the 9th best defense and the number one offense in the league. Hence they made the finals.

Oh and about your circumstances point, go ahead and tell that to the Lakers who still won the championship in six games without Kareem Abdul-Jabbar playing game 6 in Philadelphia in 1980. Or Michael Jordan coming through despite having the flu in game 5 of the 1997 finals. Or any other team that ever won it all missing key players or players playing injured.

Sometimes things happen with players and your other players have to step up. That is the point. All of these so-called circumstances are just things that people say when their favorite team loses. Byung-hyun Kim blew two games in a row in the World Series and I do not remember the Diamondbacks complaining about it. They came back and won two games in spite of that and became the champions. Champions find a way. Those Suns did team not, unfortunately.

[BurningHeart]

Ya bro, they were never going to win the title. They were just going to push the eventual 2005 champions to the limit in the closest five game series of all-time in the Western Finals without Joe Johnson who broke his face in the series before, go to Game 6 of the Western Finals in 2006 with like 7 players because we didn't have Amare Stoudemire, Kurt Thomas, and for a while, Raja Bell, and have the best team in the league in 2007 get cut short in the real NBA Finals that year due to Tony Parker's forehead, Robert Horry, and oh by the way, a convicted felon refereeing one of the most corrupt games in sports history.

Yeah. There's those Suns. Good enough to do all that but not win a title. Must have been because of their style of play and their coach, bro. Nevermind that their style of play and their coach is what put them in the position to even do that much. How you can say you never felt they were championship contenders leaves me wondering if you even saw anything outside of the final score of the games in those series.

Like it or not, circumstances *do* matter in sports. And more than style of play and more than talent and more than coaching, they are most likely to determine any team's ultimate fate in any given sport in any given game in any given series in any given year.

Stupid.

I am just going to disagree with you. I went to over 30 games between 04-07 and sat very close to the floor and only missed watching maybe a handful of games over a several year period. I was obsessed with that team. And everything you said about them is kind of pointless, no offense. Closest five game series ever? Think about what you saying. The Suns only won one game that whole series in 2005. I was at game 2 of that series and watched the Spurs carve up the Suns defense in the fourth quarter when it mattered most. Who cares about how close a series is if you do not win. Then in 2006, did you ever happen to think about how pathetic it was in the first place the Suns had to go seven games against the Lakers in 2006? A team that started Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton pushed the Suns to seven games.

The Barkley Suns at least made the finals and only lost because they played against Michael Jordan, the greatest player of all time hands down no questions asked. They did not lose because Ceballos got injured against the Sonics. They lost because the Bulls were the best.

Pushing the eventual champion Spurs to some tough series'? Give me a break. Whatever. It was not the Suns style of play that was the problem, it was that the Spurs were the better team. You can win with run n' gun if you play defense and the Nash Suns did not. I think the Suns might have had the most talent, but the Spurs were superior in everything else including defense, coaching, and depth. The Suns were never close to a top ten defensive team in the league under D'antoni. The closest was 13th best in 2007. The 1993 team was the 9th best defense and the number one offense in the league. Hence they made the finals.

My overall point is that determining what a team can do based on style of play is **** stupid because circumstances influence outcomes. What happened if Barkley didn't hit the shot against San Antonio and we went on to lose that game AND Game 7? And it wasn't pathetic that we lost both games at home against the Lakers and had to win three straight against an eighth seed team just to get out of the first round? And all the other things that went right or wrong throughout those or any playoffs for ours or any team?

In 1993, the Suns were 17th in opponents FG% and opponents eFG%. In 2007, the Suns were 12th in opponents FG% and opponents eFG%.

Wanna know the difference between 1993 and the 2007 Suns? The 1993 Suns were 6th in the league in defensive rebound %, which measures "an estimate of the percentage of available defensive rebounds a player grabbed while he was on the floor." The 2007 Suns? 20th.

Gee, I wonder why the Suns were better at rebounding in 1993 compared to 2007.

And if you wanna compare defensive ratings, sure, go ahead. The 1993 Suns were 9th, at 106.7 points allowed per 100 possessions. The 2007 Suns were 13th, at 106.4 points allowed per 100 possessions. Oooh, big difference.

Defense was never the problem of the SSOL Suns. Rebounding was, and consequently, so was giving up second chance points to opponents. As soon as people begin to understand that, we can finally stop hearing the same old tired and untrue, regurgitated garbage narratives about D'Antoni and the "Suns defense" and all that other crap.

Your view of what constitutes a "champion" is so simplistic. Yeah the Diamondbacks overcame two blown saves. Maybe because they had Curt **** Schilling and Randy **** Johnson. You can't *always* overcome negative circumstances. The Kings had an entire playoff game stolen from them via corrupted officiating. Had they won that game they would have become champions because they would have annihilated the Nets. Yes, the circumstances dictated what happened. What exactly were the Kings supposed to do that night? Just OVERCOME Dick Bavetta and his merry band of criminals? You can say "oh, just overcome it" but you know what? It's not always that easy. "Champions find a way" is such cliched garbage. **** reffing happen. Injuries happen. Sometimes----often times-----they dictate the outcome of a sporting event. It's not *always* about what one team does or doesn't do. It's not *always* about one team's style of play versus another team's style of play. It's not *always* about one team's talent versus another team's talent.

Somewhere along the way sports got romanticized into this magical fairytale where teams and players should just overcome things and that refs are never corrupt or terrible and that injuries to star players don't matter and all that other trite garbage and that we can never admit it or blame it on those things. Were the Suns just supposed to magically overcome losing their second best player for 30+ games last year and make the playoffs anyway after a fairytale season anyway? Is it inaccurate to say that they would have very likely made the playoffs had Bledsoe only been out for 20 games? Should the Bulls have just continued to be the second best team in the East even without their star player and one of the best players in the league for two years? Should the Mavericks have just "won anyway" after Dwyane Wade got to shoot 250 free throws in the 2006 NBA Finals? Should the Seattle Seahawks have just "overcome adversity" after being screwed repeatedly in the Super Bowl XL?

For the most recent example, you try telling the 2014 Texas Rangers that circumstances don't matter.

Not only does **** happen-----it matters.

[letsgosuns]

Ya bro, they were never going to win the title. They were just going to push the eventual 2005 champions to the limit in the closest five game series of all-time in the Western Finals without Joe Johnson who broke his face in the series before, go to Game 6 of the Western Finals in 2006 with like 7 players because we didn't have Amare Stoudemire, Kurt Thomas, and for a while, Raja Bell, and have the best team in the league in 2007 get cut short in the real NBA Finals that year due to Tony Parker's forehead, Robert Horry, and oh by the way, a convicted felon refereeing one of the most corrupt games in sports history.

Yeah. There's those Suns. Good enough to do all that but not win a title. Must have been because of their style of play and their coach, bro. Nevermind that their style of play and their coach is what put them in the position to even do that much. How you can say you never felt they were championship contenders leaves me wondering if you even saw anything outside of the final score of the games in those series.

Like it or not, circumstances *do* matter in sports. And more than style of play and more than talent and more than coaching, they are most likely to determine any team's ultimate fate in any given sport in any given game in any given series in any given year.

Stupid.

I am just going to disagree with you. I went to over 30 games between 04-07 and sat very close to the floor and only missed watching maybe a handful of games over a several year period. I was obsessed with that team. And everything you said about them is kind of pointless, no offense. Closest five game series ever? Think about what you saying. The Suns only won one game that whole series in 2005. I was at game 2 of that series and watched the Spurs carve up the Suns defense in the fourth quarter when it mattered most. Who cares about how close a series is if you do not win. Then in 2006, did you ever happen to think about how pathetic it was in the first place the Suns had to go seven games against the Lakers in 2006? A team that started Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton pushed the Suns to seven games.

The Barkley Suns at least made the finals and only lost because they played against Michael Jordan, the greatest player of all time hands down no questions asked. They did not lose because Ceballos got injured against the Sonics. They lost because the Bulls were the best.

Pushing the eventual champion Spurs to some tough series'? Give me a break. Whatever. It was not the Suns style of play that was the problem, it was that the Spurs were the better team. You can win with run n' gun if you play defense and the Nash Suns did not. I think the Suns might have had the most talent, but the Spurs were superior in everything else including defense, coaching, and depth. The Suns were never close to a top ten defensive team in the league under D'antoni. The closest was 13th best in 2007. The 1993 team was the 9th best defense and the number one offense in the league. Hence they made the finals.

My overall point is that determining what a team can do based on style of play is **** stupid because circumstances influence outcomes. What happened if Barkley didn't hit the shot against San Antonio and we went on to lose that game AND Game 7? And it wasn't pathetic that we lost both games at home against the Lakers and had to win three straight against an eighth seed team just to get out of the first round? And all the other things that went right or wrong throughout those or any playoffs for ours or any team?

In 1993, the Suns were 17th in opponents FG% and opponents eFG%. In 2007, the Suns were 12th in opponents FG% and opponents eFG%.

Wanna know the difference between 1993 and the 2007 Suns? The 1993 Suns were 6th in the league in defensive rebound %, which measures "an estimate of the percentage of available defensive rebounds a player grabbed while he was on the floor." The 2007 Suns? 20th.

Gee, I wonder why the Suns were better at rebounding in 1993 compared to 2007.

And if you wanna compare defensive ratings, sure, go ahead. The 1993 Suns were 9th, at 106.7 points allowed per 100 possessions. The 2007 Suns were 13th, at 106.4 points allowed per 100 possessions. Oooh, big difference.

Defense was never the problem of the SSOL Suns. Rebounding was, and consequently, so was giving up second chance points to opponents. As soon as people begin to understand that, we can finally stop hearing the same old tired and untrue, regurgitated garbage narratives about D'Antoni and the "Suns defense" and all that other crap.

Your view of what constitutes a "champion" is so simplistic. Yeah the Diamondbacks overcame two blown saves. Maybe because they had Curt **** Schilling and Randy **** Johnson. You can't *always* overcome negative circumstances. The Kings had an entire playoff game stolen from them via corrupted officiating. Had they won that game they would have become champions because they would have annihilated the Nets. Yes, the circumstances dictated what happened. You can say "oh, just overcome it" but you know what? It's not always that easy. "Champions find a way" is such cliched garbage. **** reffing happen. Injuries happen. Sometimes----often times-----they dictate the outcome of a sporting event. It's not *always* about what one team does or doesn't do. It's not *always* about one team's style of play versus another team's style of play. It's not *always* about one team's talent versus another team's talent.

Not only does **** **** matters.

I just said style of play was not the problem. When did I complain about style of play with the Suns? Why are you bringing that up? You can win with run n' gun. I believe you can. Many teams have proven that you can win the championship as a running team, but those teams that won it all played defense. And rebounding is part of defense. It is the final step of playing good defense. They are not two completely different aspects. By the way, you do realize that 1993's teams were far superior to the teams the Suns played in 2007 when it comes to how many points you give up per 100 possessions. The 1993 Suns would have killed the 2007 Suns.

Now that is exactly my point of being the best when it comes to the Diamondbacks. They had Johnson and Schilling and they were the best so they overcame it. The Suns had their whole team in game 6 in 2007 and could have overcome the game 5 loss without Diaw and Amare but they did not. The series was not over yet after game five. They could have won game 6 and come back with home court advantage for game 7 but it did not happen. They basically were getting blown out in game 6 until they made a furious comeback late to make the score respectable.

It is also funny you mention the Kings versus Lakers game and circumstances again because that game was just on NBA tv within the past couple of days. Yes that game was horribly officiated, but Divac missed a free throw with 11.8 seconds remaining in the game. If he would have made that, it would have been a three point game instead of a two point game and Horry hitting a shot at the buzzer would not have won the game. It would have only tied it. Or maybe the Kings foul and make the game a free throw shooting contest. Point is, the KIngs missed an enormous free throw at the end of the game. The Kings also had game 7 on their home floor and could not close the deal.

[BurningHeart]

Not talking about Game 4, though Game 4 still had its fair share of bull, including Samaki Walker's 3 at halftime that shouldn't have counted. I'm talking about Game 6. The game was criminally stolen from them. It's a wonder they even had a chance to still win Game 6 given the blatant corruption in that game. Hey, maybe the Kings should have just overcome Mike Bibby's throat fouling Kobe Bryant's elbow, right? Game 7 is a whole other story. That one was blown. I'd be deflated too after getting robbed like that. Probably what happened in Game 6 of the 2007 Semis, actually. After the forehead, Donaghy, the suspensions and losing Game 5 on a Bruce Bowen three late, there's only so much you can overcome.

But, as your post illustrated, it's all circumstantial.

Oh well. Now that I've run through two of the many things that have led me to hate basketball outside of the Phoenix Suns, I think I'll take a step back from this discussion.

[SunsRback4Good]

The Nash era (2004- 2010) because I didn't follow basketball when I moved from Ukraine to Arizona in 1993. I became a fan early 2000's and remember watching Kidd, Nash, K. Johnson in 2001 I believe playoffs against the might Lakers. When will you ever see 3 great pg's on one team like that again? 2 are definitely HOF's while K. Johnson might not get in but in my book he should.

[King4Day]

Nash era for me.
I was a fan during the Barkley era but wasn't into sports the way I am today.
The Nash era helped me learn basketball and appreciate it overall.

[Frank Lee]

late 70's and early 80's (surprise ) ... the NBA's HeyDay.... loved the brief KJ/ Barkley yrs, and the Nash run, but these early squads had some very entertaining players and competitive teams...
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Ran across this looking for clips of Walter Davis...(couldn't find any) Look at the intro on this game.... either squad would be a handful today.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpmXmczWXoI[/youtube]