Sun agree to terms with Tyson Chandler

[Wormwood74]

I really like this signing, for a number of reasons.

1. Chandler is an elite defensive center (5th best in terms of DRPM). Defense depends on your center more than any other position. We're going to get a lot better there.

2. He rebounds. Not since Marion was a Sun did have we had someone who can give us 10 rpg.

3. Veteran. You gotta have someone to herd the kids. Seriously, been there done that in my professional life.

4. Price: this is low impact once the cap goes up. Really. Basically 13m/yr out of 90 or 105m for a quality starter. An average player gets 8m with a 105m cap.

5. Health: He played 75 games last year.Aaron Nelson is as good as they come. It's a concern, but a manageable risk.

6. Age: He's coming off one of his best statistical season as a pro (not best time to buy). However, he may not have hit the back side of his career yet. In fact, remember 37 year old, 6-9, 235 lb Kurt Thomas fighting Duncan to a standstill in the playoffs defensively? Yeah, elite (smart) defenders who use angles, leverage and positioning to hold their own can still play at a high level well into their 30's on the defensive end (See also: Tim Duncan). Good defenders / rebounders who rely on smarts age gracefully. (Along with great shooters). If he stays healthy, Chandler will likely be a difference maker on the court for some time to come.

7. I like Len, but he's 22 and still pretty raw. 28 mpg for Chandler, 20 for Len works out well, especially with Len still being a bit of a foul machine.

8. Even if we stand pat, having two very good defenders anchoring our front line (Chandler, Morris) means we are likely to be more competitive for a playoff spot this year.

9. Could this be our Nash signing? Potentially yes. If this turns into LMA, we basically won the offseason.

[bwgood77]

At worst case, If Aldridge says No... and Suns look terrible or mediocre 20 games in.

Bledsoe + Chandler + picks for Cousins!?, assuming Kings dont end up with Rondo.

Established player + young good player! as per George Karl's request!

Why would Boogie force his way to a Bledsoe-less Suns team?

Or a team looking terrible after 20 games? "Lets see...where do I want to go? Phoenix looks good..." But I think it's already been established they are not trading him.

[bwgood77]

The fate of who is a good team in the NBA is decided by about 20 humans brains about where they want to play, and you just hope to get one.

We're conbuilding, not my preference, but there's no sure thing. McDonough and Hornacek contracts are up in a season or two, so in that respect not surprising they want results this season.

Lets change conbuilding to retending. It sounds more right.

[Frank Lee]

Worm.....
1-8, um nod ...yes...nod....
#9 whooohoop ... Don't try to Babby us now


I can't find any fault in signing TChandler. But we need at least one more piece. As mentioned, our long shot odds for LMA have been reduced to 5-1. If reports are true he wants a 1 + 1 then a bank buster .... do we do that ? Almost have to at this point.

No LMA still leaves plenty of work to do. Knowing what the FO's intention with the MoBros would sure make speculating easier. True to form, McDuh pulled a rabbit with Chandler. I will give him this... he's a left fielder for sure.


PS.... wait, re-read #8 ... Morris??? defensive anchor ?? Babby-ed AND McDuh-ed

[TASTIC]

Worm.....
1-8, um nod ...yes...nod....
#9 whooohoop ... Don't try to Babby us now


I can't find any fault in signing TChandler. But we need at least one more piece. As mentioned, our long shot odds for LMA have been reduced to 5-1. If reports are true he wants a 1 + 1 then a bank buster .... do we do that ? Almost have to at this point.

No LMA still leaves plenty of work to do. Knowing what the FO's intention with the MoBros would sure make speculating easier. True to form, McDuh pulled a rabbit with Chandler. I will give him this... he's a left fielder for sure.


PS.... wait, re-read #8 ... Morris??? defensive anchor ?? Babby-ed AND McDuh-ed

#2 - Matrix says hi!


He seriously caught everyone off guard with the Chandler signing, not even Woj or anyone had even mentioned a meeting. Definitely a tightly run ship now, not like previous front offices.

[Wildlinger]

I like Chandler as the veteran presence on the team, but not for that money.

I'm not sure whether a 33 year old Chandler with a long injury history, truly is a step forward, especially with some of the moves made during past season. I don't think that the team as it stands now is any better than the team at the start of the 14-15 season. You could actually argue the exact opposite.

If people had a problem with potentially paying a 33 year old (guard) Dragic $18 million, I definitely think that paying a 37 year old (center) Chander in in excess of $14 million (depending on the way contract is structured) is not a good deal.

I'm seeing this as a strong lateral move (along with Knight's signing) that strengthens our position as a 9th or 10th seed in the west, which will get even stronger next season.

I'm just really fearful that all the moves made during this offseason will amount to the Suns picking 13th again next year.

Aldridge pipe dream this season reminds me of the LeBron and Bosh futile pursuit last season, while some other more realistic or prudent options went away. Even in case we land Aldridge, we still won't have the team that will contend for the championship (or WC finals), although there's no denying it would be a big step forward.

McD seems to be going all in on the Morey tactic of rebuilding while staying (sort of) competitive, I'm just not sure that blind asset gathering is the way to go. In many ways Chandler signing reminds me of the Thomas signing last year. Yet again we're doubling down on a position where we have a player that might benefit more from being on the court, than playing against Chandler in practice.

Suns still seem to be nothing more than a group of solid assets. Much more will be needed to build a real team.

[nevetsov]

This signing was as much for the benefit of other players than any sole contribution by Chandler himself.

As for Chandler cutting into Len's minutes, I really can't see either of them being capable of averaging 30mpg right now, so hopefully by limiting both of their minutes we will ensure extended durability throughout the season.

As for the money, Len is still cheap, and by the time we have to pay him, Chandler will be movable if need be.

[Wormwood74]

Worm.....
1-8, um nod ...yes...nod....
#9 whooohoop ... Don't try to Babby us now

PS.... wait, re-read #8 ... Morris??? defensive anchor ?? Babby-ed AND McDuh-ed

Markieff Morris had the 6th best DRPM among all power forwards last year, and the best defensive net +/- per 48 on the team.

[m1chal]

I like Chandler as the veteran presence on the team, but not for that money.

I'm not sure whether a 33 year old Chandler with a long injury history, truly is a step forward, especially with some of the moves made during past season. I don't think that the team as it stands now is any better than the team at the start of the 14-15 season. You could actually argue the exact opposite.

If people had a problem with potentially paying a 33 year old (guard) Dragic $18 million, I definitely think that paying a 37 year old (center) Chander in in excess of $14 million (depending on the way contract is structured) is not a good deal.

I'm seeing this as a strong lateral move (along with Knight's signing) that strengthens our position as a 9th or 10th seed in the west, which will get even stronger next season.

I'm just really fearful that all the moves made during this offseason will amount to the Suns picking 13th again next year.

Aldridge pipe dream this season reminds me of the LeBron and Bosh futile pursuit last season, while some other more realistic or prudent options went away. Even in case we land Aldridge, we still won't have the team that will contend for the championship (or WC finals), although there's no denying it would be a big step forward.

McD seems to be going all in on the Morey tactic of rebuilding while staying (sort of) competitive, I'm just not sure that blind asset gathering is the way to go. In many ways Chandler signing reminds me of the Thomas signing last year. Yet again we're doubling down on a position where we have a player that might benefit more from being on the court, than playing against Chandler in practice.

Suns still seem to be nothing more than a group of solid assets. Much more will be needed to build a real team.

If we get LMA we're a good team, perhaps not a championship contender but WCF might be within our reach and signing TC would be validated. If LMA's choice are Spurs then this signing is IMO a big mistake. Obviously all posters praising TC's defense, leadership skills and so on are right but I think we could have it all for a modest price of 6 mln per year. Or something close to it.
McD took a huge gamble here, betting all on one card.

[NavLDO]

Good signing! 33 YO at the start of the season seems a bit old, and when he's 36 (not 37, as everyone keeps saying--do the math--15'=33, '16=34, '17=35, '18=36--Free Agent in '19, age 37), it will also seems like a lot, IF the cap was still $63M, but it won't be, it'll likely be $110Mish, so that's what, 12%? That's a lower % than what we pay Kieff this year at $8M.

Then, add in the fact that players like Duncan, Garnett, Pierce, Marion etc., have all been fairly productive at age 35, so it's not a foregone conclusion that he won't be productive his last season. It's a calculated risk, sure, but now the Suns are viewed as REAL contenders for LMA's services. Before his signing? Not so much...

[Wannabe MEP]

I really like this signing, for a number of reasons.

1. Chandler is an elite defensive center (5th best in terms of DRPM). Defense depends on your center more than any other position. We're going to get a lot better there.

2. He rebounds. Not since Marion was a Sun did have we had someone who can give us 10 rpg.

3. Veteran. You gotta have someone to herd the kids. Seriously, been there done that in my professional life.

4. Price: this is low impact once the cap goes up. Really. Basically 13m/yr out of 90 or 105m for a quality starter. An average player gets 8m with a 105m cap.

5. Health: He played 75 games last year.Aaron Nelson is as good as they come. It's a concern, but a manageable risk.

6. Age: He's coming off one of his best statistical season as a pro (not best time to buy). However, he may not have hit the back side of his career yet. In fact, remember 37 year old, 6-9, 235 lb Kurt Thomas fighting Duncan to a standstill in the playoffs defensively? Yeah, elite (smart) defenders who use angles, leverage and positioning to hold their own can still play at a high level well into their 30's on the defensive end (See also: Tim Duncan). Good defenders / rebounders who rely on smarts age gracefully. (Along with great shooters). If he stays healthy, Chandler will likely be a difference maker on the court for some time to come.

7. I like Len, but he's 22 and still pretty raw. 28 mpg for Chandler, 20 for Len works out well, especially with Len still being a bit of a foul machine.

8. Even if we stand pat, having two very good defenders anchoring our front line (Chandler, Morris) means we are likely to be more competitive for a playoff spot this year.

9. Could this be our Nash signing? Potentially yes. If this turns into LMA, we basically won the offseason.

F***ing exactly.



Nomination for Wormy getting top poster consideration for thorough analysis + using DRPM

[rottenbanana36]

I love the Chandler signing. With a team that has so much youth it allowed knuckleheads like Kief and Marcus to be "leaders" on the team and it showed. There was no maturity on the court or even off of it. Chandler alone comes in and essentially becomes the elder statesmen and the discipline in the locker room and possibly makes the twins and the younger guys accountable. I think more than anything the lack of leadership was what torpedoed last season. Goran doesn't have that aura about him and we know Bledsoe isn't the vocal leader. PJ could have been but then he went and had the DUI and missed the bus. That stuff won't fly with Chandler there and hopefully LMA too.

[jcsunsfan]

I really like this signing, for a number of reasons.

1. Chandler is an elite defensive center (5th best in terms of DRPM). Defense depends on your center more than any other position. We're going to get a lot better there.

2. He rebounds. Not since Marion was a Sun did have we had someone who can give us 10 rpg.

3. Veteran. You gotta have someone to herd the kids. Seriously, been there done that in my professional life.

4. Price: this is low impact once the cap goes up. Really. Basically 13m/yr out of 90 or 105m for a quality starter. An average player gets 8m with a 105m cap.

5. Health: He played 75 games last year.Aaron Nelson is as good as they come. It's a concern, but a manageable risk.

6. Age: He's coming off one of his best statistical season as a pro (not best time to buy). However, he may not have hit the back side of his career yet. In fact, remember 37 year old, 6-9, 235 lb Kurt Thomas fighting Duncan to a standstill in the playoffs defensively? Yeah, elite (smart) defenders who use angles, leverage and positioning to hold their own can still play at a high level well into their 30's on the defensive end (See also: Tim Duncan). Good defenders / rebounders who rely on smarts age gracefully. (Along with great shooters). If he stays healthy, Chandler will likely be a difference maker on the court for some time to come.

7. I like Len, but he's 22 and still pretty raw. 28 mpg for Chandler, 20 for Len works out well, especially with Len still being a bit of a foul machine.

8. Even if we stand pat, having two very good defenders anchoring our front line (Chandler, Morris) means we are likely to be more competitive for a playoff spot this year.

9. Could this be our Nash signing? Potentially yes. If this turns into LMA, we basically won the offseason.

F***ing exactly.



Nomination for Wormy getting top poster consideration for thorough analysis + using DRPM

With Len and Chandler we can limit both of their minutes some and save some wear and tear.

[JTrain]

I really like Chandler. #8 in WS/48 last year and #37 in PER. Great defensively and high BBIQ.

But if he doesn't land us LMA, I don't think the move makes sense for Phoenix.

Without LMA, we are once again in that 7-10 range fighting for a playoff spot. And once again we land a pick in the 10-15 range.

As good as Chandler is, NBA players statistically experience massive declines from age 33-35. Of course you can always cherry pick guys who were still playing at an elite level at 35+, but those are the exceptions, not the rule.

I would rather have kept Wright, used this season to develop and play the young guys and gotten a top five pick next year, then continue to look for value trades for younger guys. Set ourselves up to be a contender in 3-4 years.

He will make this season more enjoyable to watch, so I'm glad for that. But when I step back I think it hinders our ability to be great down the road. But if we somehow get LMA, then our time to win is now.

[SkinnyOMiller]

but I think we could have it all for a modest price of 6 mln per year. Or something close to it.
McD took a huge gamble here, betting all on one card.

LOL, not sure if serious. A year from now you'll struggle to get that awkward end of the bench 7 foot towel-waving Lithuanian for $6 mil a year.


People are upset with the salary that Chandler got but I think their contention is really with the salary cap reality of the NBA today. Average players are getting $10 mil a year contracts, Greg Monroe just got the max....in light of all of that, it is difficult to argue that Chandler getting $13 mil is "overpaid."

[NavLDO]

I really like Chandler. #8 in WS/48 last year and #37 in PER. Great defensively and high BBIQ.

But if he doesn't land us LMA, I don't think the move makes sense for Phoenix.

Without LMA, we are once again in that 7-10 range fighting for a playoff spot. And once again we land a pick in the 10-15 range.

As good as Chandler is, NBA players statistically experience massive declines from age 33-35. Of course you can always cherry pick guys who were still playing at an elite level at 35+, but those are the exceptions, not the rule.

I would rather have kept Wright, used this season to develop and play the young guys and gotten a top five pick next year, then continue to look for value trades for younger guys. Set ourselves up to be a contender in 3-4 years.

He will make this season more enjoyable to watch, so I'm glad for that. But when I step back I think it hinders our ability to be great down the road. But if we somehow get LMA, then our time to win is now.

That's also cherry picking, and also exceptions to the rule--I can look at several players that experienced massive declines from 30-32, or 29-31, or 31-33, but Chandler didn't at all-he's been steady throughout his career, though averaging missing 15-20 games per season.

[rsavaj]

We can be a low-key GREAT defensive team now with Bledsoe/Knight/Tucker/Chandler...if we don't finish top 10 in DefEff with that group, we're doing something wrong

[JTrain]

I really like Chandler. #8 in WS/48 last year and #37 in PER. Great defensively and high BBIQ.

But if he doesn't land us LMA, I don't think the move makes sense for Phoenix.

Without LMA, we are once again in that 7-10 range fighting for a playoff spot. And once again we land a pick in the 10-15 range.

As good as Chandler is, NBA players statistically experience massive declines from age 33-35. Of course you can always cherry pick guys who were still playing at an elite level at 35+, but those are the exceptions, not the rule.

I would rather have kept Wright, used this season to develop and play the young guys and gotten a top five pick next year, then continue to look for value trades for younger guys. Set ourselves up to be a contender in 3-4 years.

He will make this season more enjoyable to watch, so I'm glad for that. But when I step back I think it hinders our ability to be great down the road. But if we somehow get LMA, then our time to win is now.

That's also cherry picking, and also exceptions to the rule--I can look at several players that experienced massive declines from 30-32, or 29-31, or 31-33, but Chandler didn't at all-he's been steady throughout his career, though averaging missing 15-20 games per season.

No, that's statistical analysis: http://wagesofwins.com/nba-players-age-like-milk/

[NavLDO]

I really like Chandler. #8 in WS/48 last year and #37 in PER. Great defensively and high BBIQ.

But if he doesn't land us LMA, I don't think the move makes sense for Phoenix.

Without LMA, we are once again in that 7-10 range fighting for a playoff spot. And once again we land a pick in the 10-15 range.

As good as Chandler is, NBA players statistically experience massive declines from age 33-35. Of course you can always cherry pick guys who were still playing at an elite level at 35+, but those are the exceptions, not the rule.

I would rather have kept Wright, used this season to develop and play the young guys and gotten a top five pick next year, then continue to look for value trades for younger guys. Set ourselves up to be a contender in 3-4 years.

He will make this season more enjoyable to watch, so I'm glad for that. But when I step back I think it hinders our ability to be great down the road. But if we somehow get LMA, then our time to win is now.

That's also cherry picking, and also exceptions to the rule--I can look at several players that experienced massive declines from 30-32, or 29-31, or 31-33, but Chandler didn't at all-he's been steady throughout his career, though averaging missing 15-20 games per season.

No, that's statistical analysis: http://wagesofwins.com/nba-players-age-like-milk/

Well, this may be nitpicking, but you are looking at HOW MANY players decline, not HOW MUCH they decline--those are two different things. Of course as players age, a higher % is going to decline at a higher age. and how much of that decline is based on lesser playing time? Where's the correlation of playing time to playing capability? And how about the playing on a new team/new system? Etc. There are a lot of different factors to take into account.

Additionally, directly quoted from that site:

"Once they hit thirty-two though their degradation is very swift."

Now look at Chandler's stats from the last four years and tell me which season was his best--I'll save you the time, his Age 32 season was his most productive, AND healthy, so please show me where he's showing signs of decline?

[JTrain]

That's also cherry picking, and also exceptions to the rule--I can look at several players that experienced massive declines from 30-32, or 29-31, or 31-33, but Chandler didn't at all-he's been steady throughout his career, though averaging missing 15-20 games per season.

No, that's statistical analysis: http://wagesofwins.com/nba-players-age-like-milk/

Well, this may be nitpicking, but you are looking at HOW MANY players decline, not HOW MUCH they decline

No. I am specifically talking about how much they decline. That is what the link clearly shows. It becomes essentially exponential after age 32, which means it is very unlikely for any player not to see significant decline starting at that point. The outliers are of course frequently discussed, but they are just that-- outliers.