2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - the calm before the storm

[spanishninja]

I think we finish 8th.

Lose to Sacramento away play in
Beat Lakers at home play in
Lose 4-1 to Denver 1st round

if you think they will let Lebron lose in an elimination game to get into the playoffs, you are mistaken.

[Sunlight]

Booker doesn't have the ability to run the game intelligently. Often throws a stupid heroball triple attempt and the flow disappears from the whole team. He is not a leading player on a contender team. You can't talk about him in the same sentence as Kobe, CP3 or Luka. Rich man's Monte Ellis is the best metaphor as someone here very well mentioned yesterday.
There was a reason why CP3 came to the Suns. He saw that the orchestra was talented enough to go all the way, but the conductor was missing. In the end, Saric's injury watered down the championship.
The 2031 season is just around the corner. It's a bit of a wait to get there, but a true fan can handle it. Hopefully without Booker.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

If/when the Suns lose in the first or second round next month, I would strongly reach out to Houston and ask them for this same offer + Whitmore for KD.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

If/when the Suns lose in the first or second round next month, I would strongly reach out to Houston and ask them for this same offer + Whitmore for KD.

Sounds like a plan!

[sunskerr]

Booker doesn't have the ability to run the game intelligently. Often throws a stupid heroball triple attempt and the flow disappears from the whole team. He is not a leading player on a contender team. You can't talk about him in the same sentence as Kobe, CP3 or Luka. Rich man's Monte Ellis is the best metaphor as someone here very well mentioned yesterday.
There was a reason why CP3 came to the Suns. He saw that the orchestra was talented enough to go all the way, but the conductor was missing. In the end, Saric's injury watered down the championship.
The 2031 season is just around the corner. It's a bit of a wait to get there, but a true fan can handle it. Hopefully without Booker.

hes not monta ellis...dont have to exaggerate to get the point across. He's just not a main guy. You got the top tier of Jokic/Giannis/Shai/Luka etc (Wemby will join them next year but his team sucks) then the next tier of Tatum etc and Booker, if he's in that next tier, is going to be at/near the bottom of it.

But I agree the hero ball stuff is just awful to watch.

Read on Twitter

If/when the Suns lose in the first or second round next month, I would strongly reach out to Houston and ask them for this same offer + Whitmore for KD.

They won't give all that up for KD lol. But I'd settle trading KD for less lol. This team is going nowhere.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Booker doesn't have the ability to run the game intelligently. Often throws a stupid heroball triple attempt and the flow disappears from the whole team. He is not a leading player on a contender team. You can't talk about him in the same sentence as Kobe, CP3 or Luka. Rich man's Monte Ellis is the best metaphor as someone here very well mentioned yesterday.
There was a reason why CP3 came to the Suns. He saw that the orchestra was talented enough to go all the way, but the conductor was missing. In the end, Saric's injury watered down the championship.
The 2031 season is just around the corner. It's a bit of a wait to get there, but a true fan can handle it. Hopefully without Booker.

hes not monta ellis...dont have to exaggerate to get the point across. He's just not a main guy. You got the top tier of Jokic/Giannis/Shai/Luka etc (Wemby will join them next year but his team sucks) then the next tier of Tatum etc and Booker, if he's in that next tier, is going to be at/near the bottom of it.

But I agree the hero ball stuff is just awful to watch.

Read on Twitter

If/when the Suns lose in the first or second round next month, I would strongly reach out to Houston and ask them for this same offer + Whitmore for KD.

They won't give all that up for KD lol. But I'd settle trading KD for less lol. This team is going nowhere.

Maybe not! I'd definitely love to get Green (Jalen not Jeff) back.......lol. But Whitmore isn't a deal breaker for me either. I'd honestly have more interest in Eason and Amen Thompson and the picks being the biggest thing for me really.

But Houston isn't really where I'd send KD anyways as my top 2 preferences for him in a trade would be:

1- New York.
2- OKC.
Due to players and assets that we could get back in a deal for him. I do think that Nurkic (even though I'm fond of him for his physicality and effort) to Houston so they could move Sengun to the 4. And have a more dominant frontcourt. Or maybe Nurkic to Brooklyn in exchange for some young prospects and a pick/ 2nds?

[sunsbum]

Book has failed to adjust his game unfortunately and that might be the chink in his armor. Just because he’s playing point doesn’t mean he’s doing it right. As many have said the KD/Book duo seems to be you take yours I’ll take mine and we’ll watch each other from afar. They don’t really seem to be in tune with each other and no one is willing to make sacrifices. Mikal added so much dynamic to our half court offense that I didn’t think we would miss as much as we have. He created so many opportunities for himself and others just by moving without the ball. No one does that on this team, even cam did it a little. I don’t know if we can trade KD but I wish we would. For all the hate jones gets, he was not giving up bridges in the trade. Ishbia came in and forced it. Unfortunately for us we made one move too many. Imagine this same team minus the Durant trade.

[Slim Charless]

Booker doesn't have the ability to run the game intelligently. Often throws a stupid heroball triple attempt and the flow disappears from the whole team. He is not a leading player on a contender team. You can't talk about him in the same sentence as Kobe, CP3 or Luka. Rich man's Monte Ellis is the best metaphor as someone here very well mentioned yesterday.
There was a reason why CP3 came to the Suns. He saw that the orchestra was talented enough to go all the way, but the conductor was missing. In the end, Saric's injury watered down the championship.
The 2031 season is just around the corner. It's a bit of a wait to get there, but a true fan can handle it. Hopefully without Booker.

hes not monta ellis...dont have to exaggerate to get the point across. He's just not a main guy. You got the top tier of Jokic/Giannis/Shai/Luka etc (Wemby will join them next year but his team sucks) then the next tier of Tatum etc and Booker, if he's in that next tier, is going to be at/near the bottom of it.

But I agree the hero ball stuff is just awful to watch.

They won't give all that up for KD lol. But I'd settle trading KD for less lol. This team is going nowhere.

Maybe not! I'd definitely love to get Green (Jalen not Jeff) back.......lol. But Whitmore isn't a deal breaker for me either. I'd honestly have more interest in Eason and Amen Thompson and the picks being the biggest thing for me really.

But Houston isn't really where I'd send KD anyways as my top 2 preferences for him in a trade would be:

1- New York.
2- OKC.
Due to players and assets that we could get back in a deal for him. I do think that Nurkic (even though I'm fond of him for his physicality and effort) to Houston so they could move Sengun to the 4. And have a more dominant frontcourt. Or maybe Nurkic to Brooklyn in exchange for some young prospects and a pick/ 2nds?

Why NYC over OKC? The Thunder have more picks, better picks, and more young players to send as well. They are the prefect team to trade with. Knicks make some sense but I'm not sure KD wants to go back to a new york based team

[Ghost of Kleine]

hes not monta ellis...dont have to exaggerate to get the point across. He's just not a main guy. You got the top tier of Jokic/Giannis/Shai/Luka etc (Wemby will join them next year but his team sucks) then the next tier of Tatum etc and Booker, if he's in that next tier, is going to be at/near the bottom of it.

But I agree the hero ball stuff is just awful to watch.



They won't give all that up for KD lol. But I'd settle trading KD for less lol. This team is going nowhere.

Maybe not! I'd definitely love to get Green (Jalen not Jeff) back.......lol. But Whitmore isn't a deal breaker for me either. I'd honestly have more interest in Eason and Amen Thompson and the picks being the biggest thing for me really.

But Houston isn't really where I'd send KD anyways as my top 2 preferences for him in a trade would be:

1- New York.
2- OKC.
Due to players and assets that we could get back in a deal for him. I do think that Nurkic (even though I'm fond of him for his physicality and effort) to Houston so they could move Sengun to the 4. And have a more dominant frontcourt. Or maybe Nurkic to Brooklyn in exchange for some young prospects and a pick/ 2nds?

Why NYC over OKC? The Thunder have more picks, better picks, and more young players to send as well. They are the prefect team to trade with. Knicks make some sense but I'm not sure KD wants to go back to a new york based team

Mostly, I prioritized KD to New York over OKC as a favor to KD because of the reports of his family, etc pushing him to go there, and also because I wanted to get back Randle to give us a more physical frontcourt with Nurkic, and Bojan as a 20 million expiring to rduce our luxury cap tax and the Detroit and/or Washington pick as part of what we'd get back in the deal. And IF Randle balls out in Phoenix, then perhaps we could flip him elsewhere for more assets? But initially, post trade, it'd give us a somewhat strong starting lineup of Beal/Book/Allen/Randle/Nurkic. Although I'm of the same mind as you on OKC being equally good AND having legit interest in KD as the missing piece to put them over the top, And Presti selling a really good storyline of the "prodigal son" whom they drafted returning back home to finish his career where it began, and helping OKC to their first ever championship! (Ironically before us)!

And I had us in my premise (previous posts) getting back something around (for KD at 51 million around the deadline) Dort/Giddey/Dieng/Joe or Wiggins/ 25 Miami 1st (1-14 protected)/ 27 Denver 1st ( 1-5 protected)/ 2028 DAL 1st/ 25 2nd/ 26' GS 2nd.

[AtheJ415]

I'm out until playoffs. Hopefully we decide to give a **** at that point. Vogel should've been fired a long time ago.

This team of balless, immature prima donnas does not deserve the fans that it has. It has accomplished absolutely 0 as a unit and plays like it is the reigning champs that just need to make the playoffs and can then turn it on. The KD trade was one of the worst moves possible.

We have, under James Jones:

1. Passed on Luka for Ayton (he was assistant GM but still), but Ayton at least has shown to be one of the best centers in the league when engaged, and he has been killing it in Portland the last month.
2. Passed on Haliburton for Jalen Smith, a move that was inexcusable at the time and is moreso now. Just complete idiocy. Would have been good to maybe get at least Vassell.
3. Traded assets to dump Josh Jackson for no reason costing us potentially Bane.
4. Traded assets to repeatedly get Torrey Craig
5. Tampered to get Drew Eubanks who is an okay player but a bad fit for us and the man crush our head coach has on him has him killing us instead of playing Bol Bol, who is clearly impactful when he is on the court.
6. Traded everything for KD when all you had to do was beat the next best offer. Everybody said don't judge it year 1 despite KD being 60 years old but here we are in year 2 and we are WORSE. Keep Mikal and this team is different, and that offer was good enough to get KD without Mikal even if you had to wait a season for the Nets GM to see no better offers were coming.
7. Hired Vogel.

He may be worse than his predecessor.

Regardless, the players are beyond well paid and beyondwell supported by a fan base that deserves much better than their lazy, entitled play on the court while they make excuse after excuse ater excuse. This team is top 3 in talent, regardless of team makeup. They just can't be bothered to focus enough to cut down on the lazy passes, to hustle on defense or really to do anything that isn't fun. Bunch of soft pansies dying for any semblence of leadership.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I'm out until playoffs. Hopefully we decide to give a **** at that point. Vogel should've been fired a long time ago.

This team of balless, immature prima donnas does not deserve the fans that it has. It has accomplished absolutely 0 as a unit and plays like it is the reigning champs that just need to make the playoffs and can then turn it on. The KD trade was one of the worst moves possible.

We have, under James Jones:

1. Passed on Luka for Ayton (he was assistant GM but still), but Ayton at least has shown to be one of the best centers in the league when engaged, and he has been killing it in Portland the last month.
2. Passed on Haliburton for Jalen Smith, a move that was inexcusable at the time and is moreso now. Just complete idiocy. Would have been good to maybe get at least Vassell.
3. Traded assets to dump Josh Jackson for no reason costing us potentially Bane.
4. Traded assets to repeatedly get Torrey Craig
5. Tampered to get Drew Eubanks who is an okay player but a bad fit for us and the man crush our head coach has on him has him killing us instead of playing Bol Bol, who is clearly impactful when he is on the court.
6. Traded everything for KD when all you had to do was beat the next best offer. Everybody said don't judge it year 1 despite KD being 60 years old but here we are in year 2 and we are WORSE. Keep Mikal and this team is different, and that offer was good enough to get KD without Mikal even if you had to wait a season for the Nets GM to see no better offers were coming.
7. Hired Vogel.

He may be worse than his predecessor.

Regardless, the players are beyond well paid and beyondwell supported by a fan base that deserves much better than their lazy, entitled play on the court while they make excuse after excuse ater excuse. This team is top 3 in talent, regardless of team makeup. They just can't be bothered to focus enough to cut down on the lazy passes, to hustle on defense or really to do anything that isn't fun. Bunch of soft pansies dying for any semblence of leadership.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Life as a Suns fan!!!!

Half the time spent running around in confused panic!


And the other half....................................drowning in the misery and disappointment of the annual epic collapse that epitomizes our team every year!

[lilfishi22]

No mention of the Finals appearance nor a franchise record 64 win season. Better GM's have done far less with far more time

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

[KdoubleDees23]

Even at 50% effort , Ayton & the suns dominated the league ! Didn’t have to squeeze into playoffs , and won a WCF!!

But but but we got Nurkic

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

[Stix]

Beal is just not a winner. All those years in Washington.

[Slim Charless]

Maybe not! I'd definitely love to get Green (Jalen not Jeff) back.......lol. But Whitmore isn't a deal breaker for me either. I'd honestly have more interest in Eason and Amen Thompson and the picks being the biggest thing for me really.

But Houston isn't really where I'd send KD anyways as my top 2 preferences for him in a trade would be:

1- New York.
2- OKC.
Due to players and assets that we could get back in a deal for him. I do think that Nurkic (even though I'm fond of him for his physicality and effort) to Houston so they could move Sengun to the 4. And have a more dominant frontcourt. Or maybe Nurkic to Brooklyn in exchange for some young prospects and a pick/ 2nds?

Why NYC over OKC? The Thunder have more picks, better picks, and more young players to send as well. They are the prefect team to trade with. Knicks make some sense but I'm not sure KD wants to go back to a new york based team

Mostly, I prioritized KD to New York over OKC as a favor to KD because of the reports of his family, etc pushing him to go there, and also because I wanted to get back Randle to give us a more physical frontcourt with Nurkic, and Bojan as a 20 million expiring to rduce our luxury cap tax and the Detroit and/or Washington pick as part of what we'd get back in the deal. And IF Randle balls out in Phoenix, then perhaps we could flip him elsewhere for more assets? But initially, post trade, it'd give us a somewhat strong starting lineup of Beal/Book/Allen/Randle/Nurkic. Although I'm of the same mind as you on OKC being equally good AND having legit interest in KD as the missing piece to put them over the top, And Presti selling a really good storyline of the "prodigal son" whom they drafted returning back home to finish his career where it began, and helping OKC to their first ever championship! (Ironically before us)!

And I had us in my premise (previous posts) getting back something around (for KD at 51 million around the deadline) Dort/Giddey/Dieng/Joe or Wiggins/ 25 Miami 1st (1-14 protected)/ 27 Denver 1st ( 1-5 protected)/ 2028 DAL 1st/ 25 2nd/ 26' GS 2nd.

See, for me the Nurk thing is 1 of the reasons I like OKC. He's been awesome this yr-WAY better then I've ever thought he could be. In fact this is the 2nd most games he's played in his entire career. With a chance to break his own personal record if he doesn't miss any more this season.


In other words, it's a complete freak occurrence that we've gotten healthy Nurk this yr. We need to capitalize on that and trade him this summer. His value will probably never be this high again for the rest of his career.

The Thunder need a big like him and by adding him into the KD trade, we can likely squeeze another asset or 2 out of them. Also saves us a ton of money and means that we can pick players again on the buy out market.

Something like:

Giddey
Dort
Dieng
Jaylin Williams (the C one)
4 firsts
6 seconds

Is not out of the picture imo.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Why NYC over OKC? The Thunder have more picks, better picks, and more young players to send as well. They are the prefect team to trade with. Knicks make some sense but I'm not sure KD wants to go back to a new york based team

Mostly, I prioritized KD to New York over OKC as a favor to KD because of the reports of his family, etc pushing him to go there, and also because I wanted to get back Randle to give us a more physical frontcourt with Nurkic, and Bojan as a 20 million expiring to rduce our luxury cap tax and the Detroit and/or Washington pick as part of what we'd get back in the deal. And IF Randle balls out in Phoenix, then perhaps we could flip him elsewhere for more assets? But initially, post trade, it'd give us a somewhat strong starting lineup of Beal/Book/Allen/Randle/Nurkic. Although I'm of the same mind as you on OKC being equally good AND having legit interest in KD as the missing piece to put them over the top, And Presti selling a really good storyline of the "prodigal son" whom they drafted returning back home to finish his career where it began, and helping OKC to their first ever championship! (Ironically before us)!

And I had us in my premise (previous posts) getting back something around (for KD at 51 million around the deadline) Dort/Giddey/Dieng/Joe or Wiggins/ 25 Miami 1st (1-14 protected)/ 27 Denver 1st ( 1-5 protected)/ 2028 DAL 1st/ 25 2nd/ 26' GS 2nd.

See, for me the Nurk thing is 1 of the reasons I like OKC. He's been awesome this yr-WAY better then I've ever thought he could be. In fact this is the 2nd most games he's played in his entire career. With a chance to break his own personal record if he doesn't miss any more this season.


In other words, it's a complete freak occurrence that we've gotten healthy Nurk this yr. We need to capitalize on that and trade him this summer. His value will probably never be this high again for the rest of his career.

The Thunder need a big like him and by adding him into the KD trade, we can likely squeeze another asset or 2 out of them. Also saves us a ton of money and means that we can pick players again on the buy out market.

You do make a good point (as always) man! And IF we blow it up and Book theoretically asks out if we trade KD, then sending KD to OKC for young talents and assets, and then trading Book to New York (considering his Leon Rose connection) and Books' interest in still contending too and his interest in a big market to elevate his image, etc seem to make New York the mecca of basketball a good fit and allow us to really double up on asset return and reducing our cap line! Just imagine all of the young talent and massive haul of draft assets we could pull cumulatively from those tams. And the icing on the cake is that then Beal would probably be willing to waive his "No trade clause" too rather than enter another rebuild?

[bwgood77]

Beal is just not a winner. All those years in Washington.

He made the playoffs 5x in Washington, 3x as the best player and one with horrible teammates. But when he had crap teammates after Wall declined/got injured, they traded Porter, etc, he was basically it. Similar to our team without Paul.

I mean, you can say the same thing about Book in his first 5 years or whatever..we were awful. It wasn't until we got Paul to lead our team that we got good.

He's played well overall...shooting better than Book from 2, 3, efg%, etc.

You really hate this guy. Unhealthy.