2016-17 Phoenix Suns Preseason Thread

[MrMiyagi]

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Archie might have the ugliest swing I've ever seen lol

How can you not love Archie after that, though?

[NavLDO]

Knight/Len/Goodwin for Aldridge.

Len gives them a young big that they are lacking. Him and Gasol would flip spots, Len at C and Gasol at PF. For some reason Knight seems like a SA/Tony Parker type player to me. Scoring the ball and doing the other intangibles (Steals/rebounds/assists). Compairing them both at 5 years in the league:
TP: 18.9 Points, 5.8 assists, 3.3 rebounds, 1 steal.
BK: 19.6 Points, 5.1 assists, 3.9 rebounds, 1.2 steals

Pretty damn close. Its time for them to bring Parker off the bench with Ginobilli and upgrade their starting PG spot (and Mills is not the guy).

Yes. Something like this is the only thing I'd consider. To me, if we offered this pkg, and maybe a pick, it would likely be a win/win for both teams. The Spurs would likely magically make Knight and Len borderline All-Stars, while we can't get consistent production from either for even a week.

For us, we could pitch to LMA that he will be 'the man' down low at the 5, (or the 4 if we think we can develop Chriss as a 5, but then, we waste his 3PT ability, IMO; I'm not a big believer in the 'stretch 5' concept). LMA has little range, so he's best as a 5, IMO. If that doesn't make him happy, then forget about it. To me, it's worth reaching out (not sure if legal or not) to his agent to see how he'd feel about being our 5 for the next 3-4 years, at a minimum. If he's good with that, playing with his bud, Chandler, and playing for his bud, Watson, then I'd be ok giving up Len (though you all know how badly I want Len to pan out, so it's tough for me to say this).

But I DO think there are 5 guys that are untouchable--Booker, Warren, Bender, Chriss, and Ulis--the last 3 because giving them up before we know what we have would be idiotic, IMO...ESPECIALLY, the #4 and #8 overall picks. The 1st two due to obvious reasons; Warren is coming into his own, and Booker, well, yeah...but everyone else is fair game; even EB if LMA is the prize.

[NavLDO]

Knight/Len/Goodwin for Aldridge.

Len gives them a young big that they are lacking. Him and Gasol would flip spots, Len at C and Gasol at PF. For some reason Knight seems like a SA/Tony Parker type player to me. Scoring the ball and doing the other intangibles (Steals/rebounds/assists). Compairing them both at 5 years in the league:
TP: 18.9 Points, 5.8 assists, 3.3 rebounds, 1 steal.
BK: 19.6 Points, 5.1 assists, 3.9 rebounds, 1.2 steals

Pretty damn close. Its time for them to bring Parker off the bench with Ginobilli and upgrade their starting PG spot (and Mills is not the guy).

Of course I would do this trade. Knight is expendable. Goodwin is a non-factor, and Len for Alderidge is an easy choice. The Spurs are going to want two of Bender, Booker, Chriss. Count on it. Thats a no deal in my book.

Well, people in Hell want two of three of ice, water, and A/C, but well, you know how the rest of that 'modified' saying goes...

...if McD trades even ONE of them, I jump on Frank's 'fire McD' Train...hell, I become the Engineer of it!!

[batsmasher]

Archie is off the trade table after that stellar golfing performance.

Seriously though, I didn't know he had it in him to be that funny.

[NavLDO]

I love those "let's trade players we don't want for a star" discussions.

To a point, I agree, but it's not as if Len and Knight haven't shown that they have NBA, starter-level talent; some times, GMs feel they can develop players better than they have been, and both are still pretty darn young. Then Goodwin STILL holds some promise, and hella athleticism, and is still younger than a good number of rookies this year.

I think if we sweeten the pot some...maybe one of the MIA picks, SA has to realize they do not pick in the lottery, or even teens all that often, and they are an aging group, so that might seal the deal for them to trade away LMA...IDK, but again, this isn't your standard "we want to trade away trash for a star"; all 3 have potential value, depending on how Pops feels about them.

[letsgosuns]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/article/With-trade-rumors-surfacing-Aldridge-s-future-9981115.php

That is a San Antonio newspaper saying they are hearing from their own sources that Aldridge is available.

Here are some interesting quotes from the article:

"The Express-News has been informed by a league source the Spurs are open to trading the former Longhorn should the right package surface. Those within the Spurs refuted the suggestion, saying no talks have occurred with any team."

"Those close to the situation suggest Aldridge may not be happy at the moment. The belief is the Spurs pitched him on becoming the center of their offense when they recruited him in 2015, and that hasn't occurred with the rise of Kawhi Leonard. However, a team source said there are currently no problems with Aldridge, adding he is apart of the Spurs' future."

"Could the Phoenix Suns re-emerge as a potential suitor for Aldridge's services? Head coach Earl Watson played with Aldridge in Portland and the two are said to be close. Maybe Danny Ainge would unload some of those draft picks in a deal to bring Aldridge to Boston."

[NavLDO]

Spoiler:

I'm neutral to the prospect of going after LMA in a trade. I do think some people here are downplaying LMA's impact and maybe overvaluing our rookies a little though.

On one hand, he's the caliber of player that we hope Bender and Chriss develop into: Top 5 in his position, Top 25 in the league. Sacrificing one of them for immediate success while retaining the other to develop into that type of player for the future wouldn't be the worst play by us. It makes us a competitor for the playoffs (even if we're not title contenders), his game should age gracefully considering he never was one to rely on his athleticism, and he's already got a good relationship with Watson. Marquese soaking up LMA's skills and putting them to use with his athletic ability would be a sight to see. I get the disdain for moving Bender/Chriss for him, they are the Spurs, but we can't overvalue them either and act like they're guaranteed to reach the level that LMA is at either, they were 2 of the bigger boom-or-bust candidates in the draft for a reason, just because they joined the team we're fans of doesn't mean we shouldn't look at them objectively.

On the other hand, LMA is approaching the end of his career, and if we give up too much for him to win now, then we're just further stunting ourselves in the future. It would kind of suck for us to narrowly miss out on him in free agency, only to give up an asset to finally bring him in when we could have for nothing just a year ago. Also, giving a high ceiling prospect like Bender/Chriss to one of the best player development programs in the league is just asking for them to develop into great players and come back to bite us in the ass for the duration of their careers there. Making that move kind of goes against the whole youth movement with mentors guiding them to success movement that our franchise has been pushing all offseason.

I'd lean toward not trading with the Spurs, but I'd understand if we pursued it too.

I like this balanced opinion. I too feel some posters on the board lean too far on either side.

We really honestly don't know what we have in Bender/Chriss. They have promise but those could end up being nothing more than the 7th or 8th man off the bench in their career. What your'e trading for is a known and productive asset for potential. So I think it's a valid question to ask whether you think Bender/Chriss would ever have the impact LMA has now and in the near future. If not, then it makes sense to move one for LMA. Then we also need to consider whether we're in the right place to have a veteran like LMA on our team. I think the answer to that right now is no, but the season after could be a different story. Then the last thing to consider is whether LMA would be content if he knew Booker is an up and coming young star who could become THE MAN during his time with us.

Considering everything, I would be ecstatic to have LMA on board but I wouldn't be unhappy if we didn't go after him at all. I expect McD to do his due diligence considering he went hard last offseason trying to sign him.

I think LMA is a worth person to pursue (though if he was unhappy in Portland on a good team, and now unhappy on the Spurs who were a great team, I can't imagine how happy he'd be on the Suns despite the Watson/Chandler connection).

But the facts as I see them are:

We don't have the trade assets that the Spurs would want. You know Pop wants to compete. They won, what 67 games last year? They are going to trade Aldridge for Len and Knight? Even if we did offer TWO of the Booker/Bender/Chriss combo I don't think that's what they are looking for.

They are a good team who IF they were to trade him (which I believe is simply speculation that I think gains WAY too much traction in this day and age), they will want a premier player or two VERY good players in return. Although I'm not sure he seems like a Pop type player, Blake Griffin would be the kind of player they'd be after. Not, Len and Knight or Bender or Chriss or even Booker.

They also have Pau Gasol, so they don't appear to be anywhere near rebuilding mode and if they EVER decide to go that route, I think that is when Pop call it a career to keep his stellar coaching record intact, and it's just probably not something he wants at this point in time.

I mean everything about him even being traded, but them liking what WE would have to offer, doesn't make sense.

But I haven't mentioned the biggest thing yet. Where does that really get us? Do you really want to slow down Bender and/or Chriss development or trade one of them so we can hopefully get a 6th seed for a couple of years IF Bledsoe's knee holds up?

It makes little sense for the Suns imo but less since for the Spurs.

Personally I wouldn't pursue him not only because I like where we are and I am sick of trying to rebuild and compete at the same time, but I would HATE to give up Booker or one of our young PFs which it would surely take IF it ever happened (and that would likely be in some sort of 3 way deal). But as letsgosuns has said, I can't see them giving up these guys, particularly for a guy who decided against coming to our team.

I'm happy with the team and am really tired of knee jerk trades creating uncertainty, unhappiness, destroying any chemistry we have, etc.

It seems like McD has learned his lesson after his first botched draft and the Dragic/Thomas/Knight fiasco, and then allowing the Morris situation to fester long enough to destroy a year. LUCKILY, the pick we got for Kieff, played a big part in getting us Chriss, so in the end it was worth it, but it was sure a painful way to get there.

I think that's a bit harsh to say it was a 'botched' draft; Len and Goodwin aren't 'done deals' yet in the NBA talent department. And remember, that was a weak draft to begin with. Just because a couple of players further down the draft board have 'hit', doesn't mean he 'botched' the draft. Look at the rest of the class in the Top 10. And had McD selected Adams or Gobert over Len, at the time, he'd have been 'skewered'. Again, hindsight is 20/20, but at the time, Len was a potential #1 overall pick, and Goodwin was looked at as McD stealing him away from a few other GMs that were really hoping he'd fall a pick or two further down. He navigated the draft just fine that year' Len and Goodwin not panning out as we hoped isn't all on the GM...there's some coaching failures going on in there as well.

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

I like this balanced opinion. I too feel some posters on the board lean too far on either side.

We really honestly don't know what we have in Bender/Chriss. They have promise but those could end up being nothing more than the 7th or 8th man off the bench in their career. What your'e trading for is a known and productive asset for potential. So I think it's a valid question to ask whether you think Bender/Chriss would ever have the impact LMA has now and in the near future. If not, then it makes sense to move one for LMA. Then we also need to consider whether we're in the right place to have a veteran like LMA on our team. I think the answer to that right now is no, but the season after could be a different story. Then the last thing to consider is whether LMA would be content if he knew Booker is an up and coming young star who could become THE MAN during his time with us.

Considering everything, I would be ecstatic to have LMA on board but I wouldn't be unhappy if we didn't go after him at all. I expect McD to do his due diligence considering he went hard last offseason trying to sign him.

I think LMA is a worth person to pursue (though if he was unhappy in Portland on a good team, and now unhappy on the Spurs who were a great team, I can't imagine how happy he'd be on the Suns despite the Watson/Chandler connection).

But the facts as I see them are:

We don't have the trade assets that the Spurs would want. You know Pop wants to compete. They won, what 67 games last year? They are going to trade Aldridge for Len and Knight? Even if we did offer TWO of the Booker/Bender/Chriss combo I don't think that's what they are looking for.

They are a good team who IF they were to trade him (which I believe is simply speculation that I think gains WAY too much traction in this day and age), they will want a premier player or two VERY good players in return. Although I'm not sure he seems like a Pop type player, Blake Griffin would be the kind of player they'd be after. Not, Len and Knight or Bender or Chriss or even Booker.

They also have Pau Gasol, so they don't appear to be anywhere near rebuilding mode and if they EVER decide to go that route, I think that is when Pop call it a career to keep his stellar coaching record intact, and it's just probably not something he wants at this point in time.

I mean everything about him even being traded, but them liking what WE would have to offer, doesn't make sense.

But I haven't mentioned the biggest thing yet. Where does that really get us? Do you really want to slow down Bender and/or Chriss development or trade one of them so we can hopefully get a 6th seed for a couple of years IF Bledsoe's knee holds up?

It makes little sense for the Suns imo but less since for the Spurs.

Personally I wouldn't pursue him not only because I like where we are and I am sick of trying to rebuild and compete at the same time, but I would HATE to give up Booker or one of our young PFs which it would surely take IF it ever happened (and that would likely be in some sort of 3 way deal). But as letsgosuns has said, I can't see them giving up these guys, particularly for a guy who decided against coming to our team.

I'm happy with the team and am really tired of knee jerk trades creating uncertainty, unhappiness, destroying any chemistry we have, etc.

It seems like McD has learned his lesson after his first botched draft and the Dragic/Thomas/Knight fiasco, and then allowing the Morris situation to fester long enough to destroy a year. LUCKILY, the pick we got for Kieff, played a big part in getting us Chriss, so in the end it was worth it, but it was sure a painful way to get there.

I think that's a bit harsh to say it was a 'botched' draft; Len and Goodwin are 'done deals' yet in the NBA talent department. And remember, that was a weak draft to begin with. Just because a couple of players further down the draft board have 'hit', doesn't mean he 'botched' the draft. Look at the rest of the class in the Top 10. And had McD selected Adams or Gobert over Len, at the time, he'd have been 'skewered'. Again, hindsight is 20/20, but at the time, Len was a potential #1 overall pick, and Goodwin was looked at as McD stealing him away from a few other GMs that were really hoping he'd fall a pick or two further down. He navigated the draft just fine that year' Len and Goodwin not panning out as we hoped isn't all on the GM...there's some coaching failures going on in there as well.

I agree that the draft sucks and many predicted Len would go very high, perhaps even first. But a real savvy draft guy maybe takes a guy like Adams, or better yet Gobert, who many teams passed on, so I understand he is an unexpected surprise. Goodwin was an ok flyer for a late pick, but better people went after them.

Not sure what they thought of Noel and the injury concerns, but he was also preseason #1 before getting injured.

I'm surprised you finally are saying Len is a done deal though. I still have some hope, and maybe he just needs to focus on rebounding and blocking shots. Work on defense. Maybe his offensive game comes with time. Plenty of guys (Chandler for example) have made big impacts without providing much on offense their whole careers. Bogut too. And of course, Rodman.

[Fo-Real]

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Archie might have the ugliest swing I've ever seen lol

How can you not love Archie after that, though?

Because his unwillingness to learn the proper way to even hold the club is indicative of his unwillingness to improve the shortcomings of his basketball game. Much like golf, he should be embarrassed and ultra motivated, but HE DONT CARE! lol, half kidding!

[ATTL]

Archie doesn't listen to coaching

[gaspar]

Read on Twitter

[Qwigglez]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/article/With-trade-rumors-surfacing-Aldridge-s-future-9981115.php

That is a San Antonio newspaper saying they are hearing from their own sources that Aldridge is available.

Here are some interesting quotes from the article:

"The Express-News has been informed by a league source the Spurs are open to trading the former Longhorn should the right package surface. Those within the Spurs refuted the suggestion, saying no talks have occurred with any team."

"Those close to the situation suggest Aldridge may not be happy at the moment. The belief is the Spurs pitched him on becoming the center of their offense when they recruited him in 2015, and that hasn't occurred with the rise of Kawhi Leonard. However, a team source said there are currently no problems with Aldridge, adding he is apart of the Spurs' future."

"Could the Phoenix Suns re-emerge as a potential suitor for Aldridge's services? Head coach Earl Watson played with Aldridge in Portland and the two are said to be close. Maybe Danny Ainge would unload some of those draft picks in a deal to bring Aldridge to Boston."

Maybe he realizes he will just be another name on a jersey in San Antonio? He should have just stayed in Portland. I wouldn't offer much for LMA. Knight/Len and Miami's 2018 pick is about it. But then again, I already like the way Chriss is progressing. If we are battling around .500 ball in the beginning of January and the Spurs aren't performing as well as they'd like I'd give them a call. If we are struggling to win games, then don't bother. I'd rather shoot for a high draft pick.

[Jdiddy701]

When is the deadline for the Suns to extend Len?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Jarlaxle0204]

I don't think this is going to happen of course and believe this is just a rumor but I might as well do some trade rosterbating:

PHX out: Bledsoe and Len
PHX in: Amir Johnson, Terry Rozier, Nets 2017 1st

SAS out: Aldridge
SAS in: Bledsoe, Len, James Young

Bos out: Amir Johnson, Terry Rozier, James Young, and Nets 2017 1st
Bos in: Aldridge

We trade our best player not named Booker and young center for basically the Nets 2017 1st. Johnson only has one more year left on his deal as well which would open up more cap flexibility for next year as well while Rozier could fill in as a backup PG while we move BK to the starting PG. We could then have two probably top 5 picks next year and be able to draft a new PG of the future and hopefully a SF or C and use the remaining money in FA to fill in the other hole.

San Antonio does this if Aldridge wants out. Pop doesn't want picks, he wants people that can help him win now. Bledsoe would be a huge upgrade at the PG spot at this time with Parker's effectiveness lessening. Len is a big body replacement that could work well in the right situation (I still believe in him) and might work nicely next to Pau. Young might need a change of scenery and is used basically to make it work in the trade machine.

Boston overpays for Aldridge here but that's what you have to do sometimes to get an all star. They keep their core basically intact here though and adding Aldridge to Brown and Horford on the frontline becomes legitimately scary for Cleveland and a real threat in the east.

Just a thought.

[gaspar]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Archie might have the ugliest swing I've ever seen lol

Is Lindsey our new Espo? Looks like a huge upgrade.

[gaspar]

Read on Twitter

[gaspar]

I wonder who the Grizzlies will keep as their 15th player for this season. They currently have 13 guaranteed contracts and will certainly keep JaMychal Green as the 14th guy on the team. That means they can keep only one out of VC (owed $4M for next year, $2M guaranteed), Troy Williams and DJ Stephens. I think I would prefer Troy or DJ over Jenkins or Jones Jr. on the Suns for the next season.

[bwgood77]

I wonder who the Grizzlies will keep as their 15th player for this season. They currently have 13 guaranteed contracts and will certainly keep JaMychal Green as the 14th guy on the team. That means they can keep only one out of VC (owed $4M for next year, $2M guaranteed), Troy Williams and DJ Stephens. I think I would prefer Troy or DJ over Jenkins or Jones Jr. on the Suns for the next season.

I liked Troy and he's leading the rookies in scoring in the preseason (or was), barely beating out Chriss, though I also read they had played the most minutes and Chriss had taken the most shots.

I sure have heard some good things about Derrick Jones, Jr here though. But I'd be happy with him or Troy.

[NavLDO]

Knight's 24 and moving to a new position, I think he still has a lot to learn. Bledsoe, well, maybe that's wishful thinking on my part. There's a lot he still needs to learn but maybe he's just all he'll ever be. But I'm not convinced. I know Nash, for example, improved well into his late 20's and he was always a smart player. And while minutes are not everything, Kobe had played more minutes by the time that he'd turned 22 than Bledsoe has logged for his career thus far. It's cliched but there is no substitute for experience.

The other issue, is if we trade Knight, it needs to be for a traditional PG, because the chances are 50/50 that EB ends up injured for a significant amount of time. If we trade Knight an do not get a PG in return, that leaves Ulis and whatever scrub we can sign off the street, or enter into a lopsided trade with another team to get a PG.

UNLESS...any of you all believe that Booker could run the Point some like he did in SL. Ulis is not ready for primetime, so we need to either keep Knight, or the best option? Trade him for an "average" veteran PG who won't mind falling in behind EB when he comes back.

We don't though. Just get the best possible return regardless of position. Given our draft history I'd probably prefer picks to players. This draft coming up has lots of PGs, and we aren't contending this year so no need to grab a stopgap traditional PG to win games now if it means sacrificing a better future asset.

That's a fair point also. LB, Booker, Ulis, and even Goodwin, if still on the team, together could probably cover for an injured Bledsoe, in that scenario. And yes, we aren't competing without EB at any cost, anywho, so if Knight brings back some other piece of value regardless of position, then sure.

I've also kind of changed my tune on getting players we have good depth at; really, it doesn't matter. A good SF is worth more than an average PG, so forcing the issue on a certain position is probably a bad idea. Same notion with the draft. Just take BPA, and let the chips fall where they may, UNLESS we absolutely need, say, a Center, and the next best Center on the board is not more than a one or two spots lower on the 'BPA-list'.

[NavLDO]

Spoiler:

I think LMA is a worth person to pursue (though if he was unhappy in Portland on a good team, and now unhappy on the Spurs who were a great team, I can't imagine how happy he'd be on the Suns despite the Watson/Chandler connection).

But the facts as I see them are:

We don't have the trade assets that the Spurs would want. You know Pop wants to compete. They won, what 67 games last year? They are going to trade Aldridge for Len and Knight? Even if we did offer TWO of the Booker/Bender/Chriss combo I don't think that's what they are looking for.

They are a good team who IF they were to trade him (which I believe is simply speculation that I think gains WAY too much traction in this day and age), they will want a premier player or two VERY good players in return. Although I'm not sure he seems like a Pop type player, Blake Griffin would be the kind of player they'd be after. Not, Len and Knight or Bender or Chriss or even Booker.

They also have Pau Gasol, so they don't appear to be anywhere near rebuilding mode and if they EVER decide to go that route, I think that is when Pop call it a career to keep his stellar coaching record intact, and it's just probably not something he wants at this point in time.

I mean everything about him even being traded, but them liking what WE would have to offer, doesn't make sense.

But I haven't mentioned the biggest thing yet. Where does that really get us? Do you really want to slow down Bender and/or Chriss development or trade one of them so we can hopefully get a 6th seed for a couple of years IF Bledsoe's knee holds up?

It makes little sense for the Suns imo but less since for the Spurs.

Personally I wouldn't pursue him not only because I like where we are and I am sick of trying to rebuild and compete at the same time, but I would HATE to give up Booker or one of our young PFs which it would surely take IF it ever happened (and that would likely be in some sort of 3 way deal). But as letsgosuns has said, I can't see them giving up these guys, particularly for a guy who decided against coming to our team.

I'm happy with the team and am really tired of knee jerk trades creating uncertainty, unhappiness, destroying any chemistry we have, etc.

It seems like McD has learned his lesson after his first botched draft and the Dragic/Thomas/Knight fiasco, and then allowing the Morris situation to fester long enough to destroy a year. LUCKILY, the pick we got for Kieff, played a big part in getting us Chriss, so in the end it was worth it, but it was sure a painful way to get there.

I think that's a bit harsh to say it was a 'botched' draft; Len and Goodwin are 'done deals' yet in the NBA talent department. And remember, that was a weak draft to begin with. Just because a couple of players further down the draft board have 'hit', doesn't mean he 'botched' the draft. Look at the rest of the class in the Top 10. And had McD selected Adams or Gobert over Len, at the time, he'd have been 'skewered'. Again, hindsight is 20/20, but at the time, Len was a potential #1 overall pick, and Goodwin was looked at as McD stealing him away from a few other GMs that were really hoping he'd fall a pick or two further down. He navigated the draft just fine that year' Len and Goodwin not panning out as we hoped isn't all on the GM...there's some coaching failures going on in there as well.

I agree that the draft sucks and many predicted Len would go very high, perhaps even first. But a real savvy draft guy maybe takes a guy like Adams, or better yet Gobert, who many teams passed on, so I understand he is an unexpected surprise. Goodwin was an ok flyer for a late pick, but better people went after them.

Not sure what they thought of Noel and the injury concerns, but he was also preseason #1 before getting injured.

I'm surprised you finally are saying Len is a done deal though. I still have some hope, and maybe he just needs to focus on rebounding and blocking shots. Work on defense. Maybe his offensive game comes with time. Plenty of guys (Chandler for example) have made big impacts without providing much on offense their whole careers. Bogut too. And of course, Rodman.

I don't think he is a done deal at all, but if I'm lining up -- Len, Goodwin, Warren, Booker, Chriss, Bender, Ulis -- our remaining draft picks on the roster, and I list them in order of potential success, I do have to admit that Len and Goodwin fall to the bottom of that list. That's all I'm really saying. I'm still a staunch defender of the fact that Len could still pan out this season, but if the price was Len, Goodwin, and Knight for LMA, I'd be 'ok' with that deal. Any other draft pick of ours, and I'm not 'ok' with that.