2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - the calm before the storm

[Son of Ra]

And we’d be ‘continuing’ mediocrity with Book and Beal as our 1 and 2.

No. We wouldn't.

You're not considering our take from a Durant trade Frank, we'll get a haul.

I think OKC is the team but let's use BW's idea of the Knicks. You don't think having Randle to help score down low-while being a decent passer too will help? Add into the equation someone like Josh Hart who is a gritty dirty work guy(averaging over 8 boards a game at 6'4!!!)....someone who can fill in the gaps here? Plus we can even sell high on Nurk for more picks-which FTR the record we should. That allows us to get Mitchell Robinson off of them as well as multiple picks.

So then you'd have:

Booker
Beal
Hart
Randle
Mitchell

Plus the picks we get from our Nurk trade and the ones NYC sends over. That'd be a good team that fits together well and we have picks to use and to live if need be.

I know ur "thing" is to be negative lol. It has been more or less since we traded Rubio. I assume even you can see the potential with that team.

Spoiler:

My OKC plan is better than BW's thing, but I've mentioned that enough already

And you really think this owner/GM/front office would be able to pull this off?
And I'm not Frank but answering this for him...why do optimists always take realism for negativity?

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I've been saying, essentially, two things:

1. I could see KD wanting out this offseason, because this team isn't built well and isn't good enough, and we lack the means to improve it. If he sticks around, we should expect his trade value to tank the following season, leaving us in a worse position medium- and long-term. It would cost a mind-boggling amount of money - and in all likelihood, we'd be worse next year than this year, because the clock only moves forward.

And we’d be ‘continuing’ mediocrity with Book and Beal as our 1 and 2.

Exactly, and we can't trade Beal. Leaves us choosing between running Booker at the 3 or having a $50 mil per guy in his prime come off our bench. If we kept Durant we'd have to start KD and Booker at the forward spots - yuck! There's a reason people were shocked when we dealt for Beal in the first place. KD *should* want out.

2. If KD wants out, Booker should want out, too. And we'd be smart to acquiesce, rather than waste his career selling tickets for a team that can't compete.

But let me clarify a third point, which is implicit in my position:

3. Moving KD for players rather than picks would more or less cement our spot in purgatory, because we don't have picks or cap space, and we can't trade Beal. There is no realistic scenario in which we trade KD and are a better team as a result. KD's been phenomenal this season.

So then you'd have:

Booker
Beal
Hart
Randle
Mitchell

My point exactly. KD might be injury-prone due to age, but Julius Randle is injury-prone because he's injury-prone. Same with Mitch Rob. That hypothetical Knicks/Suns hybrid lineup - which is about the best I can imagine getting back would get wrecked. we'd probably see about 10 games of it due to injuries - and the fans would probably give up on them after 5 games. Frank's right that we need a PG, but I don't see how we could even play a PG, let alone obtain one.

[starbosa10]

Trading Book is condemning this team to another decade of mediocrity like most of the 2010s. A stockpile of picks only helps if you hit in the draft (we haven't really since book and mikal) or if you use them to trade for a disgruntled star (whose going to want to come here to play with Beal and role guys). What turned this team around was the bubble suns and players like cp3 wanting to play with Book

I can see the argument for trading KD to get assets to retool around Book before KD's value drops off but trading both would be a disaster

[Slim Charless]

Trading Book is condemning this team to another decade of mediocrity like most of the 2010s. A stockpile of picks only helps if you hit in the draft (we haven't really since book and mikal) or if you use them to trade for a disgruntled star (whose going to want to come here to play with Beal and role guys). What turned this team around was the bubble suns and players like cp3 wanting to play with Book

I can see the argument for trading KD to get assets to retool around Book before KD's value drops off but trading both would be a disaster

This can't be said enough.

Aside from everything you said, it's just not needed. We will get enough from a KD trade to make things happen-and with players that are around Booker's age.

[Slim Charless]

I've been saying, essentially, two things:

1. I could see KD wanting out this offseason, because this team isn't built well and isn't good enough, and we lack the means to improve it. If he sticks around, we should expect his trade value to tank the following season, leaving us in a worse position medium- and long-term. It would cost a mind-boggling amount of money - and in all likelihood, we'd be worse next year than this year, because the clock only moves forward.

And we’d be ‘continuing’ mediocrity with Book and Beal as our 1 and 2.

Exactly, and we can't trade Beal. Leaves us choosing between running Booker at the 3 or having a $50 mil per guy in his prime come off our bench. If we kept Durant we'd have to start KD and Booker at the forward spots - yuck! There's a reason people were shocked when we dealt for Beal in the first place. KD *should* want out.

2. If KD wants out, Booker should want out, too. And we'd be smart to acquiesce, rather than waste his career selling tickets for a team that can't compete.

But let me clarify a third point, which is implicit in my position:

3. Moving KD for players rather than picks would more or less cement our spot in purgatory, because we don't have picks or cap space, and we can't trade Beal. There is no realistic scenario in which we trade KD and are a better team as a result. KD's been phenomenal this season.

So then you'd have:

Booker
Beal
Hart
Randle
Mitchell

My point exactly. KD might be injury-prone due to age, but Julius Randle is injury-prone because he's injury-prone. Same with Mitch Rob. That hypothetical Knicks/Suns hybrid lineup - which is about the best I can imagine getting back would get wrecked. we'd probably see about 10 games of it due to injuries - and the fans would probably give up on them after 5 games. Frank's right that we need a PG, but I don't see how we could even play a PG, let alone obtain one.

Randle has played in a minimum of 70 games in his career, every year until now-except for 1 yr. Come on, at least TRY here a little. Mitch Robinson OTOH, is injury prone but we don't NEED to bring him aboard. We can just take Randle and Hart-that would just mean NYC makes the difference up with more picks. Totally fine with that lol.

Booker will not want out if we bring him better players-even more so guys that are in his 20s and can help take the burden off of him. Hart is a fantastic dirty work player to get and would be a must for me. There's many guys here that don't watch other teams besides the Suns and trust me, he'd be beloved in this forum if we got him. Randle, is actually a good player to play next to Book/Beal in that he can do work in the paint and can help both of them facilitate the offense. He actually plays defense now too after so many years under Tibs.

Like I've said many times, I think OKC is the best (and most likely) scenario. Either way, though WBF if a Durant trade happens. Ishbia, if we make the trade will have egg on his face and will want to get some good assests back. So I have 0.00% fear level of us trading KD for scrubs. Even JJ can't **** this up.

[dremill24]

Not arguing for or against any approach with this statement but its quite funny that people are afraid of moving guys for fear of being "mediocre" (or some synonym) like the team isnt already mediocre as is lol

[Ghost of Kleine]

I've been saying, essentially, two things:

1. I could see KD wanting out this offseason, because this team isn't built well and isn't good enough, and we lack the means to improve it. If he sticks around, we should expect his trade value to tank the following season, leaving us in a worse position medium- and long-term. It would cost a mind-boggling amount of money - and in all likelihood, we'd be worse next year than this year, because the clock only moves forward.

And we’d be ‘continuing’ mediocrity with Book and Beal as our 1 and 2.

Exactly, and we can't trade Beal. Leaves us choosing between running Booker at the 3 or having a $50 mil per guy in his prime come off our bench. If we kept Durant we'd have to start KD and Booker at the forward spots - yuck! There's a reason people were shocked when we dealt for Beal in the first place. KD *should* want out.

2. If KD wants out, Booker should want out, too. And we'd be smart to acquiesce, rather than waste his career selling tickets for a team that can't compete.

But let me clarify a third point, which is implicit in my position:

3. Moving KD for players rather than picks would more or less cement our spot in purgatory, because we don't have picks or cap space, and we can't trade Beal. There is no realistic scenario in which we trade KD and are a better team as a result. KD's been phenomenal this season.

So then you'd have:

Booker
Beal
Hart
Randle
Mitchell

My point exactly. KD might be injury-prone due to age, but Julius Randle is injury-prone because he's injury-prone. Same with Mitch Rob. That hypothetical Knicks/Suns hybrid lineup - which is about the best I can imagine getting back would get wrecked. we'd probably see about 10 games of it due to injuries - and the fans would probably give up on them after 5 games. Frank's right that we need a PG, but I don't see how we could even play a PG, let alone obtain one.

Randle has played in a minimum of 70 games in his career, every year until now-except for 1 yr. Come on, at least TRY here a little. Mitch Robinson OTOH, is injury prone but we don't NEED to bring him aboard. We can just take Randle and Hart-that would just mean NYC makes the difference up with more picks. Totally fine with that lol.

Booker will not want out if we bring him better players-even more so guys that are in his 20s and can help take the burden off of him. Hart is a fantastic dirty work player to get and would be a must for me. There's many guys here that don't watch other teams besides the Suns and trust me, he'd be beloved in this forum if we got him. Randle, is actually a good player to play next to Book/Beal in that he can do work in the paint and can help both of them facilitate the offense. He actually plays defense now too after so many years under Tibs.

Like I've said many times, I think OKC is the best (and most likely) scenario. Either way, though WBF if a Durant trade happens. Ishbia, if we make the trade will have egg on his face and will want to get some good assests back. So I have 0.00% fear level of us trading KD for scrubs. Even JJ can't **** this up.

Glad to see we share a similar perspective on what Randles' underlying value could be to us IN ADDITION TO the necessary salary exchange filler to reach the near 50 million for KDs deal. This is what I mentioned for my trade suggestion as well as the value he'd being in terms of a physical, versatile paint presence with playmaking ability and constant aggression/ grit to keep our players engaged more.

And honestly, an alternative core of Beal/ Booker/ Allen/ Randle/ Nurkic would give us two dominant, physical frontcourt bigs that not only Booker and Beal could play off of offensively due to the gravity those two would create in the paint, but also for our shooters in Allen and Gordon, whoever really, etc???

And Randle, IF he balled out in our scheme, represents a younger asset that we could flip for more upgrades, picks as his value peaks. Same with Nurkic, which would give us more sustainable pivot options for our core.

[bwgood77]

Booker for picks is the path of tearing this whole thing down, if we decide to go down that path. Not advocating for it and I don't believe ImNotMcDiSwear is either but if the team/Ish decides to pull the plug (ie rebuild, not a reset) than yes, you trade away your valued assets for future assets. It happens in the NBA, semi-regularly. Off the top of my head, we saw Portland do it just last offseason.

I sound like a broken record here...but again Durant just got finished with debatabley his best season since the OKC years. We will get a good return for him as long as JJ hasn't lost his mind.

I doubt Ish will intercede to take the 1st offer if it comes down to us trading him. We'll get more than enough to continue on with Booker and Beal.

I don't think we're tearing it down either. I just agree with ImNotMcDiSwear that not making the KD trade doesn't mean we're in some magically better place nor that we would necessarily get back equal assets back for what we gave up for KD. However, I don't agree we're going down a burn it all down path. I've said it before, I don't believe Ish is in it purely for the short term.

Of course Ish isn't in it purely for the short term, but he'll be in for a rude awakening when he realizes it's not easy to sign a star free agent or clear the cap space to do so. We are stuck with a lot of minimums and very few draft picks for a long time. Sarver did the same thing though...tried to go all in and thought it would happen forever, signed those Amare "replacements" and then we were in 10+ years of hell.

[bwgood77]

And we’d be ‘continuing’ mediocrity with Book and Beal as our 1 and 2.

No. We wouldn't.

You're not considering our take from a Durant trade Frank, we'll get a haul.

I think OKC is the team but let's use BW's idea of the Knicks. You don't think having Randle to help score down low-while being a decent passer too will help? Add into the equation someone like Josh Hart who is a gritty dirty work guy(averaging over 8 boards a game at 6'4!!!)....someone who can fill in the gaps here? Plus we can even sell high on Nurk for more picks-which FTR the record we should. That allows us to get Mitchell Robinson off of them as well as multiple picks.

So then you'd have:

Booker
Beal
Hart
Randle
Mitchell

Plus the picks we get from our Nurk trade and the ones NYC sends over. That'd be a good team that fits together well and we have picks to use and to live if need be.

I know ur "thing" is to be negative lol. It has been more or less since we traded Rubio. I assume even you can see the potential with that team.

Spoiler:

My OKC plan is better than BW's thing, but I've mentioned that enough already

I'd take DiVincenzo over Hart and make sure to get McBride, and they have 8 tradable firsts and are definitely not rebuilding, plus KD's family wants the Knicks and the fans would probably love in, whereas ,for example, the OKC fans hate him. But Presti's definitely a "build through the draft" guy. That's all he's done....always trading the old vets, not the other way around.

[bwgood77]

I've been saying, essentially, two things:

1. I could see KD wanting out this offseason, because this team isn't built well and isn't good enough, and we lack the means to improve it. If he sticks around, we should expect his trade value to tank the following season, leaving us in a worse position medium- and long-term. It would cost a mind-boggling amount of money - and in all likelihood, we'd be worse next year than this year, because the clock only moves forward.

And we’d be ‘continuing’ mediocrity with Book and Beal as our 1 and 2.

Exactly, and we can't trade Beal. Leaves us choosing between running Booker at the 3 or having a $50 mil per guy in his prime come off our bench. If we kept Durant we'd have to start KD and Booker at the forward spots - yuck! There's a reason people were shocked when we dealt for Beal in the first place. KD *should* want out.

2. If KD wants out, Booker should want out, too. And we'd be smart to acquiesce, rather than waste his career selling tickets for a team that can't compete.

But let me clarify a third point, which is implicit in my position:

3. Moving KD for players rather than picks would more or less cement our spot in purgatory, because we don't have picks or cap space, and we can't trade Beal. There is no realistic scenario in which we trade KD and are a better team as a result. KD's been phenomenal this season.

So then you'd have:

Booker
Beal
Hart
Randle
Mitchell

My point exactly. KD might be injury-prone due to age, but Julius Randle is injury-prone because he's injury-prone. Same with Mitch Rob. That hypothetical Knicks/Suns hybrid lineup - which is about the best I can imagine getting back would get wrecked. we'd probably see about 10 games of it due to injuries - and the fans would probably give up on them after 5 games. Frank's right that we need a PG, but I don't see how we could even play a PG, let alone obtain one.

The main thing about the Knicks is they want to win NOW AND they have 8 tradable first rounders...regardless we will need filler when trading for KD, so like I've said, Randle is a must, given KD would play PF, and we get a young PG in McBride and a gritty role player in Vincenzo...this is all filler and maybe 4-5 picks. KD asked out of Brooklyn..I don't see them trading back for them. Brunson, him and OG is a great combo of players. Mitch Rob is a nice C to have next to KD too.

[bwgood77]

I think it all comes down to how far we get into the playoffs. If we get to the WCF, I think we keep it together. If we lose in the first or second round I think we look at trading KD, but not Book. Then we see how we do. I am not super high on Randle but he is a great passer, rebounder and can score. But if not, let him expire and look for more role players. Book/Beal/Allen/O'Neale/Divincenzo/Nurk to trade maybe, McBride, and hopefully some nice picks can expire. Book will be in the first year of a supermax. My guess is we would not entertain trading him even if we are not great the one year post KD....he's too beloved by the fans and it would be enormously unpopular. But if we go 2 years not good, then I could see us looking at trading him. Book and Beal as your top two is better than it sounds, because Beal can be your go to guy, and definitely between them it's a nice combo. Many felt Book would be in the running for MVP. Beal's #s have been almost identical over the years, he's led the league in scoring at like 32 ppg, etc.

Get defensive guys, shooters, etc..but most importantly we add more guys every draft. I didn't even mention Randle in that group. Try him for a year. The Knicks got a high seed one year before Brunson. They were not great, but they didn't have a Booker or Beal either.

[Slim Charless]

And we’d be ‘continuing’ mediocrity with Book and Beal as our 1 and 2.

No. We wouldn't.

You're not considering our take from a Durant trade Frank, we'll get a haul.

I think OKC is the team but let's use BW's idea of the Knicks. You don't think having Randle to help score down low-while being a decent passer too will help? Add into the equation someone like Josh Hart who is a gritty dirty work guy(averaging over 8 boards a game at 6'4!!!)....someone who can fill in the gaps here? Plus we can even sell high on Nurk for more picks-which FTR the record we should. That allows us to get Mitchell Robinson off of them as well as multiple picks.

So then you'd have:

Booker
Beal
Hart
Randle
Mitchell

Plus the picks we get from our Nurk trade and the ones NYC sends over. That'd be a good team that fits together well and we have picks to use and to live if need be.

I know ur "thing" is to be negative lol. It has been more or less since we traded Rubio. I assume even you can see the potential with that team.

Spoiler:

My OKC plan is better than BW's thing, but I've mentioned that enough already

I'd take DiVincenzo over Hart and make sure to get McBride, and they have 8 tradable firsts and are definitely not rebuilding, plus KD's family wants the Knicks and the fans would probably love in, whereas ,for example, the OKC fans hate him. But Presti's definitely a "build through the draft" guy. That's all he's done....always trading the old vets, not the other way around.

Pretty sure you'll be proven wrong. Maybe it's Durant, maybe it's not. Either way Presti will be moving picks and players this summer.

100%


Also: why would you choose Donte over Hart? We don't need more scoring.

[bwgood77]

No. We wouldn't.

You're not considering our take from a Durant trade Frank, we'll get a haul.

I think OKC is the team but let's use BW's idea of the Knicks. You don't think having Randle to help score down low-while being a decent passer too will help? Add into the equation someone like Josh Hart who is a gritty dirty work guy(averaging over 8 boards a game at 6'4!!!)....someone who can fill in the gaps here? Plus we can even sell high on Nurk for more picks-which FTR the record we should. That allows us to get Mitchell Robinson off of them as well as multiple picks.

So then you'd have:

Booker
Beal
Hart
Randle
Mitchell

Plus the picks we get from our Nurk trade and the ones NYC sends over. That'd be a good team that fits together well and we have picks to use and to live if need be.

I know ur "thing" is to be negative lol. It has been more or less since we traded Rubio. I assume even you can see the potential with that team.

Spoiler:

My OKC plan is better than BW's thing, but I've mentioned that enough already

I'd take DiVincenzo over Hart and make sure to get McBride, and they have 8 tradable firsts and are definitely not rebuilding, plus KD's family wants the Knicks and the fans would probably love in, whereas ,for example, the OKC fans hate him. But Presti's definitely a "build through the draft" guy. That's all he's done....always trading the old vets, not the other way around.

Pretty sure you'll be proven wrong. Maybe it's Durant, maybe it's not. Either way Presti will be moving picks and players this summer.

100%

I won't be surprised if he moves a pick or two but not really in key core players and picks for a 36 year old KD that screwed them in FA.

[spanishninja]

No, it's not a better team now, but like Redick said on his pod, you need stars and role players, not just stars. But we likely are a better team 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 years from now with a lot of cheap rookie contracts with a pretty nice young core.

Though even without the KD trade, I still would have made that no brainer CP3 and Shamet for Beal trade, Jae for Grayson Allen and Ayton for the best we could get...or the same Ayton deal and the 5 2nds for Jae.

I think Beal/Book/Bridges/Cam/Nurkic + Allen as 6th man, keep Payne, still get Royce O'Neale when available, etc would be good. Beal definitely could be secondary scorer and Bridges a solid 3rd guy that is highly valued around the league.

But yeah, we are probably better this year....and maybe next if KD stays healthy again.

in today's league, virtually nobody builds a team considering 5+ years from now, unless you are playing the forever tank game like Philly and OKC, and that doesn't always work. Even Houston wanted to accelerate their rebuild by bringing in FVV and Udoka.

And a Beal/Book/Bridge/Cam/Nurk lineup is most definitely not doing better than what we have. upside is much lower, and assuming Beal and Book would have been injured at the start of the season, there would have been no KD to carry us. Did we already forget how many games he singlehandedly kept us in when it was just him out there? Bridges and Cam weren't doing that, or are there people who still think Mikal is a legit 1st or even 2nd option on a good team?

What? A bunch of teams build for 5+ years out. Just in the last year or so, you had the Spurs trade Murrray for 3 first rounders. Houston, after competing for a number of years, rebuilt with 3-4 young players in Green, Jabari Smith, Sengun, etc....that started 3-4 years ago. Then yes, they wanted to add a couple of vets. Utah just traded Gobert for 5 firsts and then Mitchell for Markkanen, Sexton, etc. The Pelicans traded AD for a ton of picks, a very young Ingram, Ball, etc, and then had a few high picks for Zion, Jones, etc. The Raptors are doing it now. Of course OKC did it trading Westbrook and then George for a ton of picks, then Paul, Horford, etc. In 2021, the Magic, after a couple years in the playoffs, traded Aaron Gordon, Vucevic, Fournier, Payton, etc, for picks and young players to get high draft picks for a few years. The Pacers did it trading Sabonis for a young player (of course they may not have expected him to become a top 10 player, especially so quickly), Buddy Hield, Brogdon, LeVert and Craig to us to get a top 10 pick to get young players like Toppin, Mathurin, Jalen Smith...they also were trying to trade Myles Turner for awhile. They did a fast rebuild considering how good Haliburton is and keeping Turner, but Haliburton, Toppin, Mathurin, etc, are guys they will certainly have 5+ years out. The Grizzlies did it getting rid of Gasol 4-5 years back along with Conley, then later to build around JJJ and get a high pick in Morant and then Bane, etc, to build for 5+ years out.

Any time you are going to a COMPLETE rebuild and going for even 1 or 2 really high picks, even if only for 2-3 years and hope you start getting better then, because those teams that traded stars typically have other teams' picks and maybe for 5-7 years, like the Pelicans, Thunder, Utah, SA, etc, did, that is building for 5+ years out, because you will have the rights to those players for 8-9 years. Just because they try to add vets 3 years into it to add a vet or two after 3 high picks to be your future, doesn't mean you are not trying to build for 5+ years out...those rookies you got typically don't hit their peak for 5-8 years when they get into their 2nd contract. Most non huge market good teams have to do it unless they are superb at drafting like the Nuggets.

All of the teams you listed are treadmill teams at best. If you are ok with not contending for at least 5 years, sure you can build that way. but are you ok with that?

[Slim Charless]

I'd take DiVincenzo over Hart and make sure to get McBride, and they have 8 tradable firsts and are definitely not rebuilding, plus KD's family wants the Knicks and the fans would probably love in, whereas ,for example, the OKC fans hate him. But Presti's definitely a "build through the draft" guy. That's all he's done....always trading the old vets, not the other way around.

Pretty sure you'll be proven wrong. Maybe it's Durant, maybe it's not. Either way Presti will be moving picks and players this summer.

100%

I won't be surprised if he moves a pick or two but not really in key core players and picks for a 36 year old KD that screwed them in FA.

That's not what I said in the post you quoted. I said "maybe, maybe not KD" Also, why do you want Donte over Hart?

[bwgood77]

in today's league, virtually nobody builds a team considering 5+ years from now, unless you are playing the forever tank game like Philly and OKC, and that doesn't always work. Even Houston wanted to accelerate their rebuild by bringing in FVV and Udoka.

And a Beal/Book/Bridge/Cam/Nurk lineup is most definitely not doing better than what we have. upside is much lower, and assuming Beal and Book would have been injured at the start of the season, there would have been no KD to carry us. Did we already forget how many games he singlehandedly kept us in when it was just him out there? Bridges and Cam weren't doing that, or are there people who still think Mikal is a legit 1st or even 2nd option on a good team?

What? A bunch of teams build for 5+ years out. Just in the last year or so, you had the Spurs trade Murrray for 3 first rounders. Houston, after competing for a number of years, rebuilt with 3-4 young players in Green, Jabari Smith, Sengun, etc....that started 3-4 years ago. Then yes, they wanted to add a couple of vets. Utah just traded Gobert for 5 firsts and then Mitchell for Markkanen, Sexton, etc. The Pelicans traded AD for a ton of picks, a very young Ingram, Ball, etc, and then had a few high picks for Zion, Jones, etc. The Raptors are doing it now. Of course OKC did it trading Westbrook and then George for a ton of picks, then Paul, Horford, etc. In 2021, the Magic, after a couple years in the playoffs, traded Aaron Gordon, Vucevic, Fournier, Payton, etc, for picks and young players to get high draft picks for a few years. The Pacers did it trading Sabonis for a young player (of course they may not have expected him to become a top 10 player, especially so quickly), Buddy Hield, Brogdon, LeVert and Craig to us to get a top 10 pick to get young players like Toppin, Mathurin, Jalen Smith...they also were trying to trade Myles Turner for awhile. They did a fast rebuild considering how good Haliburton is and keeping Turner, but Haliburton, Toppin, Mathurin, etc, are guys they will certainly have 5+ years out. The Grizzlies did it getting rid of Gasol 4-5 years back along with Conley, then later to build around JJJ and get a high pick in Morant and then Bane, etc, to build for 5+ years out.

Any time you are going to a COMPLETE rebuild and going for even 1 or 2 really high picks, even if only for 2-3 years and hope you start getting better then, because those teams that traded stars typically have other teams' picks and maybe for 5-7 years, like the Pelicans, Thunder, Utah, SA, etc, did, that is building for 5+ years out, because you will have the rights to those players for 8-9 years. Just because they try to add vets 3 years into it to add a vet or two after 3 high picks to be your future, doesn't mean you are not trying to build for 5+ years out...those rookies you got typically don't hit their peak for 5-8 years when they get into their 2nd contract. Most non huge market good teams have to do it unless they are superb at drafting like the Nuggets.

All of the teams you listed are treadmill teams at best. If you are ok with not contending for at least 5 years, sure you can build that way. but are you ok with that?

If I know we are improving every year, yes. Right now we are struggling to avoid the play in and the oldest team in the NBA with only a couple firsts in the next 6-7 years.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Thanks for the correction on Randle, Slim. Don't know why I had it in my head that Randle's injury prone.

I guess y'all have persuaded me. If we dealt KD, we'd hold onto Booker and keep trying. It's not what I would do, but yeah. Of course y'all are right.

I just hope we don't keep dealing picks trying to make it work because I'd be shocked - SHOCKED - if we were somehow able to build a contender that way. If I were much older I'd be resigned to the inevitability of living my whole life without a single ring to show for it!

[bwgood77]

Pretty sure you'll be proven wrong. Maybe it's Durant, maybe it's not. Either way Presti will be moving picks and players this summer.

100%

I won't be surprised if he moves a pick or two but not really in key core players and picks for a 36 year old KD that screwed them in FA.

That's not what I said in the post you quoted. I said "maybe, maybe not KD" Also, why do you want Donte over Hart?

He's younger, he's a 40% 3pt shooter while Hart is a 30% shooter, he's better from 2, he's a better defender. He has a winning mentality. He was the best player in the national championship game where Villanova won with Bridges, Brunson and him. Stepped up big. Plays hard. He's not great, but Hart definitely isn't. I think we need guys that can definitely stretch the floor and hit the 3.

[Slim Charless]

I won't be surprised if he moves a pick or two but not really in key core players and picks for a 36 year old KD that screwed them in FA.

That's not what I said in the post you quoted. I said "maybe, maybe not KD" Also, why do you want Donte over Hart?

He's younger, he's a 40% 3pt shooter while Hart is a 30% shooter, he's better from 2, he's a better defender. He has a winning mentality. He was the best player in the national championship game where Villanova won with Bridges, Brunson and him. Stepped up big. Plays hard. He's not great, but Hart definitely isn't. I think we need guys that can definitely stretch the floor and hit the 3.

Hmmmmm.

Well he's younger, so that part is correct. He also went to Nova and was a key player. As for the rest.

He's not a better defender. Most advanced numbers back that statement up as does the eye tests. I don't think he's as quick or as strong. Hart has proven his ability to play hard when he grabs 8 boards a game while outworking guys who have almost a foot on him.

Your statement that Hart isn't good makes wonder how much NYK you watch.

DD is a better shooter....but we don't need that as we'll have Grayson. Randle will be shooting a lot too. Basically most of what he does, we have.

But it won't matter because OKC will trade for KD and I'll be proven right.

[Qwigglez]

I don't think the Knicks are about to trade any of those Nova guys, those guys have insane chemistry and part of the reason for the success the Knicks are having this year. I know they desperately want to get Mikal Bridges to the Knicks, but IDK how that is possible. I could see OG Anunoby being a viable trade candidate, however with his injury history, it is doubtful his market is very high.

I also don't think the Suns are about to trade anyone this offseason. I know many do not view this season as being successful, but I would disagree. The Suns were very cautious in their approach for regular season games, which is why Beal sat out for so many games throughout the season. But we saw last year how the Lakers and Heat were successful in the playoffs even though they were dogging it throughout the regular season and were both play-in teams. I think the Suns are thinking the same thing where home court doesn't really matter (except for Denver because of the altitude) as long as we are in the playoffs. I am definitely still worried about the Suns 4th quarter woes, but I think they are finally clicking a lot more than they have been.

Also... I was recently looking at the Suns roster in the playoffs last year vs the Nuggets, specifically after CP3 was out the final 4 games where the Suns went 2-2 vs the eventual champions...

PG: Payne
SG: Booker
SF: Okogie
PF: KD
C: Ayton

Reserves: Warren, Shamet, Landale, Ross, Craig

Compared to this season's roster...

PG: Beal
SG: Booker
SF: Allen
PF: KD
C: Nurkic

Reserves: EG, Royce, Bol, Okogie, Young, Eubanks

Suns are significantly better, and I know Booker and KD went crazy against the Nuggets, but I think the supporting cast has improved tremendously this year.