Vegas sets Over/Under on wins at 42.5

[phrazbit]

The Pelicans are debatable, my thoughts on them is in large because I think the supporting parts around Davis are really overrated. I think Holiday is merely slightly above average, Gordon is lousy, Evans is an empty stat bum. I also don't trust anyone on that list to stay healthy.

As for the Lakers, I think they're going to be horrendous and I dont have doubts about it. Of that list, Nash, Lin, Kobe, Randal, Swaggy, Wes, Boozer; that is a horrible horrible horrible rotation of guys. Nash is done, Swaggy P is a chucker who puts up points but gives it all back through bad D and idiocy, Wes sucks, Boozer sucks, he sneaky sucks but he is really bad, he killed the Bulls last year when he was on the court, Lin is okay, Randal is a nice piece to build with but still a rookie, Hill is a below average big... and finally Kobe. I'm not at all worried about Kobe's presence, if he is healthy or not I don't think it makes a bit of difference. He is toast. If he is healthy enough to play I fully expect him to play so poorly it will make Jordan on the Wizards look like Jordan in Space Jam.

[lilfishi22]

Agreed about LA phrazbit.

Their pieces don't fit and there's clearly not enough top level talent to be any good. I don't know if they are a bottom 5 team because there are still some truly horrendous team around the league but they should definitely be in the bottom 10.

[bwgood77]

Both teams have some nice pieces but they don't have the right players to play together. NO has three guys who play best with the ball in their hands, and none are nearly their best player, or even second best. They have a nice frontcourt rotation. If they had some alternative starters or glue guys for the swing positions, and could play their better wing players against second units much of the time, it would probably help.

As for LA, kind of the same thing. I don't know if I'd say Boozer sucks, but he has been so overpaid that he is probably best as a good backup, but paired with a defensive presence he is not a bad starter....I think Hill is probably underrated. Their backcourt is the problem, even with Kobe. I think Lin is good, but he needs the ball, and with Kobe he won't have it. Without the ball, Lin is worthless as is Nash. But I suppose if Nash is healthy they should let him spread the floor when Kobe handles the ball, and use Lin as sixth man.

I think both NO and LAL would be fringe playoff teams in the east, but they will suck in the west. NO may not suck, but they will likely struggle to win 40, but that is fringe playoff worthy in the east. LA will win more like 30, but in the east, would win like 35.

[phrazbit]

Kobe and his ball dominating is why I dont think it makes a difference if he is healthy or not. Kobe playing renders Nash, Lin and "Swaggy P" useless. All those guys need the ball to produce. With Kobe on the court it will be a washed up Kobe, a decent Hill, and a couple of guys who usually play off the dribble instead trying to spot up shoot. They're going to be bad. Especially because of how bad Kobe is likely to play, and how much he is likely to force things worse than before because of his declining abilities.

[DEEP3CL]

I think we'll be as good as last year, win 45-50 games... and be a few breaks from either making or missing the playoffs. West is so nasty. If we were in the East I think we'd be easily finish in the top 4. So I'd take the over for us, but still think we're a 50/50 bet to make the playoffs.

I like the under for the Pelicans, like Davis... if he was not there I think that would be a 20 win team, I think he can get them to about 35 but not over 40.

The over for the Pacers (32? out East? they can beat that),

Under for the Lakers, they're awful, super mega awful, and they have a bad coach, and if they finish better than the bottom 5 we get their pick... so you can just about lock them in for the 4th or 5th worst record.

Over for the Hawks, for the same reason others mentioned.

Quite truculent you are there. Man even with our bad finish last season all we still came up with was the 7th pick. We'd have to full blown awful to finish with the 5th worst record in the league and it would mean Kobe would have to be put on the shelf again....which I don't see happening at all seeing how he's looked in camp. And if you think Scott is awful then what does that say for Horny ? Not like he's took a team to the playoffs much less the Finals, at least Scott has that going for him.

I think honestly most Suns fans want that lotto pick, but you gotta use some common sense too...like I said look at last year and all we got was 7th. We have a solid team, just the right amount of youth and certainly more athletic than we've been in the past. We got front line guys, wingers and finally at least a decent to serviceable point guard in Lin.

But you can forget us being 4th to 5th worst. You have to start with Philly, Orlando, Boston and Utah along with Milwaukee again and Minnesota is worse off now. So that's 6 teams right there....6 teams I know we'll easily beat out.

[phrazbit]

I don't think you have a solid team. I think Boozer is a bad player who puts up empty stats, Kobe and Nash are done. You're leaning heavily on a rookie. Kobe and Nash are a terrible pairing, Lin is basically a homeless man's Nash (when he still had a pulse), who also needs the ball in his hands to contribute. Picturing "Swaggy P" and Kobe functioning alongside eachother is funny stuff.

The Scott/Horny comparison is a joke. Scott has not done squat in years. 7 of his last 9 teams have been disasters. His finals trips came during a time when the East even worse than it is now, it was so disgustingly bad that 50 wins was good for the 1 seed.

For the Lakers to be anything but horrible they need Kobe and Randle to have really really good seasons and while I think Randle is a solid prospect expecting him I don't see him being in the ROY hunt as a rookie, especially with Carlos Boozer's rotting corpse wasting a fair chunk of PT.

I think at least 2 of 4 of the Orlando, Boston, Utah and Minnesota group will be in the same neighborhood as LA in the win column.

[DEEP3CL]

I don't think you have a solid team.

Hey it's your right to think that, but I've been watching pro ball for over 30 plus years and I could say that just about every season for a lot of teams. Fact is we don't know until they play the games. Every team has issues as far as personnel is concerned. I wonder about the Suns front court as an example....the lack of depth there may be their undoing.

I think Boozer is a bad player who puts up empty stats, Kobe and Nash are done.

As I had to explain to posters on our board, it's about systems and coaching philosophy. Boozer is a capable 16-18 point player if used in the right scheme. And it's asinine to say Kobe is done, that type of talk is from that of haters. You don't see him on a regular like I do, Kobe is looking much like what he did in 2012 when he averaged 27 ppg. Now saying that for Nash is definitely in play, but unlike outsiders realize the Lakers aren't trying to lean heavy on him anyway.

You're leaning heavily on a rookie.

You couldn't be any more wrong, how did you even assume that ? Fact is rookie or not Randle is still a nice young player who had a game that will adapt to the pro style much quickly than most realize. But the Lakers haven't placed any added pressure on him.

Kobe and Nash are a terrible pairing, Lin is basically a homeless man's Nash (when he still had a pulse), who also needs the ball in his hands to contribute. Picturing "Swaggy P" and Kobe functioning alongside eachother is funny stuff.

This whole post is full of fail. You like the countless of others still view Kobe from 2005-07 when he HAD to take a load of shots for the team to at least be competitive. Kobe's shot totals have went down for like each of the last 4-5 seasons, and that was even before Phil stop coaching the team. What's funny is guys still thinking Kobe is some shot hogging machine when his numbers show otherwise. And I take it that you couldn't have seen many Laker games or the 6 Kobe played in with Young, they worked rather well together.

The Scott/Horny comparison is a joke.

Yeah it is....because the question is what has Horny done or ever done ? I stand by what I know about Scott and he's a much better coach than Horny period.

Scott has not done squat in years. 7 of his last 9 teams have been disasters. His finals trips came during a time when the East even worse than it is now, it was so disgustingly bad that 50 wins was good for the 1 seed.

Still got to back to back Finals, yeah he lost but it's better to have that on a resume than to not have it at all. Horny may turn into a great coach, but he's still just starting out and we have to see him coach in the playoffs first to determine what type of real coach he is.

For the Lakers to be anything but horrible they need Kobe and Randle to have really really good seasons and while I think Randle is a solid prospect expecting him I don't see him being in the ROY hunt as a rookie, especially with Carlos Boozer's rotting corpse wasting a fair chunk of PT. ]/quote] Yeah Randle probably won't be in the ROY running due to the fact he's gonna have to come off the bench and won't get big minutes guys of his drafted position usually get. But trust me when I say the Lakers won't be this team the media and outsiders/ haters want them to be. The Lakers have players that can play the style of ball that's conducive to Scott's system. We have the right mix of guys, younger in the back court, wing guys that can score and defend. And while people say the Laker defense will be questionable, it's about systems and how you employ it....something the media fails to understand.

I think at least 2 of 4 of the Orlando, Boston, Utah and Minnesota group will be in the same neighborhood as LA in the win column.

Yeah maybe those 4 team will battle it out for tanking, but the Lakers will get way more wins than any of the 6 teams I mentioned in my first post. You think a team with Kobe on it is only gonna settle for less than 20 wins ?

Hell we won 24 without him, bottom line is the whack system MDA ran is gone and so is the loose nature that surrounded the team last season. This weeks camp and from what I've seen is already changing the culture here.

But hey you're entitled to your opinions, we'll just see how it plays out.

[Christine-In-AZ]

I think we'll be as good as last year, win 45-50 games... and be a few breaks from either making or missing the playoffs. West is so nasty. If we were in the East I think we'd be easily finish in the top 4. So I'd take the over for us, but still think we're a 50/50 bet to make the playoffs.

I like the under for the Pelicans, like Davis... if he was not there I think that would be a 20 win team, I think he can get them to about 35 but not over 40.

The over for the Pacers (32? out East? they can beat that),

Under for the Lakers, they're awful, super mega awful, and they have a bad coach, and if they finish better than the bottom 5 we get their pick... so you can just about lock them in for the 4th or 5th worst record.

Over for the Hawks, for the same reason others mentioned.

Quite truculent you are there. Man even with our bad finish last season all we still came up with was the 7th pick. We'd have to full blown awful to finish with the 5th worst record in the league and it would mean Kobe would have to be put on the shelf again....which I don't see happening at all seeing how he's looked in camp. And if you think Scott is awful then what does that say for Horny ? Not like he's took a team to the playoffs much less the Finals, at least Scott has that going for him.

I think honestly most Suns fans want that lotto pick, but you gotta use some common sense too...like I said look at last year and all we got was 7th. We have a solid team, just the right amount of youth and certainly more athletic than we've been in the past. We got front line guys, wingers and finally at least a decent to serviceable point guard in Lin.

But you can forget us being 4th to 5th worst. You have to start with Philly, Orlando, Boston and Utah along with Milwaukee again and Minnesota is worse off now. So that's 6 teams right there....6 teams I know we'll easily beat out.

Yes it seems unlikely, but if the Lakers can get 60 games from Nash, LA will be doe-see-doeing with the Suns all year...hovering a bit north of .500. Even if Nash's body continues to betray him and he's out the majority of the season, the Lakers win total will still end up well into the 30's.

[DEEP3CL]

Yes it seems unlikely, but if the Lakers can get 60 games from Nash, LA will be doe-see-doeing with the Suns all year...hovering a bit north of .500. Even if Nash's body continues to betray him and he's out the majority of the season, the Lakers win total will still end up well into the 30's.

Well that's the thing, most outside the Laker fan base still think the Laker are relying on him heavily, when fact is even Mitch said the team isn't expecting much from him. And if Nash did conk out again, I fully expect Mitch to make a move. But I get the sentiment of Suns fans wanting to see the Lakers with less than 20-30 wins.....you guys want another high pick. But doesn't anybody here understand that even with how hard we tried to lose last season, all we still got was the 7th pick ? The Lottery system just isn't designed to give teams that type of luck.

But the team is going to win way more than it did last season. If that means playing above their heads then so be it. The object is to win the game. That's pretty much how the Suns did it last season. Many felt the Suns played way over their heads, I was one of them. But you know how this league works, teams adapt and catch on to what your doing. Most nights teams didn't know what to exploit against the Suns, because many had the perception that the team was still doing what they had been doing for the last 6-7 years. They changed the system up but teams didn't catch it until almost the end of the season and that's when the Suns struggled a bit.

Anyway we'll just have to see how it goes.

[bwgood77]

Yes it seems unlikely, but if the Lakers can get 60 games from Nash, LA will be doe-see-doeing with the Suns all year...hovering a bit north of .500. Even if Nash's body continues to betray him and he's out the majority of the season, the Lakers win total will still end up well into the 30's.

It's weird to say, but I think if Kobe is completely healthy all year and Nash is too as a secondary ball handler and 3 pt specialist maybe. Or if Kobe is out and Lin OR Nash (especially Nash) can feed the rest of the team, it is a possibity, but I'm not sure I see any of that happening.

I see them rarely beating any team in the west, and I think their chemistry is bad unless Lin is sixth man when Kobe sits and if Kobe is healthy, Nash needs to be more of a scorer because Kobe will dominate the ball. If Nash is healthy, and Kobe is out and Lin plays more as a backup, I think it will ignite more of the team. I know it is weird to think Kobe hurts the chemistry but I think it is true. But I guess if everyone is healthy I think their frontcourt is decent and if Nash spots up a lot with Lin as spot up, they are ok. In the east a fringe playoff team, but in the west, it is too tough to get better than a 9-11 seed.

[phrazbit]

lol, whatever man. I like how you respond to me saying "I dont think you have a solid team" by saying we will have to wait and see, then you proceed to explain how any reason they might not be solid is just the views of a "hater". Then go onto make some of the most laughably homerish garbage I've read... even from Laker fans.

Yeah, we'll wait and see, and when the Lakers win less than 30 games I doubt you'll be forth coming about your misjudgements.

And I'd prefer if the Lakers had a pulse, because I do want their pick, but when I make the prediction I am making it is that the Suns DO NOT get the Laker pick because they're going to end up in the top 5.

[Christine-In-AZ]

Yes it seems unlikely, but if the Lakers can get 60 games from Nash, LA will be doe-see-doeing with the Suns all year...hovering a bit north of .500. Even if Nash's body continues to betray him and he's out the majority of the season, the Lakers win total will still end up well into the 30's.

It's weird to say, but I think if Kobe is completely healthy all year and Nash is too as a secondary ball handler and 3 pt specialist maybe. Or if Kobe is out and Lin OR Nash (especially Nash) can feed the rest of the team, it is a possibity, but I'm not sure I see any of that happening.

I see them rarely beating any team in the west, and I think their chemistry is bad unless Lin is sixth man when Kobe sits and if Kobe is healthy, Nash needs to be more of a scorer because Kobe will dominate the ball. If Nash is healthy, and Kobe is out and Lin plays more as a backup, I think it will ignite more of the team. I know it is weird to think Kobe hurts the chemistry but I think it is true. But I guess if everyone is healthy I think their frontcourt is decent and if Nash spots up a lot with Lin as spot up, they are ok. In the east a fringe playoff team, but in the west, it is too tough to get better than a 9-11 seed.

Gun to my head- Lakers end up 41-41 = 11th seed

...so we might be agreeing?

[bwgood77]

Yes it seems unlikely, but if the Lakers can get 60 games from Nash, LA will be doe-see-doeing with the Suns all year...hovering a bit north of .500. Even if Nash's body continues to betray him and he's out the majority of the season, the Lakers win total will still end up well into the 30's.

It's weird to say, but I think if Kobe is completely healthy all year and Nash is too as a secondary ball handler and 3 pt specialist maybe. Or if Kobe is out and Lin OR Nash (especially Nash) can feed the rest of the team, it is a possibity, but I'm not sure I see any of that happening.

I see them rarely beating any team in the west, and I think their chemistry is bad unless Lin is sixth man when Kobe sits and if Kobe is healthy, Nash needs to be more of a scorer because Kobe will dominate the ball. If Nash is healthy, and Kobe is out and Lin plays more as a backup, I think it will ignite more of the team. I know it is weird to think Kobe hurts the chemistry but I think it is true. But I guess if everyone is healthy I think their frontcourt is decent and if Nash spots up a lot with Lin as spot up, they are ok. In the east a fringe playoff team, but in the west, it is too tough to get better than a 9-11 seed.

Gun to my head- Lakers end up 41-41 = 11th seed

...so we might be agreeing?

The over on 42.5 seems like easy money.

11th seed yes, but that good of a record in the west....no way unless everyone is healthy and they manage lineups perfertly...I think that is at best their ceiling and I would take the under on that no doubt.

[Revived]

Suns won't make the playoffs again unless Kieff/Len/Plumlee make huge developments.

Having the best group of guards in the conference doesn't mean a lot when you also have the worst front court in the conference.

I think we will make playoffs but its really dependent on the big guys.

[phrazbit]

Suns won't make the playoffs again unless Kieff/Len/Plumlee make huge developments.

Having the best group of guards in the conference doesn't mean a lot when you also have the worst front court in the conference.

I think we will make playoffs but its really dependent on the big guys.

We came within a game of the playoffs last year with Bledsoe missing 39. The most important thing is that he and Dragic stay healthy. If those dudes play 70-75 games together then we will probably be a playoff team.

If other guys make big leaps on top of that then it would be the difference between us being a good or great team.

[Moochthemonkey]

Suns won't make the playoffs again unless Kieff/Len/Plumlee make huge developments.

Having the best group of guards in the conference doesn't mean a lot when you also have the worst front court in the conference.

I think we will make playoffs but its really dependent on the big guys.

We came within a game of the playoffs last year with Bledsoe missing 39. The most important thing is that he and Dragic stay healthy. If those dudes play 70-75 games together then we will probably be a playoff team.

If other guys make big leaps on top of that then it would be the difference between us being a good or great team.

...and to remember how insanely pessimistic you were of this team around a year ago...kudos dude

[bwgood77]

With some thought, I think the biggest lock has to be the under on Philly. They win 19 last year and they have Young, Hawes and Turner for half the year. Not that these guys are awesome, but they are HIGH upgrades from rookies. Noel might be good and some of their other rookies might be good, but this is a D league team playing vets.

I honestly think they will struggle to win 10 games, and I wouldn't be surprised if they won like 5.

[gaspar]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/BenGolliver/status/519539027561566208[/tweet]

[lilfishi22]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/BenGolliver/status/519539027561566208[/tweet]

So there's 6 teams worse than the Lakers?

[JTrain]

There won't be seven teams at 50 or more wins in the West this year, because Denver, NOP, and LAL will all improve and the East shouldn't be quite as bad as it was last year.

45 wins should be enough for the 8th seed. 46 or 47 should get you up to 7th or even 6th.