2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - the calm before the storm

[KdoubleDees23]

KD to the Thunder for Giddy, Jalen Williams , 2024 1st (From Clippers),

keep Booker

Trade Beal and Nassir Little for the Corpse of Ben Simmons and DFS

Get Tyus Jones

Run a lineup

Simmons / Tyus Jones ***Split Minutes with both teams
Booker / Allen
Jalen Williams / Giddey
DFS / Royce O'Neale
Nurkic / Bol / 2024 1st from clippers

[lilfishi22]

He's been brought up a lot to pair with Book in the past, but hard to find post. Here is some discussion...

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1815466&start=500#p73744708

For the record, the problem with the Beal/Booker backcourt besides health is the lack of playmaking and defense.

Back when people brought it up all the time I wasn't sure about it mostly because of the defense. I thought offensively it would work fine.

However, since then, both have become much better defenders. They are not great, but can be fairly solid.

As far as playmaking, two games ago they had a combined 21 assists. Against Phillyh they had 18. They are averaging at least 15 combined assists over the last 20 or 30 games.

I've fantasised about a Book/Beal backcourt for a long time. Before even CP3's time. I thought they would work just fine as well. And defensively, they've both shown they can defend well and their issue is perhaps effort/consistency/scheme related on that end.

But I think the main issue isn't so much that they can't make plays or that they don't have synergies with each other, it's more that there doesn't seem to be a coherent system/scheme that regularly supports or gets the most out of these two devastatingly good offensive player. Throw in KD and it becomes a 3 body problem, where we're now juggling the offensive talent of 3 very talented players. The frustration is that we've seen other 3 highly skilled, highly potent individual offensive players play with a lot of chemistry/synergy on other teams but we just haven't seen it consistently enough on this team. If we look at the Boston team with KG, PP and Ray Allen, that offensive system they run probably wouldn't have worked if it was reliant on just those 3 guys. The most important player on that team can quite easily argued as being Rondo. He's the connector, his entire job is to run the system to get the most out of those 3 dudes and others as well. He's also not giving up anything on the offensive/defensive to do that specific job.

With us, asking Book or Beal to be more of a playmaker is asking them to give up something on the offensive end (which they've done happily) but it's something that we as a team actually lose out on. It's too late for this season but I've debated for probably half the season whether we needed a PG or whether these guys can figure it out and it's clear to get the most out of those 3 guys, we gotta find ourselves a guy who's only role is to set the table.

[bwgood77]

For the record, the problem with the Beal/Booker backcourt besides health is the lack of playmaking and defense.

Back when people brought it up all the time I wasn't sure about it mostly because of the defense. I thought offensively it would work fine.

However, since then, both have become much better defenders. They are not great, but can be fairly solid.

As far as playmaking, two games ago they had a combined 21 assists. Against Phillyh they had 18. They are averaging at least 15 combined assists over the last 20 or 30 games.

I've fantasised about a Book/Beal backcourt for a long time. Before even CP3's time. I thought they would work just fine as well. And defensively, they've both shown they can defend well and their issue is perhaps effort/consistency/scheme related on that end.

But I think the main issue isn't so much that they can't make plays or that they don't have synergies with each other, it's more that there doesn't seem to be a coherent system/scheme that regularly supports or gets the most out of these two devastatingly good offensive player. Throw in KD and it becomes a 3 body problem, where we're now juggling the offensive talent of 3 very talented players. The frustration is that we've seen other 3 highly skilled, highly potent individual offensive players play with a lot of chemistry/synergy on other teams but we just haven't seen it consistently enough on this team. If we look at the Boston team with KG, PP and Ray Allen, that offensive system they run probably wouldn't have worked if it was reliant on just those 3 guys. The most important player on that team can quite easily argued as being Rondo. He's the connector, his entire job is to run the system to get the most out of those 3 dudes and others as well. He's also not giving up anything on the offensive/defensive to do that specific job.

With us, asking Book or Beal to be more of a playmaker is asking them to give up something on the offensive end (which they've done happily) but it's something that we as a team actually lose out on. It's too late for this season but I've debated for probably half the season whether we needed a PG or whether these guys can figure it out and it's clear to get the most out of those 3 guys, we gotta find ourselves a guy who's only role is to set the table.

I think the 3 Body Problem kind of makes the Beal/Book backcourt look not as good as it would otherwise. Not that it's better not to have KD, it's just that there is only one ball so it will always marginalize one player with shots and opportunities.

I really think we need an offensive focused coach to maximize our offensive strengths. I've said it before, but it's like when we hired Porter for the Nash team. You have Book/Beal/KD/Allen shooting and it's not the best group of defenders and you hire a defensive coach. Defense will be our problem anyway, so lets get a coach who can maximize and figure out a way to utilize the strengths of everyone, whether it be staggering, moving without the ball, etc. Then get a C to anchor some sort of defense...tell them like Paul did that to win you HAVE to play hard defense...playing hard defense is more of a mentality thing anyway.

[lilfishi22]

Back when people brought it up all the time I wasn't sure about it mostly because of the defense. I thought offensively it would work fine.

However, since then, both have become much better defenders. They are not great, but can be fairly solid.

As far as playmaking, two games ago they had a combined 21 assists. Against Phillyh they had 18. They are averaging at least 15 combined assists over the last 20 or 30 games.

I've fantasised about a Book/Beal backcourt for a long time. Before even CP3's time. I thought they would work just fine as well. And defensively, they've both shown they can defend well and their issue is perhaps effort/consistency/scheme related on that end.

But I think the main issue isn't so much that they can't make plays or that they don't have synergies with each other, it's more that there doesn't seem to be a coherent system/scheme that regularly supports or gets the most out of these two devastatingly good offensive player. Throw in KD and it becomes a 3 body problem, where we're now juggling the offensive talent of 3 very talented players. The frustration is that we've seen other 3 highly skilled, highly potent individual offensive players play with a lot of chemistry/synergy on other teams but we just haven't seen it consistently enough on this team. If we look at the Boston team with KG, PP and Ray Allen, that offensive system they run probably wouldn't have worked if it was reliant on just those 3 guys. The most important player on that team can quite easily argued as being Rondo. He's the connector, his entire job is to run the system to get the most out of those 3 dudes and others as well. He's also not giving up anything on the offensive/defensive to do that specific job.

With us, asking Book or Beal to be more of a playmaker is asking them to give up something on the offensive end (which they've done happily) but it's something that we as a team actually lose out on. It's too late for this season but I've debated for probably half the season whether we needed a PG or whether these guys can figure it out and it's clear to get the most out of those 3 guys, we gotta find ourselves a guy who's only role is to set the table.

I think the 3 Body Problem kind of makes the Beal/Book backcourt look not as good as it would otherwise. Not that it's better not to have KD, it's just that there is only one ball so it will always marginalize one player with shots and opportunities.

I really think we need an offensive focused coach to maximize our offensive strengths. I've said it before, but it's like when we hired Porter for the Nash team. You have Book/Beal/KD/Allen shooting and it's not the best group of defenders and you hire a defensive coach. Defense will be our problem anyway, so lets get a coach who can maximize and figure out a way to utilize the strengths of everyone, whether it be staggering, moving without the ball, etc. Then get a C to anchor some sort of defense...tell them like Paul did that to win you HAVE to play hard defense...playing hard defense is more of a mentality thing anyway.

It's always simpler to run a system with fewer elite options because you just know who the go-to guy is. Add another guy and it becomes more complex because you have to try and get the most out of him as well. Add a 3rd guy and it becomes even more difficult. AS you mentioned, one ball, someone is giving up something ie there is a point of diminishing returns but I don't think we're even at that point, we've never quite gotten there. And that's not giving credence to the other side which is that it also makes us incredibly difficult to defend against when you have not one, not two but three guys who can do it at the highest level.

The problem is we're very often not playing as a team that includes 3 individually elite players but it's more like 3 teams of one individually elite player on each. We just don't play enough like a team. I don't want to just call it my turn, your turn because it's not that. We run plays, we sometimes have good offensive sets, we sometimes have good ball movement. It's that our sets very often just ends up being a KD/Book iso on a mismatch which is not the worst possession but it doesn't beat getting open 3's, lobs at the rim or catch and shoots. Throw in turnovers, late shock clock attempts and pace issues and it all takes away from the talent of the 3 guys.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the Porter/Nash team comp. I remember Nash saying he didn't feel comfortable in that off ball role and becoming more like a spot up shooter with the offense running through Shaq. I'm all for moving on from Vogel because he just doesn't have the offensive schemes to maximise this team (which doesn't have much room to move) and clearly offensive guru Kevin Young either has zero influence or his genius is overstated.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I've fantasised about a Book/Beal backcourt for a long time. Before even CP3's time. I thought they would work just fine as well. And defensively, they've both shown they can defend well and their issue is perhaps effort/consistency/scheme related on that end.

But I think the main issue isn't so much that they can't make plays or that they don't have synergies with each other, it's more that there doesn't seem to be a coherent system/scheme that regularly supports or gets the most out of these two devastatingly good offensive player. Throw in KD and it becomes a 3 body problem, where we're now juggling the offensive talent of 3 very talented players. The frustration is that we've seen other 3 highly skilled, highly potent individual offensive players play with a lot of chemistry/synergy on other teams but we just haven't seen it consistently enough on this team. If we look at the Boston team with KG, PP and Ray Allen, that offensive system they run probably wouldn't have worked if it was reliant on just those 3 guys. The most important player on that team can quite easily argued as being Rondo. He's the connector, his entire job is to run the system to get the most out of those 3 dudes and others as well. He's also not giving up anything on the offensive/defensive to do that specific job.

With us, asking Book or Beal to be more of a playmaker is asking them to give up something on the offensive end (which they've done happily) but it's something that we as a team actually lose out on. It's too late for this season but I've debated for probably half the season whether we needed a PG or whether these guys can figure it out and it's clear to get the most out of those 3 guys, we gotta find ourselves a guy who's only role is to set the table.

I think the 3 Body Problem kind of makes the Beal/Book backcourt look not as good as it would otherwise. Not that it's better not to have KD, it's just that there is only one ball so it will always marginalize one player with shots and opportunities.

I really think we need an offensive focused coach to maximize our offensive strengths. I've said it before, but it's like when we hired Porter for the Nash team. You have Book/Beal/KD/Allen shooting and it's not the best group of defenders and you hire a defensive coach. Defense will be our problem anyway, so lets get a coach who can maximize and figure out a way to utilize the strengths of everyone, whether it be staggering, moving without the ball, etc. Then get a C to anchor some sort of defense...tell them like Paul did that to win you HAVE to play hard defense...playing hard defense is more of a mentality thing anyway.

It's always simpler to run a system with fewer elite options because you just know who the go-to guy is. Add another guy and it becomes more complex because you have to try and get the most out of him as well. Add a 3rd guy and it becomes even more difficult. AS you mentioned, one ball, someone is giving up something ie there is a point of diminishing returns but I don't think we're even at that point, we've never quite gotten there. And that's not giving credence to the other side which is that it also makes us incredibly difficult to defend against when you have not one, not two but three guys who can do it at the highest level.

The problem is we're very often not playing as a team that includes 3 individually elite players but it's more like 3 teams of one individually elite player on each. We just don't play enough like a team. I don't want to just call it my turn, your turn because it's not that. We run plays, we sometimes have good offensive sets, we sometimes have good ball movement. It's that our sets very often just ends up being a KD/Book iso on a mismatch which is not the worst possession but it doesn't beat getting open 3's, lobs at the rim or catch and shoots. Throw in turnovers, late shock clock attempts and pace issues and it all takes away from the talent of the 3 guys.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the Porter/Nash team comp. I remember Nash saying he didn't feel comfortable in that off ball role and becoming more like a spot up shooter with the offense running through Shaq. I'm all for moving on from Vogel because he just doesn't have the offensive schemes to maximise this team (which doesn't have much room to move) and clearly offensive guru Kevin Young either has zero influence or his genius is overstated.

Sergio Scariolo
https://basketnews.com/news-177944-sergio-scariolos-case-for-goat-status.html#:~:text=But%20the%20Italian%20head%20coach,on%207%20of%209%20occasions.

But the Italian head coach once again proved he makes a case for the greatest head coach in FIBA national teams basketball. Under coach Scariolo, Spain won the gold 5 times in 10 FIBA competitions. Scariolo led Spain to the top of the podium in three consecutive EuroBasket. They went for medals on 7 of 9 occasions. Sep 14, 2022.

[Slim Charless]

Man - Ya'll hate Ayton , but he was on a winning team!!! Not a play-in team!

GO NURKIC

Nurk needs to be traded at the earliest possibility. It's what's known as selling high on your stock. His will never be higher than it is right now.

We can get a 1st and/or a good young player from a team that needs his size, rebounding and toughness. There's no reason why he should be on the team come October. He's our only assest that another team would want (outside of Book and KD)

Nobodies going to give us a first and a good young player for Nurk. Or I'd be surprised if they did. Not sure who would.

OKC is in desperate of everything Nurk stands for. That's a start.

[Slim Charless]

Back when people brought it up all the time I wasn't sure about it mostly because of the defense. I thought offensively it would work fine.

However, since then, both have become much better defenders. They are not great, but can be fairly solid.

As far as playmaking, two games ago they had a combined 21 assists. Against Phillyh they had 18. They are averaging at least 15 combined assists over the last 20 or 30 games.

I've fantasised about a Book/Beal backcourt for a long time. Before even CP3's time. I thought they would work just fine as well. And defensively, they've both shown they can defend well and their issue is perhaps effort/consistency/scheme related on that end.

But I think the main issue isn't so much that they can't make plays or that they don't have synergies with each other, it's more that there doesn't seem to be a coherent system/scheme that regularly supports or gets the most out of these two devastatingly good offensive player. Throw in KD and it becomes a 3 body problem, where we're now juggling the offensive talent of 3 very talented players. The frustration is that we've seen other 3 highly skilled, highly potent individual offensive players play with a lot of chemistry/synergy on other teams but we just haven't seen it consistently enough on this team. If we look at the Boston team with KG, PP and Ray Allen, that offensive system they run probably wouldn't have worked if it was reliant on just those 3 guys. The most important player on that team can quite easily argued as being Rondo. He's the connector, his entire job is to run the system to get the most out of those 3 dudes and others as well. He's also not giving up anything on the offensive/defensive to do that specific job.

With us, asking Book or Beal to be more of a playmaker is asking them to give up something on the offensive end (which they've done happily) but it's something that we as a team actually lose out on. It's too late for this season but I've debated for probably half the season whether we needed a PG or whether these guys can figure it out and it's clear to get the most out of those 3 guys, we gotta find ourselves a guy who's only role is to set the table.

I think the 3 Body Problem kind of makes the Beal/Book backcourt look not as good as it would otherwise. Not that it's better not to have KD, it's just that there is only one ball so it will always marginalize one player with shots and opportunities.

I really think we need an offensive focused coach to maximize our offensive strengths. I've said it before, but it's like when we hired Porter for the Nash team. You have Book/Beal/KD/Allen shooting and it's not the best group of defenders and you hire a defensive coach. Defense will be our problem anyway, so lets get a coach who can maximize and figure out a way to utilize the strengths of everyone, whether it be staggering, moving without the ball, etc. Then get a C to anchor some sort of defense...tell them like Paul did that to win you HAVE to play hard defense...playing hard defense is more of a mentality thing anyway.

This is why Giddey would fit this teams needs like a glove. All the better that he can play the 3 as it allows us to keep Book/Beal out there.

[bwgood77]

Nurk needs to be traded at the earliest possibility. It's what's known as selling high on your stock. His will never be higher than it is right now.

We can get a 1st and/or a good young player from a team that needs his size, rebounding and toughness. There's no reason why he should be on the team come October. He's our only assest that another team would want (outside of Book and KD)

Nobodies going to give us a first and a good young player for Nurk. Or I'd be surprised if they did. Not sure who would.

OKC is in desperate of everything Nurk stands for. That's a start.

They don't look too desperate to me.

[bwgood77]

I've fantasised about a Book/Beal backcourt for a long time. Before even CP3's time. I thought they would work just fine as well. And defensively, they've both shown they can defend well and their issue is perhaps effort/consistency/scheme related on that end.

But I think the main issue isn't so much that they can't make plays or that they don't have synergies with each other, it's more that there doesn't seem to be a coherent system/scheme that regularly supports or gets the most out of these two devastatingly good offensive player. Throw in KD and it becomes a 3 body problem, where we're now juggling the offensive talent of 3 very talented players. The frustration is that we've seen other 3 highly skilled, highly potent individual offensive players play with a lot of chemistry/synergy on other teams but we just haven't seen it consistently enough on this team. If we look at the Boston team with KG, PP and Ray Allen, that offensive system they run probably wouldn't have worked if it was reliant on just those 3 guys. The most important player on that team can quite easily argued as being Rondo. He's the connector, his entire job is to run the system to get the most out of those 3 dudes and others as well. He's also not giving up anything on the offensive/defensive to do that specific job.

With us, asking Book or Beal to be more of a playmaker is asking them to give up something on the offensive end (which they've done happily) but it's something that we as a team actually lose out on. It's too late for this season but I've debated for probably half the season whether we needed a PG or whether these guys can figure it out and it's clear to get the most out of those 3 guys, we gotta find ourselves a guy who's only role is to set the table.

I think the 3 Body Problem kind of makes the Beal/Book backcourt look not as good as it would otherwise. Not that it's better not to have KD, it's just that there is only one ball so it will always marginalize one player with shots and opportunities.

I really think we need an offensive focused coach to maximize our offensive strengths. I've said it before, but it's like when we hired Porter for the Nash team. You have Book/Beal/KD/Allen shooting and it's not the best group of defenders and you hire a defensive coach. Defense will be our problem anyway, so lets get a coach who can maximize and figure out a way to utilize the strengths of everyone, whether it be staggering, moving without the ball, etc. Then get a C to anchor some sort of defense...tell them like Paul did that to win you HAVE to play hard defense...playing hard defense is more of a mentality thing anyway.

This is why Giddey would fit this teams needs like a glove. All the better that he can play the 3 as it allows us to keep Book/Beal out there.

Sure, I'd like to have Giddey.

I would have liked to have traded DA for AD or Zion too like you suggested but it's unlikely any trade with OKC is going to happen. I've already mentioned several times why I think so. Now NY? I see that as more of a possibility. It's not as exciting since they don't have the players or as many picks, but I could see them trading for KD.

[garrick]

I think the 3 Body Problem kind of makes the Beal/Book backcourt look not as good as it would otherwise. Not that it's better not to have KD, it's just that there is only one ball so it will always marginalize one player with shots and opportunities.

I really think we need an offensive focused coach to maximize our offensive strengths. I've said it before, but it's like when we hired Porter for the Nash team. You have Book/Beal/KD/Allen shooting and it's not the best group of defenders and you hire a defensive coach. Defense will be our problem anyway, so lets get a coach who can maximize and figure out a way to utilize the strengths of everyone, whether it be staggering, moving without the ball, etc. Then get a C to anchor some sort of defense...tell them like Paul did that to win you HAVE to play hard defense...playing hard defense is more of a mentality thing anyway.

This is why Giddey would fit this teams needs like a glove. All the better that he can play the 3 as it allows us to keep Book/Beal out there.

Sure, I'd like to have Giddey.

I would have liked to have traded DA for AD or Zion too like you suggested but it's unlikely any trade with OKC is going to happen. I've already mentioned several times why I think so. Now NY? I see that as more of a possibility. It's not as exciting since they don't have the players or as many picks, but I could see them trading for KD.

We could do like a Giddey and Little swap since both their contracts are pretty similar and OKC has a surplus of future picks?

But the worrying part of Giddey's game is he isn't a good defender and he's a bad 3pt shooter that defenses will leave open to dare him to make the 3.

[Slim Charless]

I think the 3 Body Problem kind of makes the Beal/Book backcourt look not as good as it would otherwise. Not that it's better not to have KD, it's just that there is only one ball so it will always marginalize one player with shots and opportunities.

I really think we need an offensive focused coach to maximize our offensive strengths. I've said it before, but it's like when we hired Porter for the Nash team. You have Book/Beal/KD/Allen shooting and it's not the best group of defenders and you hire a defensive coach. Defense will be our problem anyway, so lets get a coach who can maximize and figure out a way to utilize the strengths of everyone, whether it be staggering, moving without the ball, etc. Then get a C to anchor some sort of defense...tell them like Paul did that to win you HAVE to play hard defense...playing hard defense is more of a mentality thing anyway.

This is why Giddey would fit this teams needs like a glove. All the better that he can play the 3 as it allows us to keep Book/Beal out there.

Sure, I'd like to have Giddey.

I would have liked to have traded DA for AD or Zion too like you suggested but it's unlikely any trade with OKC is going to happen. I've already mentioned several times why I think so. Now NY? I see that as more of a possibility. It's not as exciting since they don't have the players or as many picks, but I could see them trading for KD.

You've also said-on numerous occasions that you think that Suggs is a bust. Me and you have gone back and forth on that one as well.

Things change. As Suggs as proven this year in Orlando. I've said all along that the playoffs will prove or disprove what the Thunder need.

[bwgood77]

This is why Giddey would fit this teams needs like a glove. All the better that he can play the 3 as it allows us to keep Book/Beal out there.

Sure, I'd like to have Giddey.

I would have liked to have traded DA for AD or Zion too like you suggested but it's unlikely any trade with OKC is going to happen. I've already mentioned several times why I think so. Now NY? I see that as more of a possibility. It's not as exciting since they don't have the players or as many picks, but I could see them trading for KD.

You've also said-on numerous occasions that you think that Suggs is a bust. Me and you have gone back and forth on that one as well.

Things change. As Suggs as proven this year in Orlando. I've said all along that the playoffs will prove or disprove what the Thunder need.

I didn't say he was a bust, just that he hadn't been any good yet. He's a positive player this year, but it's not like he's doing great. He's a PG averaging 2.6 apg and 1.0 tpg.

But, his scoring has improved tremendously.

The Thunder are still young and ahead of schedule. They are set up for the long haul. I doubt Presti would pull an Ishbia and be shortsighted.

[lilfishi22]

Sure, I'd like to have Giddey.

I would have liked to have traded DA for AD or Zion too like you suggested but it's unlikely any trade with OKC is going to happen. I've already mentioned several times why I think so. Now NY? I see that as more of a possibility. It's not as exciting since they don't have the players or as many picks, but I could see them trading for KD.

You've also said-on numerous occasions that you think that Suggs is a bust. Me and you have gone back and forth on that one as well.

Things change. As Suggs as proven this year in Orlando. I've said all along that the playoffs will prove or disprove what the Thunder need.

I didn't say he was a bust, just that he hadn't been any good yet. He's a positive player this year, but it's not like he's doing great. He's a PG averaging 2.6 apg and 1.0 tpg.

But, his scoring has improved tremendously.

The Thunder are still young and ahead of schedule. They are set up for the long haul. I doubt Presti would pull an Ishbia and be shortsighted.

I still don't think Suggs is that good but he's proven useful this season.

As for Thunder, they are certainly ahead of schedule if you look at their average age and years the league. But often their schedule is based on their best player and how ready they are to take the next step. SGA turns 26 this offseason and while that alone doesn't mean they have to go all in, it's not entirely implausible for there to be some collective motivation to want to speed things up a bit given SGA is heading into his prime and already in his 2nd year of his max extension. For reference, by 26, Book and Tatum already had a Finals appearance under their belt.

I think the odds are against them making a couple of big splashy all-in moves but they've got A LOT of assets and young guys they could work with to get an experienced guy who's absolutely ready to ball right now. I think Slim is right in seeing how they will go in these playoffs because they are the best team in the West, they have a guy who's heading into his prime and while they could sit on internal development, the playoffs may reveal something they lack that can't be attained through that path.

[Slim Charless]

Sure, I'd like to have Giddey.

I would have liked to have traded DA for AD or Zion too like you suggested but it's unlikely any trade with OKC is going to happen. I've already mentioned several times why I think so. Now NY? I see that as more of a possibility. It's not as exciting since they don't have the players or as many picks, but I could see them trading for KD.

You've also said-on numerous occasions that you think that Suggs is a bust. Me and you have gone back and forth on that one as well.

Things change. As Suggs as proven this year in Orlando. I've said all along that the playoffs will prove or disprove what the Thunder need.

I didn't say he was a bust, just that he hadn't been any good yet. He's a positive player this year, but it's not like he's doing great. He's a PG averaging 2.6 apg and 1.0 tpg.

But, his scoring has improved tremendously.

The Thunder are still young and ahead of schedule. They are set up for the long haul. I doubt Presti would pull an Ishbia and be shortsighted.

You've been negative about him more or less since his class and we didn't get him. Bringing him up often.....until this season. I wouldn't agree with your neutral opinion that you're claiming now you've had all this time. To say the least. To add onto to your points about him, he, along with another favorite of mine-Jonathan Isaac form a fearsome defensive combo down in ORL. Probably the best 2 man paring in the league.

Not that this is about things I'm right about and me using this as an opportunity to bring them up again. It's more about that fact that players and situations change all the time. Presti is not being short-sighted by using assets to actually buy in on a player that can push them over the top. He's using them for what he got them for. Unless you think his plan is to add another 34 players (the number of picks he has over the next 6 years lol) to his already very good and very young team......?

[bwgood77]

You've also said-on numerous occasions that you think that Suggs is a bust. Me and you have gone back and forth on that one as well.

Things change. As Suggs as proven this year in Orlando. I've said all along that the playoffs will prove or disprove what the Thunder need.

I didn't say he was a bust, just that he hadn't been any good yet. He's a positive player this year, but it's not like he's doing great. He's a PG averaging 2.6 apg and 1.0 tpg.

But, his scoring has improved tremendously.

The Thunder are still young and ahead of schedule. They are set up for the long haul. I doubt Presti would pull an Ishbia and be shortsighted.

I still don't think Suggs is that good but he's proven useful this season.

As for Thunder, they are certainly ahead of schedule if you look at their average age and years the league. But often their schedule is based on their best player and how ready they are to take the next step. SGA turns 26 this offseason and while that alone doesn't mean they have to go all in, it's not entirely implausible for there to be some collective motivation to want to speed things up a bit given SGA is heading into his prime and already in his 2nd year of his max extension. For reference, by 26, Book and Tatum already had a Finals appearance under their belt.

I think the odds are against them making a couple of big splashy all-in moves but they've got A LOT of assets and young guys they could work with to get an experienced guy who's absolutely ready to ball right now. I think Slim is right in seeing how they will go in these playoffs because they are the best team in the West, they have a guy who's heading into his prime and while they could sit on internal development, the playoffs may reveal something they lack that can't be attained through that path.

Yeah, but we got Paul for one first, Oubre who we would have gotten rid of anyway, and an older Rubio (so a big upgrade). I don't totally discount a KD to OKC trade, but I don't think we will get a big time core player like Giddey. I think we could get a couple picks and maybe a couple of younger players outside of their rotation.

Could they use Nurk given their lack of rebounding? Sure, but who do we get back? I don't see them giving up a first for him, unless it's a heavily protected one or something, and don't know if they can absorb a contact or who we might get back. My guess is SGA, Jalen, Chet, Giddey and Dort are untouchable for them barring some enormous deal...but still, they are the #1 or #2 seed with a very young team and tons of picks to give them guys on rookie contracts so it won't be a big deal paying their core when they need to.

Given they will need to pay people, that's another reason taking on KD is tough, solely for cap purposes. I doubt we trade KD, but if we do, NY seems far more likely. We wouldn't get as good of players back but could get like 3 or 4 firsts, given they have 8 tradable firsts.

I don't think Presti is the Ish type where he likes to go all in on older players and give up a ton of assets. For us, at the time, they thought if they pair him with Paul and Book with Paul's 2 year window, it could work. But Paul ended up being washed and we amazingly got Beal for him and Shamet.

[Ghost of Kleine]

You've also said-on numerous occasions that you think that Suggs is a bust. Me and you have gone back and forth on that one as well.

Things change. As Suggs as proven this year in Orlando. I've said all along that the playoffs will prove or disprove what the Thunder need.

I didn't say he was a bust, just that he hadn't been any good yet. He's a positive player this year, but it's not like he's doing great. He's a PG averaging 2.6 apg and 1.0 tpg.

But, his scoring has improved tremendously.

The Thunder are still young and ahead of schedule. They are set up for the long haul. I doubt Presti would pull an Ishbia and be shortsighted.

You've been negative about him more or less since his class and we didn't get him. Bringing him up often.....until this season. I wouldn't agree with your neutral opinion that you're claiming now you've had all this time. To say the least. To add onto to your points about him, he, along with another favorite of mine-Jonathan Isaac form a fearsome defensive combo down in ORL. Probably the best 2 man paring in the league.

Not that this is about things I'm right about and me using this as an opportunity to bring them up again. It's more about that fact that players and situations change all the time. Presti is not being short-sighted by using assets to actually buy in on a player that can push them over the top. He's using them for what he got them for. Unless you think his plan is to add another 34 players (the number of picks he has over the next 6 years lol) to his already very good and very young team......?

Sorry guys for this being a bit off topic from your discussion, But IF we were to blow it up and Beal was willing to waive his trade clause rather than wanting to enter a significant rebuild scenario, do you guys think that Orlando might be a fit/possibility for him in trade?? I mean their defense is already rally solid, and they've never really had a legit star guard to lead them, and Beal certianly has leadership attributes and would be a perfect offensive compliment to their overall defensive style of play (at least I'd think he would be).

Maybe something like:
Beal/ Little (Littles' from Orlando)/ Eubanks for Isaac (17 million expiring)/Black/Anthony/ 25' Den 1st (1-5) protected/ ORL 27' 1st.

Maybe we can resign Isaac to a team friendly deal, and Anthony Black can be our young guard prospect, and Cole Anthony could be our off the bench flamethrower scoring guard to replace Gordons' role somewhat? It is an interesting concept to me in that a slightly lower tier big three of Banchero/Beal/Wagner I believe could possibly compete still for the playoffs in the east. Although, I do strongly believe that Miami would possibly be more interested in Beal of the two teams after missing out on Lillard, and Beal being a higher level impact scorer than Rozier whom they settled for. But I still do like Isaac and would explore this IF a viable possibility??

[Calvin Klein]

Maybe something like:
Beal/ Little (Littles' from Orlando)/ Eubanks for Isaac (17 million expiring)/Black/Anthony/ 25' Den 1st (1-5) protected/ ORL 27' 1st.

I'm pretty sure they'd hang up the phone right away

[Slim Charless]

Maybe something like:
Beal/ Little (Littles' from Orlando)/ Eubanks for Isaac (17 million expiring)/Black/Anthony/ 25' Den 1st (1-5) protected/ ORL 27' 1st.

I'm pretty sure they'd hang up the phone right away

My preference would be to keep Beal and bring him off the bench. If he refuses, I'd still keep him as he offers little return value. KD and Nurk are our best non-Booker assets to use this off-season to get better.

Everyone keeps mentioning new coaches without saying who they want. I'm still down for Chris Quinn from the Heat personally, but who knows if Ish wants to pay 2 coaches at 1 time.

[lilfishi22]

I didn't say he was a bust, just that he hadn't been any good yet. He's a positive player this year, but it's not like he's doing great. He's a PG averaging 2.6 apg and 1.0 tpg.

But, his scoring has improved tremendously.

The Thunder are still young and ahead of schedule. They are set up for the long haul. I doubt Presti would pull an Ishbia and be shortsighted.

I still don't think Suggs is that good but he's proven useful this season.

As for Thunder, they are certainly ahead of schedule if you look at their average age and years the league. But often their schedule is based on their best player and how ready they are to take the next step. SGA turns 26 this offseason and while that alone doesn't mean they have to go all in, it's not entirely implausible for there to be some collective motivation to want to speed things up a bit given SGA is heading into his prime and already in his 2nd year of his max extension. For reference, by 26, Book and Tatum already had a Finals appearance under their belt.

I think the odds are against them making a couple of big splashy all-in moves but they've got A LOT of assets and young guys they could work with to get an experienced guy who's absolutely ready to ball right now. I think Slim is right in seeing how they will go in these playoffs because they are the best team in the West, they have a guy who's heading into his prime and while they could sit on internal development, the playoffs may reveal something they lack that can't be attained through that path.

Yeah, but we got Paul for one first, Oubre who we would have gotten rid of anyway, and an older Rubio (so a big upgrade). I don't totally discount a KD to OKC trade, but I don't think we will get a big time core player like Giddey. I think we could get a couple picks and maybe a couple of younger players outside of their rotation.

Could they use Nurk given their lack of rebounding? Sure, but who do we get back? I don't see them giving up a first for him, unless it's a heavily protected one or something, and don't know if they can absorb a contact or who we might get back. My guess is SGA, Jalen, Chet, Giddey and Dort are untouchable for them barring some enormous deal...but still, they are the #1 or #2 seed with a very young team and tons of picks to give them guys on rookie contracts so it won't be a big deal paying their core when they need to.

Given they will need to pay people, that's another reason taking on KD is tough, solely for cap purposes. I doubt we trade KD, but if we do, NY seems far more likely. We wouldn't get as good of players back but could get like 3 or 4 firsts, given they have 8 tradable firsts.

I don't think Presti is the Ish type where he likes to go all in on older players and give up a ton of assets. For us, at the time, they thought if they pair him with Paul and Book with Paul's 2 year window, it could work. But Paul ended up being washed and we amazingly got Beal for him and Shamet.

My post was more a general thought around what OKC may do. Not so much to do with trading with us in particular

[Fifii]

WTF , TD was couple months ago and we can’t make any trade until draft. I don’t know why some people write “Trade KD” or “Trade Booker”. Now we would be focus on the best position before PO and playing with determination through PO. Maybe we lose in Play-In and maybe we win championship , but after season will be the best moment to run ESPN Trade Machine

BTW : Seriously , some people want to trade KD who is the best player in this league ? lMAO