2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - the calm before the storm

[Slim Charless]

I'm not worried about moving Beal. He'll be a Phoenix Wizard if we blow it up.



It's insane to think Durant doesn't have value. He's missed a total of 7 games this season. #4 in the league in PPG with 53/42/85 splits, 28/7/5 with 2 stocks and still a + on defense.

Sure, our all-in move didn't work, but every year there are teams that will do anything to try to win a title. There are far worse ways to spend $100 million than on Kevin Durant - for example, paying Grayson Allen $20 million/season and drowning yourself in luxury taxes.

Of course he has value but very few GM's will give us the kind of deal Ishbia gave the Nets in return.

Father time is undefeated and KD at some point will just drop off a cliff at any point now and really struggle to create his own shot once the lift on his shot goes.

I still see him being able to score close to 20 PPG just on spot up jump shots towards the end of his contract but he won't be putting up LBJ type of numbers I would imagine.

I don't get the fascination with the trade package that we gave up for KD.

Mikal and Cam Johnson are doing nothing for the Nets.

Mikal is a 2nd option for them and his overall numbers aren't impressive at all. His percentages are strictly bad and defensively he can't be as good as he was for us because he has a bigger role on offense.

Cam Johnson is seriously overpaid and most Nets fans hate him. He isn't better than Grayson Allen so we replaced him with an upgrade. Similar age, similar role and he has more health problems than Allen.

Crowder has been replaced by O'Neale so we got another upgrade for really low value in the last trade deadline.

It's all about the picks but the idea for us is to be a perennial playoff team (and hopefully a contender) for years to come so those picks will never be in the lottery.

KD is playing amazing basketball on both ends and he is healthy. His value around the league has to be really REALLY high.

Thank you! Someone besides me sees them for what they've been in Brooklyn.

Mediocre.

CamJo can't stay healthy and is wildly overpaid for what he does.

Mikal has been more or less what he was here and it looks like that hot streak he had last year to end the season was just that. A hot streak. The Nets are absolutely foolish for not moving him for Jalen Green plus their picks back which is what numerous ppl reported was the offer back in the trade deadline. BRK's non-trade of Mikal might prove to be as dumb as our ridiculous overpay trade involving Mikal lol.

That's what makes me even madder. Sean Marks is a twit and JJ let himself get played by him.

Unbelievable.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I think the hardline ( Or softline deadline depending upon your perspective)?? on this whole superteam scheme basically comes down to the trade deadline next season, in that If you wait longer than that, you risk serious perceived value depreciation with Durant being even closer to 37 (36 yrs old in September) and/or the attached age related concerns being increased among the public's overall perspective/around the league too. Now I understand that KD has been awesome and his game is so smooth, and isn't really predicated upon athleticism or physical ability. However, It's fairly clear that we've been incredibly lucky with Durants' overall durability this season, and as he continues aging, and has to continue carrying an overtly heavy load/ playing heavy minutes (due to our lack of tangible depth), and obviously that factor isn't likely to diminish next season either.

So given the overall extent of what we've invested/ given up to create this superteam, we owe it to ourselves to at least try and get the most value (return) out of this very costly investment before we pull the plug! So two seasons or arounfd that should give us an accurate and more than reasonable perspective on our optimal outcome trajectory with this team. And making this call around the deadline would allow us to pivot, and be able to somewhat recoup some of the value lost while realigning our strategy with something that is more sustainable, effective, and fun to watch and be a part of. And hopefully we can utilize the right avenues that'll allow us to secure roster upgrades accordingly heading into next season?

[sunskerr]

Of course he has value but very few GM's will give us the kind of deal Ishbia gave the Nets in return.

Father time is undefeated and KD at some point will just drop off a cliff at any point now and really struggle to create his own shot once the lift on his shot goes.

I still see him being able to score close to 20 PPG just on spot up jump shots towards the end of his contract but he won't be putting up LBJ type of numbers I would imagine.

I don't get the fascination with the trade package that we gave up for KD.

Mikal and Cam Johnson are doing nothing for the Nets.

Mikal is a 2nd option for them and his overall numbers aren't impressive at all. His percentages are strictly bad and defensively he can't be as good as he was for us because he has a bigger role on offense.

Cam Johnson is seriously overpaid and most Nets fans hate him. He isn't better than Grayson Allen so we replaced him with an upgrade. Similar age, similar role and he has more health problems than Allen.

Crowder has been replaced by O'Neale so we got another upgrade for really low value in the last trade deadline.

It's all about the picks but the idea for us is to be a perennial playoff team (and hopefully a contender) for years to come so those picks will never be in the lottery.

KD is playing amazing basketball on both ends and he is healthy. His value around the league has to be really REALLY high.

Thank you! Someone besides me sees them for what they've been in Brooklyn.

Mediocre.

CamJo can't stay healthy and is wildly overpaid for what he does.

Mikal has been more or less what he was here and it looks like that hot streak he had last year to end the season was just that. A hot streak. The Nets are absolutely foolish for not moving him for Jalen Green plus their picks back which is what numerous ppl reported was the offer back in the trade deadline. BRK's non-trade of Mikal might prove to be as dumb as our ridiculous overpay trade involving Mikal lol.

That's what makes me even madder. Sean Marks is a twit and JJ let himself get played by him.

Unbelievable.

100%

People here use us losing the KD trade to sneak in Mikal and Cam apologia as if they were going to be key pieces in a championship for us...

They are not that good lol. That doesn't justify giving up our whole future for KD, but that team was going nowhere.

It's kind of like we were a middling team going nowhere, and the trade made our situation worse by giving away our picks for zero net improvement.

We got boned by a low tier GM because our owner/GM are also low tier.

Anyway, this whole situation of not winning a championship, trading for an aging CP3, ailing Beal, and old KD is literally the rebound effect of not drafting Doncic or Haliburton. It's an echo of history, constantly trying to find the player to pair next to Booker.

We had the role players drafted around Booker but we didn't have the star and as a result we had to give up the young role players to get the star. 5 holes in a sinking ship while you only have 4 limbs to stop the water.

I can't say for sure that a real opportunity would have come along for us to get a star without giving up all our assets, but we'd be in a much safer position if we still had all our picks and young role players (though moving on from specifically Ayton was probably a necessity). Fairly sure we'd be about the same win %, maybe less, but even so there's no functional difference between losing 1st round/losing play in (which is going to happen) and not making the playoffs.

[bwgood77]

Mikal still so underrated as a 3rd option, high iq, chemistry, glue guy, teammate. He's just not a #1 or #2 option and he obviously needs to play with a PG as do most players. Of course there is a reason teams wanted and want him so bad. Green has blossomed into more than I think anyone expected after the way he started his career, but Udoka is for real and gets a lot out of him. I imagine Mikal would be doing very well in Houston with FVV, Sengun, Jabari Smith Jr, etc...or if Memphis got him and was healthy with a lineup of Ja, Bane, Bridges, JJJ and Adams (who I know they traded to Houston). That would have been a dynamic, hard nosed, defensive but great 3 pt shooting team.

[bwgood77]

Ingram is out, that changes everything for them.

We have two games against them. And looking their schedule for the next few games they play against Thunder, Bucks and Celtics.

I didn't know that he was out, but they just beat Miami 111-88 on the road without him. You may underestimate how good Trey Murphy and Larry Nance Jr are. They also have Zion and CJ McCollum who can step up the scoring.

Ingram isn't having his best season. He is actually pretty far down on their list of efficient scorers.

TS%
Nance 67%
Herbert Jones 65%
JV 63%
Zion 62%
Trey Murphy 61%
McCollum 59%
Ingram 58%

3pt%
Herbert Jones 43%
Nance 42%
McCollum 41.5%
Murphy 38%
Zion 35.7%
Ingram 35.6%
JV 34.3%

Naji Marshall is playing pretty well too.

You already know how percentages work...teams usually put their attention on All-Star players like Ingram and role players get easier and wide open shots so their percentages are very good...but without that big time player everyone has worse percentages and has a tough time creating shots.

They are gonna miss Ingram for sure. And yeah, they won yesterday to the Heat but they aren't as good as the Celtics, Bucks, Thunder or a healthy Suns. I expect them to struggle in the next couple of weeks.

They don't appear to be struggling THAT much. They did lose to the Thunder, but they played them quite a bit closer than we did. Then they beat the Bucks. They are looking pretty good today despite the Celtics having by far the best record.

[Saberestar]

I didn't know that he was out, but they just beat Miami 111-88 on the road without him. You may underestimate how good Trey Murphy and Larry Nance Jr are. They also have Zion and CJ McCollum who can step up the scoring.

Ingram isn't having his best season. He is actually pretty far down on their list of efficient scorers.

TS%
Nance 67%
Herbert Jones 65%
JV 63%
Zion 62%
Trey Murphy 61%
McCollum 59%
Ingram 58%

3pt%
Herbert Jones 43%
Nance 42%
McCollum 41.5%
Murphy 38%
Zion 35.7%
Ingram 35.6%
JV 34.3%

Naji Marshall is playing pretty well too.

You already know how percentages work...teams usually put their attention on All-Star players like Ingram and role players get easier and wide open shots so their percentages are very good...but without that big time player everyone has worse percentages and has a tough time creating shots.

They are gonna miss Ingram for sure. And yeah, they won yesterday to the Heat but they aren't as good as the Celtics, Bucks, Thunder or a healthy Suns. I expect them to struggle in the next couple of weeks.

They don't appear to be struggling THAT much. They did lose to the Thunder, but they played them quite a bit closer than we did. Then they beat the Bucks. They are looking pretty good today despite the Celtics having by far the best record.

Well, if they lose today against the Celtics (close game at halftime) we will have our opportunity to get them because we have two games against them. It would be on our hands, but we are inconsistent so who knows.

Let's see if the Celtics do their part today.

[bwgood77]

You already know how percentages work...teams usually put their attention on All-Star players like Ingram and role players get easier and wide open shots so their percentages are very good...but without that big time player everyone has worse percentages and has a tough time creating shots.

They are gonna miss Ingram for sure. And yeah, they won yesterday to the Heat but they aren't as good as the Celtics, Bucks, Thunder or a healthy Suns. I expect them to struggle in the next couple of weeks.

They don't appear to be struggling THAT much. They did lose to the Thunder, but they played them quite a bit closer than we did. Then they beat the Bucks. They are looking pretty good today despite the Celtics having by far the best record.

Well, if they lose today against the Celtics (close game at halftime) we will have our opportunity to get them because we have two games against them. It would be on our hands, but we are inconsistent so who knows.

Let's see if the Celtics do their part today.

And we'd have to do as well in our other games as they do. They still have the Blazers and Spurs on their schedule.

[Saberestar]

They don't appear to be struggling THAT much. They did lose to the Thunder, but they played them quite a bit closer than we did. Then they beat the Bucks. They are looking pretty good today despite the Celtics having by far the best record.

Well, if they lose today against the Celtics (close game at halftime) we will have our opportunity to get them because we have two games against them. It would be on our hands, but we are inconsistent so who knows.

Let's see if the Celtics do their part today.

And we'd have to do as well in our other games as they do. They still have the Blazers and Spurs on their schedule.

Pelicans lost the game against the Celtics, so we are just 2 games away from the Pels.

Another interesting note...Malik Monk out for the next 4-6 weeks and Huerter out for the season. Sad news for the Kings but make our possibilities for the playoffs a bit better now.

[Hitachi77]

Yeah last chance to get the 6 seed, gotta beat the Pels next game (and more of course). Mavs can have the 5. Have fun with the Clippers. They are struggling now but don’t think that will last.

[garrick]

Mikal still so underrated as a 3rd option, high iq, chemistry, glue guy, teammate. He's just not a #1 or #2 option and he obviously needs to play with a PG as do most players. Of course there is a reason teams wanted and want him so bad. Green has blossomed into more than I think anyone expected after the way he started his career, but Udoka is for real and gets a lot out of him. I imagine Mikal would be doing very well in Houston with FVV, Sengun, Jabari Smith Jr, etc...or if Memphis got him and was healthy with a lineup of Ja, Bane, Bridges, JJJ and Adams (who I know they traded to Houston). That would have been a dynamic, hard nosed, defensive but great 3 pt shooting team.

Yeah and also a big part of his value is he has avoided any sort of injury which is amazing and you know he can be counted on for almost all your games which is huge for a winning team.

We already seen how much injuries to key players like Booker and Beal just affect your winning or lack thereof. Replace Beal with Mikail and we would be top 3 for sure instead of worrying about not even making the playoffs.

[sunsbg]

Kings are done with four rotational players out. Monk was particularly important for them. One of the toughest schedules too. Suns chance to avoid the play-in or stay top8 increased.

[SunsRback4Good]

Kings are done with four rotational players out. Monk was particularly important for them. One of the toughest schedules too. Suns chance to avoid the play-in or stay top8 increased.

Hello

[Saberestar]

The Suns had scheduled a day off yesterday but they canceled it and went to work, that was nice to know it. One step in the right direction.

[bwgood77]

Kings are done with four rotational players out. Monk was particularly important for them. One of the toughest schedules too. Suns chance to avoid the play-in or stay top8 increased.

Who is out besides Monk and Huerter? Monk has been great at times, but only has a 52.6% efg. They really will go as far as Fox, Sabonis, Murray and Barnes take them. Unless one of those guys is one of the others out.

[sunsbg]

Kings are done with four rotational players out. Monk was particularly important for them. One of the toughest schedules too. Suns chance to avoid the play-in or stay top8 increased.

Who is out besides Monk and Huerter? Monk has been great at times, but only has a 52.6% efg. They really will go as far as Fox, Sabonis, Murray and Barnes take them. Unless one of those guys is one of the others out.

Losing 6MOTY candidate in Monk is very important. He's not only scorer but was running their second unit with a lot of big assist games and finished games. Huerter was a starter. Lyles(PF) and Vezenkov(PF/SF) were key for them off the bench and being out made them thin in this position. Not sure when last two return, but right now they are literally without a bench. Kings strength was depth and right now they don't have much there.

[bwgood77]

Kings are done with four rotational players out. Monk was particularly important for them. One of the toughest schedules too. Suns chance to avoid the play-in or stay top8 increased.

Who is out besides Monk and Huerter? Monk has been great at times, but only has a 52.6% efg. They really will go as far as Fox, Sabonis, Murray and Barnes take them. Unless one of those guys is one of the others out.

Losing 6MOTY candidate in Monk is very important. He's not only scorer but was running their second unit with a lot of big assist games and finished games. Huerter was a starter. Lyles(PF) and Vezenkov(PF/SF) were key for them off the bench. Not sure when last two return, but right now they are literally without a bench. Kings strength was depth and right now they don't have much there.

Yeah, I guess it would be like us losing Eric Gordon.

[sunsbg]

Who is out besides Monk and Huerter? Monk has been great at times, but only has a 52.6% efg. They really will go as far as Fox, Sabonis, Murray and Barnes take them. Unless one of those guys is one of the others out.

Losing 6MOTY candidate in Monk is very important. He's not only scorer but was running their second unit with a lot of big assist games and finished games. Huerter was a starter. Lyles(PF) and Vezenkov(PF/SF) were key for them off the bench. Not sure when last two return, but right now they are literally without a bench. Kings strength was depth and right now they don't have much there.

Yeah, I guess it would be like us losing Eric Gordon.

Eric Gordon is far from a 6MOTY candidate. Barnes is a weak link so losing two PF's is important too. Huerter is a starter. Suns were at full strength last game so can't complain too much.

Edit:Just checked and Monk is favorite to win the award. He's Kings' soul at some form. Kings fans love him. Eric Gordon is just someone who can get hot shooting in 1 of 3 games and doesn't offer much else.

[Qwigglez]

I don't post much in this thread, mostly because I don't feel like the Suns can make any decent move to improve the roster. However, with the talk of Paul George possibly going to the Sixers makes me wonder if the Suns could make a move.

I'm wondering if the Clippers would prefer having Bradley Beal over James Harden if they lost Paul George. I think Westbrook would probably want to start, and him and Harden might not be the most ideal fit. Beal and Westbrook played well together in Washington, and I think this type of move would balance both teams. Clippers would have Westbrook, Harden, Kawhi. Suns would have Harden, Booker, Durant.

I know it's far-fetched, but these stars the last few years have been quite demanding on where they end up, so I could see something like this occurring.

[Son of Ra]

I don't post much in this thread, mostly because I don't feel like the Suns can make any decent move to improve the roster. However, with the talk of Paul George possibly going to the Sixers makes me wonder if the Suns could make a move.

I'm wondering if the Clippers would prefer having Bradley Beal over James Harden if they lost Paul George. I think Westbrook would probably want to start, and him and Harden might not be the most ideal fit. Beal and Westbrook played well together in Washington, and I think this type of move would balance both teams. Clippers would have Westbrook, Harden, Kawhi. Suns would have Harden, Booker, Durant.

I know it's far-fetched, but these stars the last few years have been quite demanding on where they end up, so I could see something like this occurring.

Please delete this

[Son of Ra]

Grayson's been critical to this team. Hard to see us staying afloat if we let him go. I guess we need O'Neale too. But... are we really going to pay the biggest bill in the history of the league (I reckon, haven't done the math) for a play-in team?

We'll sign these guys, even if to trade them later to recoup assets. This 2nd apron spending is only a 2-3 year thing before ownership/GM decides it's just not happening

Contracts at FMV usually aren't very valuable. If Grayson declines to the mean, we may end up having to surrender a pick or two if we want to avoid the tax.

I continue to vote TEAR DOWN & REBUILD. Invest the money we would have spent on the luxury tax on quality scouts (or an app that allows fans to vote for our draft pick). Drowning ourselves in sunk cost will only set us up for a bloodbath at the 2025 trade deadline.

Booker to BKN and KD to NYK is OK with me.

Basically exactly what I said in another thread, fully onboard team rebuild.
Burn it down an let Phoenix rise from the ashes (so witty I know right!?)