Let’s talk about Vogel

[Fifii]

We have a little break so I decide to create this topic and pool.

We had a lot of ups and downs. Beal wasn’t healthy , our bench sucks, but now we go to straight.

We have two new players who reinforce our bench , Beal after operations could back soon and KD playing like the best player in this league.

It is a suitable moment to ask : Can we get far in this post season with Vogel ?

Vogel have a lot of disadvantages : too much iso plays by KD , bad rotations , bad decisions but maybe he is in new team , a lot of players doesn’t know each others because they don’t play couple seasons together so maybe that is naturally that he learn this team and players learn him.

In my opinion sometimes we playing very well like true contender but sometimes not.

We don’t have no other choice like stay with him. Can we trust the Vogel ?

by this I mean he doesn’t make any mistakes ( like put Beal to guard Stephen ) and our tactics be better than iso KD / Devin and shots from three form everywhere.

I want that Vogel surprised any idea or lineup ( but not negative ) , but really I don’t know what I can except from him.

[SkyBill40]

I cast the first vote and it's still a firm no. He hasn't shown anything remotely close to deserving of his defensive reputation. While I get that the players need to make stops and do the work on the court, he still hasn't shown enough to make his hiring worth the hype.

And don't even get me started on that bum Kevin Young. Talk about untrustworthy and overpaid.

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[bwgood77]

Can we get far with Vogel? It really comes down to talent. Coaches only make so much of a difference. He has coached a team to the title in LA...and they may not have had as much talent....or maybe...LeBron/AD or KD/Book? Who had better supporting players?

[Stix]

He's been getting a little better but not by much. He was brought in to bring a good defensive scheme and we are one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

He's never really actually coached a team to a legit championship. I do not count the bubble 'ship. sorry.)

And i hate to bring it up, but he's a dumbass for not putting in Okogie for Beal when we only needed 3 secs of lockdown defense... among other mistakes and general crappy line-ups he has put out there.

I don't put the blame on him entirely though, I won't mention his name but they call him Mr. Glass.

[kennydorglas]

HELL NO

[Calvin Klein]

The real question is… do you prefer him over Monty? I don’t think one is much better than the other. They fit certain situations and others not so much, like most coaches.

[SunsRback4Good]

I trust Vogel with my life I can’t think of any other coach to lead us to the promise land. Trust the process!!!

[AtheJ415]

He sucks. He is passable now because his roster is loaded. He is Montyesque, meaning if we win, it will be in spite of him. Put him on the Pistons and he is the worst team in league history.

[Bogyo]

He is a bit better than Monty. Where that puts him - I'm not entirely sure.
Some of his glaring mistakes do make me wonder wtf is going on, but then again he did win a chip, and prior to that overachieved with some of his earlier teams... I'm leaning towards no, but I could be convinced otherwise if/when we see get different results.

[garrick]

I don't really think he's a championship level coach and his rotations are highly questionable.

The overall talent on this team should be enough to win a championship despite Vogel but nothing I've seen from him inspires much confidence. He's no Tyrone Lue.

[sashaturiaf]

I feel Vogels been a scapegoat for our up and down start to the season so far, I think we can acknowledge he's no miracle worker but he's competent enough a coach to win us a title IF the conditions are right.

Pros - elite at using challenges, willing to give every player on the roster a chance 1 through 15, done well to shore up a passable defense despite having very little in the way of defensive personnel

Cons - still no set rotation 2/3 the way through a season, offensive system seems to be just throw the ball out there and let the big 3 figure it out, probably took too long before unleashing the KD at the 5 lineup that turned around our season vs the Kings.

All in all, I think if our team's health persists we will finish the season off strong, this is a flawed roster with key players thats been in and out of the lineup all season, none of that is Vogels fault.

[Calvin Klein]

Also, it's quite stupid to hire a defensive coach and give him absolutely NO defensive players!! I mean...is Okogie our only defensive specialist? and he is an 8th man at best.

[kennydorglas]

nah its quite stupid to hire a defensive coach when nobody in NBA plays defense anymore.
its glorified all-star style schemes all year long

[lilfishi22]

I think he's been......ok. People remember the bad games where he made poor mistakes but also forget all the different line ups he's experimented with while seemingly not playing favourites with any one player and also a lot of in game adjustments which either don't get noticed or just gets glossed over.

As sashaturiaf mentioned, he's not a miracle worker and I feel like some expects him to be. But frankly, there weren't glaringly better options either at the time. While Nurse is doing a great job at Philly now but people are quick to forget he had a lot of his own coaching issues in Toronto which we were somewhat accustomed to under Monty like questionable play calling, very slow adjustments, bench struggles and just general inconsistency. I think the front office viewed Vogel as being something fresh while still being familiar (with Young).

Question now is do I trust him to take us to the promised land.....right now, no with the caveat that I don't feel I can trust any other available coaches either and that it's mostly on the back of our players.

I'm just glad with didn't go with Doc Rivers

[AtheJ415]

Also, it's quite stupid to hire a defensive coach and give him absolutely NO defensive players!! I mean...is Okogie our only defensive specialist? and he is an 8th man at best.

Fun fact -- in the overwhelming majority of seasons in Vogel's career, his defense has not improved as the season went along. He is an overrated defensive guru regardless of roster.

My expectation is that he focus on getting the team to play hard and cut down on mistakes. If we reign in the turnovers and 50/50 balls / rebounds, we can win just due to superior shooting, especially in the playoffs when the game slows down and you are forced to go one on one more often.

[Calvin Klein]

Also, it's quite stupid to hire a defensive coach and give him absolutely NO defensive players!! I mean...is Okogie our only defensive specialist? and he is an 8th man at best.

Fun fact -- in the overwhelming majority of seasons in Vogel's career, his defense has not improved as the season went along. He is an overrated defensive guru regardless of roster.

That's probably true. Still dumb to expect good defense with no defensive minded players.

[SunsRback4Good]

You’re all crazy it hasn’t even been 4 years since Vogel led the Lakers to a bubble championship. Great coaches lead great teams to a title and he’ll do the same in Phoenix.

Spoiler:

Cosigned, JDiddy & Saberestar.

[Saberestar]

Watch on YouTube

[SkyBill40]

You’re all crazy it hasn’t even been 4 years since Vogel led the Lakers to a bubble championship. Great coaches lead great teams to a title and he’ll do the same in Phoenix.

Spoiler:

Cosigned, JDiddy & Saberestar.

Meh. I've always felt that coaching is vastly overrated. The real responsibility is on the players who are making baskets and getting stops, not the coach.

That's not to completely undervalue their worth, however; it's just that the make up of the team on the floor is what really matters most. Vogel has a rep for being a defensive guy and we've not seen any of that from this unit. Is it because they can't defend? No. is it because they don't believe in Vogel's strategy? Probably not. Are they simply more interested in calling their own plays and trying to outscore their opponent instead? It sure seems like it.

Vogel might be a solid dude but is no better than Monty Williams in my eyes.

[Saberestar]

You’re all crazy it hasn’t even been 4 years since Vogel led the Lakers to a bubble championship. Great coaches lead great teams to a title and he’ll do the same in Phoenix.

Spoiler:

Cosigned, JDiddy & Saberestar.

Lol, this is true.

The Suns have been trying to win a championship for 55 years without a championship HC and obviously it didn't work...why not give it a try with someone who has already won it?

First HC with a chip in the history of the Suns. Give him at least a full season.