2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - the calm before the storm

[Saberestar]

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Big Nurk saying bye bye to the Warriors. He is great at trolling lol.

[lilfishi22]

Ah good times, I remember when this board was saying the pelicans were going to be the face of the western conference within a year after we beat them. (CJ always chokes)

Again, Kevin Young was fine pre KD trade. Everyone liked him, ball was moving with the 2021 team etc. Simple common denominator(s) KD is an ISO guy, Book is an ISO guy, Beal is less of an ISO guy but still an ISO guy, KD doesn't move w/o the ball, Cam and Mikal were very active without the ball. Doesn't seem like a Kevin Young problem when you have 3 ball stoppers on the floor.

I think it's really hard to judge Young one way or another. We were doing great under Monty/CP3 and even when we were with KD, it looked good with 8 KD games of the regular season under our belt. Even during the Monty era, it's difficult to judge whether it's 50/50 Monty/CP3 or 20/80...and then figuring out where Young comes in is even more difficult.

Now that Monty is gone, CP3 is gone, most of that team that had continuity is gone, it's now a Vogel/Young team but we don't know if this is an all Young offense or a mix or if it's just a matter of Young's offense not gelling well with Vogel's defense. I don't really see why KD is the scapegoat here. Why could we not point towards the lack of a PG who can actually run Young's offense, or that none of the Big 3 nor Nurk have high level PG experience. KD is a tool (not saying it as an insult) and I don't think we've used him as well as we could.

To me, he's a guy who's been doing it at the highest level for 17 years, perennial all-star, perennial all-NBA, elite guy on both ends of the court.....the guy has proven it, and proven it on multiple teams, under multiple coaches and in multiple systems. As far as I'm concerned, he's still playing at a high level so if our offense isn't running as well as it should be, then it's because we're not utilising his talent correctly.

[sunsbg]

If we go deep in the playoffs and CP3 becomes a FA, I wonder if he'll have an interest to sign on a min contract for one last run at a title.

[Slim Charless]

Ah good times, I remember when this board was saying the pelicans were going to be the face of the western conference within a year after we beat them. (CJ always chokes)

Again, Kevin Young was fine pre KD trade. Everyone liked him, ball was moving with the 2021 team etc. Simple common denominator(s) KD is an ISO guy, Book is an ISO guy, Beal is less of an ISO guy but still an ISO guy, KD doesn't move w/o the ball, Cam and Mikal were very active without the ball. Doesn't seem like a Kevin Young problem when you have 3 ball stoppers on the floor.

Wow. I completely agree.

The issue is having three ISO guys. Suns need an actual facilitator and initiator of offense. Perfect world: Beal agrees to come off the bench and we move Booker back to SG, while getting a real PG-hopefully 1 that can play lock down defense.

[Slim Charless]

Also, is anyone else here a fan of grabbing CP3 off waivers if the Dubs renounce his contract this summer? Because I think they will definitely consider it and I'm a fan of bringing him back.

[Ghost of Kleine]

If we go deep in the playoffs and CP3 becomes a FA, I wonder if he'll have an interest to sign on a min contract for one last run at a title.

Surely the Warriors will decline his team option this summer so they can try to restructure their roster better! And IF Paul was actually willing to come back on a vet min deal AND WAS WILLING to play backup guard (obviously his only viable role at this point), I'd absolutely sign up for that!!!

** additionally, I'd then ( knowing he'd intend to sign here again) look to add some high end shooters (I have a list for that too of course) and an elite rim running long super athletic lob threat/ rim protector (from the undrafted pool)for him to set up/ mentor along with our bench vets!

[Slim Charless]

If we go deep in the playoffs and CP3 becomes a FA, I wonder if he'll have an interest to sign on a min contract for one last run at a title.

That's hilarious. I didn't see this and thought I was the 1st one to bring this up to the forum. Hahaha apparently you saw it ahead of time.

I imagine it's the Lakers getting 1st look, but hopefully he'd consider us. He's ironically enough just what we need.

[Saberestar]

Also, is anyone else here a fan of grabbing CP3 off waivers if the Dubs renounce his contract this summer? Because I think they will definitely consider it and I'm a fan of bringing him back.

Not sure about it.

I am gonna wait and see how we play in the playoffs and how far we can go with these players. Then we can talk about roster changes.

[Ghost of Kleine]

https://www.thesportsbank.net/nba/tim-donaghy-nba-fixing/

Tim Donaghy on How NBA Officials Fix Games (Exclusive)
April 17, 2024 By paulmbanks

How the NBA officials fix games (The exclusive)
Tim Donaghy on How NBA Officials Fix Games (Exclusive)
April 17, 2024
By Paul M Banks



With the news today that the NBA has officially handed Jontay Porter a lifetime ban, due to his breaching league gambling rules, we now re-publish our exclusive with ex-NBA referee Tim Donaghy. I had a very in-depth exclusive with him in 2011. We now re-run the highlights of that exclusive in three parts.

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PMB: I’ve seen Phoenix Suns fans blame you for “stealing away” their 2007 title and giving it to the San Antonio Spurs.

TD: I write in the book that there’s no doubt I feel the Phoenix Suns were the best team in in the league in 2007. And that whole series was officiated poorly, and I give the reasons in the book as to why I feel it was officiated poorly. And one of the reasons is that Tommy Nunez was the supervisor of officials in that series.

And he had a dislike for the (Suns) owner Robert Sarver, and he enjoyed the lifestyle in San Antonio, and liked to get back in the next round of the playoffs and continue to go to San Antonio. So it was a situation that he was steering the series to San Antonio in tape sessions.
PMB: That series, dubbed the “real 2007 NBA Finals” by many league experts, seems to be the one that has received the most scrutiny among games you have officiated.

TD: People don’t realize that at that time we weren’t even betting any more because the guy who was involved in the scheme ended up going into rehab, so we were done betting at that time for about a month. So that was just a poorly officiated series from game one all the way until the last game.

PMB: What about the infamous brawl in that series?

TD: Certainly that was mishandled with the subjectivity of the league office as to whether to suspend somebody for doing what they did. Look at what happened with the Miami-Dallas game. Do you think they would have suspended all those players for a game 7? Had there been a game 7, with all those players leaving the bench area the way they did. The rule clearly states you can’t leave the bench area to get involved in an altercation, whether the time out exists or not. In all reality, I doubt they would have suspended all of those players for a game 7. and I don’t think it was handled properly with Phoenix in 2007.

PMB: You have some controversial beliefs about how the NBA allegedly tries to extend the length of high profile playoff series in order to add revenue, and how that process usually entails favoring the big market team and the high profile players. How is this done?

Is it a set of unwritten rules, or casual unorganized meetings? Are there standard, although not formally discussed practices?

TD: There’s unwritten rules and basically it’s done through tape sessions. During the playoffs, they put the referees in hotel rooms and show them plays from previous games, and it could be 10 or 15 plays that they go over that they want called differently, or plays not called that they do want called. And it’s a situation that always go against the team that’s down in the series, and it programs and train the referees to look for certain things and to put a team like Sacramento in 2003, who had a clear disadvantage; and put the Lakers at an advantage.

PMB: And how long has this practice been in place?

TD: Ever since I can remember, and I was hired in 1994.

PMB: So these practices are just out-in-the-open, the league makes no attempt to cover it up?

TD: I don’t think they do cover them up- that’s why see you an enormous number of questionable calls in games the last 10 or 15 years. So you see a situation like that famous 2003 game 6 in L.A. when L.A. went on to force a game 7 and go to the NBA Finals.

And even though there was a lot of questionable calls in that game, they came out and said three referees did a terrible job and it was a horribly refereed game, but yet all three of those referees moved on to the Finals. If they did such a poor job, why didn’t their year end right then and there?

PMB: What about “star calls?”

TD: There’s always been a double standard in the league, there is still a double standard in the league. Lebron James with some pivotal plays scoring a pivotal basket in a playoff game with a minute to go where he clearly traveled, and they let it go. Unfortunately it still exists and the rule book clearly states you don’t referee personalities, and yet every referee in that league referees personalities. They referee the name on the back of the jersey and that’s all based upon the star status and how many jerseys and sneakers that player sells.

PMB: So the only form of a paper trail here is the tape sessions?

TD: Never a paper trail, it’s always through meetings in hotel rooms and tape sessions. It’s done a lot, there were times I would walk out of a room prior to a playoff game, and I would look at the other referees and say “holy ****, they want Dallas to win tonight, or they want L.A. to win tonight.” It was very clear to the referees what the message was.

PMB: When it comes down to individual star power versus big market team interests, who wins? And along the lines of big stars getting favorable calls, does this only happen when the player has established himself? Or is it part of the process in “making” a star player?

TD: The biggest individual brand names, I had a conversation with a guy who’s involved with tv networks and he basically told me this year they needed Miami to advance so badly because Miami and Dallas would bring so much better ratings than Chicago and Dallas. Nobody on the west coast would watch if it was Chicago and Dallas because Lebron James would bring global attention versus somebody like Derrick Rose who wouldn’t.

PMB: Does the league makes an effort to “make stars?” Or does the star have to be established first and then get the calls?

TD: I think the star has to be there and once he gets that status, the league starts to market him and that’s when the referees jump on board and start to give him special treatment.

[Saberestar]

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[garrick]

If we go deep in the playoffs and CP3 becomes a FA, I wonder if he'll have an interest to sign on a min contract for one last run at a title.

Surely the Warriors will decline his team option this summer so they can try to restructure their roster better! And IF Paul was actually willing to come back on a vet min deal AND WAS WILLING to play backup guard (obviously his only viable role at this point), I'd absolutely sign up for that!!!

** additionally, I'd then ( knowing he'd intend to sign here again) look to add some high end shooters (I have a list for that too of course) and an elite rim running long super athletic lob threat/ rim protector (from the undrafted pool)for him to set up/ mentor along with our bench vets!

I seriously doubt he signs with us and another team can pay him more than we can.

The Lakers or the Clippers make the most sense since he wants to be close to his family.

[SunsRback4Good]

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Congrats to KD & Booker for making team USA. We have stacked team unlike last time that should propel us for a gold medal. I’ll be watching the games more closely.

[NapoleonII]

I am worried about Minny figuring out how to guard us.

Putting Gobert on KD seems like their best bet - he's got the length to bother his mid-range and pull-ups. And let's face it, KD isn't driving it much these days. So that'll leave Towns on Nurk, McDaniels on Book and Ant on Beal.

We really need to not fall into ISO ball.

Allen is key to this series, I think and Beal. We need their offense rolling so Allen can punish them with hot shooting, and Beal with attacking and finishing.


Defensively we should be fine if Nurk can stay out of foul trouble.

[sunsbg]

If we go deep in the playoffs and CP3 becomes a FA, I wonder if he'll have an interest to sign on a min contract for one last run at a title.

That's hilarious. I didn't see this and thought I was the 1st one to bring this up to the forum. Hahaha apparently you saw it ahead of time.

I imagine it's the Lakers getting 1st look, but hopefully he'd consider us. He's ironically enough just what we need.

After I posted it I saw there is a thread on Reddit about it. Someone even brought drafting Bronny and Lebron joining us. Now that would be one really old super duper team.

[Saberestar]

I am worried about Minny figuring out how to guard us.

Putting Gobert on KD seems like their best bet - he's got the length to bother his mid-range and pull-ups. And let's face it, KD isn't driving it much these days. So that'll leave Towns on Nurk, McDaniels on Book and Ant on Beal.

We really need to not fall into ISO ball.

Allen is key to this series, I think and Beal. We need their offense rolling so Allen can punish them with hot shooting, and Beal with attacking and finishing.


Defensively we should be fine if Nurk can stay out of foul trouble.

Gobert is too slow to bother KD.

It's not about KD driving to the rim, it's about reaction time. Gobert can't contest effectively his jumpers because he isn't quick enough to make a good closeout or to react to his offensive repertoire.

Double team KD with McDaniels as primary defender is probably their best defensive option.

[sunsbum]

I am worried about Minny figuring out how to guard us.

Putting Gobert on KD seems like their best bet - he's got the length to bother his mid-range and pull-ups. And let's face it, KD isn't driving it much these days. So that'll leave Towns on Nurk, McDaniels on Book and Ant on Beal.

We really need to not fall into ISO ball.

Allen is key to this series, I think and Beal. We need their offense rolling so Allen can punish them with hot shooting, and Beal with attacking and finishing.


Defensively we should be fine if Nurk can stay out of foul trouble.

You think Rudy Gobert of all people is going to bother KD? That’s some kind of imagination you got up there <3

[dremill24]

I am worried about Minny figuring out how to guard us.

Putting Gobert on KD seems like their best bet - he's got the length to bother his mid-range and pull-ups. And let's face it, KD isn't driving it much these days. So that'll leave Towns on Nurk, McDaniels on Book and Ant on Beal.

We really need to not fall into ISO ball.

Allen is key to this series, I think and Beal. We need their offense rolling so Allen can punish them with hot shooting, and Beal with attacking and finishing.


Defensively we should be fine if Nurk can stay out of foul trouble.

McDaniels has kinda owned Booker...I'd keep going to that well if I were them.

[bwgood77]

If we go deep in the playoffs and CP3 becomes a FA, I wonder if he'll have an interest to sign on a min contract for one last run at a title.

I don't think so. I don't think he really wants to play for "Mat and Isiah"

[Revived]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

If we go deep in the playoffs and CP3 becomes a FA, I wonder if he'll have an interest to sign on a min contract for one last run at a title.

Surely the Warriors will decline his team option this summer so they can try to restructure their roster better! And IF Paul was actually willing to come back on a vet min deal AND WAS WILLING to play backup guard (obviously his only viable role at this point), I'd absolutely sign up for that!!!

** additionally, I'd then ( knowing he'd intend to sign here again) look to add some high end shooters (I have a list for that too of course) and an elite rim running long super athletic lob threat/ rim protector (from the undrafted pool)for him to set up/ mentor along with our bench vets!

I seriously doubt he signs with us and another team can pay him more than we can.

The Lakers or the Clippers make the most sense since he wants to be close to his family.

You make really good points!
And you're probably right that he might prefer the Flakers or even another team to be closer to his family. But Out of the Lakers and us, he probably realizes that we'd (aside from league/refs propping them up for Le'Douches' legacy) be his very best chance with the sheer star power that we do have, AND that he'd fit perfectly in a supplementary role of the bench as an ideal match off our bench, and the likely missing piece that could get him his ring by shoring that position up for us?


The only better options that I'd see for him having a legit chance at a ring beside us might be Denver or Boston. But I'm not sure either would really have a need for a guard? Maybe he could consider Milwaukee or New York though? But then he'd be much farther away from Cali and his family than he would be with us after all. But with all three of Booker, Beal, Durant here already, Paul wouldn't have to do as much heavy lifting, and that might also be appealing to him in a reduced role?