Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion

Post #1 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:57 am

It's interesting that with all the talk of a Noel for Knight swap and also the talk of why we passed on Noel (rumors we were concerned about his knees not holding up through second contract), that this news came out this week.

Read on Twitter

He is also reported to be out 3-5 weeks, though some are saying until Ben Simmons comes back. So all the talk about comparing him to Len and taking him instead might be irrelevant if the rumors of passing on him for that reason is true. Also any talk about trading him for him obviously isn't realistic in that case either.

YouTube · Post #2 » by **Kerrsed** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:18 am

Hate to say it, but i'd STILL take Noel over Len.

Noel has provided more to the 76ers in the past 2 years than Len has given us in the past 3. Even going in for this "Minor surgery", id still trade them straight up for each other. The fact that a young 7 footer that was drafted with the 3rd pick still cant pass Tyson Chandlers corpse for the starting C spot is worrying. His best month last season (March) He averaged 13 points and 11 rebounds in 31 minutes. Out of those 11 rebounds, around 4 per game were offensive rebounds, coming from his abysmal 39% FG%. Yes you read that right, 39%. 39% is pretty damn bad for guards (Guys like Brandon Jennings get called out as chuckers for having a 39% FG%), but this is from a C. Less than 1 block per game from a 7 footer is just as crazy as well.

What i want from my C is a big guy that can patrol & control the paint. I want guards to think twice before taking it to the rim. Guys like Noel do that. They are shot blockers, and even if the dont get credited with a block, they cause the other teams offense to try different angles, force up bad shot, therefor impacting the shot takers. Give me the big guy who knows his role is to grab every rebound possible. Rebounds and defense is all i want in a C. We have plenty of guys who can score, and the C can too, but he can get his own offense off of offensive rebounds (And not off multiple offense rebounds from your own missed shot #YesLenImLookingAtYou).

Post #3 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:37 am

I'd take Noel in a heartbeat over Len too, if injuries were not a factor, but I'm just thinking maybe those rumors were true and needing an unexpected surgery because your knee hurts RIGHT before the season when he started playing, is not good. My point was just that if the rumors were true about the knees, and now suddenly this happens, it makes more sense that those rumors were probably true.

They won't trade for him if they already decided he wouldn't make it through the second contract with the knees, but even if they did, how do you decide how much to pay him? It will be interesting to see when he comes back this season and how well he plays.

And as head scratching as Len's shooting is, he is not chopped liver. He is active, and physical and rebounds. I don't think it's a matter of him beating how Chandler as much as us telling Chandler he would be the starter. Chandler better regardless as the vet if we are starting Booker and Warren.

OGBAH · Post #4 » by **OGBAH** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:38 am

Isn't this Len's 3rd coach and system change and doesn't it take bigs more time for development? That's about as positive as I can get. He should start and won't be playing with Chandler out of position. Let's see how it goes till the deadline

OGBAH · Post #5 » by **OGBAH** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:41 am

Chandler should anchor the rooks with pj off the bench IMO as I guess barbs and knight are the 2nd unit chucker guards

MrMiyagi · Post #6 » by **MrMiyagi** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:54 am

OGBAH wrote:Isn't this Len's 3rd coach and system change and doesn't it take bigs more time for development? That's about as positive as I can get. He should start and won't be playing with Chandler out of position. Let's see how it goes till the deadline

That may be the case, but this is really a make or break year for Len here in Phoenix. I'm not entirely sure we sign him to big money this offseason if he puts up similar numbers to what he has been, especially in the FG% and Blocks departments.

Post #7 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:03 am

MrMiyagi wrote:
OGBAH wrote:Isn't this Len's 3rd coach and system change and doesn't it take bigs more time for development? That's about as positive as I can get. He should start and won't be playing with Chandler out of position. Let's see how it goes till the deadline

That may be the case, but this is really a make or break year for Len here in Phoenix. I'm not entirely sure we sign him to big money this offseason if he puts up similar numbers to what he has been, especially in the FG% and Blocks departments.

OGBAH does make a good point. I think we will re-sign Len barring a huge contract offer from another team, which I don't really expect, but you never know. I expect and hope for better things from him.

OGBAH · Post #8 » by **OGBAH** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:59 am

Your assignment for the weekend...Jenkins or Jones jr that is the question.
Due by Monday.

Ima go Jones more upside and we could trade Pj easy imo

gaspar · Post #9 » by **gaspar** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:09 am

Read on Twitter

Post #10 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:14 am

I wonder if they are working on a trade. It kind of sucks for these guys to wait to the last minute, but I think Derrick Jones Jr is a no brainer. We have too many guards.

Zelaznyrules · Post #11 » by **Zelaznyrules** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:22 am

bwgood77 wrote:I wonder if they are working on a trade. It kind of sucks for these guys to wait to the last minute, but I think Derrick Jones Jr is a no brainer. We have too many guards.

Even if we had a shortage of guards I'd consider Jones to be a no brainer. Maybe I'd think differently if I were up and close with these guys but from a distance, one seems to have impact potential (long shot but it's there) the other seems destined to be looking for his next basketball job every year.

DRK · Post #12 » by **DRK** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:31 am

OGBAH wrote:Isn't this Len's 3rd coach and system change and doesn't it take bigs more time for development? That's about as positive as I can get. He should start and won't be playing with Chandler out of position. Let's see how it goes till the deadline

If youre a point guard then yes.. But Len's role is to defend the paint, and finish easy buckets. And he cant do either well.

Zelaznyrules · Post #13 » by **Zelaznyrules** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:15 am

DRK wrote:
OGBAH wrote:Isn't this Len's 3rd coach and system change and doesn't it take bigs more time for development? That's about as positive as I can get. He should start and won't be playing with Chandler out of position. Let's see how it goes till the deadline

If youre a point guard then yes.. But Len's role is to defend the paint, and finish easy buckets. And he cant do either well.

This is true. What frustrates me though is that it wasn't always true. He showed signs of being effective down low on offense and dominant on defense. Where is that guy, what happened to him? Granted, he didn't play like that all the time but it seemed he was moving in that direction and then last season happened and it's been all downhill since then. Sure, he put up halfway decent numbers at times last year but he just wasn't then and isn't now the player he looked capable of becoming.

We need the player that Ryan, Hornacek, Chandler, Bledsoe and others raved about, not the Len impersonator we've been stuck with for quite awhile now. I have to believe he's still in there somewhere but if the chance to trade for a real center came along, or even a real center prospect, I'd jump on it and abandon the Len experiment. But until then, all we can do is hope the lightbulb will come on for Alex.

gaspar · Post #14 » by **gaspar** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:08 am

bwgood77 wrote:I wonder if they are working on a trade. It kind of sucks for these guys to wait to the last minute, but I think Derrick Jones Jr is a no brainer. We have too many guards.

It's not just Jones vs Jenkins tho. There are several interesting players who were waived last week (or will be waived today/tomorrow), who could possibly be added to the Suns as our 15th man.

Jordan Adams
DJ Stephens
JaKarr Sampson
Wayne Selden
Chris Johnson
John Holland
Axel Toupane
Jarrod Uthoff
Patricio Garino
Ben Bentil
James Young or RJ Hunter
Kyle Wiltjer ?

BTW, the infallible San Antonio Spurs just waived Livio Jean-Charles, their 2013 1st round pick whom they signed this summer to a rookie contract. He's turrible.

Zelaznyrules · Post #15 » by **Zelaznyrules** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:27 am

gaspar wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:I wonder if they are working on a trade. It kind of sucks for these guys to wait to the last minute, but I think Derrick Jones Jr is a no brainer. We have too many guards.

It's not just Jones vs Jenkins tho. There are several interesting players who were waived last week (or will be waived today/tomorrow), who could possibly be added to the Suns as our 15th man.

Jordan Adams
DJ Stephens
JaKarr Sampson
Wayne Selden
Chris Johnson
John Holland
Axel Toupane
Jarrod Uthoff
Patricio Garino
Ben Bentil
James Young or RJ Hunter
Kyle Wiltjer ?

BTW, the infallible San Antonio Spurs just waived Livio Jean-Charles, their 2013 1st round pick whom they signed this summer to a rookie contract. He's turrible.

There's a few names there I don't recognize but I'd give Kyle Wiltjer a try. If he's out of work it's a safe bet he hasn't improved his defense but he was pretty solid offensively in college and we probably need that more than we do another guard or wing.

Post #16 » by **batsmasher** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:29 am

gaspar wrote:BTW, the infallible San Antonio Spurs just waived Livio Jean-Charles, their 2013 1st round pick whom they signed this summer to a rookie contract. He's turrible.

Both he and Adams were on their rookie contract and suffered terrible knee injuries.

realEAST · Post #17 » by **realEAST** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:58 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
OGBAH wrote:Isn't this Len's 3rd coach and system change and doesn't it take bigs more time for development? That's about as positive as I can get. He should start and won't be playing with Chandler out of position. Let's see how it goes till the deadline

That may be the case, but this is really a make or break year for Len here in Phoenix. I'm not entirely sure we sign him to big money this offseason if he puts up similar numbers to what he has been, especially in the FG% and Blocks departments.

OGBAH does make a good point. I think we will re-sign Len barring a huge contract offer from another team, which I don't really expect, but you never know. I expect and hope for better things from him.

I've followed Suns sporadically past couple season, but just have a feel Len didn't have any real continuity so far, due to all the injuries. Last season with some consistency he put couple of good games even playing out of position and in system not fitting him (two Cs basically). I think he should look much better given consistency and time, along Bender and Chriss. Like the potential to be good two way C with some finesse on off.

JoRain · Post #18 » by **JoRain** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:54 pm

gaspar wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:I wonder if they are working on a trade. It kind of sucks for these guys to wait to the last minute, but I think Derrick Jones Jr is a no brainer. We have too many guards.

It's not just Jones vs Jenkins tho. There are several interesting players who were waived last week (or will be waived today/tomorrow), who could possibly be added to the Suns as our 15th man.

Jordan Adams
DJ Stephens
JaKarr Sampson
Wayne Selden
Chris Johnson
John Holland
Axel Toupane
Jarrod Uthoff
Patricio Garino
Ben Bentil
James Young or RJ Hunter
Kyle Wiltjer ?

BTW, the infallible San Antonio Spurs just waived Livio Jean-Charles, their 2013 1st round pick whom they signed this summer to a rookie contract. He's turrible.

Talking about San Antonio, I saw some of their pre season games and I really liked the Argentinian guy Garrino I think his name was, that they waved. With forwards on their roster, I don't think this guy stood a chance at sticking around.

Saberestar · Post #19 » by **Saberestar** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:06 pm

I prefer to have 14 players on our team with a roster spot available for a trade or a late signing.

Another reason is that I think it is better to concentrate our minutes and effort developing our young players, too many players sometimes creates confusion.

Frank Lee · Post #20 » by **Frank Lee** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:42 pm

If you can get Noel for Knight, you do it… Even if has a wooden goddamn leg..... That makes Len expendable as trade bait or you just sign one or the other next yr.

Furthermore, Imo, We don't need to add any cast off potentials. They aren't needle movers. Half our roster is made up of maybes as is.

Look at McDs blueprint he outlined prior to his first attempt at a rebuild. I have to think it's still in effect.... Sign or trade for a significant star, one who will be a first or second option. Now look around the league. I can't think of any possible acquisition outside of DMC that fits the bill. Cousins will have the leverage to demand a trade and as Sactown continues to plod on towards mediocrity, he will have the desire to get out. It won't be a money issue as he'll get the max offer from several teams if free agency is his path. It's up to McD to position us for a trade in the upcoming months, and get him here before the all out bid war begins.

Writing is being wrote on the wall in Cowbell land, and it says get max value for DMC before they get left with nothing.

I'd easily give up Bender, Knight, Warren and a pick for him now.... And that might not be enough. However, I find it no coincidence that we have Kentucky-fied our roster to entice DMC. Is there a better place for him?

Bledsoe, Booker, Dudley, Chris, and Boogie is a team I could get excited about. We, d even have a viable bench as well with Ulis, Barbs, Tuck, Chandler, Len(?) etc.

This is a great opportunity to bring a big buzz back to Phnx and vaults us into consideration to actually compete this year.

Other than that, might as well play out the year chugging along at tank speed