Links to interesting NBA articles - Blueprints for teams

[bwgood77]

Good summary of the nightmare we live in as Suns fans....

http://www.si.com/nba/2016/02/01/jeff-hornacek-phoenix-suns-robert-sarver-eric-bledsoe-tyson-chandler

Another one....

Less than two weeks ago, Phoenix Suns general manager Ryan McDonough said coach Jeff Hornacek had done “a terrific job over the course of three years.”

The last two weeks seem to have negated all that.

http://www.todaysfastbreak.com/nba-west/phoenix-suns/magruder-suns-problems-much-deeper-jeff-hornacek/

[bwgood77]

From BSoTS

How did Earl Watson decide Markieff was his bread and butter?

"I don't know how I pick a lot of things," Watson said of his decision to lean on Morris. "It's just a feel and I had a feeling if I gave him positive encouragement and let him know that no matter what we love him no matter what happens beyond basketball and give him an opportunity to play and let him know he is going to play, he is going to play big minutes. Just kind of communicate with him and just... You know, some things are bigger than basketball so when you reach out beyond basketball players tend to respond well."

Translation: McDoWhatISay told me to get him as many shots as possible so he can trade his ass.

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2016/2/3/10903850/aftermath-phoenix-suns-markieff-morris-leader-devin-booker-top-option-highlights

[bwgood77]

Found this interesting...

Kerr, beyond being an NBA rookie in Phoenix, was a part-owner and consultant with the Suns from 2004 to 2007 and then served three seasons as their general manager, culminating with the 2010 Western Conference finals team and his exit. When he began coaching last season, it was Jeff Hornacek’s 2013-14 success as a rookie Suns coach that gave him inspiration and a model for how he would lead the Warriors. He said he even stole some of Hornacek’s plays for his playbook.

“It’s just a jolt of NBA reality,” Kerr said of Hornacek’s Feb. 1 firing. “Every coach is sort of a victim of circumstance, good or bad. So much depends on the talent that you have and the support you have and the chemistry in your organization and your locker room. Unfortunately, it’s a really, really hard thing to discover or to create. I feel very lucky to have that here because I know it doesn’t exist in most places.”

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2016/02/10/steve-kerr-feels-jeff-hornaceks-phoenix-suns-demise/80213012/

[bwgood77]

Hall of Famer Oscar Robertson told ESPN's Mike & Mike on Thursday that Curry's success is largely due to today's style of play, which isn't as physical as back in the day. Another Hall of Famer, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, concurs.

On top of that, retired stars Stephen Jackson (2006-07 Warriors) and Cedric Ceballos (1993-94 Suns) both have said their former teams could have beaten this Warriors team, which holds the best record in NBA history through 57 games (52-5) and remains one game ahead of the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls' pace in their record 72-10 season.

"Steph Curry, unbelievable shooter, but [Kevin Johnson] was a point guard's nightmare because he was so strong and he loved going to the basket," Ceballos told Fox Sports Radio, explaining why he believed his Suns team -- which included Charles Barkley, Dan Majerle, Danny Ainge and Tom Chambers -- could beat these Warriors in a playoff series.

"That's one thing these teams don't do: they do not expose Steph and the way he plays defense. I don't think we would have a problem with this Golden State team."

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14857175/golden-state-warriors-stephen-curry-finds-bashing-retired-stars-annoying

[saintEscaton]

A nostalgia for a bygone era that will never be resurrected. That stamenent is patently false

[RunSunRun]

Yeah, loved that 93-94 Suns team, but they wouldn't fare well in this era. Hell, I don't think our best SSOL era team could beat these Warriors.

[bwgood77]

Yeah, loved that 93-94 Suns team, but they wouldn't fare well in this era. Hell, I don't think our best SSOL era team could beat these Warriors.

Who do you think would win a series between the 94-95 Suns (I thought this was the best version of that group) or the 06-07 Suns (again, I thought this was the best version of that group)?

[RunSunRun]

Who do you think would win a series between the 94-95 Suns (I thought this was the best version of that group) or the 06-07 Suns (again, I thought this was the best version of that group)?

That's tough, I'd probably lean towards the 94-95 group, but only slightly as I give them the nod on defense. Although depending on how they played Barkley, a trio of KT, Amare, and Matrix should be able to hold their own on the glass you would think against the smaller Barkley, but Barkley just out hustled and out muscled bigger players all the time. Majerle would probably have a ton of open looks against that 06-07 Suns defense.

Think the big match up would be KJ on Nash. I always saw KJ as one of the greatest who had injuries derail his career. I could see KJ just giving Nash fits with his defense and physical offense style. Just my opinion of course.

[GMATCallahan]

Actually, the Phoenix teams of that era would easily adjust to today's era and might actually be better in this era. First, Paul Westphal liked to play without true centers whenever possible, using a guy like Tom Chambers or A.C. Green as the nominal center. That type of lineup prefigured how teams play nowadays. When playing that smaller, more offensively oriented lineup, the Suns would generally seek to spread the court with multiple three-point shooters, generally Dan Majerle and Danny Ainge (although even then, the emphasis on maximizing spacing was not quite what it is now).

And today's NBA is basically designed for Kevin Johnson—he just was never able to play in it. In fact, today's rules and spatial concepts are so designed for someone with Kevin Johnson's abilities (which should not be a huge surprise given that Jerry Colangelo played a major role in adjusting the rules, namely those involving hand-checking and the modern, revamped defensive three seconds rule) that if he had wanted to, K.J. may have been able to lead the league in both scoring average and assists average in the same season at some point. (However, he likely would have never shot the ball often enough to do so—by choice.)

Then add to all that Barkley's post-up abilities, which is an element the extent of which Golden State never needed to deal with in last year's playoff run—and likely will never need to deal with.

So remember that the Suns of that era were sort of atypical—the New York Knicks of that time, for instance, might struggle to deal with some of today's rules changes and concepts, but Phoenix would have adapted pretty easily. Indeed, Mike D'Antoni once stated that the Suns constituted one of the few NBA teams that he would actually try to watch when he was over in Italy coaching.

That said, you generally need to be efficient defensively in order to win a championship, and only the first of the Barkley teams ('92-'93, which ranked ninth in Defensive Rating and which Ceballos actually meant to refer to, given that that year was the only one when Chambers played with Barkley) would qualify.

Of course, what most folks do not understand is that some of the pre-Barkley Phoenix teams were probably better, at the end of the day, than some of the Barkley teams.

And that is a topic for another day.

[bwgood77]

Of course, what most folks do not understand is that some of the pre-Barkley Phoenix teams were probably better, at the end of the day, than some of the Barkley teams.

And that is a topic for another day.

I've mentioned this a bit, but I think the vast majority of people on this forum became fans either during the Barkley days partially because of him, or during the SSOL days, so I'm not sure how many saw the pre Barkley teams.

That 89-90 team that took out Stockton/Malone in 5 and then Magic/Worthy and company in 5 and had a very close series against the Blazers in the WCF (may have beat them in overall pt differential in the series) may have had a better chance of beating the Pistons in the finals than the Blazers did.

[Qwigglez]

I actually became a fan I believe in '98. I was in third grade and some reason got really into basketball this year. Followed the Suns because they were the only team on and I lived in Phoenix.

[GMATCallahan]

Who do you think would win a series between the 94-95 Suns (I thought this was the best version of that group) or the 06-07 Suns (again, I thought this was the best version of that group)?

That's tough, I'd probably lean towards the 94-95 group, but only slightly as I give them the nod on defense. Although depending on how they played Barkley, a trio of KT, Amare, and Matrix should be able to hold their own on the glass you would think against the smaller Barkley, but Barkley just out hustled and out muscled bigger players all the time. Majerle would probably have a ton of open looks against that 06-07 Suns defense.

Think the big match up would be KJ on Nash. I always saw KJ as one of the greatest who had injuries derail his career. I could see KJ just giving Nash fits with his defense and physical offense style. Just my opinion of course.

Relative to the league, the '06-'07 Suns were actually better defensively than the '94-'95 Suns, ranking thirteenth (among thirty teams) in Defensive Rating (points allowed per possession) compared to nineteenth (among twenty-seven teams) for the earlier club. Indeed, the Suns lost Game Seven of the 1995 Western Conference Semifinals at home to Houston when they allowed 74 points in the second half.

Of course, that point may be moot since the NBA had changed so much by '06-'07. Frankly, even D'Antoni may not have been willing or able to play his "small lineups" for long stretches against the teams with the superstar centers. Amar'e Stoudemire, for instance, would have had absolutely no chance against a peak Hakeem Olajuwon (or a peak David Robinson, or a prime Patrick Ewing, or a young Shaquille O'Neal already averaging nearly thirty points per game for the second straight season, or Alonzo Mourning, or, heck, even Rik Smits and some others), so Kurt Thomas would have needed to play major minutes. (And even then, Kurt Thomas was not a "true center," either.) Many Phoenix fans wanted that bigger lineup, but the Nash-led offense did not function nearly as efficiently and explosively with it.

The '92-'93 Suns were much better defensively (ninth in Defensive Rating) than the subsequent Barkley teams, largely because Kevin Johnson's defense that year was not just good or solid—as it was throughout his career—but special. Few, if any, starting point guards have played defense as effectively as he did that season.

In a direct match-up between the '92-'93 Suns and the '06-'07 Suns, I would take the '92-'93 Suns pretty easily. Both clubs led the NBA in Offensive Rating (points scored per possession), but the 1993 team was superior defensively, much better on the boards, and much deeper.

A direct match-up between the '94-'95 Suns and the '06-'07 Suns would have probably resulted in one wild shootout after another. If push came to shove, I would give the '94-'95 club a slight advantage because of experience, depth (there it is again), and rebounding (again). Barkley was a better rebounder than anyone on the '06-'07 team. Only Marion would have had a consistent chance against him on the boards, but even there, Barkley was much stronger and far more powerful. Kurt Thomas was too slow at that point in his career to keep Sir Charles off the glass, and Stoudemire was a chump in terms of rebounding compared to Barkley. Also keep in mind that the '94-'95 team featured A.C. Green, who would have also attacked Stoudemire on the glass. Green averaged 12.0 rebounds per game during the 1995 playoffs while starting at forward alongside Barkley, who averaged 13.4. In Game Five of the 1995 Western Conference Semifinals versus the Rockets, Green and Barkley each corralled 20 caroms.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199505160PHO.html

That said, my list of the three best teams in Phoenix history would include the '92-'93 Suns and then two teams that featured neither Barkley nor Nash—again, another topic for another day.

[GMATCallahan]

Of course, what most folks do not understand is that some of the pre-Barkley Phoenix teams were probably better, at the end of the day, than some of the Barkley teams.

And that is a topic for another day.

I've mentioned this a bit, but I think the vast majority of people on this forum became fans either during the Barkley days partially because of him, or during the SSOL days, so I'm not sure how many saw the pre Barkley teams.

That 89-90 team that took out Stockton/Malone in 5 and then Magic/Worthy and company in 5 and had a very close series against the Blazers in the WCF (may have beat them in overall pt differential in the series) may have had a better chance of beating the Pistons in the finals than the Blazers did.

... yeah, I plan on circling back to some of those other threads for in-depth discussions on these points.

For the record, the Suns out-scored the Blazers by 34 points in the 1990 Western Conference Finals. I am not sure that Phoenix would have beaten Detroit, but the Suns possessed the personnel to match up with Detroit's three-guard offense.

[bwgood77]

Who do you think would win a series between the 94-95 Suns (I thought this was the best version of that group) or the 06-07 Suns (again, I thought this was the best version of that group)?

That's tough, I'd probably lean towards the 94-95 group, but only slightly as I give them the nod on defense. Although depending on how they played Barkley, a trio of KT, Amare, and Matrix should be able to hold their own on the glass you would think against the smaller Barkley, but Barkley just out hustled and out muscled bigger players all the time. Majerle would probably have a ton of open looks against that 06-07 Suns defense.

Think the big match up would be KJ on Nash. I always saw KJ as one of the greatest who had injuries derail his career. I could see KJ just giving Nash fits with his defense and physical offense style. Just my opinion of course.

Relative to the league, the '06-'07 Suns were actually better defensively than the '94-'95 Suns, ranking thirteenth (among thirty teams) in Defensive Rating (points allowed per possession) compared to nineteenth (among twenty-seven teams) for the earlier club. Indeed, the Suns lost Game Seven of the 1995 Western Conference Semifinals at home to Houston when they allowed 74 points in the second half.

Of course, that point may be moot since the NBA had changed so much by '06-'07. Frankly, even D'Antoni may not have been willing or able to play his "small lineups" for long stretches against the teams with the superstar centers. Amar'e Stoudemire, for instance, would have had absolutely no chance against a peak Hakeem Olajuwon (or a peak David Robinson, or a prime Patrick Ewing, or a young Shaquille O'Neal already averaging nearly thirty points per game for the second straight season, or Alonzo Mourning, or, heck, even Rik Smits and some others), so Kurt Thomas would have needed to play major minutes. (And even then, Kurt Thomas was not a "true center," either.) Many Phoenix fans wanted that bigger lineup, but the Nash-led offense did not function nearly as efficiently and explosively with it.

The '92-'93 Suns were much better defensively than the subsequent Barkley teams (ninth in Defensive Rating), largely because Kevin Johnson's defense that year was not just good or solid—as it was throughout his career—but special. Few, if any, starting point guards have played defense the way that he did that season.

In a direct match-up between the '92-'93 Suns and the '06-'07 Suns, I would take the '92-'93 Suns pretty easily. Both clubs led the NBA in Offensive Rating (points scored per possession), but the 1993 team was superior defensively, much better on the boards, and much deeper.

A direct match-up between the '94-'95 Suns and the '06-'07 Suns would have probably resulted in one wild shootout after another. If push came to shove, I would give the '94-'95 club a slight advantage because of experience, depth (there it is again), and rebounding (again). Barkley was a better rebounder than anyone on the '06-'07 team. Only Marion would have had a consistent chance against him on the boards, but even there, Barkley was much stronger and far more powerful. Kurt Thomas was too slow at that point in his career to keep Sir Charles off the glass, and Stoudemire was a chump in terms of rebounds compared to Barkley. Also keep in mind that the '94-'95 team additionally featured A.C. Green, who would have also attacked Stoudemire on the glass. Green averaged 12.0 rebounds per game during the 1995 playoffs while starting at forward alongside Barkley, who averaged 13.4. In Game Five of the 1995 Western Conference Semifinals versus the Rockets, Green and Barkley each corralled 20 caroms.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199505160PHO.html

That said, my list of the three best teams in Phoenix history would include the '92-'93 Suns and then two teams that featured neither Barkley nor Nash—again, another topic for another day.

Well I will be certainly interested to hear which other two Suns teams were in the top 3. I would have to guess two of them that featured KJ, but I am curious.

[bwgood77]

I actually became a fan I believe in '98. I was in third grade and some reason got really into basketball this year. Followed the Suns because they were the only team on and I lived in Phoenix.

I became a big fan around the time KJ arrived, but remember I did have a poster as a little kid with Ronnie Lee, Don Buse, Garfield Heard, Truck Robinson, Paul Westphal and maybe Walter Davis. At that point I didn't have any idea what was going on though really.

How many of these guys have you heard of?

[Qwigglez]

I actually became a fan I believe in '98. I was in third grade and some reason got really into basketball this year. Followed the Suns because they were the only team on and I lived in Phoenix.

I became a big fan around the time KJ arrived, but remember I did have a poster as a little kid with Ronnie Lee, Don Buse, Garfield Heard, Truck Robinson, Paul Westphal and maybe Walter Davis. At that point I didn't have any idea what was going on though really.

How many of these guys have you heard of?

Only heard of Westphal and Walter Davis, but I never really watched any games that weren't live so I never saw those guys play. My only memory of KJ was when he came out of retirement to play for the Suns because Kidd was hurt. I thought that was awesome. I also remember him being inducted into the Suns Ring of Honor I believe and we were playing the Kings and we were up by I think 20 at halftime and they came back to beat us. I was pissed. I think I was at a Filipino party with my Mom and I was listening to the game on a radio in their garage. I remember KJ saying something during his speech at halftime along the lines of let's come back out here and whoop these guys. I knew as soon as he said that something bad was going to happen.

[GMATCallahan]

One point that I want to make about the '92-'93 Suns vis-a-vis the current Warriors is that Phoenix went a league-best 62-20 even though Kevin Johnson missed 33 games. The majority of those missed games came early in the season (he missed 18 of Phoenix's first 22 regular season contests) after he suffered an undiagnosed sports hernia (a tear in his abdominal wall) during the preseason while attempting to lift obese rookie center Oliver Miller, who had found a way to 'trick' the Suns' scale and was packing way over 300 pounds on his 6'7" body. (Miller's listed NBA height was 6'9", but TNT listed his height at 6'7" on draft night in June 1992; Miller did not suddenly grow two inches, at the age of twenty-three, over the summer.) Later in the season, the Suns placed Miller on the Injured List and enrolled him as a hospital outpatient in order to reduce his weight.

Fortunately, the Suns' softest stretch of their schedule coincided with K.J. missing 18 of Phoenix's first 22 games, and the Suns were thus able to grind out a long string of narrow victories by playing through Charles Barkley in the post. But if K.J. had not missed 33 games, the Suns likely would have reached at least 65 wins, possibly more, especially because Phoenix clinched the best record in the NBA with about a week and a half remaining in the regular season. Around that time, Westphal started holding K.J. out of the second game of back-to-back sets, Barkley spent a five-game stint on the Injured List with a shoulder strain, and Westphal eventually dubbed the remaining handful of contests "exhibition games." (Ten years later in 2003, Barkley stated that even though Phoenix would reach the NBA Finals, the team never quite recaptured its peak rhythm after that "exhibition" period at the end of the regular season.)

Then consider that Golden State would be less likely to feature such an astounding record in that NBA compared to this one, simply because there were twenty-seven teams as opposed to thirty and almost everyone in the NBA back then had spent three or four years in college. The combination of further expansion and players entering the NBA prematurely has led to a situation where there are clearly too many teams for the talent pool, which allows an exceptional club such as Golden State to run up a historically dizzying record. Similarly, the fact that the '95-'96 Bulls won a record 72 games in the same year that the NBA added two new expansion teams is not a coincidence. That Chicago club was not necessarily better than, say, the 67-win 1986 Celtics or the 65-win 1987 Lakers, but they could inflate their record via a softened context. Around that time, top prospects were starting to enter the NBA after two years of college or even directly out of high school, and we are now at the apex of those trends: the league is bloated by too many teams (now thirty after another expansion in 2004) filled by too many guys who still ought to be learning the game in college.

Thus even if giving the Warriors all the respect in the world, one could not assume that they would have been more than a 65-win team circa '92-'93, and that year's Phoenix team easily could have been at least a 65-win team had K.J. not suffered the undiagnosed sports hernia during the preseason and/or if the end of the regular season had not become a bit screwy. Indeed, in the last 42 regular season games where Charles Barkley and Kevin Johnson played together in '92-'93, the Suns went 35-7 (.833), a 68-win pace over 82 games.

I would also note that combining the regular season and the NBA Finals, the 1993 Suns went 3-1 in Chicago, home of Michael Jordan and the two-time defending champion Chicago Bulls, with the only loss coming when Westphal (a rookie head coach in the NBA) made some dubious strategic decisions and Jordan scored 55 points in Game Four of the NBA Finals. Even then, the Suns only lost by five points and trailed by two with under twenty seconds to play.

Of course, the Suns went 0-4 in Phoenix versus the Bulls that year, combining the regular season and the NBA Finals, making for perhaps the strangest ever head-to-head results among two NBA Finals opponents. That year, the Suns and the Bulls met a total of eight times and the home team won only once.

[Bogyo]

Great write on that history GMAT!
Still wish Cedric was healthy for that series.

[thamadkant]

Regarding older eras vs today's era.

Today, 3pt plays are probably 30% to 50% of the coaches plays.. compared to old eras, where its the last resort and only when needed (down 2 with no chance of a dribble into paint and shoot).


Phil Jackson mentioned Abdrul-Rauf as comparable player to Curry... and based on game style... he isnt far off.

Curry is Rauf on steroids... mainly because Curry IS NOT scared to jack those shots, he WANTS to jack those shots because he is 100% confident.

Players of the past WOULD never shoot 30 foot shots, because even if they nail it, the coach will yank them to the side. Heck, Popovic would do that today... and other coaches too.

Curry embraces, because he has practiced that shot and KNOWS he can make them.


Well, imagine a player like Abdul Rauf, being told that "its OK" for him to take a couple of 30 footers in a game.. And the coach setting him up for open looks at the 3pt line and ENCOURAGED to take 15 of them if he has enough open space.
He'd be a star today too... since he was a nice player back then.


Curry is unbelievable... the shots he has mastered were or are considered circus shots... shots you play during a HORSE game or to win a car... but he is skilled and has the confidence and green light to do it.

Defenses are still guarding him like a normal shooter. Curry steps back 3-4 feet from the 3pt line and thats what he wants.... against other shooters, defenders do "well" by making them take a few steps back... but Curry.. its his shot. You have to stick to him and even take him out of rhythm by sending him to the FT at random plays.... make him play under unfamiliar situations.
Thats the one thing coaches and defenders dont do... they fall to Curry's traps. He is a legendary shooter.


In the next couple of years, I expect tagger defenders will be allocated to him, as in body him up every single step inside the half court line.... and foul him rather than get him into rhythm.. maybe 2-3 players on the team designated to do this. 3pt shooters like Curry are breaking the foundation of the game, where plays are setup to get to the best places to score... inside the paint under the ring.... hence big men who can score are stars. But Curry is giving birth to players who will practice thousand of hours shooting hail mary shots from 25+ feet out.... defenses will adapt... currently, they havent... and Curry is dominating bar none.

[DirtyDez]

I'll take the Warriors... 94' was the best chance the Suns had to win a championship and they choked. They can blame the UnbeataBulls in 93' and injuries in 95' but had no excuse to blow it in between. Marjerle was awful that series too.