Game 66: Phoenix Suns (38-27) @Boston Celtics (51-14) | Thursday | 4:30PM

[Revived]

Boston is a smart team that traded for effective role players like Derrick White, Porzingis, Holliday, Horford etc. They didn’t blow their load to trade for “SuPeRsTaRs” and build an aging and injury prone big 3. They kept their young stars and build around it with dept and quality role players.

Matt Ishbia wouldn’t know jack**** about that.

[Revived]

Comments like this are why I very rarely ever post here anymore. This place sucks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, you rarely post on here along with others is because Matt Ishbia traded the whole team and now our new team is boring to watch with no chemistry. When we were fun to watch the game threads exceeded 15+ pages easily but this year averaging 3-5 pages max. Deep down you know this team ain’t doing nothing special this or next season. Our two year window with KD, Book, Beal will be gone and we’ll have nothing to look for for another decade of basketball.

Why are you putting words in his mouth?

I won’t speak for Jdiddy but based on posts like below, I don’t think many SunsrBack4Good is that off the mark

I'll admit up front that I didn't watch this game.

There are more and more of those these days. I think it's justified. The outcome is pretty obvious. The Suns used to be appointment viewing for my family, but haven't been for some time.

If it's the journey you're after, you're getting it, haha. I think all of us were sold some BS on this group from the time the KD trade was made. Then again, after the past 2 years' playoff experience, I think it was clear that team wasn't getting back to the 2021 level.

Clearly, barring catastrophic collapses by every other playoff team, this team is not only not good enough to measure up, they haven't meaningfully improved in the areas that would even give them a real chance.

I think a lot of fans have already resigned themselves to this that the Suns aren't good enough this season.

The scary part is this is probably as good as we will be given our lack of bench and the advancing age of KD plus our luxury tax situation we are probably going to have to go bargain hunting again even if we manage to resign Grayson and Royce.

The only glimmer of hope is if we draft a steal in the next draft and he turns out to be a Haliburton or Maxey type of player.

I may be wrong but I HIGHLY doubt it’s just these two posters feeling this same way also. There’s not much of a connection between fans and this group of randomly put together players. It would be one thing if it’s working out great on the court but it’s not as injuries and lack of defense have hammered this team since the start just like many predicted with a roster featuring this “big 3”.

[lilfishi22]

Boston is a smart team that traded for effective role players like Derrick White, Porzingis, Holliday, Horford etc. They didn’t blow their load to trade for “SuPeRsTaRs” and build an aging and injury prone big 3. They kept their young stars and build around it with dept and quality role players.

Matt Ishbia wouldn’t know jack**** about that.

If it's so easy why don't other teams do the same thing?

NBA trades/signings is all about right place and right time. I've said this before, sometimes you're in the right situation but the player you want isn't available. Sometimes the player is available but you're not in the right situation. The Warriors were in the right situation and the right player was available for them to get KD on a 73 win team coming off a Finals run.

Celtics are one of the most well run organisations since before even Tatum has been around. They consistently draft well, find and develop less talented players and make savvy trades. They are an institution that is the envy of most of the NBA. And the list of teams on par with them you could probably could on one hand. Off the top of my head, only Miami and more recently, OKC are of a similar tier.

We're not that, we arguably haven't been that in decades. Ishbia came in trying to make a change for the better after 2 decades of mismanagement, under-spending and pocketing NBA welfare. Maybe Ishbia's approach of going all out was not the right one but I won't ever question whether he's actually all in trying to help this team succeed or whether he sees it solely as a money making venture like Sarver did.

[garrick]

Boston is a smart team that traded for effective role players like Derrick White, Porzingis, Holliday, Horford etc. They didn’t blow their load to trade for “SuPeRsTaRs” and build an aging and injury prone big 3. They kept their young stars and build around it with dept and quality role players.

Matt Ishbia wouldn’t know jack**** about that.

Boston is the sample that Silver probably would want the rest of the league to emulate while Ishbia has created the exact opposite of that by throwing money at the roster somewhat foolishly. If Boston wins and I have them as the overall favorite to win it all I think this will please Silver and the small market NBA team owners to no end.

The sad thing is we had the assets had we been patient to tweak the roster whether you ship out one of our starting 5 or try to make some smart free agent signings or smart trades to get valuable role players to fill out the bench.

[Puff]

This team appears to be a vehicle designed with three front seats each having access to their own steering wheel, gas pedal and brake.

No one is in charge. No one gets in another players face for making mistakes. If one of the big three make a mistake, WELL that is ok, after all they are making max money and they are STARS.

We need a bus driver and Bouncer to help clean up what the refs will not clean up.

If one of our 3 stars was Steve Nash, we would have no problem.

Please do not let KD make any more passes. All he should do is shoot the freaking ball. Oh, that is where Nash comes in.

[Fifii]

Boston is really **** strong. They are played without Latvian and we were - 20 ( after this I shut down match ). KD in second half was terrible ( 1/9 FG for a while ) and our bench doesn’t scored many points. This two things are mainly reasons lose.

[Revived]

Boston is a smart team that traded for effective role players like Derrick White, Porzingis, Holliday, Horford etc. They didn’t blow their load to trade for “SuPeRsTaRs” and build an aging and injury prone big 3. They kept their young stars and build around it with dept and quality role players.

Matt Ishbia wouldn’t know jack**** about that.

If it's so easy why don't other teams do the same thing?

NBA trades/signings is all about right place and right time. I've said this before, sometimes you're in the right situation but the player you want isn't available. Sometimes the player is available but you're not in the right situation. The Warriors were in the right situation and the right player was available for them to get KD on a 73 win team coming off a Finals run.

Celtics are one of the most well run organisations since before even Tatum has been around. They consistently draft well, find and develop less talented players and make savvy trades. They are an institution that is the envy of most of the NBA. And the list of teams on par with them you could probably could on one hand. Off the top of my head, only Miami and more recently, OKC are of a similar tier.

We're not that, we arguably haven't been that in decades. Ishbia came in trying to make a change for the better after 2 decades of mismanagement, under-spending and pocketing NBA welfare. Maybe Ishbia's approach of going all out was not the right one but I won't ever question whether he's actually all in trying to help this team succeed or whether he sees it solely as a money making venture like Sarver did.

If it's so easy why don't other teams do the same thing?

The successful teams do? It’s about having the right vision and proper GM. Look at the Toronto Raptors. A team that was largely irrelevant till…they hired Masai Ujiri and he did something similar to what Ishbia did and trade for a star player in Kawhi while giving up a fan favorite…except Ujiri didn’t give up everything for that and still maintained capable role players to put together a championship season. Look at the Timberwolves who have been a laughing stock for as long as I can remember, they hire Tim Connelly and he makes smart big trades like getting Gobert but their team actually still has good role players around them too hence why their a top seed and trending in the right direction. You can do the same thing for OKC and go down the list.

You can say whatever you want about Sarver and he made bunch of stupid mistakes back in the day but the Suns had been trending in right direction since the bubble. You act as if Ishbia bought the worst team in the league or something and made a big trade to try to change that. No he bought a team that was already seen as a contender with cap flexibility and draft picks and trending in the right direction.

Sarver learned from his stupid mistakes hence why he made the ultimatum that either only the players or picks would be traded for KD, not both. And considering KD was disgruntled with the Nets, he could’ve easily told them he’s not going to play anymore if he isn’t traded and Nets would’ve been forced to trade him anyway and taken whatever we offered.

Imagine having those 1st rd picks and being able to make trades like the Lakers did last playoffs to make it to the WCFs or Mavericks did in acquiring guys like Washington and Gafford that have turned their season around. Gafford especially on an amazing contract and barely 24 or 25 years old.

To make meaningful changes in this league you need to have assets. And draft picks are the biggest asset for that. Look at the Denver Nuggets for example. They’re the reigning champions, and they basically have one “superstar” player and bunch of excellent role players around them. Ask any Denver fan or watch any Denver game and you’ll notice how big of a difference Aaron Gordon makes for them. And Nuggets acquired him using draft picks and expiring contracts.

This idea that you can put together a couple of very highly paid “star players” in their 30s with injury issues and form a big 3 and have bunch of crap around them and win is extremely outdated. Nets proved this couple years ago with their Deron Williams, kg, Pierce trade.

Investing a significant part of your cap space into 3 aging players and having very little cap space and trade assets remaining to put together good role players around them is just stupid and doesn’t lead to success.

[Revived]

Boston is really **** strong. They are played without Latvian and we were - 20 ( after this I shut down match ). KD in second half was terrible ( 1/9 FG for a while ) and our bench doesn’t scored many points. This two things are mainly reasons lose.

KD struggling against Boston is nothing new. Ask Nets fans.

[sashaturiaf]

We're not going to win a NBA game when the 3 point shooting disparity is that large, but 3 point shooting goes the way the wind goes in games that matter so I am not discouraged at all by this loss.

Positives I take out of the game

- Beal is starting to look more like himself and stamping his authority on the game, I think Vogel has also figured out that playing Beal alone with the 2nd unit is a winning formula in that it gets him going as well as helping our 2nd unit which has sucked all season.
- Bol Bol is now a solid rotation player, he's a positive on both ends, I trust him in the playoffs (if we even make it there)
- Nurk continues to be very very solid, he's too big and too smart a bball player for him not to make an impact on the game, he owned the paint again. Our backup 5 situation however......

[KLEON]

DEN and BOS if healthy are the only contenders really. Nothing new learned after this game.

Don't know why ppl are strong on BOS winning it all. They always choke deep in the playoffs especially Tatum and Brown. They sh*t the bed a couple years ago against GSW when everyone thought they would win it all and I guarantee they'll choke again as always

[dremill24]

DEN and BOS if healthy are the only contenders really. Nothing new learned after this game.

Don't know why ppl are strong on BOS winning it all. They always choke deep in the playoffs especially Tatum and Brown. They sh*t the bed a couple years ago against GSW when everyone thought they would win it all and I guarantee they'll choke again as always

They could very well choke but they have the most talented team in the league and have been running roughshot over the league. Not too unreasonable for people to think they're favorites.

[sunsbg]

DEN and BOS if healthy are the only contenders really. Nothing new learned after this game.

Don't know why ppl are strong on BOS winning it all. They always choke deep in the playoffs especially Tatum and Brown. They sh*t the bed a couple years ago against GSW when everyone thought they would win it all and I guarantee they'll choke again as always

Bucks failed a few times before winning it all. Everything can happen especially taking injuries into account, but Celtics are No1 team in the league for a reason. Beat Mavs easily, made GSW look stupid, no problems without KP against us - just a few games I watched recently.

[bwgood77]

They got hot from 3. We played pretty well most of the game. They are the best team in the NBA and the best team at home. If a team like Boston gets that hot from 3, it will be impossible to beat them. Definitely not a bad loss. Was anyone really expecting to win? I was impressed we hung with them for so long.

[sunskerr]

Yeah in tennis terms, it's "on Boston's racquet" i.e. winning or losing is just about Boston playing their game, not how well the opponent plays. They can still lose, nobody is arguing they can't lose, they'll have no bad days, or they'll 100% win, but it just comes down to if they show up and do the right things with their talent that they will win.

[garrick]

Boston is a smart team that traded for effective role players like Derrick White, Porzingis, Holliday, Horford etc. They didn’t blow their load to trade for “SuPeRsTaRs” and build an aging and injury prone big 3. They kept their young stars and build around it with dept and quality role players.

Matt Ishbia wouldn’t know jack**** about that.

If it's so easy why don't other teams do the same thing?

NBA trades/signings is all about right place and right time. I've said this before, sometimes you're in the right situation but the player you want isn't available. Sometimes the player is available but you're not in the right situation. The Warriors were in the right situation and the right player was available for them to get KD on a 73 win team coming off a Finals run.

Celtics are one of the most well run organisations since before even Tatum has been around. They consistently draft well, find and develop less talented players and make savvy trades. They are an institution that is the envy of most of the NBA. And the list of teams on par with them you could probably could on one hand. Off the top of my head, only Miami and more recently, OKC are of a similar tier.

We're not that, we arguably haven't been that in decades. Ishbia came in trying to make a change for the better after 2 decades of mismanagement, under-spending and pocketing NBA welfare. Maybe Ishbia's approach of going all out was not the right one but I won't ever question whether he's actually all in trying to help this team succeed or whether he sees it solely as a money making venture like Sarver did.

If it's so easy why don't other teams do the same thing?

The successful teams do? It’s about having the right vision and proper GM. Look at the Toronto Raptors. A team that was largely irrelevant till…they hired Masai Ujiri and he did something similar to what Ishbia did and trade for a star player in Kawhi while giving up a fan favorite…except Ujiri didn’t give up everything for that and still maintained capable role players to put together a championship season. Look at the Timberwolves who have been a laughing stock for as long as I can remember, they hire Tim Connelly and he makes smart big trades like getting Gobert but their team actually still has good role players around them too hence why their a top seed and trending in the right direction. You can do the same thing for OKC and go down the list.

You can say whatever you want about Sarver and he made bunch of stupid mistakes back in the day but the Suns had been trending in right direction since the bubble. You act as if Ishbia bought the worst team in the league or something and made a big trade to try to change that. No he bought a team that was already seen as a contender with cap flexibility and draft picks and trending in the right direction.

Sarver learned from his stupid mistakes hence why he made the ultimatum that either only the players or picks would be traded for KD, not both. And considering KD was disgruntled with the Nets, he could’ve easily told them he’s not going to play anymore if he isn’t traded and Nets would’ve been forced to trade him anyway and taken whatever we offered.

Imagine having those 1st rd picks and being able to make trades like the Lakers did last playoffs to make it to the WCFs or Mavericks did in acquiring guys like Washington and Gafford that have turned their season around. Gafford especially on an amazing contract and barely 24 or 25 years old.

To make meaningful changes in this league you need to have assets. And draft picks are the biggest asset for that. Look at the Denver Nuggets for example. They’re the reigning champions, and they basically have one “superstar” player and bunch of excellent role players around them. Ask any Denver fan or watch any Denver game and you’ll notice how big of a difference Aaron Gordon makes for them. And Nuggets acquired him using draft picks and expiring contracts.

This idea that you can put together a couple of very highly paid “star players” in their 30s with injury issues and form a big 3 and have bunch of crap around them and win is extremely outdated. Nets proved this couple years ago with their Deron Williams, kg, Pierce trade.

Investing a significant part of your cap space into 3 aging players and having very little cap space and trade assets remaining to put together good role players around them is just stupid and doesn’t lead to success.

Also with those draft picks you can do some of these impactful trades like Boston did to get Derrick White, or the Mavs with Gaffords.

Now we can't even trade any of the picks we still own due to the Stepien rule so we are going to have to really nail down the remaining picks which will be hard if we expect to be in the playoffs the next 4 years or so.

[Iceman36]

They got hot from 3. We played pretty well most of the game. They are the best team in the NBA and the best team at home. If a team like Boston gets that hot from 3, it will be impossible to beat them. Definitely not a bad loss. Was anyone really expecting to win? I was impressed we hung with them for so long.

Thank you! I recognised the game exactly the same.

[Fifii]

They got hot from 3. We played pretty well most of the game. They are the best team in the NBA and the best team at home. If a team like Boston gets that hot from 3, it will be impossible to beat them. Definitely not a bad loss. Was anyone really expecting to win? I was impressed we hung with them for so long.

Let me see. We have D Book who is better than Brown and KD who is in the same level such as Jayson and we got blow out. If you added fact that our third best player was available and they’re not, do you think still we played good match ? I know that their depth is better , but come on. In previous match ( without D Book ) we are very close and this ? Nurkic can’t dominate Al ? Seriously ?

[bwgood77]

They got hot from 3. We played pretty well most of the game. They are the best team in the NBA and the best team at home. If a team like Boston gets that hot from 3, it will be impossible to beat them. Definitely not a bad loss. Was anyone really expecting to win? I was impressed we hung with them for so long.

Let me see. We have D Book who is better than Brown and KD who is in the same level such as Jayson and we got blow out. If you added fact that our third best player was available and they’re not, do you think still we played good match ? I know that their depth is better , but come on. In previous match ( without D Book ) we are very close and this ? Nurkic can’t dominate Al ? Seriously ?

They are an elite team on pace for 65 wins. If Horford is going to come in and go 6/10 from 3 replacing KP, then they definitely were not missing him much.

Then they have Jrue Holiday, the best defender in the league as rated by players/coaches and Derrick White, another great defender.

If a team is on fire from 3, we need to be 2. We didn't do too bad overall, but O'Neale going 0-5 hurt and Book 1-6 (though understandable being guarded by Jrue).

The are 30-3 at home.

It sucks with such a rebounding advantage we still lost like we did, but it's still not a bad loss whatsoever.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Boston is a smart team that traded for effective role players like Derrick White, Porzingis, Holliday, Horford etc. They didn’t blow their load to trade for “SuPeRsTaRs” and build an aging and injury prone big 3. They kept their young stars and build around it with dept and quality role players.

Matt Ishbia wouldn’t know jack**** about that.

If it's so easy why don't other teams do the same thing?

NBA trades/signings is all about right place and right time. I've said this before, sometimes you're in the right situation but the player you want isn't available. Sometimes the player is available but you're not in the right situation. The Warriors were in the right situation and the right player was available for them to get KD on a 73 win team coming off a Finals run.

Celtics are one of the most well run organisations since before even Tatum has been around. They consistently draft well, find and develop less talented players and make savvy trades. They are an institution that is the envy of most of the NBA. And the list of teams on par with them you could probably could on one hand. Off the top of my head, only Miami and more recently, OKC are of a similar tier.

We're not that, we arguably haven't been that in decades. Ishbia came in trying to make a change for the better after 2 decades of mismanagement, under-spending and pocketing NBA welfare. Maybe Ishbia's approach of going all out was not the right one but I won't ever question whether he's actually all in trying to help this team succeed or whether he sees it solely as a money making venture like Sarver did.

Nothing that you've said here is wrong Fishi, You've made great and very astute points as always!

But I did want to reference the enlargened and bolded/colored comments as a point of emphasis as to what should be a basic foundational template for the vast majority of those teams )including us) that are envious of such a well run and top tier franchise. Basically the fact that they consistently "draft well' and develop less talented playersa (prospects) into impactful or productive contributors on "cost controlled" deals has consistently provided them with desirable trade assets with which to acquire and sustain quality depth supportively for their star core, allowing those "well drafted core prospects to flourish more freely while also being insulated by stronger and better quality talent and vet bench options. They understood the value in this strategy giving them long term financial flexibility and much greater trade assets to utilize on higher tier bench options.

We on the other hand began building correctly with our young core, BUT we really messed up by undervaluing and losing or giving away young talent due to Savers' parsimonious nature and our Gms' aversion to acquiring and actually developing young talent that would've (if properly developed and supported) would've given us greater salary balance throughout our roster as well as much greater flexibility in young, cost controlled young DESIRABLE trade assets (desirable due to low cost vs still perceivable upside) like what we're seeing with Bols' evolution. The core problem is that we've (as a franchise) first under Saver tried to continually cut corners and skip key steps while also having intentionally sought to avoid financially investing in legit high end supportive talent Just to sqeeze a profit out of our young team with minimal cost put forth, leaving us as a semi competitive perrenial playoff treadmilling team just good enough to advance a few rounds into the playoffs in order to pull in a bigger profit for a greedy, azzhat of an owner. BUT not legitimately deep enough or truly talented enough (due to unwillingness to spend on high tier talent) to be LEGITIMATE CONTENDERS!

Then when our old owner finally cashed in after squeezing all the profit he could out of our teams' success, We got the polar opposite of his cheap ignorant arse in Ishbia who although refreshing in his eagerness to actually win and outright willingness to spend any amount got overzealous and careless in order to make a "BIG SPLASHY MOVE" as new owners typically try to do in order to ingratiate themselves more quickly to their new fanbase! Of course Ishbia is a dream come true compared to who we had previously, BUT he went to the extreme inverse of our previous owner by cashing in all of our remaining chips as fast as he could without having an actual responsible contingency plan for the lack of depth that would clearly be a very risky/ costly move that would either succeed in monumental fashion or completely decimate our future with NO MIDDLE GROUND to recover from. History is always a true and reliable indicator, But over very overtly excitable owner was blinded by the excitement of these shiny big names without fully considering the implied risks involved with their extensive significantly concerning and well documented injury histories and durability issues. This becomes an unacceptible risk because of the attached salaries involved that would absolutely cripple us for multiple years on top of the very severely punitive penalties that will compound further each and every year.

We're riding the absolute razors' edge with zero room for any error, and basically need everything to break just right for us situationally for us to reach our goals and have this super team gimmick to actually succeed and not end up a colossal failure. And as excited as I might be for this teams' potential (as advertised) it's still far too rare and unreliable due to us being an incomplete team in many aspects for the odds to yield even a remotely favorable outcome aligned with our stated goals. You just can't win as an incomplete team with multiple unaddressed areas of weakness, lack of quality depth, and no assets, flexibilty for necessary critical roster upgrades while having to depend heavily on aging and oft injury prone stars having to play heavy minutes just to compete at a high level. So I understand both positions on this teams' trajectory outcomes. The bottom line is that the clear difference in the legit top tier championship contenders and our franchise is that they didn't perenially cheap out, skip steps in the development process, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, didn't carelessly sidestep or straight up ignore utilizing ALL AVAILABLE AVENUES to add assets, talent, depth pieces like we've continually done season after season trying to be more clever than everyone else. We just have to start building properly with all of our available resources to correct our weaknesses or at least insulate ourselves a bit better.

[dremill24]

They got hot from 3. We played pretty well most of the game. They are the best team in the NBA and the best team at home. If a team like Boston gets that hot from 3, it will be impossible to beat them. Definitely not a bad loss. Was anyone really expecting to win? I was impressed we hung with them for so long.

Let me see. We have D Book who is better than Brown and KD who is in the same level such as Jayson and we got blow out. If you added fact that our third best player was available and they’re not, do you think still we played good match ? I know that their depth is better , but come on. In previous match ( without D Book ) we are very close and this ? Nurkic can’t dominate Al ? Seriously ?

The two teams just arent even in the same stratosphere. It is what it is.