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NBA Draft 2024

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Re: College Basketball, the 2024 NBA Draft and the return of the Ghost of Kleine 

Post#61 » by RedIndian » Wed Feb 21, 2024 8:43 am

lilfishi22 wrote:Is Edey more or less mobile than Zubac?

From all accounts, Edey has significantly improved his conditioning and mobility this year. Not sure about Zubac, but he's probably more mobile than Nurk.

At 7'4 and 300 pounds, I think people shouldn't expect switchability. Guy will strictly be a drop defender in the NBA, but the guy is skilled and an absolute force. You could try and play him off the floor by going 5 out, but this IS a guy who will punish small ball.

From whatever I've read, the guy has a tremendous work ethic, was a multi-sport athlete, and started playing basketball only in about 2018. Coaches have been raving about his development. Those sorts typically do well.
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Re: GOKs' draft discussion thread..........Coming soon to a board near you!! 

Post#62 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Feb 21, 2024 3:36 pm

RedIndian wrote:
Crives wrote:I bet we trade the 2024 1st for a future 1st and multiple 2nds…. Giving us a two tradeable 1sts in the future + multiple 2nds.

Possible, but at some point we have to actually start drafting players and hope they can become part of the core. We can't aggregate salaries, so not sure what Little's 6.75 million salary + picks is going to get us.

Can't extend a championship window unless you develop young talent on the side. KD and Beal will get older - they won't keep contending if you surround them with older vets like Nurk, Royce or Thad. They'll need youth and athleticism next to them if they have any chance of extending their contention window.

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Exactly! We just can't keep trying to ride this thing into the ground until the wheels fall off while all the rest of the leagues' young talented core are entering there prime. Otherwise we'll become nothing more than a low level fringe lottery treadmill pretender team slowly descending back into the pits of lottery misery for even longer than before while Beal and Book do begin their inevitable age related declines. It would honestly be tantamount to racing a joloppy across country against a field of formula one cars, telling ourselves "Slow and steady wins the race"

And we finally cross the finish line as all of the rest of the competition is just finishing their lunches waiting to see if we even get there out of morbid curiousity. :o :lol: :banghead:
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Re: College Basketball, the 2024 NBA Draft and the return of the Ghost of Kleine 

Post#63 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Feb 21, 2024 3:50 pm

RedIndian wrote:Fwiw, this draft doesn't have high end talent, but in terms of mid and lower tiers of the draft, I don't think this is worse than any other draft. Should be able to find rotation players at the range we'll be picking in (likely between #18 to #22).

The prospects I like:

Bigs:

1. Zach Edey - being slept on because of concerns about his mobility, but people tend to ignore his durability and absurd production across 4 years in college. He's going to be an NBA rotation player. Worst case, I see him like a 7'4 Nurkic, which is a very very useful player.

2. Yves Missi - Clint Capela type with excellent athleticism and mobility. Offensively limited, but the success of the likes of Walker Kessler, Mark Williams, Jalen Duren shows that this archetype does tend to make an immediate impact in the NBA. Would be a very solid backup C by year 2 I would think.

3. PJ Hall - James Jones would love him. Daniel Theis archetype. 6'10, 240. Very tough and sets great screen. Very good three point shooter on the pick and pop, reasonable playmaker in the short roll and decent vertical pop as a drop defender. Not big enough or athletic enough to project as a full-time starter, but should be a solid backup big in the NBA.

You also have Clingan and Filipowski who've both been productive, but both have injury histories which I'd be wary of. Ulrich Chomche is very intriguing, but difficult to scout him given where he's playing. Classic boom-bust type.

Big Wings:

1. Tyler Smith - really like him as a fit for us. A bit like a lefty Jabari Smith. Jabari Smith is a much better defensive prospect, but I really like Tyler Smith's shooting mechanics. At 6'10, his jumper is really pure with a high release point, and he's shown good activity on the glass and as a weakside shot blocker. Think he'll be a very productive player in the NBA. Defense might take a while, but should be able to guard 4s and 5s eventually.

2. Ryan Dunn - absolute monster on the defensive end. Elite athlete at 6'8 with a 7'0 wingpsan. Terrific open court athleticism, great second jump, and has monstrous block and steal numbers. Easily the best defensive prospect in the class and I can't see a world where we won't be an NBA calibre defender. Unfortunately, he's very limited offensively, with terrible numbers from both the 3 and the FT line. But the defensive allure is really high - if he hits, he's going to be an all-defense type player.

3. Johnny Furphy - Trey Murphy III archetype. Long and rangy, excellent movement shooter and very active defender. Would love to get him, but I think he might go before our draft position.

Other prospects in our range would be Salaun (who I'm skeptical of), Klintman (not a good defender), Dillon Jones (productive but very unathletic), Ighodaro (not a shooter), Almansa (more a big - very skilled fundamentally, but a poor shooter)
The better prospects like Risacher, Buzelis and Holland should all go in the lottery.


Small Wings:

1. Dalton Knecht - classic James Jones pick. Maybe the best shooter in the class, and underrated vertical athlete. Not a great defender by any means though.

2. KyShawn George - Very interesting prospect who's basically a 6'8 guard. Good connective playmaker and good shooting numbers of 3. Quite lightweight though, so I think he'd struggle defensively. But the appeal of a wing who can shoot and pass is high. Might take some time to be impactful in the NBA though.

3. Kevin McCullar - 4 year college guy who'll be 23 by draft night. 6'6, 215 - so he has an NBA ready body. Intelligent player who defends well and is a solid passer and secondary ball hander. I don't buy his shooting though - I think he might struggle with NBA range. Jones would like his readiness to contribute physically, but I'd worry he's a Troy Brown Jr type who doesn't excel at anything in the NBA.

4. Melvin Ajinca - French prospect - cousin of Alexis Ajinca. 6'8 with a 6'11 wingspan. NBA ready body who's super strong and athletic. The tape I've seen of him - he's a very good on-ball defender, and I like his shooting form as well (lefty shooter). Ideal 3nD archetype, but his raw numbers on blocks, steals and even 3P% aren't too impressive.

5. Pacome Dadiet - another French prospect, who's similar in style to Kyshawn George. Intriguing shooting and passing upside, but very young and very raw. Will be a project.

Guards:

1. DJ Wagner - Wagner has been overshadowed by Dillingham and Reed Sheppard at Kentucky, and rightfully so; but he was considered a better prospect coming out of high school. I think there's a chance he might shine in the NBA, with better spacing. Guy has a very good first step, very good size at 6'3, is very shifty and is competitive defensively. The jumper is the main concern, although the form isn't too bad looking.

2. Carlton Carrington - Intriguing size, ball handling, passing talent and open floor speed, but completely questionable shot. Can't see Jones going for him - too raw a prospect

3. Devin Carter - Absolute dog defensively with solid size at 6'3. Exceptional rebounder for his size, and has been shooting 40% from the 3 this year on very good volume. Was initially projected as 2nd rounder, but if he sustains this production, I think someone is taking a shot on him in the 1st round. Can see him contributing immediately as a De'Anthony Melton type of player.

4. Isaiah Collier - Collier was one of the more highly touted prospects in this class, but his stock has dropped with injuries and poor shooting. Still an absolute unit though at 6'4, 200 and an extremely difficult guy to keep out of the paint. He should be a Talen Horton Tucker type definitely, but his playability will entirely depend on whether he can improve his shot

I expect the likes of Topic, Dillingham, Sheppard and Castle to go in the lottery, so haven't discussed them. I would not draft Kolek or Boswell


Excellent post! Well written concise, accurate and informative as always. LOVE IT!!!! Your analysis are always pure gold on the draft man. Good to see ya on here again, and it's great to have your shared insights.
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Re: GOKs' draft discussion thread..........Coming soon to a board near you!! 

Post#64 » by dmastro32 » Wed Feb 21, 2024 10:07 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
sunsbg wrote:Tyler Kolek PG – Marquette – HT: 6-3 – WT: 190 – WING: NA – Jr – A true floor general with an elite feel for the game and a great 3pt shot. Should be an immediate impact player at the next level. Steve Nash lite

Sounds intriguing right ?

That said Jones will draft a 23yo wing player.


Definitely right man! He's more or less almost identical in skillset/ style of play to McConnell whom we've coveted for awhile now. He'd absolutely be a very solid acquisition for us! However, I for my part have him settling in around the early 40s' and I think THAT IF we end up in the early -mid 20s', We could trade back a bit with one of the teams with multiple picks in order to pick up another pick in th deal and fill more roster needs while still getting Kolek where he settles. Right off the bat, I noticed three specific teams that'd accomodate that strategy:
- Utah Jazz with the 28th and 32nd picks.
- Minnesota Timberwolves with the 29th and 37th picks.
- Boston Celtics with the 30th, 42nd and 49th picks.

My specific plan would be to 1st target:
Ulriche Comch'e ( young Serge Ibaka archetype) for our backup 4/5 needs.
And then use our additional 2nd for Kolek. But IF not Kolek, then I'd use our acquired 2nd on
Jaxson Robinson (athletic Cam Johnson Archetype) to fill our empty Cam Johnson role! And then one of:

- Ta'lon Cooper ( Andre Miller/ Baron Davis Archetype).
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/talon-cooper-1.html

- Kenan Blackshear. (Budget Jrue Holiday archetype).
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kenan-blackshear-1.html

- Mark Sears. ( identical clone to Jalen Brunson).
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/mark-sears-1.html

- Sion James. ( Marcus Smart/ Desmond Bane hybrid archetype).
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/sion-james-1.html
https://www.nola.com/sports/tulane/tulanes-sion-james-has-top-assistturnover-ratio-in-d-i/article_c23ec500-7d90-11ed-b1b8-ff3fa604a14a.html#:~:text=None%20of%20the%20351%20players,for%20a%204.75%2F1%20ratio.
None of the 351 players who meet the qualifying standard of 3.0 assists per game takes care of the ball as well as James, who has handed out 38 assists with only eight turnovers through nine games for a 4.75/1 ratio.
so the potential is truly present. :nod:


I was just going to ask your thoughts on Jaxson and then saw this post.
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Re: GOKs' draft discussion thread..........Coming soon to a board near you!! 

Post#65 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Feb 21, 2024 11:39 pm

dmastro32 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
sunsbg wrote:Tyler Kolek PG – Marquette – HT: 6-3 – WT: 190 – WING: NA – Jr – A true floor general with an elite feel for the game and a great 3pt shot. Should be an immediate impact player at the next level. Steve Nash lite

Sounds intriguing right ?

That said Jones will draft a 23yo wing player.


Definitely right man! He's more or less almost identical in skillset/ style of play to McConnell whom we've coveted for awhile now. He'd absolutely be a very solid acquisition for us! However, I for my part have him settling in around the early 40s' and I think THAT IF we end up in the early -mid 20s', We could trade back a bit with one of the teams with multiple picks in order to pick up another pick in th deal and fill more roster needs while still getting Kolek where he settles. Right off the bat, I noticed three specific teams that'd accomodate that strategy:
- Utah Jazz with the 28th and 32nd picks.
- Minnesota Timberwolves with the 29th and 37th picks.
- Boston Celtics with the 30th, 42nd and 49th picks.

My specific plan would be to 1st target:
Ulriche Comch'e ( young Serge Ibaka archetype) for our backup 4/5 needs.
And then use our additional 2nd for Kolek. But IF not Kolek, then I'd use our acquired 2nd on
Jaxson Robinson (athletic Cam Johnson Archetype) to fill our empty Cam Johnson role! And then one of:

- Ta'lon Cooper ( Andre Miller/ Baron Davis Archetype).
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/talon-cooper-1.html

- Kenan Blackshear. (Budget Jrue Holiday archetype).
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kenan-blackshear-1.html

- Mark Sears. ( identical clone to Jalen Brunson).
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/mark-sears-1.html

- Sion James. ( Marcus Smart/ Desmond Bane hybrid archetype).
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/sion-james-1.html
https://www.nola.com/sports/tulane/tulanes-sion-james-has-top-assistturnover-ratio-in-d-i/article_c23ec500-7d90-11ed-b1b8-ff3fa604a14a.html#:~:text=None%20of%20the%20351%20players,for%20a%204.75%2F1%20ratio.
None of the 351 players who meet the qualifying standard of 3.0 assists per game takes care of the ball as well as James, who has handed out 38 assists with only eight turnovers through nine games for a 4.75/1 ratio.
so the potential is truly present. :nod:


I was just going to ask your thoughts on Jaxson and then saw this post.

Thanks for the response man! I do really like Jaxson Robinson (BYU) because he's a really smooth shotmaker in the Archetype of Cam Johnson with similar mechanics, speed of release and range. I have three players in the jumbo floor spacing wing tiers to target!

TIER 1
Ben Humrichous (Evansville)
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/ben-humrichous-1.html
Probably the best three point scorer of the three that no one really knows much about! He's big, rugged and athletic. But it still remains to be seen how good he'll do against higher level competition. He can likely be had without expending a pick as he'll likely remain under the radar going into the draft as an undrafted prospect and I'd scoop him up immediately if so. :wink:


TIER 2
Jaxson Robinson (BYU)
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jaxson-robinson-1.html
Humrichous is far and away the better shooter, BUT I might be inclined to consider Robinson over him because I feel he's just more dynamic, and athletically versatile for his position. Although either would be a coup for us as a post draft acquisition. :nod:


TIER 3
Kyshawn George (Miami) *** Already mentioned by RedIndian yesterday.
Kyshawn is a very intriuging big wing from Switzerland with guard skills to boot. He's als a smooth shooter, but is still fairly young and raw, He's definitely still intruiging for sure. BUT he's currently not getting much playing time, and of the three mentioned will likely need the most development time to offset his minimal (minute related) production, making him more of a project. And even though he's a willing playmaker too at times, his high turnover rate and poor efficiency off the dribble reflects his inexperience and need for significant development. That's why I have him last on my list.
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Re: GOKs' draft discussion thread..........Coming soon to a board near you!! 

Post#66 » by bwgood77 » Thu Feb 22, 2024 12:56 am

RedIndian wrote:
Crives wrote:I bet we trade the 2024 1st for a future 1st and multiple 2nds…. Giving us a two tradeable 1sts in the future + multiple 2nds.

Possible, but at some point we have to actually start drafting players and hope they can become part of the core. We can't aggregate salaries, so not sure what Little's 6.75 million salary + picks is going to get us.

Can't extend a championship window unless you develop young talent on the side. KD and Beal will get older - they won't keep contending if you surround them with older vets like Nurk, Royce or Thad. They'll need youth and athleticism next to them if they have any chance of extending their contention window.


I've read that teams are not valuing picks in this draft, so I doubt many teams trade a future first for a current one this year unless it has heavy protections. We should have a decent pick this year so I'd go ahead and use it, especially that without high end talent this year, with good scouting maybe you get someone good in the late teens/early 20s.
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Re: GOKs' draft discussion thread..........Coming soon to a board near you!! 

Post#67 » by Crives » Thu Feb 22, 2024 1:24 am

bwgood77 wrote:
RedIndian wrote:
Crives wrote:I bet we trade the 2024 1st for a future 1st and multiple 2nds…. Giving us a two tradeable 1sts in the future + multiple 2nds.

Possible, but at some point we have to actually start drafting players and hope they can become part of the core. We can't aggregate salaries, so not sure what Little's 6.75 million salary + picks is going to get us.

Can't extend a championship window unless you develop young talent on the side. KD and Beal will get older - they won't keep contending if you surround them with older vets like Nurk, Royce or Thad. They'll need youth and athleticism next to them if they have any chance of extending their contention window.


I've read that teams are not valuing picks in this draft, so I doubt many teams trade a future first for a current one this year unless it has heavy protections. We should have a decent pick this year so I'd go ahead and use it, especially that without high end talent this year, with good scouting maybe you get someone good in the late teens/early 20s.


Has there been any news regarding ishbia hiring a scouting department
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Re: GOKs' draft discussion thread..........Coming soon to a board near you!! 

Post#68 » by bwgood77 » Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:46 am

Crives wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
RedIndian wrote:Possible, but at some point we have to actually start drafting players and hope they can become part of the core. We can't aggregate salaries, so not sure what Little's 6.75 million salary + picks is going to get us.

Can't extend a championship window unless you develop young talent on the side. KD and Beal will get older - they won't keep contending if you surround them with older vets like Nurk, Royce or Thad. They'll need youth and athleticism next to them if they have any chance of extending their contention window.


I've read that teams are not valuing picks in this draft, so I doubt many teams trade a future first for a current one this year unless it has heavy protections. We should have a decent pick this year so I'd go ahead and use it, especially that without high end talent this year, with good scouting maybe you get someone good in the late teens/early 20s.


Has there been any news regarding ishbia hiring a scouting department


Maybe right after he bought the team. It seems he fired some of the scouting department. But I don't know who or if he hired anyone. But I haven't heard anything in a while.
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Re: GOKs' draft discussion thread..........Coming soon to a board near you!! 

Post#69 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:56 am

bwgood77 wrote:
RedIndian wrote:
Crives wrote:I bet we trade the 2024 1st for a future 1st and multiple 2nds…. Giving us a two tradeable 1sts in the future + multiple 2nds.

Possible, but at some point we have to actually start drafting players and hope they can become part of the core. We can't aggregate salaries, so not sure what Little's 6.75 million salary + picks is going to get us.

Can't extend a championship window unless you develop young talent on the side. KD and Beal will get older - they won't keep contending if you surround them with older vets like Nurk, Royce or Thad. They'll need youth and athleticism next to them if they have any chance of extending their contention window.


I've read that teams are not valuing picks in this draft, so I doubt many teams trade a future first for a current one this year unless it has heavy protections. We should have a decent pick this year so I'd go ahead and use it, especially that without high end talent this year, with good scouting maybe you get someone good in the late teens/early 20s.


Maybe they aren't, And common sense would correlate that possible disinterest or perceived devaluation to the shallowness of high end or star/superstar talent as a root cause. But then for our situation specifically, we don't really need star level pprospects or even high end talent to pull from this draft. Really, we just need servicable rotation level maybe.....if possible fringe starter level players that can supplement production around our core for sustainability purposes. And from that premise, the situation or possible devaluing of picks for this draft might actually play to our favor, in that a team that acquired multiple pivcks in this draft might be more openminded to/willing to offload their multiple picks in exchange for our one singular pick, OR a 2nd or two for one of our low end players in a consolidation type move? Regardless, we should still aggressively explore all available options, because ultimately you lose nothing in pursuing the possibilities. Better to be informed of all available options than to not be.

I'd also target specific teams in similar salary/tax (penalty situations) as ours with multiple picks: 1sts, 2 or 3 2nds, etc to see again if we might trade back, or even purchase a 2nd from an apron team if we're allowed to do that. But no better time than now to start acquiring rookie scale cost controlled talent to begin transitioning into our already top heavy roster. Just off the top of my head, I'd be looking at teams like the Jazz, Timberwolves and Celtics. All three teams carrying multiple picks already. Then there are lottery teams like the Spurs, The Blazers, or even the wizards that would probably be open to a 2 for one type swap to consolidate in order to move up higher for a chance at a potentially higher end prospect?? :dontknow:
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Re: GOKs' draft discussion thread..........Coming soon to a board near you!! 

Post#70 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Feb 22, 2024 3:05 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Crives wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I've read that teams are not valuing picks in this draft, so I doubt many teams trade a future first for a current one this year unless it has heavy protections. We should have a decent pick this year so I'd go ahead and use it, especially that without high end talent this year, with good scouting maybe you get someone good in the late teens/early 20s.


Has there been any news regarding ishbia hiring a scouting department


Maybe right after he bought the team. It seems he fired some of the scouting department. But I don't know who or if he hired anyone. But I haven't heard anything in a while.


I'd like to take this opportunity to introduce you guys to Ishbias' new scouting department!
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All jokes aside, I don't know for sure if this is current (up to date)
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/Phoenix-Suns/23/staff-members
But it lists our scouting team as:

Daniel Gomez Otero- International scout.
https://www.alqueriadelbasket.com/?r=noticias/vistaunica&id=485&idioma=eng
Spoiler:
Daniel is an individual coach of big player development in ACB, Euroleague and NBA leagues and is currently working as an "International Scout" in the Phoenix Suns franchise. Among his previous experiences in Spain, he was assistant coach of Movistar Estudiantes in ACB, Sports Director of Baloncesto Torrelodones, as well as Tutor and coordinator of the tactical area of the Coaching School of the Basketball Federation of Madrid. Internationally, he coached Portland Trail Blazers in Training Camp Summer League and coached in NBA Basketball Without Borders and Jordan Brand Classic.



Matt Hill- Advance scout.
Spoiler:
Assistant Coach of the Phoenix Suns since 2023-2024 (Hired).
Advance Scout of the Phoenix Suns since 2023-2024 (Hired).
Head Coach of the Atlanta Hawks from 2021-2022 to 2021-2022.
Assistant Coach of the Atlanta Hawks from Jun 8, 2018 (Hired) to 2023.
Assistant Coach of the Atlanta Hawks from 2018-2019 to 2018-2019.
Assistant Coach of the Atlanta Hawks from 2018-2019 to 2018-2019.
Assistant Coach of the Orlando Magic from Sep 18, 2017 (Promoted) to 2018.
Assistant Coach of the Orlando Magic Blue from 2016-2017 to 2016-2017.
Video Analyst, Opposition of the Orlando Magic from 2012-2013 (Hired)
https://coachtube.com/course/basketball/transition-offence-from-atlanta-hawks-assistant-coach-matt-hill/6231530
Prior to his tenure in Atlanta, Hill spent six seasons with the Orlando Magic, where he worked with three different head coaches: Jacque Vaughn, Scott Skiles and Frank Vogel. Hill began his career with Orlando as Video Analyst/Opposition in 2012. Hill was promoted to Manager of Advanced Scouting/Player Development in 2015 and ultimately to Assistant Coach during Vogel’s tenure. During his time in Orlando he worked with such players as Victor Oladipo, Nik Vucevic, Evan Fournier and Aaron Gordon. Hill’s roles and responsibilities varied from on-court player development to preparing and delivering opponent scouting reports.



Pat Zipfel- Advance scout.
Spoiler:
Advance Scout of the Phoenix Suns since 2019-2020 (Hired).
Advance Scout of the Minnesota Timberwolves from 2018-2019 (Hired) to 2018-2019.
Head Coach of the Mansfield Mountaineers from 2015-2016 (Hired) to 2017-2018.
Advance Scout of the Chicago Bulls from 2014-2015 (Hired) to 2014-2015 (Resigned).
Assistant Coach of the Minnesota Timberwolves from 2011-2012 (Hired) to 2013-2014 (Resigned).
Advance Scout of the Minnesota Timberwolves from 2011-2012 (Hired) to 2013-2014 (Resigned).
Assistant Coach of the Houston Rockets from 2010-2011 (Promoted) to 2010-2011.
Advance Scout of the Houston Rockets from 2007-2008 to 2010-2011.
Advance Scout of the Portland Trail Blazers from 2004-2005 to 2006-20.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Zipfel
- Zipfel worked as assistant coach/advance scout for the Chicago Bulls(NBA)as well as the Minnesota Timberwolves. In October 2015, Zipfel accepted an interim coaching position at Mansfield University, located in Mansfield, Pennsylvania to help restore the program.

- He worked for the NBA’s Los Angeles Clippers as an advance scout, responsible for scouting the Clippers’ upcoming opponents and preparing game plans for coaches and players.

- From 2004 to 2007, he was an advance scout for the NBA’s Portland Trail Blazers.

- From 2007 to 2011, Zipfel was an assistant coach and advance scout for the NBA’s Houston Rockets.[2][7]

Houston General Manager Daryl Morey said Zipfel was a “secret weapon” in the Rockets’ first-round playoff series victory in 2009, their first playoff series win in more than a decade. “We felt like we were a little tick ahead because we had Pat Zipfel on the bench,” said Morey.

- Zipfel spent the summer of 2011 serving as the advance scout for the Ukraine National Team under head coach Mike Fratello.

- In Summer of 2012 Zipfel served as the Dominican Republic national basketball team advance scout under head coach John Calipari for this country’s Olympic entrant for Men’s Basketball. The team won a gold medal in Centro Basket, and lost in the pre-Olympic Qualifying tournament.

- Zipfel has been called “one of the sharpest strategic minds in the NBA.”[5] ESPN.com says Zipfel’s NBA peers rate him “one of the league's best” advanced scouts.


Overall, It doesn't allude much if at all as to which prospects these scouts helped identify, But predominently discusses them as advance scouts of opposing nba teams rather than focus on college prospects. :dontknow:
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Re: College Basketball, the 2024 NBA Draft and the return of the Ghost of Kleine 

Post#71 » by Crives » Thu Feb 22, 2024 7:31 am

Jaylon tyson looks very interesting
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Re: College Basketball, the 2024 NBA Draft and the return of the Ghost of Kleine 

Post#72 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Feb 22, 2024 11:43 pm

Crives wrote:Jaylon tyson looks very interesting


Yep! He's pretty solid. a versatile scorer, an energetic defender with good anticipation skills in the passing lanes, and a solid rebounder. He's just solid across the board, really his only legit deficit is his turnovers as he's a bit careless with the ball. I see him as similar to a pre injury Nader with better scoring versatility and some playmaking. People should also look into Nique' Clifford (Colorado St)who's also versatile, a standout defender with elite athleticism that plays with grittiness, great fluidity and a high IQ. He's actually pretty similar to raja bell in his playstyle as a gritty versatile defender with a smooth jumpshot and good anticipatory skills too. Good eye on Tyson by the way Crives!! :clap:

This is why I keep saying we should trade back to load up on underrated solid but not spectacular talent to address our positional weaknesses and depth issues with cost controlled rookie scale (4 yrs of contractual control) salaries to help balance out our roster/ bench. :wink:

Nique' Clifford (Colorado St)
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Re: College Basketball, the 2024 NBA Draft and the return of the Ghost of Kleine 

Post#73 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Feb 23, 2024 2:02 am

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updates on some great prospects that should all be 2nd round to undrafted options should we actually make some moves on draft night to move back and pick up an additional asset or two .................or whatever to add cost controlled talent/ positional depth pieces! :wink:
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Re: College Basketball, the 2024 NBA Draft and the return of the Ghost of Kleine 

Post#74 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Feb 25, 2024 4:06 pm

Top underrated hidden gem Point guards in late 2nd - undrafted range.
Part 2 of 5 part positional prospect list

1- Garway Dual- (Providence)
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/garwey-dual-2.html
( High end defensive development prospect/ Dejounte Murray defensive ceiling). He's 6'5-6'6 very long, very quick, does have a high IQ, and is an incredible disruptor defensively. Due to his excellent fluidity, athleticism, length, and high motor, he's really adept at getting pretty much anywhere on the court that he wants, can get most any shot he wants, is capable of making a wide range of passes, and has elite potential as a lockdown defender. He is still kind of raw offensively and will definitely need to improve/ add polish to his shooting, and he'll need to add more weight and functional strength to his slight frame. But he projects very similarly to dejounte Murray do to his present skillset defensively, and his great defensive and anticipatory attributes!


2- Adama Bal- (Santa Clara)
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/adama-bal-1.html
The polar opposite of Dual who's a defense centric foundational guard, Bal, is yet another big guard/combo guard at 6'6 190 with really impressive length (6'11 wingspan), fluidity, versatility, and some guard skills. He's a versatile and somewhat surprisingly smooth scorer, with an impressive versatile and deep bag for a player so young. Bal also has really great court vision, utilizing his size and fluidity well to his advantage as a playmaker. He has impressive ball handling ability for a prospect his size too and really just needs to fine tune his shooting mechanics around the 3 pt range to become potentially elite as an offensive initiator, BUT has a lot of work to put in to becom e more than just a passable defender due to his poor defensive awareness and lack of focus currently. Nevertheless, he's a very versatile offensive talent with size and plenty of range to build off of.


3- Kenan Blackshear- (Nevada)
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kenan-blackshear-1.html
Blackshear is a really unique young Jumbo guard at 6'6 215 in that not only is he a solid (thanks to his 7'0+ wingspan and surprising athleticism)and improving defender currently too. But he's an incredibly potent scorer at times with the ability to go off for 30+ points on any given night. This is predominantly due to his really impressive ballhandling ability with a very solid first step, great hesitation moves and advanced breakdown iso ability utilizing a wide range of crafty and polished scoring moves. He's a very slick and underrated passer, strong and explosive at his size with electrifying vertical burst/athleticism at times. Really his game has almost everything you could hope for fom a young jumbo guard prospect. Really, his only real measurable weakness is his shooting efficiency that'll need to improve upon to become elite shot selection as a potential culprit too, and his proclivity to try and do too much sometimes. All typical things for a young player needing experience to work on. The bulk of his offensive prowess can be attributed to his breakdown penetration ability/ ballhandling, etc that's very similar to a young Tyreke Evans, But with elite vertical burst!
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4- Sion James- (Tulane)
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/sion-james-1.html
At 6'6 220 lbs and built like a bodybuilding hybrid mix of Marcus Smart and Desmond Bane, Sion is one of my very favorite unknown/underrated prospects here! He's unique in that he's incredibly strong and athletic, while also being poised, a natural leader and having an very high basketball IQ. Sion, was named as the Chair of the American Athletic Conference Student-Athlete Advisory Committee as the American Athletic Conference. He's also majoring in Legal Studies in Business. He's a very intelligent and accomplished kid for someone who looks like a bodybuilder version of Marcus Smart....LOL. He has carried a 3.5 to 1 assist to turnover ratio with a 9 game span of 38 assists to only 8 turnovers ( 4.75 to 1) so he has great vision and accountability/poise as a cerebral floor general archetype jumbo guard. He's also got incredible vertical burst that results in some jaw dropping Lebronesque type dunks occasionally. Overall he's just a big, very strong, physical, very solid jumbo guard across the board with high intelligence and professionalism. Sions' only real weaknesses right now are that he can be too unselfish at times being passive and not outright taking over himself. And he'll need to further improve on his jumpshot to become potentially elite.
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5- Talon Cooper- (South Carolina)
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/talon-cooper-1.html
At 6'4 190 lbs, Cooper has good size, Ta'Lon is an accomplished playmaker who at Minnesota (prior to transferring to South Carolina) averaged around 6 assists to only 2 turnovers and ranking 9th in the NCAA overall in assists for them. He's very clever and has a very good first step/crossover to breakdown defenses that goes nicely with his crafty almost Jason Williamsesque creative passing ability at times. Just a very functional, not very flashy technically sound guard with a smooth offensive game, good jumpshot with range,crafty passing, good ballhandling and decision making (maturity), and pesky tenacious defense. He honestly reminds me of a budget version of Mike Conley but with more size at 6'4 to Conleys' 6'0. But similar in being very solid in a variety of ways with a versatile, reliable skillset and mature/cerebtral mentality absent of much flashiness or bravado.
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Re: College Basketball, the 2024 NBA Draft and the return of the Ghost of Kleine 

Post#75 » by bwgood77 » Sun Feb 25, 2024 10:33 pm

Here are some draft possibilities in our range. A C does make sense if Bol Bol doesn't rally break out, given, Nurkic's lack of D mobility, lack of good 3 pt shooting, injury and age status, though a young prospect PG would be nice too...maybe a guy with more experience, or a 3D PF.

Thoughts GoK? Or anyone else? If we drop a little more with the tough schedule, we may get to more of the top of this range, or if we go on a killer run, may drop in the draft, but of course could likely take just about any guy below where we are here...

For older guys in the range, who fit what we need, what do you think of Dalton Knecht, Kevin McCullar, DaRon Holmes II, and Tyler Kolek

Dalton is a great 3 pt shooter, willing to take a lot of shots, so he could make a good 6th man maybe, in the role of Gordon, or maybe eventually start if Beal or Book are out.

McCullar is a more solid defender, a decent 3 pt shooter and is a better assist guy....and is a better defensive rebounder.

DaRon Holmes II may be the best fit and fills needs, with a lot of strengths a few weaknesses. Is a phenomenal shot blocker, solid rebounder, can shoot 3s, and hits a high % of 2s with almost a 63% TS%...is a solid defender.

Tyler Kolek may be a solid option too, and is impressive at a lot of things....solid ast/to ratio, lots of assists, 40% 3pt shooter, GREAT rebounder for size, offensive and defense, solid defender, gets a lot of steals....

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Re: College Basketball, the 2024 NBA Draft and the return of the Ghost of Kleine 

Post#76 » by Ghost of Kleine » Mon Feb 26, 2024 3:47 am

bwgood77 wrote:Here are some draft possibilities in our range. A C does make sense if Bol Bol doesn't rally break out, given, Nurkic's lack of D mobility, lack of good 3 pt shooting, injury and age status, though a young prospect PG would be nice too...maybe a guy with more experience, or a 3D PF.

Thoughts GoK? Or anyone else? If we drop a little more with the tough schedule, we may get to more of the top of this range, or if we go on a killer run, may drop in the draft, but of course could likely take just about any guy below where we are here...

For older guys in the range, who fit what we need, what do you think of Dalton Knecht, Kevin McCullar, DaRon Holmes II, and Tyler Kolek

Dalton is a great 3 pt shooter, willing to take a lot of shots, so he could make a good 6th man maybe, in the role of Gordon, or maybe eventually start if Beal or Book are out.

McCullar is a more solid defender, a decent 3 pt shooter and is a better assist guy....and is a better defensive rebounder.

DaRon Holmes II may be the best fit and fills needs, with a lot of strengths a few weaknesses. Is a phenomenal shot blocker, solid rebounder, can shoot 3s, and hits a high % of 2s with almost a 63% TS%...is a solid defender.

Tyler Kolek may be a solid option too, and is impressive at a lot of things....solid ast/to ratio, lots of assists, 40% 3pt shooter, GREAT rebounder for size, offensive and defense, solid defender, gets a lot of steals....

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I like pretty much all of the guys that you mentioned! They're all very solid and versatile and I think they all can fit a need for us in one or more respects. And even though they don't really offer star upside, we don't really need that right now from whoever we get anyways, as long as they are able to contribute consistently in a supportive role off the bench. I do actually have lists for every possible position of need as well as outlier unique options that most might not think of or be aware of just yet. But I figured I'd drop one list per week as to not overload the thread too much as I habitually do. I emphatically agree about our needs for a: solid defender, decent 3 pt shooter, a better assist option, sild rebounder, and a phenomenal shotblocker.

I believe you'll find some very intruiging prospects with those specific outlier skillsets/ talents for each position and each corresponding need or attribute. Currently I'm targeting some outlier under the radar mid major and smaller school, lesser known talents (per usual) LOL! :lol: I think If we stay and only make a singular pick in the 20s, from your list, I'd probably pick Holmes, as he'd readily address a multitude of prominent issues for us if even moderately from the jump. My favorite option p-ersonally though would be Ulriche Comanche for his size to play the 4 or the 5, and his intruiging versatility. He kind of reminds me of a young Ibaka skillset wise, although admittedly not as explosive or chiseled physically. Ultimately I'd be pretty stoked with whomever we pick as I've still gotten lists for late 2nd- undrafted range alternative talents with complimentary skillsets regardless of any direction we choose to go really!

If there's any specific skillset from your list that you'd consider most prominent or that you're most curious about, I can upload my list/ short breakdowns of those options for you/everyone to peruse at your leisure man? I have one more point guard list consisting of undersized guards with potential outlier impact talents going unnoticed, then I have wing/3 and D options, power forward options, shotblocking/ athletic, long, rebounder/rim protector options at the 5 to be considered, and last but not least, prospects with high end potential/ talents flying under the radar do to playing in smaller lesser known schools or divisions as potential undrafted extreme (two way/exhibit 10 ) value picks that we might just sign to develop on our new G league affiliate. Again, Overall I have contingency lists of outlier talents at all possible ranges just in case! Is there any specific archetype or skillset you currently covet most that I can share with you man? for instance, A few quick names that might interest you correspondin g to each need you mentioned:

Athletic wing (similar to Dalton Knecht)
Ben Humrichous, Jaxson Robinson, Kyshawn George. In that squential order although I'm somewhat partial to Robinson for his more dynamic athleticism. Humrichous is the better volume shooter by no small margin at near 6'10. And Kyshawn George has intruiging guard skills at 6'8.

high end defensive wings (similar to McCullar)
Teafale Leonard, Nique' Clifford, Matthew Cleveland, Deshawn Harris Smith, Josiah Jordan James, Terrence Arcenaux.

Comparable prospects to Day'ron Holmes (That will most likely be available from late 2nd to undrafted ranges for dirt cheap value)
Johni Broome, Brandon Huntley Hatfield, Drew Pember, Zonimir Ivisic, Quinton Post, Joel Soriano. In no particular Order.

Elite shotblocking/ rebounding defensive 5's (aside from Missi who'll likely be gone before we pick, and Kel'el Ware whom I'm less intruiged by after hearing about his motor issues and aversion towards physicality).
Ulriche Comche, Aziz Bandaogo, Cliff Omoruyi, Felix Okpala, Ugonna Kingsley Onyenso pretty much in that order.

Playmaking floor general types with good- really good playmaking (may not have Koleks' size or efficiency, but are more dynamic in other key areas)
El Marko Jackson, Reece Beekman, Sion James, DuJuan Harris, Jamal Shead, Ta'lon Cooper.

Outlier high impact prospects flying under the radar that you should check out:
Jonathan Mogbo, Axel Lendeborg, Cam Spencer, Mark Sears (Jalen Brunson), Berke Buyunctcel, Kysean Pryor (If you like chris "Birdman" Andersons' defense). Perhaps in a role similar to what Gordon plays for Denver and then slide KD down to the 3? Robbie Avila is you like the very skilled but mostly unathletic playmaking, floor spacing connective big (6'10)? And there's plenty more to consider still. :D
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Re: College Basketball, the 2024 NBA Draft and the return of the Ghost of Kleine 

Post#77 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Feb 27, 2024 2:49 am

Highly underrated/ potential steals 2nd round- undrafted smaller value guard options that'll provide a big impact:
Part 2 of 5 part positional porospect list

1- El Marko Jackson (Kansas)
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/elmarko-jackson-2.html
At 6'3 195 lbs, El Marko is a high IQ supremely professional floor general archetype and defensive maestro that's also an elite POA defender with a non stop motor, strong frame, great ball security and very impressive court vision. And he is #1 on the list because he really does check all of the boxes to lead the bench and tableset the offense with maturity and poise. And although he's not yet a great shooter, overall he does all the little things for his team to win, and makes smart decisions with the ball in his hands.


2- Reece Beekman (Virginia)
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/reece-beekman-1.html
At 6'3 194 lbs with a solid frame (6'7 wingspan) Beekman is a very smart, fundamentally sound lockdown defensive guard that plays with poise and maturity beyond his years. Like Jackson, he's the ultimate professional that'll play hard every possession, make smart plays, and do whatever it takes to help his team win! He has underrated smooth athleticism and sneaky vertical burst that's not an exciting athlete but still a very efficient and reliable offensive player that knows how to get his own shots and is an elite defender especially POA. He's also a very underrated passer and ballhandler too. Reece is a cerebral guard with a vet mindset that makes the right plays, and keeps things simple, not trying to do too much outside of his role.


3- Eric Gaines- (UAB)
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/eric-gaines-4.html
At 6'2 155 lbs, Gaines surely doesn't have great size for an ideal guard. But even so, he's still very fast, vertically explosive, and incredibly athletic overall. He's also a high motor versatile guard that plays at a nonstop pace is very crafty and tenacious scoring at the rim, and he'll occasionally make electrifying highlight plays and punish the opposition driving to the rim. He's also very dangerous playing downhill or in transition. He's also an encouraging playmaker even though his handle can be a bit loose at times. He's also an underrated disruptive defender that can put points up in a hurry. Think of a skinnier low end budget mix of DeAaron Fox and Darrell Armstrong motor, speed, and playing style going downhill and vertical athleticism.


4- Mark Sears- (Alabama) ** Jalen Brunson 2.0 archetype!
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/mark-sears-1.html
Even at 6'1 185 lbs, Sears is a strong, quick, athletic, very crafty high IQ offensively talented 6'1 guard with good but not great shooting efficiency, he's an impressive ballhandler, a strong rebounder, and a bouncy athlete too.Sears is a willing proactive defender that gives good effort and is a pesky good disruptor in the passing lanes. Honestly, Sears is a fairly comparable guard to Jalen Brunson as a rugged, tenacious, crafty scoring threat with lethal shooting. That being said, He doesn't yet have the footwork, defensive focus or advanced playmaking skillset/ attributes that Brunson displays which make him elite. But I do believe the underlying foundational talent is present to build towards a very similar trajectory.


5- Kylan Boswell- (Arizona)
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kylan-boswell-1.html
At 6'2 195 lbs, Boswell has a sturdy frame and is a solid high IQ fundamentally sound/ poised 6'2 guard who's an impressive/ underrated playmaker/ floor general that has an impressive feel for the game. He's a very competitive, with shiftiness to his ballhandling, plays a mature and cerebral game and is a very good shooter if left open. He's very crafty at getting to the rim, and is a really pesky POA defender that always puts out full effort. His game and style of play most closely resembles a mix of Fred van Vleet and some Jose Alvarado (not because of the hair)!....LOL. As an undrafted signing, He'd offer very solid value as a quality mid to late 2nd round - undrafted backup guard option.


6- Mark Armstrong- (Villanova)
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/mark-armstrong-2.html
At 6'2 185 lbs, Mark Armstrong is basically anotherstrong, rugged, athletic, tenacious, high IQ, fundamentally sound guard with solid vertical athleticism, dangerous downhill penetrator, advanced ballhandler and also is a rugged/tenacious defender. He's not as potent of a scorer as Mark Sears, and will have to put in serious work to improve his shooting/ offensive production as well as develop other key areas of his game. BUT he plays with alot of confidence and moxy, and an edge and he's very solid and gritty with a lot of talent and a tenacious competitive nature. He's definitely not a star type talent, but he is a tough, rugged, smart bench level guard option that can reliably fill his role.


7- Devin Carter- (Providence)
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/devin-carter-3.html
At 6'3 195 lbs, Carter is another no frills cerebral efficient tenacious, high motor, strong, physical two way guard that plays a mature physical game, is a rugged, pesky, relentless defender, He's developed into a potent scorer and is already a very versatile defender that's really disruptive iun the passing lanes, and plays with good activity as an on ball defender. Ultimately, he's a very solid and reliable two way player that'll fill up the stat sheet and may surprise people. His game most closely resembles a bigger Jevon Carter defensively. And some Kendrick Nunn offensively.


8- DeJuan Harris- (Kansas)
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/dajuan-harris-1.html
At 6'1 160 lbs, Harris is a lightning quick, very shifty athletic, high end cerebral floor general type guard with a high IQ that can get to the basket at will, plays with incredible maturity and poise. Not only is he an ELITE DEFENDER for his size, Harris just always makes the right decision, the right play, the right pass. He's a winner and a confident leader with a smooth game, overall great fundamentals, relentless defense, and a very good shooter, floor spacer from three.


9- Jamal Shead- (Houston)
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jamal-shead-1.html
Houston. a strong, relentlessly competitive, cerebral and very tough hard nosed gritty lockdown defensive guard that plays with unrivaled passion and motor. He's also very strong playmaker, great passer, underrated big shotmaker, he's the heart and soul of the ELITE Houston defense! He's like a more mature and stable version of prime Pat Beverly, But with a great attitude and no behavioral goonish attitude. Put it like this..............Sheads' motor, tenacity and relentless effort could make Okogie look passive and somewhat shy! There's a clear reason he's the heart and soul of the best defensive team in college basketball!! :wink:


10- KJ Simpson (Colorado)
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kj-simpson-1.html
Even at 6'2 175 lbs as an undersized guard, Simpson is undersized with a slight framethat'll make playing in the NBA very challenging. But he's also very skilled, with a great basketball IQ and stellar awareness/ court vision and great shooting metrics. These other outlier attributes will somewhat balance out his size/frame concerns. But he will be hunted due to his size, frame, and overall average athleticism. He is an active and willing defender that gives good effort, has a good motor and make solid decisions with the ball. As an undrafted signing, he'd add legit value with his efficient, cerebral play and decision making.

****** Cam Spencer (Uconn)
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/cam-spencer-1.html
At 6'4 205 lbs with a sturdy frame, Cam Spencer is the clear budget version of top 5 pick Reed Sheppard. With his incredible efficiency and production/metrics, He's very impactful while also being quite underrated! He is just incredibly reliable in a multitude of areas/ categories, Has a very high IQ/ processing ability for the game. makes great plays that impact winning, and has great poise, nuance, mental awareness, etc. Again, he's the very consistent, efficient, impactful budget clone of Reed Sheppard, and for a team without a lottery pick to get a very similar stellar impactful cerebral combo guard that just happens to be an elite shooter and high end 50/40/90 prospect possibly from a late 2nd range to even possibly undrafted would be an absolute coup!!! I mean just look what our other 50/40/90 guard/wing in Grayson Allen has offered us in terms of impact!! :o
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He'd be a GREAT potential Eric Gordon replacement! Or a GREAT TJ McConnell alternative I'd wager. :wink: :nod:
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Re: College Basketball, the 2024 NBA Draft and the return of the Ghost of Kleine 

Post#78 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Feb 27, 2024 3:23 am

a bit more on late 2nd - undrafted value prospect.............. Jamal Shead
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Re: College Basketball, the 2024 NBA Draft and the return of the Ghost of Kleine 

Post#79 » by SunsRback4Good » Tue Feb 27, 2024 3:35 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:a bit more on late 2nd - undrafted value prospect.............. Jamal Shead
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We definitely need two way players maybe Jamal will be 50% of what Mikal brought to the table for our team that would be great.
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Re: College Basketball, the 2024 NBA Draft and the return of the Ghost of Kleine 

Post#80 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Feb 27, 2024 5:20 am

SunsRback4Good wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:a bit more on late 2nd - undrafted value prospect.............. Jamal Shead
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We definitely need two way players maybe Jamal will be 50% of what Mikal brought to the table for our team that would be great.


Absolutely! :nod: Shead is like an honorable/ respectful/ humble versatile floor general version of Pat Beverly without any goon behavioral issues.
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